Battle Thread

So leftypol is changing tactics. I think it's about time we did too. They have three major talking points that seem to derail everything:


For counter measures I've come up with two ideas to keep this shit from infesting everything and I think the time has come to seriously consider getting an IRC or chatroom. yes Next and Master are still there, but something in real time

First idea is "spirit tracking"
I'll make some propaganda in a bit for it but the basic message will be "Ignore the derail and get back on track." A lot of threads have been falling off on a grand heap with the influx from cuckchan and reddit and they don't know how to deal with shills yet. Hopefully an infograph (which I'll cook up in a bit) will help them learn to assimilate.

Second is "facts don't care about your feelings"

They'll claim things are false or a conspiracy theory so educate yourselves. I know this seems simple but I've seen people stumble over their words a lot. Have proof for your claims and know their arguments/language.

Case study of their tactics:
8ch.net/v/res/11273048.html
8ch.net/v/res/11251466.htm
8ch.net/tv/res/547004.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1066650.html


To do nothing would be stupid.

Other urls found in this thread:

boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/99407813
ww
freech.net/fam/res/50190.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
client00.chat.mibbit.com/?server=irc.rizon.net&channel=#Muhgaskammer
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=A97A4CB4A88C7F019C62BE3F7D15921A
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=BF441F583F18BE776236C16B25020DD1
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=A70FAF84C889B9B3ED4B50870F2CF598
8ch.net/pol/res/8310191
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1071524.html
knowyourmeme.com/memes/kek
knowyourmeme.com/memes/topkek
wildboar.net/multilingual/easterneuropean/russian/literature/articles/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html
reformation.org/wall-st-bolshevik-ch11.html
modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=FinalWarning&C=7.3
iep.utm.edu/objectiv/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Cucks gonna cuck.

Numales gonna numale, cucks gonna cuck, kikes gonna kikes, nigs gonna nig but sitting there being a do nothing faggot is still being a faggot

I used to have a script to flood a board which i would have loved to use on leftycuck, if only…

We need to reclain the word "conspiracy". The truth is, people are conspiring against us all the time. "Conpiracy" does not eqaul "delusion".

Agreed. It's such a cop out argument.
"Oh you believe in that conspiracy theory?"
"Not a theory, but is a conspiracy"

Holy Jesus, my childhood friend engages in this faggotry.


He doesn't care about pursuing the truth, he cares about being (((right))). It breaks my heart.

Appreciate your autism on the subject just don't consider them a problem, personally. Their bait is weak and even if they weren't a bunch of retards, counterpoint - dialectic friction if you will - is good for keeping anons from slipping into philosophical lethargy and intellectual complacency. You know, the Jungian thing.

These are all as old as the hills and have never been effective. In fact, a lot of these tactics and certain specific phrases are very useful in that they instantly identify outsiders. The only somewhat effective tactic they have is christcuck vs larpagan D&C.

Any tactics shills use will either be rejected or ironically adopted as a meme. This is the way it has always been.

I saw the beginning of this late in Hillary's campaign. The term "conspiracy theory" has been programmed with such impact, it is time we start widely using it against the ridiculous claims of the MSM, SJWs etc. As for stuff like the Fed, ISIS/Mossad, ECHELON etc, we can frame that as "all that stuff was proved years ago".

tl;dr we should use "conspiracy theorist" as a slur against our enemies.

Throw that shit right back in their faces.

Fair enough, I'm more hoping to educate those who don't know how to deal with this

co-opt stirmer. Turn him into a genocidal maniac.

Your friend has his terminology all confused. A theory is something that cannot be authenticated, not a conspiracy. Even then there are many theories that have a hell of a lot of compelling evidence to back them up. Like the theories we build our understanding of science on.

Shaming against their own proposal? Doesn't this diminish the proposal for safe spaces in the first place?

This also provides evidence that they themselves are susceptible to shaming.

Exploit their inherent contradictions of which there are many.

Stirner is already not Holla Forums. It's just that these shitskins never bothered to read what he said. They don't even know how he made Marx eternally butthurt every time they met together.

This really. All of the tactics which have failed against us may well work against them. We have taken all the worst slurs every single one of our enemies have flung at us. They have never suffered the same treatment.

lel

There's more of it looking at a few threads that are trying to undermine Trump and even an attempt to infiltrate, subvert, using the dubs digits against us, which tells me these are next lvl faggots that may have come from cults, secret societies. Ones that will try to learn about kek and try to use it against us in anyway they can for the kikes to take advantage of at it's fullest

Proceed with Caution.

We should set a booby trap.

I like to reinforce the notion that post-structuralism has become a structure unto itself, and that clinging on to 19th century political theory is about as traditionalist as it gets.

You just respond with the reply: Leftism is a spook.

End of discussion.

This.

Or you could use socratic method with spook memes and make them squel while they admit being an immoral opportunists under "peer" pressure.

anyone have more Holla Forums screencaps?

I have a few.

On to your point OP, from the theads you linked it seems like they're doing a really shitty job of it. I mean they've tried this before, and it always backfires. They even tried it on r/The_Donald and all that happened was it redpilled many people on race. They manage to fuck up every op they try, it's gold.
Holla Forums got a big boost in posters when the election came to a close, as all the people who formally shilled here for money, now use it as their base of operations in a vengeful crusade. They will fare no better than they always have, as they continue to galvanize the right with their actions.

...

Delete this shit, they're gonna think we're scared of them or something.

Man is not afraid of the cockroach, but he understands the need to root them out and deal with them before they multiply.

Let them believe that. They've never not believed that. They see the world through a lens different to real men, they see the kind of world in which Bernie had a chance, and real communism has never been tried.

2 l8 :^)

...

lmao

...

Guys… Are the bourgeois a spook? Is the class system a spook? Was Marx a spook? Are spooks a spook? Guys, I'm super spooked right now.

What did he meme by this?

...

Holy shit, what a bad meme…

That's the whole point of 'systems'. To get people to chase ghosts in their coconut.

Yes.
Yes.
No.
Funnily enough yes.

Holla Forums changes the definition of their buzzwords every few days to avoid ever having to hold down and defend a concrete position like ideological nomads, but the generally accepted idea there is that spooks are anything that is man-made or "artificial" and not physical. All ideas are spooks, even spooks themselves. They claim that race is a spook because they are idiots, and believe race is arbitrary and that black people are black due to some cosmically non-physical reason or something. Class, even as much as they love to harp on about it, is a spook.

Basically, a spook is meaningless. They use the term as most leftists use their terms: To sound smart, without having to make a point you might need to defend later. Civilization is a spook, dreams are spooks, emotions are spooks and relationships are spooks. It is a meaningless pejorative they throw out.

everything is a spook: race, gender, religion.
except class warfare and gibs - those aren't spooks.
it's kind of retarded really, because it's so inconsistent. race is idpol which is wrongthink, but class is also idpol and is rightthink. I dunno man they're basically infantalized menchildren, we may be over analyzing this.

See image. The left is now fighting it's own contruct i.e. Chasing ghosts.

And they wonder why kek loves us.

No marxist rejects materialism.
Class is defined by your social relationship to the means of production, which are pretty concrete obects tbh
Again historical materialism is the intellectual foundation for all of this
It's a meme. 90% of the time they're not being serious


Class is an objective thing. "Identity politics" are those of the subjective, i.e. precisely those notions of "identity" which do not trace to your actions, deeds, accomplishments, material role in society, etc.
"Class" does not mean social attitudes, how much you make, what accent you have, or whether you sip champagne in limousines with Hillary's goons.

Holla Forums would be able to identify spooks if they infiltrated them, they'd think they are double agents on their side, radicalizing the youth to "bring down porky". So much for a bunch of faggots with a play dough ideology who constantly screams about muh spooks.

Who cares about leftypol? They never get anything done, their numbers are pathetic and half of their posts are us in disguise ready to laugh at them.

Holla Forums, here's how to defeat Holla Forums
use Stirner against them
Stirner isn't a fucking leftist, he doesn't care about equality or socialism
everything Holla Forums cares about are "spooks"
the greatest trick Holla Forums pulled was making you averse to Stirner and not realise the potential of his philosophy

EXPOCT US

throwing some thoughts around.
class is a social construct.
race is a biological, objective reality.
by that reasoning, class is a spook designed to undermine racial solidarity by creating discord within a people.
fact is, every individual is a product of their past, and their biology is the sum total of their ancestral past, which their experiences add to. so, their place in society, their actions, deeds and accomplishments are dictated by race; by IQ, by temperament, by association with members of the same race, etc.
race supercedes class. this is why the left get extremely butthurt by things like the irish immigrants to early america siding with other whites in preference to the blacks, who were also an oppressed group in their worldview. class agitation doesn't unite different races, but different classes can unite by race. it's why ethnonationalism is so terrifying to them, it's the antidote.

in the case of communism it's a hostile tribe, the jews, agitating the working class of a people to overthrow their leaders and install that hostile tribe as the new leaders. see your post's pic for the % of jewish influence in bolshevik russia as an example.

The OP picture looks like they're talking about 4chan

Some equivocal fulcra here. If by "race" you mean the specific genetic basis of human biodiversity. then yes, that is obviously physical. But identifying/assigning the specific dividing lines between different racial categories is a social endeavor (look at all the Are X White? posts) no matter how well the lines match up with genetic difference, geographic divergence, and the rest of the physical facts and evidence.
So too is *calling* it "class" a social decision, and choosing a definition for what makes you "bourgeoisie" or not, but these labels describe real physical processes. The transformation of labor into wealth is a matter of physical reality and can be studied similarly to race.

Holla Forums is like niggers in the US.
They keep pushing the larger and dominant group in the same region, and will continue to do so until the larger group lashes back, which will result in their own annihilation.

I wouldn't doubt it. Most of the population on Holla Forums uses 4chan more often, given that 2/3 of the board migrated there straight from 4chan Holla Forums.

Just let them act like the retards they are.
Most users of the other boards are already on Holla Forums or leftyfags with the exception of Holla Forums, they hate both of us.
Just call them out when they try to bait a politics discussion.

Funny how there are a number of threads currently up where it's being suggested to "let's get a chatroom to organize this."

Not really, at least a third of Holla Forums are Holla Forums users as well given the history of the two boards.
They just recognize that derailing threads into political discussion on a non-political board is bad form.

Might as well make a thread titled 'Holla Forums is going to raid you'

On leftypol.

It's easy to ignore shills and give zero fucks about anything.

SHILLING ONLY WORKS ON YOU IF YOU LET IT

reducing it to a binary of is x white: yes/no is not accurate. race is a matter of degree of genetic similarity, not for example a territory of clones bordering a territory of different clones. this is a tired meme. see pic as example.
peoples form out of race/ethnicities with close genetic similarities, classes form within these peoples as different individuals with different talents express themselves socially.
But there is nothing stopping a white man from building a business empire one day in an office tower and the other going and getting his hands dirty in the fields the other… except for a social construct.
On the other hand, the fact of his biological reality of race forever prevents him from being a nigger. You can't change biological objectivity, but you can change social class, suggesting it's more malleable, flexible, less concretely real construct of society; a social construct.

This.
Unless Holla Forums starts full-on flooding Holla Forums then there is no reason for retaliation.
Just let the retards feel as if they actually achieved something.

If you want to shill and derail /leftycuck/, pose as a Stalinist and post Stalinist propaganda. It will derail the thread in no time. I used to do it, but I actually was a Marxist-Leninist at the time.

Here I'll dump some memes/propaganda you can use the derail most Holla Forums threads

...

The thing is, if the "literature" they keep telling me to read is truly what they adhere to, they are centuries behind human civilization.

They have subsistence ideas. Their ideals are built for subsistence living, and fail when brought into anything beyond that.

my point exactly

Objectively wrong. "except for his bills and expenses" is more like it.

I could theoretically act like the biggest nigger in the world, my genes don't absolutely restrain me from that if I chose otherwise. genes do indeed *influence* actions to some degree though

Fucking lol underrated

Holla Forums should be asking what did they mean by this.

...

>>>Holla Forums1069549
boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/99407813

TOPKEK

Of course those ideas are what they they adhere to. There is no doubt.
If you go ask on Holla Forums if any of them have read right-wing literature before, they will either say that it doesn't exist in a le ironic matter as a shielding tactic or they will admit that they haven't/only have read 1-2 books.
It's especially funny considering that their motto is basically "Read [insert name here]".

Jesus fuck. I went through this phase early in high school.

>>>Holla Forums1069520
T O P K E K
O
P
K
E
K

*they

That's where I hope most of them still are.

Leftists truly are pathetic.

I did too. I was a token lefty in High School, and I thought I was the smartest motherfucker around. I never really KNEW anything: But I was able to reiterate what I had heard smarter people say, and I simply scoffed and ignored when challenged on my shit. My own father tried to explain to me that leisure products aren't frequent in communist society, and I remember just ignoring it. It went in one ear, out the other. I was a fucking moron.

The thing that turned me around was Holla Forums. I know that's thrown around a lot, but I mean it. I originally came to 4chan Holla Forums in a gun control thread. I tried to compromise (like the beta faggot I was) and said that I think gun should be legal, but that it was super fucked up to sell guns in Walmart.
Somebody asked me why.
I said that it was too accessible.
They asked me why it was bad to be accessible if gun ownership is a good thing.
I said I "just find it fucked up".
I got chewed the fuck out after that. I don't know if the guy is on Holla Forums or if he still even uses imageboards, but the exact words that stick in my mind were "TAKE YOUR FEELINGS BASED LEGISLATURE AND FUCK OFF". It was the first time I'd really been confronted by somebody who wouldn't back down, and I had nobody to back me up. I'd jumped headfirst into the arena of ideas and I was losing badly.

I won't lie here. It tore me up. I couldn't forget about that moment, it was possible the most humiliated I ever truly felt, and I mean personally humiliated. On the inside. So I came back. And I lurked. Some small stuff began to make a lot of sense, which eventually led to me understanding the bigger concepts. I started off disgusted by the racism, but as the stats were posted I eventually couldn't argue against it. I was beaten down, and molded into a better man by sheer brute force of ideas. And here I am today, a raging Nazi memelord who has actually taken time for self-improvement, and who now takes care of his body rather than existing as a fat blob of a husk of a man.

Bit of a blogpost, but this is how you convert them. Beat them down, hold no mercy, and NEVER be polite.

model citizen right here

Holla Forums is now flooding the halfchan thread I mentioned at

Should we reinforce them?

wew

No, they must learn to repel the commies themselves. Strength through struggle.

...

Pretty much, yeah.

your point is that race is a biological reality which governs how people associate, yes we agree. biology is a science of classification and human beings like all animals can be classified into species, subspecies, ethnicity, race or whichever word you prefer.
this is different from a social construct of class because a biology refers to something you are, while an economic position refers to what you do. one can be changed, the other can't.
yeah race is a social construct but a white man who can't ever grow a jew nose or nigger kink hair can't decide one day to abandon the office job and go work in a field.
i think that if you tried hard enough, you could develop prognathism, an IQ of 85 and very dark skin. but it may be that physical reality presents this.

Hold on, why do we even care about what Holla Forums says or does? They are just a containment board, this is like caring about the political opinions of Holla Forums or /furry/
And what's more
THEY LOST THE ELECTION

...

jesus christ i remember that stuttering nigger warsie. what a joke.
kek

I wouldn't say that all of Holla Forums lost.
A small minority were pro-Trump.
Also even if he cucked him afterwards, Bernie Sanders was cheated out of the election, so it isn't really a fair loss.

Something isn't wrong just because it's fallacious.

Being complacent is not a good thing to be. The moment you stop debating and become complacent, your edge wanes. This is why they lost the election, they stopped debating and just labelled everyone who was against them as idiots, bigots, etc.

Sanders worked for Clinton you dumbfuck redditor piece of shit.

Source?

Lurk more Holla Forums, you are shit at pretending to be from here

I think the key here is that it was YOU yourself who seeked out more information, it was not something forced onto you like in schools and colleges. You felt humiliated and wronged, but could not argue against certain facts, and this led you to learn more on why this happened.

So I give you my respect on that at least.

I thought Bernie Sanders only worked for Clinton after he failed to become the party candidate, especially considering the fact that he refused to drop out.
If you can prove that he was always a plant, drop a source.
I've been here since the first major exodus.

The argument is necessarily wrong
The conclusion is not necessarily false
gb2 logic 101

i think he's prob referring to the big fancy house(s) bernie got, and that he was a controlled opposition "rival" to hillary who had already been decided well in advance as the nominee. ww w.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/bernie-sanders-summer-house
can't say more than that. the idea was probably to rope in some of the lefty idealists and then transfer their votes to hillary, but it didn't work out because they were more emotionally invested in gibs than the dems anticipated and reacted badly to having their candidate cucked.

They do on /his/ but defintely not on /r9k/ or /a/, most of the people who browse there are redpilled as fuck.

As far as I know, board owner of /a/ is a commie and tends to sperg out over pro-Holla Forums discussions.
But I got that info second hand so it might aswell be completely wrong

No. No it most certainly isn't. You've provided no argument to be considered in any case, so my anecdote is the most proof you've seen, and it is a proof nonetheless. Slopes can be slippery, black and whites exist, and grounds can be middled. You're making no argument, and just responding with "Muh falusee!".

From what I've seen they are perfectly fine with anons saying fuck niggers and jews, but issues seem to arise when you strictly make a thread about how redpilled anime is or some shit. Then again I can't realy explain it well.

Reminder that Holla Forums are trying to drive a wedge between us and /christian/. I imagine they're behind some of the anti-Christian shilling.

Schools don't teach kids how to learn anymore, which is a major problem we need to fix.

the snk thread had some discussions on the parallels between nazis and jews in the mangas backstory. /a/ tends to be apolitical really.

I knew about the summer home, but I assumed that was him shuffling campaign donations under the table.
I found the WikiLeaks email that is probably being referred to, so never mind then. News to me, I guess most of Holla Forums did lose.

/r9k/ is full Holla Forums, /his/ is lean Holla Forums and /a/ is apolitical (although with underlying Holla Forums tendencies).
Holla Forums wouldn't have many friends on 4chan, maybe /lit/, /mu/ and /lgbt/ at most.

yes, there is such a thing as precedent in some cases. the problem is that pointing it out where it does not exist is not valid reasoning.
yes, sometimes there are only two possible positions. the problem is that reducing an issue to two possible positions when there are in fact more is not valid reasoning
etc.
This is stickied on halfchan Holla Forums for fucks sake. I shouldn't have to teach you how argument works.
"i was left and stupid" does not imply "everyone who is left is stupid." if anything the fact you couldn't reason or self-criticise for shit as a kid until people hurt your feelings is not a ringing endorsement of where you are now
Though it may very well be true that everyone who is left is stupid

You would know, go back there.

But everyone who is left IS stupid.

This fall in my country, there is a huge upheaval in school curriculums. There can be a whole week of not having a single regular class (eg. sit on your desk, listen to teacher, write down what they tell you) but "exploring" life or some shit, having cushion seats and sitting on the floor instead of a desk, not having your own classrooms, everyone can just come and go how they please, every student gets a tablet that most of their studies use instead of writing or cursive.

It's very crazy, there's already reports of classes where nothing has been learned at all during these first four months, and it's in a state of anarchy.

So can someone explain why the holodomor did or didn't happen, I know I'm being lazy but I don't really know where to start looking into it

Mind if I ask which one it is? Sounds like a horrible system you describe.

This trend is coming in my country too. I studies German in high school, and my German teacher taught me more about life than any other teacher. Among the chief things he taught me is that you don't learn by typing, but you learn and remember what you learn tremendously when you write things down. I personally cannot write cursive, and my handwriting is atrocious: This is because I was caught between two changing curriculums. I was taught to write normally for the first two years of schooling, got taught cursive for 3 years, then cursive was thrown out and we went back to normal writing. I'm working on better handwriting now, though old habits die hard.

Said the admitted idiot

People can see your other posts lad. We have IDs. You're pretty obviously baiting though.

Spurdoland

Holla Forums has no meme magic affinity. At least, normalfags don't even try.

LITERALLY WHO THE FUCK CARES
Stop inviting them here, you idiots, they're not even funny when they shit post and larp, all they do is shit up the catalog like this thread, you nigger.

yeah dude I know crazy how that works huh

Pretty much this.

Hoxha was a dirty shiptar.

samefag from leftypol detected, fuck off and kill yourself.

The truth path is killing yourself Holla Forums

Seriously? Is death not a put-off for them?
Because we've seen how bad cultural marxism ends up.
It's literally subversion/slavery.

It's like they're trying to use stirner in their own mental gymnastics to justify cultural marxism.
Stirner would disagree with what they are doing. And they don't see it.

ARE SPOOKS A SPOOK?

AM I NOTHING BUT A SPOOK?

Holla Forums does not support what you call "cultural marxism."
marx didn't support what you call "cultural marxism"
please lurk more

Cultural marxism is a result of marxist ideologies.
Marx didn't support it, he inadvertently created it.

Kill yourself with this worthless waste of time. Those retards in that containment board aren't worth a moment of your time.

Fucking retarded 4cuck newfags, get out.

Hello there, Rabbi!

I'd say enlighten me, but you can't

Breathing is also a spook

It's incompatible with historical materialism, dude. "Patriarchy" theory, intersectionality, etc. connect absolutely nothing to material conditions. It's pure and simple magical thinking. People are derided for not assuming that any inequality anywhere is the result of inequity, except for where white men fall behind, and there is never any plausible, concrete mechanism given for where this inequity is and how it functions. Moreover, they have an unbridled contempt for any idea of a rationally explainable world.

Marxism is a positivist theory.

I mean just stick your head in over there and ask. Or lurk. Or look it up, read a book, etc.

There are a lot of people on there who don't really see the issue with islam even if they know about the millions of people that got slaughtered during the Arab conquests.

Also, most of the people on here don't really care that much about Holla Forums, it's those commie faggots who are always talking about us so why shouldn't we have a thread about them once in a while?

Or you could just look at the sticky, and find

While there are a few liberals here, the majority of posters on Holla Forums are radical left. They may still be socially liberal, but their economic stances are decidedly not liberal, and likely heavily opposed to the liberal order. As an extension of this, posters here are opposed to "SJWs," because they see them as economically liberal, and socially oppressive. Stances on Obama here range from indifferent, to angry– and the only poster here who shills for Democrats still does so under the premise that they're a lesser evil.
As for Israel, leftism is anti-Zionist. It is not anti-Jew. Unlike Holla Forums, Holla Forums fully supports Palestinians, and doesn't think they're "mudslimes."
Pretending to be an SJW or Zionist will very likely get you banned.

Either that or go

Delusional leftist fucks fell for the goon meme.

You know, I've always wondered why the idea of a slippery slope suddenly lent itself to a fallacy. It's often claimed to be fallacious, but how can one know it is fallacious? It's a concept that relies on time, so to say "No, legalization of gay marriage will not lead to pedo-sympathizing" or something like that is more of an opinion rather than a fallacy call out, right?

Perhaps in hindsight the fallacy could be applied, but even then it's more of a "They just plain were wrong" sort of thing rather than an application of a fallacy. Plus, a lot of instances of the slippery slope idea end up being fairly true.

OC DONUT STEAL

I don't know if this relevant to what is going on, but may as well share it.

This discussion was prompted by the recent meltdown the BO of /r9k/ had and the transition to /v9k/

freech.net/fam/res/50190.html

new tor

Well the stupid people sure thought so :^)
Hint: this is what destroys your ideology - stupid people in natsoc are still good, if not better because they're efficient and not empathizing with captives and whatnot.

People aren't equal. You need to bring the weak "up" by standing at the front and leading.
Equity is a destructive ideology. It doesn't work.

You can give people steps and programs to "climb", but putting them at the "top" only pulls the others to the bottom.

It's created by scarcity and people's different individual ability to mobilize (their personality differences).
Natsoc does not lie about the differences - it does the best thing we can do to mobilize people. That is set a standard, a motivational target, an established working method to get what they achieve.

I agree with that. The best method we have is through experimentation and brainstorming. Through estimation using measures that are itself estimated, etc. Chaos at work.

That's why natsoc itself needs re-invigoration.
I need to properly look into the productive theory more though.

You need the gendo to tell shinji to get in the god damn eva
You can't do it for him.

That guy looks like an Alternate Universe Beta Sam Hyde

And I already do. :^)

That's not actually that wrong, there's very little political discussion /a/, but when it does come up Holla Forums-leaning posters get hotpocketed by the meidos while left-leaners get a pass

They still exist?

"not an argument": the meme.


shqiptar*

Natsoc is more of a religion to me.
There is something in seeing the world for what it really is, preserving culture and history, discovering answers to what really is that drives me the most.

The alternative is apathy. That's why stirner is wrong.
Apathy leads to social decay and eventually.. death.
Learn to do what's best for your people. Learn to love your people and your culture, then your life becomes heaven. You feel invigorated to go forth.

Why do you think Trump won the election user?

Yes they do. Their main environment is on IRC so don't think because it looks like a dead board, it's actually dead.

So what? Who uses other boards here? I sure don't, especiallly since after I swore off porn. And last time I was on Holla Forums they got called out.
Kek. They'd ban me anyway since I'm not a virgin anymore.

Meh, we've survived IRC Cabal faggots before.

If Jews wanted to work as a team we would never had WWII in the first place.
Capitalism was typical jewry.
USSR was also headed by a corrupt team of jewish individuals.

Jewish people themselves have some form of hunger of power that makes them a problem. They need to learn to behave and work as a team.

They're like that shitty player who thinks they're a professional player, so they hog the ball and lose the game.

Reminds me of (((Saul Alinsky's))) book where he implies his tactics will always be effective no matter what, despite him only ever using them on the weak and the cucked. These tactics don't work on people who don't give a fuck, and they're too arrogant to ever realize this. Besides, Trump and Mike "Get The Gas If You Like Man Ass" Pence are already on their way to the white house. Holla Forums isn't going to do shit except cry and scream. They lost the meme war.

And that issue is a sad occurrence of natural selection.

...

Precedent is a very real thing in many cases, especially the law.
It's not correct to say that gay marriage *necessarily* (i.e. certainly) will lead to people marying their dogs, since we can conceivably stop at any point we want, but if you're a dogfucker it will get you closer rather than further.

The key is looking at
critically. How easy is it to stop, how strong is the precedent really, etc. These are all valid questions. The "slippery slope" fallacy is a specific way of ignoring these questions or assuming their answers (i.e. "we can't possibly stop" without giving an argument.) You can probably see that the precedent for pedos is stronger than that for dogfuckers and so on.


I was just pointing out the ways that SJWism is incompatible with marxist theory, not challenging yours. But the fact that your theory gives testable answers on these points means it's closer to marx than marx is to the SJWs


I don't really think jewishness gives people shared objectives/interests that override their economic self-interests

So much this. Marx had the problem of being wealthy in the beginning.
He was out of touch with the real working class and middle class.
They're thick, but lovable, hard working individuals.

That's why we need africans to think about themselves and what they need to do in Africa.
Before they destroy themselves.

I'm saying your right, but at the same time the lack of direction leaves people's goal to be nothing but "enforce equity". Equity is incompatible with people. Thus it creates this form of ideology by becoming the "target". People are inquisitive just like fish and need targets or goals. We are always seeking something, when we don't - we self-destruct.

If USSR had computers and social media - it would be worse than the current west. China survives through censorship. Fuck censorship frankly. All our current issues is because of censorship.

"shared objectives" is actually their naturally selected pattern of survival. It's instinct.
I'd nearly pity them. If it weren't for the atrocities they commit.

They need to break their shackles or perish.
I don't think that's possible.
The alternative is keep to themselves.
But like fish they are inquisitive, only a matter of time until they subvert again.

Really they're not, though. It's the same no-platform ideology they've been using for the last however many years. Only, the whole no-platform thing doesn't work because it's essentially ignoring a problem and hoping it goes away.


The only criteria that needs to be met in order to have an actual conspiracy is for two or more people discussing a way to further their own interest(s)/cause(s). You and I having this discussion right now constitutes a conspiracy, by virtue of the fact that we are discussing a way to further our interest(s)/cause(s); we are conspiring.

The idea that rich people, or that people with political power and agendas would not get together to discuss how to forward their plans or how to work together for mutual benefit is just as outlandish as the wildest "conspiracy theories" ever floated.


It's just as telling that they see "safe spaces" as something worth mockery as anyone else does. Why, then, do they encourage safe spaces?


That tactic got them Trump in the White House and their Frumpy, Grumpy Grandma shitting herself in the shadows. If shaming was any kind of key to their victory, they would have taken over decades ago. The fact that there still exists an alternative to their doctrines illustrates why their ideology holds no water - the only thing they have to offer boils down to, "Do what we say or we will call you mean names."

They got nothing. They're about to become a footnote in the history of the Great White Empire.

It did happen the comies don't want you to know about it because it shows the ussr in a bad light

Everything is a social construct, everything is a spook and we have to point it all out!

I'm starting to think "spooks" are there so the science is ignored. So the memetics is ignored. So the natural selection of things is ignored.

Can only be Jews that did that.
Which explains why Stirner only has 2 portraits.

0/10 would not operate with

why don't we combat their stirner posting with nietzsche posting?

okay you stupid niggers, i found a very easy way to counter them. whenever they make up shitty memes or use goon baby language to name their "demons" tell them to stop using baby language and grow up.

Like if they say "drumf" or "storm lords" just insult them like you would with a child.

A father/mother like tone will get under their skin and fuck them up real hard.

Strumbannfuhrer is an insult ?

Shut up poopy head

:(

...

meant to type "stormturd"

I had a fun time once claiming that sexual desire and lust, are really just spooks, so anyone not being celibate is following the spook of lust.

being a human being is a spook

That was spooky user.
Don't do that.

Consciousness and maths are also a spook. We don't think, it's all just electric impulses, working like a domino.

That's not really the goal. It's more like "establish worker control of the means of production so the product of labor is not stolen in the form of surplus value"
Things like progressive taxation, the welfare state, and "redistribution of wealth" are how the bourgeoisie secure the system against dissent (bread and circuses) and stabilize it against its own inherent contradictions (upward wealth flow.) Major policy differences reflect different tactical decisions - the bourgeoisie are split on how much they are willing to pay for a certain level of stability and security, among other things.
Much better to simply allow people the product of their own labor. Rather than expand these measures, make them unnecessary by fixing their root causes.


A lot of times self-interest conflicts with instinct, and your success depends on your ability to put that self-interest above your instincts and transcend your genetic predispositions (depression and anxiety being common examples.) I'm just a little skeptical of the idea no jew can get a better deal by betraying his ethnocentric instincts, or that their instincts are all insurmountable. But I'll admit I haven't gone too deep into this sort of thing.

Danger and self-preservation are spooks.

is reading anything but stirner considered a spook?

8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html
8ch.net/leftypol/res/1070206.html

faggot

From the 4cuck thread

its a thread, but do consider killing yourself.

They just copy the shit we say, with no understanding as to why we say it.

Reported for newfaggotry.

threads are posts too you stupid newfag, kill yourself

HAHAHAHAAHAH
THIS IS WHAT THESE STUPID DELUSIONAL CUNTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE

and why should I fucking care? its part of my workflow to simply paste the link instead of meme arrowing, i'm not going to pander to your linux-ish method of board linking, you fucking imbecile, I work, I don't have time for being a worthless gentoo user.

Let's put homer simpson in charge of 12 productive factories then :^)
And Blackmail, social connections, race and ability to lie are how the elites take control of the communist system.
Natsoc has a simple check and balance - race and ability to lead at the front. Plus when people are motivated to control "usurpers" through pride for race and country, there is less corruption.
Communism reverted to a caste system to be frank. There was no motivational check and balance. No "bait" to get people to knuckle down on corruption. Instead - there was bait to corrupt.
I disagree, better to motivate them to produce their own product for the strength of the nation. Otherwise you'll fail to fulfill quotas properly without the necessary motivation.

Not when there are goals to strive for. Then they work as a team.
The key is to have a strong goal and a strong motivational stimulus to help your country.

Communism failed because it turned into apathy.
The apathetic in natsoc are dragged into production by their peers.
Otherwise they perish for their selfish sloth :^)

That's not fixing. That's destroying the measures.
Fixing is making the system stronger. I think the internet is useful for this.

Only if you do not do what is necessary for country. If you do, then you're hindering others with crime.
If your instinct does not match - leave the country.
You'll come crawling back when you're in impoverished misery.

Wow you really think they'd do this on their own? Look at the current west. They can't motivate themselves until there is an identity to get behind with a common goal

They're aliens user. They are just incompatible.
Unless they lose the "jew" label and join the team properly. There will be issues if they simply hide though.

Their ethnic instincts are their downfall. They weren't like this in the beginning, something changed.
Something that made them feel chosen to lead other ethnicity.

White people don't feel the need for that. We might set a standard or a structure - but ultimately it is up to non-whites to sort their systems out. White's only tried to lead when Jews indebted them. They wanted the resources and spices.

Alternatively, we can truce until REAL aliens arrive. That's where the jew problem comes in again - I bet they'd do something retarded and try to join them while actively destroying the rest of humanity. Or actively subvert the other nations for resources to give as tribute, while destroying the other nations.
Wonder why they like to keep necklace pouches of gold?

Let me guess, your "work" involves brooms and burger spatulas?

Holy shit man, how will your newfag ass survive on 8ch? Your ego is weaker than paper.
Speaking of paper, put butt cream on some toilet paper and apply where useful to soothe the butthurt.

Seeing is a spook.
Because your eyes are a spook.

i'm not the same faggot but it's ironic as fuck that you would call someone a retard while being a schizophrenic failure.

I'm currently shitting on the poor man being so triggered that he turned to thrashing and throwing out lunatic insults about Linux and CTR.

W-well, i'll just leave you two to it, I was just pointing something out.

Mention how Striner is part of the JUSTice league

Yet look how faithful they are to their culture. Look how hard he strives.

Rest my case.

Also Joseph Conrad's "heart of darkness" epitomizes Stirner's vision perfectly :^)

The problem with this line of criticism is that there are no egoist values, they would just retort that your entire worldview is based on materialist spooks.

I'm not worried about it, if presidential candidates and the greater part of the media can't kill us I doubt fucking Holla Forums can, they can barely keep their own threads on track. Laughable.

as an old psyopsfag, I would like "discuss" some things in regards to Holla Forums, if you're willing to listen, i'll leave the redirection to the IRC Below, I will only talk via PM, just a side note, I'm familiar with some generic persuasion skills, it matters for one thing but I need numbers for them to work, i'll glarify more when you get to here, I don't need an influx of people, one is enough:

client00.chat.mibbit.com/?server=irc.rizon.net&channel=#Muhgaskammer

or

irc.rizon.net #muhgaskammer

fixin
*clarify*

They fuck with half Holla Forums all the time because they can't beat us.

and would you consider an action towards leftypol?

i'm honestly curious.

Post this pic.

I remember on 4chon /new/ Stirner was king.

No wonder leftytwinks hail him as their leader, that's next-level pathetic.

The teenager inside me is with you.

I don't really care about them. Sometimes I present flaws in the labor theory of value and watch them spreg out.

Yeah they are fucking infesting other boards like Holla Forums. Pls help Holla Forums. We left fucking cuckchan to get away from these faggots.

They have cuckchan, why do they fucking come here?

there is one particular cancer that you can drop on their board and hopefully it would spread tremendously fast and effectively getting their own to use it against themselves to suppress information, they would become schizophrenic but I need to know if it would backfire, See:

Gulagposting

Because leftist feel the need to constantly be revolutionary faggots, they are not victors, they are hijackers.

client00.chat.mibbit.com/?server=irc.rizon.net&channel=#Muhgaskammer

...

The killed /r9k/. RIP in peace, robofriends.

it's an IRC browser, lookup mibbit, either way you don't have to click it my man, I just wanted to pass a strategy without blatantly exposing it to the thread, i'd be like hillary clinton, telling the enemy where i'm going to attack while Isis fucking mobilizes and leaves the area before the attack even happens, ya gotta be smart, like trump.

Look at /r9k/ now. sheeitt

Has it occurred to you that maybe you shouldn't have an opinion (or a vote)?

The class difference is actually a big issue.
Because the youth are struggling to find work.

That's the biggest issue. Finding work. It needs more active government intervention.
Straya does "work for the dole" here now. It's a good way to find initial experience. Then they can move to proper jobs and take the knowledge they learn.

Preferably, I'd want government control of a lot more of the corporations. But enough room to breathe.
It needs more focus now that we're running thin on resources and creating structural issues that make work harder to find.
An easy way to kick-start that is with a major goal. Trump's space idea is simple and effective. Furthermore the FBI's interaction with anons might be helpful in getting them into this workforce, though for initially more menial tasks. Preferably, hermetic philosophy might be useful. It's abstract enough to not be batshit insane cult-wise. It's almost science like.
It's helpful at looking for inspiration - another thing we need.

...

..what?

user, I - I can't say it here, ITS TOO CONFIDENTIAL.

If you followed the dumbass board drama at all, it died because the BO got butthurt about "Holla Forums spammers" and banned all political talk. The reaction was overwhelmingly negative, so he went back on it, then nuked the board.

#rekt

well yeah sure, thats just an analogy though.

No. These retards just think that /a/ is on their side because people there try to keep the posting apolitical unless it's relevant. /a/ is definitely not on their side.

Thread related: >>>/a/571544

here is a hint that you might be familiar with redditspacing

ohh…
Nah I'd rather just start bait threads and then switch into full autism mode like

...

Because it makes them think.

This.
I've switched to real life work.

No not going around with stupid signs.
Subverting the subversion :^)

/a/ is /a/

Leave it the fuck alone.

I see, I only shared this because I know short and small words tend to stick like hot glue, it would spread so quick your head would spin, the only thing I have to find out is in what context would I want said word to fit into, I would love to take suggestions.

...

It's a spook if it's not the commie manifesto.

THE LEAF, BEHIND EVERY POST

the last propaganda pic "holodohoax" gives numbers that are complete bullshit
even kikepedia says in "demographics of russia" that the population in 1950 was in the 100Millions range, instead of the 175 claimer
gomminist educashun

The Holodomor happened (and is quite significantly downplayed) but it wasn't that much about "communism vs capitalism causing crop failures". Firstly one needs to be aware that the early Soviet government was overwhelmingly Jewish, and was using the marxist/communist ideology in order to cement their power. Ukrainians weren't very big fans of the USSR for a number of reasons, and because Ukrainians had been a minority group under Tzarist Russia, they had developed a nationalism of their own, and so the Ukrainian portion of the USSR was far more prone to fighting back against Soviet power. Hence, the Jews in charge of the USSR decided to break the Ukrainians via the holodomor. Two Jews named Geinrich Yagoda and Lazar Kaganovich directly oversaw it, with the Jewish NKVD as their enforcers. Afterwards, Russian peasants were resettled in the area to break the back of Ukrainian nationalism. This also plays a large role in the current situation in Ukraine, because the Holodomor was primarily in Eastern Ukraine - the part which now is strongly pro-Russian.

The goal was to destroy Ukrainian nationalism, since it both threatened the USSR and threatened to awaken nationalisms in other parts of the USSR, and to murder off millions of white Christian goyim, especially among the more independent peasantry. Forced Communalism was sort of a prototypical Agenda 21.

Communism vs Capitalism (two broadly speaking Jewish ideologies) is, to borrow from the leftist faggots, a "spook". The real battle is and has always been between Jews and the Goyim. Hence why the US worked together with the USSR to defeat Fascism. I'm guessing from your question that you're rather new here - welcome aboard. Two books you might find helpful in understanding the situation are Hitler's Revolution by Richard Tedor and Culture of Critique by Kevin Macdonald. I believe David Duke has a book about the Holodomor as well, but I have never read it myself. There are also parts of Solzhenitsyn's 200 years together available online in English.

Here are the books for your convenience:
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=A97A4CB4A88C7F019C62BE3F7D15921A
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=BF441F583F18BE776236C16B25020DD1
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=A70FAF84C889B9B3ED4B50870F2CF598

lol Stirner

Blitzkrieg is my form.
Get them in a corner. Then ram them with logic.

I love being on the right side where things actually are easy to explain without needing group-think. :^)
I don't like indoctrination. I like asking a question, retorting accurately and using cutting creative and fluid rhetoric.

Can't do that when you've got nothing but marxist buzzwords.
When I'm stumped, I concede, then apply that thinking here.
Protip: still has barely happened here, often there.
I originally though Holla Forums would become 3rd position.
Now I think it's become the only correct position. A position resembling many other past civilization structures.
The left is just so off in both the authoritarian/old marx way and of course the "new" matriarchal way.

Women need to stop fighting the patriarchy. If they want to be part of the team, find a job only women can do. Something their brains do significantly better than ours. Other than make sandwiches. still crap at that even
That's TRUE gender studies.

Just tell them Marxism is a conspiracy theory, I mean, it pretty much is.

/his/ has the ability to be far more red pilled than a lot of boards because studying history is a red pill. However, from my experience their a lot more neutral on things and prefer not to be emotionally involved in what their talking about.

Most definitely, but race, well that's empirically observable fact.

It's this shit that makes me seethe at communists.

Not only is that revolting disregard for race and culture, it ignores the structural issue of race and culture and tries to destroy it, rather than fix it.
The correct method would be to give Ukraine either racial/cultural autonomy or even complete institutional autonomy, while keeping open trade routes.
Jews forced destruction of race is a public menace to all races.
I bet aliens look down at jews and think "not having those cunts hanging around with us".

The human mind and body are the primary means of production in every society; in any society which does not have chattel slavery, everyone possesses access to the basic means of production.

Stirner was fucking retarded but even he shit on Karl Marx, that's how autistic Marx was.

Why bother studying history then?
I read history to learn about ancestral activities and ways of life. I love trying to imagine the experience of those times, the way of thinking, the physical world they lived in.
I lost interest in video games partially because history awakened my perception of the current and past worlds. All of a sudden they seemed shit compared to the real thing.

What kind of no-life loser wastes his life trying to propagandize to a chinese fingerpainting board? This is why Holla Forums wins. We don't actively try to win converts from Holla Forums, /k/, or whatever. We just shitpost however we please wherever we please, and we have fun that way. Holla Forums is trying to run some sort of autistic conspiracy, and everyone hates them for it. To try to copy Holla Forums's retarded tactics would only come across as preachy and annoying, and it would only cause more people to turn against us. The best thing to do when you see Holla Forumsdancers in the wild is to call them faggots and let them make assholes of themselves. We don't need an organized effort; just having fun has been working just fine.

Except it's absolutely not, it's a wholly arbitrary and mutable thing based on the subjective value a population invests in different social roles and occupations.

They have done that on Holla Forums for over a year now.

there certainly are a large number of shill derrailing and saging good treads in other boards but they are always pointed at and laughed at, just like every lefty post in all other boards would be laughed at if they actually had enough content to make lefty treads but all they can do is bitch and moan about the right

Holla Forums does not act, they only react

more stirner smuggies?

...

How bout you read the post you replied to?

Bourgeois or prole is an objective classification

equivocation.


What is the definition of "means of production"? Here's a hint: It's not labor.

why dont you show off those bread lines, people jumping off of buildings out of starvation and gulags?

OH THAT'S RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU ARE SELF UNAVARE AUTISTS :^)

Honestly we just need to be active on other boards such as /fit/ /k/ Holla Forums /loomis/ etc.
You can tell by the numbers each board has A LOT of us just stick to using Holla Forums and Holla Forums only.

Remember when Holla Forums was first made, a bunch of the users went around other boards creating threads like "Holla Forums and /[board]/ friends?" with some gay anime image macro?
They got laughed off every board they tried it.
No one on the other boards I browse like Holla Forums because they're obnoxious faggots.

Some people on the other boards don't like Holla Forums because of Holla Forums impersonating us, and I'll jus flat out admit it.
Some people on this board can be spergy as fuck on other boards.

/a/ is /a/
both of you fuck off
moefem weirdos

even krautchan makes less autistic memes than this

When it comes to arguing against Communists or trying to shit on leftists, remember that nothing short of keeping them away from power and the ability to force their ideology will help.Cockblocking them too also helps OnDebatingJews.jpg is something that should be considered word for word, albeit with a bit of adlibbing. One thing however is that unlike Jews hiding their Jewry, leftists will act in a fashion similarly to tossing collected fish(the ideology's followers) off their boat if other fishermen acknowledge the smell. Holla Forums as it is is simply too ineffectual to actually do more than tossing their fish out of the boat, as they have done with that one nigger who "debated" with Internet Aristocrat/Mr. Metokur. It's not that he was shit at thinking as a leftist or anything else, it was that he accidentally became yet another (More like every single) pinko ever who has contributed to hurting the image of Communism and Socialism.

Communists seek to destroy things that they would claim to simply disacknowledge, which ironically means they are still deeply affected by the things they claim to be spooks. They have the full intention of performing both short term and long term actions that would inevitably destroy cultures and races for the sole purpose of reducing peoples and individuals down to being nothing but basic numbers and single word or character traits, such as age, sex, and how much of his income that should be redistributed to people who he'll likely never meet in his life, particularly people who hold the least amount of biological and social similarities.

They are also polygamist wannabes, who believe that if they get even a chub to something that clearly isn't the opposite sex, then they must achieve a hedonistic lifestyle with whatever it is gave them that chub in the first place. This is why they insist so much on avoiding masculine tendencies(feminine penis and general androgyny) and traits beyond being willing to pick up an AK and contribute to the revolution, though all of them are content with waiting in a bunker and hoping that when they emerge from their locked doors that the red cards they carry validate them as community-overseeing officials or local ideology proselytizers due to their lack of actual manliness. They see nuclear families not only as a threat, but a sin because it is a family structure that is more fixed and less "free" than trying to turn their penises into permanently leaking firehoses rubbing against each other.

There's not much else I can say that probably hasn't already been thought of or said by anyone else in this thread about Holla Forums and other leftists, but keep in mind that they deserve to be hated in every way you can. They rely on deceitful subversion because they're incapable of anything else, but also because even if they had all the political and economical power and firepower in the universe, they would still opt for subversion as a favorite tactic. All truths you could tell to disparage them are more effective than anything you could make up, but remember that you can't tell the truth to them, as that will never work to convince them, thus you must tell the truth at them to convince others. When it comes to other boards, users can, have, and will find Holla Forums annoying, but there'll never be a time when they'll see eye to eye with Holla Forums.

tl;dr: Holla Forums defeats Holla Forums by doing absolutely nothing at all

kek

Looks some someone can't comprehend how anyone who is a self-described leftist is a total retard and "can't even" so he "wews"

Does not equal

So anyone who argues, is defeated, looks at facts and comes back on the other side of the issue is a "parrot"?

user did not get "bullied" on a message board, he LOST an argument, he got blown the fuck out and his feelings were hurt, especially hurt since he had to enter the octogon by himself, get rekted by his self and slink away by his self.

When you have to stand up for your own beliefs without group mentality faggots social signalling to each other - that's scary to you faggots, because you're weak, petty little girls and hate that you know you're weak AND we know you're weak.
But like the faggots you are, you believe you are stronger in larger bundle of sticks - when in reality you are a target rich environment in the eyes of Holla Forums.

Even know, you know your arguments are hollow so you have to prop each other up using feelings and dogpile mentality. God forbid any of you children stand by yourselves, defend your ideals without expecting any rewards or attention for your actions.

Post your favorite IRL commies

Nice false dichotomy, fam. Maybe you should try affirming your own existence rather than justifying it by pretending that you matter to some imaginary greater good.

Faggot.

For a Kek cultist, your meme-magic is very low energy.

...

A better way of phrasing what I meant was that /his/torians tend to be more objectively neutral in trying to keep separate modern morality from what historically happened.

Does absurdity materialize, faggot?

Of course, but it derives from the conflict between the subjectivity's yearning for meaning and its recognition of the objectivity of an uncaring universe of efficient causality.

kek

Nope, wholly subjective ideological constructs.

Any engine, biological, mechanical or otherwise, capable of producing goods, tangible or intangible, of value.


Labor is essentially an intangible commodity produced by the body and mind sold on the open market.

Nietzsche was a Jew lover.

...

Tell that to Mussolini and Hitler, faggot.

Nah, the bourgeois is white, spooks mostly comprise the inner city brigand caste.

Hell, the notion that something conceived of by man is "artificial" is utter idealistic nonsense.

Next time something like NSA leaks or 8 goddesses or some shit like that happens just act ironically
"Its just a conspiracy people, just remain calm"
And
"Da aliens and reptilians xDddddd!!! Amirite?"

Holla Forums doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell because they are first and foremost an antiracist movement. Seriously, they'd pick multiracial capitalism over monoracial socialism every single time.

And the general white population is done cucking. So antiracism is going nowhere.

Everything humans do is a social endeavor as we're social creatures who evolved socially and are the products of thousands of years of socialization.


Except, value is wholly subjective, so any process which bestows value on activities and goods is a subjective, psycho-social process, not a physical one.

Race, while we may conceive of it in psycho-social and socio-cultural terms, is describing actual biological reality. Class is only describing subjective assignations of value.

Which are mere subjective social constructs; the negative value those bills represent and the positive value of the currency are completely subjective. In absence of creditors and competitors, in a state of nature, he would still have to pay "his bills" in the form of labor, risk-taking, and resource investment.

Holla Forums bullying thread?

The belief that material equality is "good" which is the core of economic Marxism is no less simple magical thinking.

Funny how they call themselves "politically incorrect" when >90% of their ideology is boilerplate liberalism.

Then it should be able to be defined empirically, no? If this is the case, why is there so much debate about whether certain groups or individuals belong to one race or another?

Why do you people care about "racism" then? If it doesnt matter to you, why does someone having that preference for x race matter?

Why would I argue with you in good faith when you are ideologically bound to your positions and entirely unwilling to reconsider? I hear how leftism is based on some sort of objective level of economic efficiency and equity and entirely free of "ideology", yet you and people like you will side with the liberal pet of the month every time.

Why are you wasting space and sliding the board with this bullshit? They're cucks, they have no power anywhere!


Jesus fucking christ, their memes suck.


Saved.

>>>/christian/
Fuck off with your "every opposition to a jewish religion is related to these boogeymen!" persecution complex.

Kill yourself.

i made this for d&c tactics targeting Holla Forums vs Holla Forums. it's rampant on Holla Forums.

this is effective. if d&c posters continue derailing then they annoy the rest of the posters, it becomes obvious that they're the bigger problem, and they show themselves as outsiders who don't belong to the board.

nah

I care about racism inasmuch as it affects me and people I choose to care about, this includes racism against whites. Just because a bunch of retards in the middle east believe that they need to kill the infidels for their bastardized moon god doesn't mean that their god is real and desires jihad; similarly just because Holla Forumsacks believe in "race realism" and use it as an excuse to justify their discriminatory collectivism does not mean their beliefs correspond to reality. As for the rest of your criticism, I would highly recommend you to think of others as people who are willing to listen to reason rather than indulging your paranoia that everyone who disagrees with you is inherently against you; it's somewhat of a roadblock for proper discourse.

This is why race, religion, culture, tradition, community, family, and a sense of civilization and purpose, "spooks", are vital: they allow the individual to transcend the existential dread and base nihilism that arises from purely material existence and enjoy a greater experience of life while bettering themselves and their people.

I could be happier believing I was a genius musical virtuoso with a 12" cock, holding this belief, unfortunately, does not make it so.

I am talking specifically about you and people like you. Not average members of society. I have people at my work who are NPR liberals and Bernie voters who I get along with because I purposefully do not engage in politics. I work in a warehouse and I need to get along with the people around me. All they know is that I voted for Trump.

And so you can choose which people you care about but I can not?

So if you are the self professed vanguard of classical orthodox leftism, do not act like are free from ideological constraints.

Good job? So did I.
No, everyone does, whether they want to or not. This is an unfortunate reality, but its consequences can be limited by the conscious attempt to treat everyone justly, as dictated by empathy (the subjective recognition of the subjectivity of others).
When did I claim to be the "vanguard of classical orthodox leftism"? Do you just think anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas of race must be a "classical orthodox leftist"?

Please buy /a/non's game btw, we need more redpilled OC creators

And it can and has been.


For multiple reasons, one of which is the muddying of the waters on the subject of race by race deniers who preferred mental masturbation over material wealth and divisions of labor and who took over roles as gatekeepers of academia and other outlets of culture and thought. Another is that race has a socio-cultural dynamic as well as a biological dynamic, and as such race confers status as races are unequal and some racial groups have been far more successful; as race has intangible social value, humans will naturally barter and exploit it, thus these debates on which people are really what race arise. However, this dynamic does not discount the biological basis of race, it only shows human social behavior is often rooted in irrational cognitive processes which is fine so long as the whole cognitive-behavioral pattern is conducive to survival and propagation.

I could be happier with a bullet in your brain, you fucking autistic piece of shit.

Fuck off, shill.

Well you come here and take the positions of a person from Holla Forums and refer to Holla Forumsacks from an outsider perspective, so yeah.

I didnt state anything in the form of a rule like that. You yourself just happen to fit the bill of a typical person from Holla Forums. Simple as that. If you have all appearances of coming from the place where the majority of posters describe themselves in such a way, I am not off in that way. Just as if I were to go to Holla Forums and started taking Holla Forums positions they would call me "NeetSoc" or something.

Uh, no these are the same tactics they've always used. OP is a faggot, and thread is a shill.

sage

Then what are the biological bases of race? What race are Italians, Finns, Greeks, and Turks, and why is this so? How about Dravidians, Parsis, Assyrians, Armenians, Egyptians, or even Ethiopians? I'm not being facetious, I genuinely want to hear the reasons why you think these groups must fall into one racial category or another.

I understand your skepticism, considering there probably were some people from Holla Forums in this thread, but it does turn people off when you associate them as members of antagonistic group due to a disagreement with a single, albeit major, part of the mainstream thought of this board.

You just categories yourself you stupid fuck. You clearly just identified Italians Greeks Turks etc as different groups of people.

So all cultures are races? Were the Shakers a race?

Dont play dumb. This is just a basic enough summary from wiki.

So, by race you are referring to ethno-racial groups? If this is indeed the primary organization for human societies, would it be safe to assume that one would clearly see more inter-group genetic diversity than intra-group genetic diversity with respect to ethno-racial groups?

Fact of the matter is there are people who want to organize society with race and inherited physical traits as a qualifier to participation in said society. People prove the existence of race, or people go about trying to disprove the existence of race, with science and genetics and all that, which is well and good. But because "race" as it exists matters and is valid as long as people want it to matter, and want it to be valid. Simple as that. I believe it matters. I act upon this belief. Therefore it has an effect on the world.

Just as you have these sand people exploding for their "Allah". Realistically speaking, it doesnt matter if Allah is real or not. Because people act on the premise of Allah existing, it has zero effect on the natural world if Allah exists or not.

So long as people have eyes and classifiable groups of people have physical differences, "race" will exist. And people who have preference for one race or another will exist.

No?

(checked)
Criminally underrated post

he fresh out of camp or something?

Well, if your primary argument is correct, race is essentially a social construct, which isn't in and of itself meaningless, much like the belief in any religion, which you yourself have stated. However, beliefs which are not backed by reason are irrational, and no amount of contrary evidence can persuade those who assume irrational beliefs from faith, while those who can be persuaded aren't likely to agree with arguments based in faith. Thus, arguments for these beliefs aren't likely to be persuasive, at least to those who value logos more than pathos. If genetic diversity is not the best possible empirical evidence for ethno-racial groups, I would like to know what is.

Shitposting and derailing boards until no one bothers posting isnt "swaying" the narrative

Ha, good luck, classcucks.

...

literally

Nice Gulagposting, faggot.

we don't need to waste our time with this crap. Hell, the less time people from here waste talking about their imaginary waifus the more we can dedicate to influencing normies.

STAY ON TARGET. DON'T FOLLOW THE RED HERRING.

Call it a theory if you prefer. In practice nothing changes. The reason I am not relying on the scientific material around race in this specific discussion is because you yourself have said you dont believe it. You take positions of faith. I am not going to sit here and sift through papers and charts that you already said you dont care for in the first place. Waste of my time. Im not going to give grapes to a man who told me he hates grapes.

But most people arent you, and they arent Holla Forums, and thus these statistics are good in "redpilling" them. I can use science or philosophy to discuss race.

To get back to the philosophical/theoretical part, you say these arguments arent likely to be persuasive, yet we have the phenomenon of unscientific racialism. From the old southern US to ancient India. Even today there are little African tribes killing each other, yet I doubt these African people have ever even heard the word "genetics".

Man the enlightened middle ground wins again! Everyone is dumb but you!

no one is here but me ;_;

no one is here but me ;_;

Did it ever occur to you that there's more than two sides? But I guess that's an impossible concept for identitarians to grasp, it always has to be "us vs them".

I made #gasthecommies on rizon

I do believe in science. I don't know of any compelling scientific evidence for the existence of race, especially as a clearly defined categorization of the human species, but some may exist. If you think one needs to assume a conclusion before receiving scientific proof, then you simply don't understand science, as that is literally the opposite of the scientific method. As for unscientific racism, I fail to see how the actions of fools suggest that they are somehow correct, and even if they were, wouldn't your example suggest that each tribe is a race?

really though. they got a black president, that's enough, we're even now.

Evolution.

?

How did you manage to say the exact evidence I gave for the existence of race, and still not be able to see the logic?

The selective forces acting on the white man and the nigger were different.

I dont think that, I was accommodating you. That would make you unscientific. Science does not and can not account for ideology. All humans are to at least some small extent, irrational actors. Why do we choose to eat non-nutritious food? Or grow inefficient crops?

It doesnt necessarily, but it shows race is a powerful cultural force that does not necessarily need to be proven in order for it to be relevant and have effect. It also just so happens that there is scientific evidence that supports some of this.

In practice to the Africans, sure why not. But I dont really care too much about Africans. I was using it as an example to broadly illustrate the existence of groups of "others" across the world. I didnt mean anything more.

When two populations are geographically separated, the alleles of those populations will change independently of one another. The resulting variation IS race.

tbh it would have to be stalin or tito but i hate communism in general

What's the point of this channel exactly?

Great, now we're getting somewhere. Those differences, according to the theory of evolution, should result in different frequencies of alleles between races as a whole, right?

In-group vs. out-group psychology, right? But that doesn't mean the distinctions between groups isn't ultimately arbitrary beyond a cultural perspective, no?

So would any geographically separated group be an individual race? What if they are behaviorally separated, in that two populations occupy the same habitat but don't mate with each other?

Sorry if I came/am coming across as antagonistic, I legitimately want to understand the ideas behind this concept.

Only as arbitrary as anything else is arbitrary.

I've found /a/ and Holla Forums to be incredibly receptive to our views.

It's like 50% Holla Forums there, the other half are normies. It's easy to counter-shill when they try and go off topic, especially on /a/ since our smug anime girl folders are essentially unlimited.

/his/ isn't exactly receptive, but going there and trying to shill is a great learning experience because it can increase your historical context. You'll get shredded because their referencing ability is better but at the end of the day you'll still learn a shitload about 3rd Reich domestic and economic policy or whatever.

not necessarily. Over time they would surely become distinct races but we're talking several generations here.

As unlikely as such a case would be, you're correct. If people selectively bred for specific groups the groups would become more and more distinct over time.

There are variations in allele proportions that are proven to have phenotypical effects on different groups of humans. Lactose tolerance is a great example. Europeans evolved the ability to metabolize dairy, since they had cows in their environment, and milk was a source of energy. Native Americans, however, didn't have cows, and as such have a nearly 100% incidence rate of lactose intolerance.

So, in the case of a colonial power, for instance, if a colony was created but didn't receive a regular influx of people from their homeland, these people would become a unique race within the span of several generations. In practice, does this mean "Poles" of the diaspora in Brazil and the US are no longer Poles, even if all of their recent ancestors were members or descendants of the diaspora?

Well, that isn't exactly true. Things like mathematical axioms or empirically verified theories, such as evolution, seem less arbitrary than a purely cultural interpretation of race, as they are, at the very least, intersubjective.

Isn't it hilarious how leftists, when left to their own devices, immediately begin to plan how to subvert their opposition since their ideas are incapable of standing up to rational inquiry?

No, you respond with "class is a spook". I literally got banned from Holla Forums for three weeks for posting that one comment.

Yes. That's basically how all races formed. Humans formed in one location, spread outward, settled in the easily habitable regions pockmarking the largely uninhabitable world at the time, became isolated by jungle, dessert, mountains, etc. and a million or so years later the races we have today were largely established (though constantly changing as genes always do).


No. Evolution takes time.

lol fucking dumbasses

wtf im an anarcho syndical communalist horizontal trapezoid now

I guess my problem with understanding your position is the scale of evolution required to lead to a separation between distinct races. If around a century is not enough, how long is necessary under normal conditions? Obviously, it would be a shorter time than speciation, but by what factor? Moreover, around times of relative cataclysm, such as the fall of an empire, shouldn't selection be higher and thus the differentiation be accelerated?

Holla Forums has been all over Holla Forums for months

It would take many hundreds or even thousands of generations.

Yes. As we know they do.

So, would Slavs be one race or several, considering evidence for differentiation between West/East/South groups begins around the early 6th century?

So do all genetic clusters constitute an individual race or is FST analysis insufficient as a measure of human genetic diversity?

If you're looking for a precise time scale, you're not gonna find one. There are a few variables that are easy to wrap your head around though:
The more variation, the more likely it is that one trait will be selected over another and eventually become more prominent in the daughter population than the mother. And the more likely it is to happen at any given time period, the sooner it's likely to happen in general.
Mutation is a very random process that contains a vast amount of variables in itself. If a mutation that doesn't kill the offspring comes about, that's essentially tantamount to adding to the previous variable.
This is largely what defines which traits get passed on. Culture partially defines what is attractive, how much you breed, how soon you breed. Environment determines your likelihood hood of being exposed to mutagens, whether you can sustain your current population, and whether a given trait has utility or undermines survivability.

These aren't things you can really get hard numbers on and any results you get will be probabilistic approximations. The short answer is "it happens when it happens."

Oh, and the total time scale would be effectively halved as both populations are going two different paths. Not necessarily half because the rate of change will likely be different for the two groups, but the point is the same.

I knew this was where you were trying to go, but I didn't really mind because you're well aware of how retarded the argument is.
What separates Camarhynchus psittacula from Camarhynchus pauper? Even within populations they hold genetic diversity on several cluster loci, so what is it that sets them apart? Are you about to claim that they are in fact the same species?

The issue with playing fast-and-loose with the definition of biological race is that beyond the level of a species (and even in some cases including species), differentiation becomes increasingly arbitrary as the ratio of individual genetic variation within the group to the variation between these groups rises. Without a clear-cut, empirical definition of race, it becomes difficult to separate Swede from Finn, Finn from Mongol, Mongol from Chinese, and so on and so forth.


Traditionally, if they interbreed successfully, they are the same species. If their young is unable to survive and reproduce, due to the combination of alleles resulting in infertility or the inability to feed (which, if I recall, is the case in this particular example), they are separate species. Even the notion of species, however, doesn't adequately reflect biological reality consistently, since it's more an attempt at reconciliation between Darwinism and Linnaean taxonomy. A more consistent concept is that of a gene pool.

But that is blatantly false. That does not define a species, else the two species of finch I listed are the same species. This would mean that bison and cattle are the same species, that the majority of canines are the same species, and that Bottlenose dolphins are no different to False Killer Whales. You do not understand the term you have been trying to argue this entire time.

Yet we can determine the race of a skeleton.

I agree that's a problem. But something being ill-defined and arbitrated does not allow one to ignore its natural results. Studying race is kinda like studying economics. Studying these groups as a whole still maintains some validity despite a lack of clear-cut dividing lines, but the best analysis comes from looking at individual cases regardless of the broader strokes.
We can argue capitalism vs socialism, but a pure archetype of one or another seldom if ever happens for either, and the exact line between the two and be a bit fuzzy. Looking at how individuals living within these umbrellas is what allows us to actually make such value judgments about the two umbrellas, though. Despite the system not 100% strictly adhering to one or the other.
Same goes for races. Looking at the genetic makeup of a population requires measuring the individuals, cutting out significant outliers, and averaging out.

So really, what "races" are is predetermined. One posits that a given population is distinct from another, those populations are then studied and the consistent variations between the two become, by definition, the differentiating factors between the two given races. Much like how one predefines two economic systems as being distinct, and the variations between the two become the measuring stick by which a real world system is measured.

A race is a category like any other. Categorization can't be "wrong." It can only be useful or useless. And given the accuracy by which one can estimate the behavior of these groups based on which they belong to, the racial categories we abide by clearly have some utility.

I would point you to Mayr, but I think you might be fundamentally mistaken if you believe the meaning of "species" is well-defined by anything other than the BSC.

So do Finns have caucasoid eye-sockets and angular pelvises, or mongoloid eye-sockets and straighter pelvises? Also, were the Sumerians Australoid?

I'm not really sure that any of those boards lean towards Holla Forums, especially /a/, good luck getting past our meidos with outright shitposting.

I see, so the fundamental separation of races is conceptual, and is then used as a basis for generally effective assumptions. My only qualm with this is that it would seem to be unfair to outliers, whereas supporting these outliers would improve their fitness and lead to a gradual improvement of their condition, along with everyone else's (i.e. decreasing violent crime rates).

A better attack is this: Stirner was a literal cuck
From "Max Stirner - His Life and His Works" By Mackay

Cute thread there Holla Forumsacks.

Tell me, what do you think you can do against the one force that defeated your dear fuhrer?

We crushed you like bugs when the American and European capitalists could not.

Communism still holds strong around the world. Where are your NatSoc nations?

And what do you have against people who wish to not engage in your jewish capitalism? What is it to you that we do not desire a world destroyed by the degenerate institutions of avarice?

Is it the fact that we value all laborers, that we do not wastefully slay those who could contribute to the cause regardless of what they are?

If you win, humanity will not leave planet earth. It will die in a great purging, because none on earth are purebloods.

If we win, humanity will conquer the universe. Which future would you rather see happen?

Come to Holla Forums if you want to stop squabbling over buzzfeed videos and actually make something worthwhile of your empty lives.

Stay on Holla Forums if where people put their dicks is more important than galactic control.

Morality is a spook. Also, the bourgeois are evil for exploiting the poor workers like that

It wasn't communism that defeated Hitler, it was the Russians. Russia was strong before communism, Russia was strong during communism, Russia is strong after communism.

Venezuela was shit before communism, and it is shit during communism. Welcome to race realism, fam

Enjoy when kommisar Jamal and Tyrone seize your own and your wifes means of reproduction wit dat big black dig, cuck.

to be clear, by "outlier" I meant genetics wise (i.e. they are too genetically removed from those around them to be called one of them).

Those actually within the group that demonstrate their aptitude (which is what I assume you meant) should be treated accordingly. But until he actually does something useful he's still a nigger.
Opportunities for nigs should exist, but efforts to uplift them through any means other than selective breeding are futile.

And since we're on the topic of fairness, is it fair that we allow violent niggers to run amok in the streets and fuck with people who just want to live their lives without getting nigged on?

USSR colapsed. Showed shameful poverty despite winning the war. Many survived thanks to "pig capitalist" War food aid.

Commisar Jamal and Commisar Cletus. That's right, the rednecks Holla Forums hates will be their downfall

don't be soo arrogent OP
8 has shills
they are just the highest tier shills.

they use one of two main tactics.

1. divide and conquer with legitimate points that we would actually use on one another but dragging it out and never coming to resolution.

2. The bibi special. Try to demoralize always. If someone shows weakness about something exploit it by showing concern then leading to a direction with no hope or a wait and see type resolution.

some of you enterprising faggots could use the tactics on the enemy.

some of the lower IQ among us fall for the demoralization technique. The left gets high on demoralization. bonus points if you say "as a jew i" when you demoralize them.

You found common cause with liberals to defeat fascists like dirty rats. There's a reason why communists find common cause with capitalists. Communism is Jewish astroturfing with capitalist money floating around your organisations to keep them afloat. You communist would be nothing without Jewish capitalists funding everything you do.

The only thing they ever had was numbers, everything else was sub-par, this is evident all the way from Tsushima to the end of WW2 with all the losses they had.

leftypol cringes everytime you show those fags compiled facts


On the contrary, it's best not to imagine a parasitic worm as competition, you give them too much credit. Communism destroyed itself, let leftypol do the same. Fuck all these threads about them, I'm guessing they're the ones starting them to garner more attention to themselves.

Russia was nothing but agrarian feudalist peasantry before communism. After the revolution they had industry, cinema, fashion and automated travel.

Venezuela was nothing but jungle before communism. Now they have cities and all kinds of modern amenities.


Stalin would not return the power to the people after the war, his dictatorship made the russians no better off that post-war germany.


Private Property =/= Personal Property.


Liberals are disgusting and pathetic. We have no use for their ineffective infighting.

Nice meme, there is no fundamental difference.

Pretty much this.
You remember that kid in middle school who always wanted to start fights despite being a limp-wristed faggot who would get crushed by by the bottom 20%? That's Holla Forums right now. They're throwing down the gauntlet with their heads full of "David and Goliath" fantasies. So full of insecurity after having so many eggs dropped on their head that the only way they have to save face is to tackle a giant.

The best we can do is ignore them. Let them think they're fighting the good fight over on /a/ and wherever else. We have bigger fish to fry and better things to spend our time on.

Obviously not, the idea of compulsory sterilization of violent criminals is quite appealing. We don't allow livestock with bad characteristics to breed, no reason to not do the same for citizens, especially if they're already on welfare. Nothing was worse for western civilization in the past century than abandoning eugenics because of "muh Nazis" and "muh reproductive freedom".

No, they are the same thing. You just like to pretend there is so you can keep your amenities.

If you have seven houses and you only use one, the other six are private property.

You keep what you use, so be sure your wife is well used.

...

Not at all. But if it's empty for several months, it is no longer yours.

The good thing about communism though is that you just get another house.

Yeah or maybe pick up the vaguest idea what we're actually arguing so you don't end up screaming at your own delusions every time you talk about us. Does "lurk moar" mean anything to you?
Honestly I think theory is too hard for >90% of you though, even if you put in a sincere effort

Who gets to decide how long it takes for personal property to transform into private property?
Seems pretty arbitrary to me, or I guess you could say, spooked.

So if I'm hospitalized I lose my house? If I go on vacation, my house is no longer mine?

But what about my family heirlooms? What about my Grandfather's ashes? I kept those things in my house.

8ch.net/pol/res/8310191
WATCH OUT LADS, THE COMMIES ARE AFTER US.

>>>/gaschamber/

We have little to fret about even at their best efforts.

They legitimately believe that leftism is "becoming more popular" because they see more leftists here. Now this is obviously due to migration, but they ironically, just like the democrats they claim to hate, rely on migration to increase their numbers. Meanwhile, "anti-semitism is at all time highs" and Reddit is slowly, but surely, growing to hate other races. Even the cuckold zone of r/The_Donald pushed away many of their followers when they spoke against white ethnonationalism.

lmao youre copying gulagposting?

Poland is this way >

...

>>>/oven/

But you ARE copying gulagposting

Nice gulagposting friend.

Just like when Holla Forums was the one to "steal" "your" ancap ball meme?

Directing morons to the gas chamber has been a thing long before Holla Forums, moron. Hell, it was a thing pre-exodus. If anything, you stole gas chamber from us and rebranded it as gulag.

In fact, I remember being on Holla Forums back when it was relatively new. You guys were mostly the anarchist type back then but there was a thread about the Jews in which a lot of people were pushing the narrative that commies hate Jews, too. That was around the time you guys pivoted from Marx faggotry to Stalin faggotry and you started shitposting about gulags and bunkers.

...

I don't get leftypol, are any of them actually working class? Have any of them had a job even? I am not sure how they have constructed a left wing worldview based on liberal arts classes and a bargain bin left of center Nietzsche.

The community


There is understanding and exceptions. Communism is not bureaucratic.


Of course. I myself work 60 hours a week as a ditch digger. I get paid minimum wage, if I'm lucky. I'm not an armchair philosopher, I need communism to make my life better, no amount of pulling myself up by my bootstraps is changing anything.

goddammit

You could go to a temp agency and be making more than medium wage in less than a week, assuming you are a yank who isn't in bumfuck nowhere.

Fucking *minimum

Worse. I'm a southerner in the middle of nowhere, and my car has been broken down for six months. If I can't walk to work, I don't work.

THEY ARE BLAMING US FOR THEIR SHITTY MEME, LOL!

check their catalog and see what's got them so asshurt.

...

Like Jewish master, like slave.

They just made a thread about this thread the replies are fucking hilarious.

8ch.net/leftypol/res/1071524.html

This is begging the question in the strict sense. The issue is whether or not the things in question ("class" and the components you've named of "social relationships" and "means of production") are objective. You've merely stated that these thing are objective, because they are concrete objects. This supporting reason is not argued in any way. You haven't actually shown the very thing that is being discussed.

Please regale us with arguments about how:

(1) The concept of objectivity is tied to concrete objects (a key claim you haven't supported).

(2) Relational structures, like social relationships, are concrete ontological entities.

(3) Social relationships to the means of production would exist independently of subjective perceptions of it (since that is one of the conceptions of objectivity).

(4) Even if you can answer (1) to (3), please show how you would either rule out all non-concrete things in your arguments (i.e. universals), or explain them away with some form of nominalism (or conceptualism). For example, attributing properties to things, and an explanation as to how your claims have force without reference to propositions, states of affairs, etc.

Reminder to actually argue for these things rather than do what you've done a few times in this thread when you've been challenged on something: short one-liners without any substance to them, or "read a book".

What even is that text?

As said, you just answered your own question.

If we want to go all taxonomic autiste about it, there are 3 major subspecies of humans (Sub-Saharan Africans, European-Asians, Australian Aborigines; these are just my layman's terms for these groups) which can be further subdivided into distinct racial groups and subracial groups.

Leftism comes primarily from entitlement, envy, and a lack of concern for others.

The entire concept is is centered around an oppressor/oppressed dichotomy. Leftists Never believe they are the ones in power. They look above themselves and crave the fruits of their labor, they look below and see tools with which to strip the fruits from those above.

Is the notion of being oppressed not an attractive one? It means you would achieve much more if not for the structure you deem oppressive. Oppression provides an excuse for ineptitude and a scapegoat to blame all your problems on.

So yes, most lefties are lowlifes. They don't want to accept the fact that their situation is the result of their actions, because then they'd have to accept that they're useless fucks who have made the choice to waste their lives away.

Socjus is pretty much the same phenomenon, but it attracts the upper-middle classes. It allows them to believe they're oppressed when they are, in fact the bourgeois.


This right here: this is what I'm talking about. You CAN increase your income. Fuck, you can even do it online without leaving your house. But you don't. You won't either. You're just gonna sit there and bitch about the capitalist system which makes it possible for you to even put food in your mouth while coming up with excuses for why you can't do X,Y, or Z..

Fuck yourself.

>>>Holla Forums1071524

This post has me howling in laughter.

Oh shit, I forgot to add.
Learn how to link faggot.

Buy a bike, then save up funds and move is my only advice. It can be tough in a situation like that though.

Sage for off topic

Oh, as to why one group falls into one racial category instead of a another, the answer is descent, the same reason one canine is a domesticated dog and one a gray wolf and one is a dingo.

LOL this wasn't about posting on your shitty board since we get banned on sight. It was about Twitter and other public arenas. Stop getting fucking triggered.

t. Holla Forums

gas yourself faggot, you don't need a hard, specific definition to accept the existence of something. Species isn't clearly defined either but it clearly exists. get into the oven faggot

Shakers were celibate, so, no, they never developed into a race. The Amish, however, while not a race, are a genetically distinct lineage group who came into existence via voluntary acceptance of exclusionary breeding and social rules.

Are you saying Holla Forums didn't start it? It feels very Holla Forumslike - forced and focus grouped.


25 miles is a long way to bike, I really do live in the middle of nowhere. Next year my old job will open back up - it's always minimum wage, so that's better than sometimes minimum wage.

LOL race doesn't exist in any tangible way faggot, the furthest human race from you are the pygmys and guess what, you and a pygmy look much more similar than a pug and a great dane

Why are they raiding us now that the elections are over? Why are they raiding us at all? You can't kill the idea of Holla Forums, nature's course wants us to do what we're doing.

One does.

WE AREN'T RAIDING YO GAY ASS BOARD

...

didn't even break the board's rule yet I got a ban, lmao.

If you are living off family/government you should be able to save up some funds to fix your truck at the very least. Or buy a beater on the cheap. You should be able to find a cheap car from the 90s/early 2000's that can run fairly reliably, especially in the south. I know because I can find those in the north, and our cars don't last.

The revolution has eaten you.

Don't worry about that, our jans are retarded and I've gotten banhammered a couple times by them too

lmao

?

...

Dumping my poor collection of Stirner memes here.

...

isn't that against the nap faggot?

Forgot one.

Left-wing ideals rely almost entirely on Spooks to continue function, while only minor parts of right-wing economics is comparable.
The 'state', the 'group', 'property', 'freedom', and 'health' are all abstractions when applied in the manner of left-wing theory.
Stirner addressed theocratic or anti-Enlightenment 'right-wing' shitpost philosophy, but he was also an ardent critic of relevant and new 'left-wing' philosophy that adhered to the same fixed concepts.

lel

...

lmao so species don't exist? this is why you scum must be exterminated. This is about genetic deviation and grouping you illiterate faggot. you can call it whatever the fuck you want. you can call it race you can call it spook you can call it ooga booga but, the undeniable fact is that it exists, it is the foundation of identity and culture. hang yourself now

So why does anything Stirner say matters?

also his hair is for gays lmao

This is a terrible, terrible post.

lmao why don't you try actually reading stirner

I see you made a mistake friend, it should written illiterate, not literate.
I hope this helps in the future.

No the KeK speak comes from the turkish pastry cakes, Top Kek. It came to be as a /s4s/ mutation of lel and top lel. The chans switched to lel because they were hipsters and at that time they thought lol was a normie thing to say. After a while however both lel and kek have become cringey and forced, and just saying a simple lol seems much better now.

It's like the don't even understand the ball meme.

When I'm through with work each day, I'm too tired to do any extra work. I curl up in my bed, as I am now, and I hope to everything I don't get another charley horse.

Also, pic related.


I don't, I rely on o solo mio.


A. We're not raiding, we're spending quality family time with little cousin Holla Forumslyanna. Poor dear, doctors can't cure her retardation.

B. The competitive part of human nature that Holla Forums prefers is very self destructive. We prefer the cooperative part of human nature instead.


Holy shit, someone screencapped my post? 11/10

You could try reading the post over and over again until you understand it you black cock lover

I know it's a meme but the problem is conflating private property with "stuff"

Nigger I just hate new people who start spouting shit without even bothering to observe our rules and culture of posting.

Anyone bumping these threads is either stupid or leftypol.

kek only became associated with the turkish pastry online in 2013. it was wow speak since 2004.
newfag confirmed
knowyourmeme.com/memes/kek

What's the distinction between colors other than arbitrary assignations given to subjectively perceived variations in the wavelength of light?


Both geographical separation and social/behavioral separation can be the source of racial divergence.

Global report.

But 4chan only started using it after /s4s/ was created. Hence nobody ever referencing the WoW thing because no one fucking plays that, especially not the underage crowd of /s4s/.

WEW

YOU GOT BLOWN THE FUCK OUT DROWN YOURSELF IN SEMEN

The labor theory of value is false. Time spent working on a product has less influence than the quantity and quality. If I make chairs and I make them faster, but better quality than my competitors does that mean that my competitor's chairs are more valuable? No of course not. By believing in the LTV you forfeit your right to live.

WEW FIXED WEW

For whatever reason?

Not that you'll have stopped me from posting, I've got tons of VPNs.

use your noggin for a second. why else would the word kek have been associated with amusement if it hadn't been for wow? the turkish cakes as a meme was referencing wow speak.

...

This

...

Don't flatter yourself faggot. There are ways of quantifying genetic diversity and humans don't meet the standards for being different species or even subspecies and even if they were it wouldn't mean shit. Go download some more images from Blacked.

It means the Brazilian Poles are a distinct subgroup of the greater Polish ethno-racial group, like the Yorkshire is a subgroup of the greater terrier lineage group of dogs.

Sounds like something an inferior shitskin would say.

So are you going to post any evidence suggesting otherwise?

Because it sounds funny. Besides, are you telling me the 15 to 18 year old userbase of /s4s/ at the time had played WoW in 2004 when it was at it prime? None of them ever referenced WoW. If the meme was started by a WoW player, it's unlikely that it was propagued by WoWfags.

knowyourmeme.com/memes/topkek

It was the topkek thing that made it popular.

it's socially necessary labor time faggot. think about how real competition works. if you can make the chairs faster, what's stopping the others from making them faster? if they can't they'll go out of business. so the labor time that creates a commodity ( a good sold in a market) is a social average. What LTV is is a theory that shows how the difficulty of creating a good sets its value.

DAMAGE CONTROL COMPLETELY ASSBLASTED KEK NOW CONSUMES YOUR SOUL

...

There is no hard line, it's fuzzy.

I don't know why we don't just go over there and completely shit it up, it's totally possible, so what if we give them a temporary boost to IPs if it kills it in the long run?

Reported for denying scientific fact.

Still doesn't prove how time put in effect value. It may effect price, but not value.

I fail to see the wew here. We're onto Holla Forums's trickery, simple as that.

I don't agree with the connection to basic questions, as we have had an influx of новыйтоварищaя lately.

You'll never convince me to be a leftist because you can never convince me to not be "racist".

you misunderstand, it may influence price, but the value created by SNLT is not the same thing as price. Rather, its a theoretical abstraction which explains the logic of capitalism. SNLT explains how society values different goods in a capitalist system.

doing more work anyway is the definition of "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps."
"Tired" is the favorite excuse of a fuckoff.

the difference is, a slave didn't choose to be a slave, a serf didn't have any say on whether they became a serf, an unskilled lackey chose never to acquire the skills that would make him valuable.

Value is not created by workers. It's created by the needs of a society.

Appeal to tradition, spooktacular!

Reported.

and yet, if a commodity took no work to create (i.e. anyone could get it by barely lifting a finger), it would have no value under capitalism.

A lot of the time, especially in Rome or Greece, slaves would chose to remain slaves because it ensured their survival as there was no welfare for useless people to leech off of. As far as I know, if they were actually good or skilled slaves they wouldn't live terribly either.
I can't base this on any source as I just remember reading about this a long time ago

don't worry, Holla Forums can have you atustic weebs

Value is psychological, sure people will pay a higher price for an item than they think it's worth if they have to but they'll think it's bullshit. People will value an object of higher quality because better labor went into it. Labor shouldn't be thought of in terms of simple man-hours.

Oh fuck you got me, I'm a long-legged pissed-off Puerto Rican who hates you guys for, among other things, constantly either ignoring me or suggesting I be genocided "humanely".

A counter-argument? There was never an argument. I already showed how humans have less variance than dogs, which are all, by the way

Screencapped for cringe. KYS

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH NICE SPOOKS FAGOLA
TRIGGERED

Why hello, phil 101
First the two lines you greentexted are separate thoughts, the second doesn't follow from the first. The point is that "class" is a -technical term- in Marxist theory which is defined in a specific way, with a specific purpose in mind for defining it this way. This specific way it's defined does not consider social attitudes, culture, etc. but the factors of production and how they're arranged. This does not depend on (1.) Take the contrapositive for instance, "class is not defined by your social relationship to the means of production" does not imply "the concept of objectivity is not tied to concrete objects." Lotta weasel words and vague terminology there regardless.

I wasn't asserting or depending on the conclusions of (2) either. It would fit with (1) to reach the given conclusion, but that's a sufficient-but-not-necessary argument structure for what I said.
Clearly relationships are not physical objects. The means of production are.

(3) is an impossible standard of proof. You can't "prove" that the physical world """exists""" independent of subjective perception either, just as you can't prove that faries don't exist. Ultimately this line of inquiry throws you down the pomo rabbit hole. You're equivocating on the word "objective"
The cornerstone of science and materialism is the -assumption- that there exists an objective reality which can be observed in some way and described by predictive models, regardless of how well or of what this reality really """is"""


I mean, I wouldn't. I don't have to. The "correctness" of evolutionary theory, i.e. in terms of ability to rationalize diverse observations and make useful predictions, does not depend on our completely ruling out supernatural causes (God.) So too can we say that material factors exert definite influences on your life and second-order effects on the whole of society which can be predicted - independently of whether or not society is """actually""" guided by the specter of jewish ethnonationalism or "patriarchy" which act exceptionally similar to these material conditions by pure coincidence - because it is useful to do so.
This relies on a more utilitarian idea of truth. Marxism is a science and is subject to all the same epistemological weaknesses as science in general
I assume you're talking about materialism now with (4) because it has less than nothing to do with clarifying a choice of definition.

You are thinking with a mind trained by market capitalism. In a moneyless society, things are made out of need or want or desire, not for profit. Trade works on a commissioned basis like craigslist ads - someone asks for something they can't make themselves, someone else makes it for them.

Competition isn't important under communism, but rather cooperation. If he can't make chairs as good as you, you can show him how to make them better. Doing so does not undercut you in any way, it just means more chairs are being made.

All human thought is conceptual. Those mathematical axioms and empirically verified theories you masturbate over are conceptual as well, human conceptions of objective phenomena

One of Holla Forums's worst traits tbh. Their endless jap shilling.

lmao, go read a fucking book

Bullshit. If I found a gold nugget in the river It would be just as valuable as an equal sized nugget extracted by miners.

Either in rich city states in Greece and only under some Emperors in Rome as far as I know, not sure about republic.
Also that was often simply food, so that the people wouldn't starve to death, nor did it ever take as much budget as it's taking now.

The Bolsheviks were funded and armed by Jew bankers out of London, Berlin and later New York City and DC. You only temporarily defeated Nationalism and Fascism by being dogs of kike capitalists. You're all a bunch of capitalist-roaders, we're the true enemies of the people you pretend to fight but in actuality serve.

Hail Kek and Hitler!

LMAO

This is a point-refuted-a-thousand-times tier misconception. By "value" Marx did not mean "utility." It's a separate concept.
The theory ITSELF is independent of choice of definition, he just called this phenomenon "value" so he didn't have to describe it every single time he referred back to it

you are forgetting the rules of socially necessary labor time. if indeed everyone could go to a river and find a chunk of gold it would have almost no value. but because you have to spend much time either looking for it, or mining for it, it is worth a quite bit more. (although the value is also manipulated in the market price through advertisement and monopolies)

capped for cringe

Nah it was a relentless three front total war with the US manufacturing base wholly untouched and able to churn out hardware at a pretty hot pace.

The republic did have welfare, and large grain subsidies. Not to mention, the whole patron-client system was essentially welfare.

take a selfie then nigga smh

fixed.

So before they were a eugenic traditionalist agrarian folk culture and after a dysgenic post-modernist consumerist shithole? Yay communism?

If you're gonna base everything on dubs then you have to suck up to him because he got bigger dubs.

That explains why 2 million jews left Russia during the revolution and why Stalin purged them from all places of power.

I believe Holla Forums would call them "useful idiots"

are you quoting the right post user?

Stalin was extremely paranoid that the jews that had placed him in power would take control away from him or try to kill him.

No, it was meant for


Anyone can get dubs, it's not divine intervention tbh.

But all the houses are shit because why bother building a good house since someone will take it from you?

Source?

The jews are invisible, everywhere, and explain everything

What if the community decides it wants to organize itself based on race and kill all filthy red subversives?

I am speaking of Russia up to the end of WWII. Stalin became a dictator much like Hitler, and in so doing destroyed the nation. Blame him, not the system.


Because whatever helps the community helps you. I could just as easily say the same for capitalism - why bother building a good house you will never live in? A paycheck? That's just something you trade in for goods. We cut out the middle man and allow you to directly enjoy the fruits of yours and your community's labor.

DPRK News Service. Those are my favorite commies.

That in itself is debatable.

But at what cost? And in what time frame?

Well it's more that Stalin was at the right place at the right time. You could say "The jews placed Hitler in power" and be sorta right because it was their constant kikery over Germany that allowed Hitler to seize power.

Also, that user is arguing that Stalin was not kike controlled because he purged the jews, so he's on your side, yet you are trying to undermine him by saying there's no such thing as jews anyway. So that user is on your side, and so am I. Don't get confused, what i'm saying is that although there was a lot of jewish intervention in the rise of communism, they did not control Stalin. Stalin was paranoid enough to purge all people he thought would betray him. And he was right too tbh all those faggots would have betrayed him.

Educ8 yerself! Communists are just the pawns of globalist elites, the kike pigs you think you're fighting are the ones who fund all your revolutions and activist groups, always have. You're merely pawns of capitalist imperialism and globalism.

wildboar.net/multilingual/easterneuropean/russian/literature/articles/whofinanced/whofinancedleninandtrotsky.html

reformation.org/wall-st-bolshevik-ch11.html

modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=FinalWarning&C=7.3

Then it will likely lose the support of surrounding communities until it decides differently.

Throwing away useful workers for identity politics is an idiotic action.

Of course, the best thing is that in a cooperative society where there is no system of hierarchal power is that the economic hardships, sour grapes and scapegoating that leads to othering people based on biological differences will vanish in a few generations.

What says you aren't either? Why does the alt-right suck up to Israel so much? Why does this Holla Forums become more and more cucked every day?

Stalin was likely himself partially ethnic Jew, he seized power through luck and his personal will ambition, he saw an opportunity, seized it, and purged all who he feared might take it from him.

Hitler came to power through popularity as his party was the only group fighting the communist terrorists and capitalist exploiters keeping Germany mired in violence, poverty and filth and offering a message of inspiration, hope, and national pride to the German people.

All this pointless philosophizing to turn humanity into ants. Wow you got me sold lmao.

Question: In communist will people be able to have the name "Rich"? Can I name my son Richard and call him Rich? Or no?

The cost is not needing money, and the time frame is shortly after the revolution, if I understood your vague question correctly.

I'm Alt-Reich, we only see Israel as a convenient open air concentration camp to offload the Jews we don't outright massacre until we figure out how to deal with them.

because such a movement with immense energy incapable of being contained, the only way to sway and prevent a shoah is by quelling and taming them, this is why they suck up to israel.

Also, for one to win an election, you need to stroke israel's dick otherwise they will use their assets against you, you know like the FUCKING MEDIA AND EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ACCESS TO, you just need to understand how politics works.

Yes, but only a portion of 8/pol/ is really NatSoc. I have seen plenty of racemixer advocates (mostly hapa shilling), PR cucks, civic nationalists and so on and on. And let's not even talk about the new rise of the right beyond this board. It's beyond cucked.

I refer mostly to the cost of overhauling society for something that may or may not even work. The human cost. Because surely you dont expect this all to happen over the course of a single day and for everyone to go along willingly, right? People enjoy the right to private property.

Best thing to do is lurk leftypol, grab screencaps like OP, then shove their faces in it. Their biggest weakness is the same as ours. Everyone is user, and there is no hiding.

One of the most effective things these people have done is making us constantly apprehensive and paranoid of shills, disinfo, and misinfo. I say that because every day it ends up with us fighting eachother and/or laying into newfags that could be redpilled. They did what they did, I want to bring them down to this level. It's not even so much about the act of subversion, but rather the fear of it.

I'm amazed that they've more or less carried on unmolested, when there has been a constant assault on Holla Forums for this long.

They are irrelevant. They have zero potential. They have zero appeal. They are just mildly annoying on occasion.

There is no basis beyond your specuulation that Stalin was partially Jewish, but there is plenty of evidence for Hitler's not so pure ancestry, both historical fact and DNA testing of his living relatives.

Nope. The definition of value is how useful, or desired something is. Work put in to make/extract it doesn't effect how useful, or desirable it is.

you go with the flow my man, the way to win in your favor is by dragging your country to the NEAREST SPECTRUM, and that means you'll have to vote in currently available CUCKED candidates while avoiding to vote to the one that is even more cucked, vote for the less cucked until in the near future, more interesting candidates decides to run, still cucked but less in comparison to the previous, until you achieve someone like hitler to run.

Fuck of shill. kek

I'm not a capitalist, so, why would you criticizing capitalism bother me?


OK let's cut out the middle man, the factory owner if you will: now there is no factory or machines or raw materials, so I guess you have to be a subsistence hunter-gatherer if you want some fruit, but oops, you were out hunting and a rabid wolf snuck up on you, sorry. But hey, let's be generous, let's give you some land, now you're a subsistence farmer, but oops, drought year, your crops fail, starve to death, sorry. Too bad there wasn't some evil greedy middle man factory owner offering employment for guaranteed return on your labor while he takes on all the risks and loss.

Yeah but didn't Hitler rise because of how cucked the country got? If we keep being somewhat civil doesn't that mean the pendulum will never fully swing to the right, and will eventually lay somewhere in the middle? We have no reason to go full NatSoc if we have soft civic nationalism in place. I think we need to take a different approach when it comes to NatSoc in this country.

wew

Yes, you can name him whatever you like.

No, we do not turn humanity into identityless drones. That's what fascism does. We embrace individuality and personal flair, why do you think we meme Max Stirner so often?


As compared to the millions that die for capitalism, and the billions that suffer? You should research American Imperialism, what you find will probably turn your stomach.

Honestly American Imperialism and the working conditions in offshore factories for American companies are enough to sell anyone on communism, the monstrosities done in the name of profit are physically sickening.

No user. I was joking… because my post was shill paranoia. You are very right, thay are basement dwellers so pitiful they can't even go outside and wave a commie flag.

Except that is not how production is determined under capitalism, now is it? What is produced is not what is the most useful. What is produced is what is the most profitable. The allocation of resources under capitalism is thus dependent on the work put in to make a profitable commodity. Yes, use is a prerequisite and on some level an input, but you are incredibly naive if usefulness is the driving force behind capitalism outside of circlejerks like Austrian economics.

I think they're glorious

Well, I'm not their fucking keepers, I follow my own ideals and principle and argue and fight for them here and elsewhere, not everybody is going to come to 100% consensus on everything, it's neither possible nor desirable, but I will align ourselves with probably any who is pro-white and anti-Jew.

Shit son that's some next level strawmanning there.

The workers own the factories. The workers gather the resources. The workers decide collectively what needs to be made. The workers make the products.

There's this little tiny obscure not well known quote from Karl Marx, you probably never heard it before.

"The workers must seize the means of production."

Good enough tbh.

Thank you for the info!

But the workers only have an average IQ of about 90, they're high-time preference, low impulse control, they can't into building and managing a factory and the supply lines necessary to provision it nor the distribution lines to make profit off it. They consume all of their resources in a year and have nothing to show for it except complaints that this is all unfair and someone must pay, like that annoying party official who talked them into how great communism would be and how they should totally seize control of the means of production

How do I imply that it did? I'm pointing out that you keeping make claims about objectivity with no substantive arguments for it. You've made a series of assertions attributing objectivity to specific things with no supporting claims. That's what I'm saying, and it is clear that is my position. What you just stated is the very definition of a strawman. Since you opened your comment by trying to undermine my ethos (muh phil101) with your prestige-signalling, saying that I'm saying that they follow from each other is some top-tier retard reading comprehension (perhaps philosophy 101 is what you really need, since you aren't on my level).


No, you are making out that your stipulative definition is somehow objective. You even said so above where you stated, "class is an objective thing." Then stated what the underlying semantics of the term (the referents of "social relationship to the means of production") that made it so in the post I responded to. You stated in support of these that the referents are "concrete objects." You've given no argument for this at all (and still haven't). You also haven't shown how this line of reasoning works, which was the point of my questions.


This is irrelevant and doesn't answer my question. You are just repeating something you've already said, and it isn't clear to me how this even shows non-dependence on (1), since you haven't spelled it out.


Conditionals aren't arguments, dumbass. There was no conditional statements made. You made a chain of unsupported reasoning about the definition of class (this was my main claim, again), then somehow that the concept of objectivity is tied to concreteness. The series of claims you've made roughly goes:

(i) There are some entities that are concrete objects.
(ii) One of these entities are the social relationships to means of production.
(iii) These are the referents for the meaning of the definition of class.
(iv) Class is an objective classification (along with other named things).

Now, (iv) is unsupported. You still haven't shown how that works, and probably never will.


Not an argument again. Saying something is vague is to say it has borderline semantic cases. Asserting something is vague is not an argument for vagueness. This seems to be a common thread with your posts. Assertions and no depth to your arguments. I actually think you are projecting with the PHIL101 comment, and you lack philosophical depth.


Again, this isn't spelled out for me to even begin to assess. Notice the pattern here?


Then why use the words, "are pretty concrete obects." You've predicated over multiple things. Spell out the things.


Not an argument again.


Not an argument. Stating, "you are doing x" is not an argument for x. You've given no argument about how some meaning M1 equivocates with some other meanings that you are using {M2, M3, …M(n)}. To say I'm equivocating is to deny one of the main philosophical meanings of objectivity: iep.utm.edu/objectiv/

At this point, if you were actually philosophically honest, you'd say what you mean by objectivity at this point by offering up some M(n) rather than have others assume the common philosophical terminology. You are actually intellectually as bad as the pomo types, and a bit of a fucking slimeball to be honest with a lack of introspection.


Still skirting around the issue.

Not responding to the rest of your post, since you couldn't even make a case for (1) to (3).

managers are workers. owners are not. in most places the owner doesn't even work there.

Nice spook :^)

wouldnt a model citizen be one who always upheld the right ideals?

and something isnt right because its fallacious.eat shit and die. that is the lone rock upon which all sophists stand

Nothing I said assumes (1) to (3) are true, you fucking retard. Read it again, and more carefully this time.

Education is still necessary, and as someone who has worked alongside the poorly educated, they are often quite intelligent about their work

Economics doesn't work the same in a moneyless society, things will be valued on a different scale

Not a problem

Sure they can, it's basic catalogging and placing orders as needed. The people of low IQ I worked with were totally capable of that.

No profit to be made beyond the product of their labor.

Nobody will pay, and if that happens they get replaced and given another job.

Stop falling for bait you utter retards.

Why can't we steal what this other guy expended resources and exposed himself to risk to create? Your ideology can only work in a society that already exists and enjoys material success because your ideology is basically taking from the productive and successful to give to the lesser capable individuals.

The only important thing about spooks is that they do not control you.

FRESH OFF THE PRESS BOSS!

Fuck off back to Holla Forums you tard.

Will this post usher in a new era of amicable Holla Forums-Holla Forums relations and cross-board collaboration?

Nigger, did you even read your shit before posting?

No, I think you need to read more carefully and understand the difference between truth, semantics, reference, and argument. Pretty clear you have no idea.

Here is how the discussion went you philosophical rube and sophist shitbag:


I think we are done here. You aren't on my level, you refuse to support your positions, and you pretty much spit out terminology without thinking about the terminology means and the consequences for your own claims.

Go back to Holla Forums you intellectual rube.

this meme needs to end. literally any half-brain dead autist can take risks. a computer program can take risks. workers can take risks.

lol
Capitalism also doesn't exist in a vacuum. Before it there was feudalism, where certain families got a head start. Inheritance laws have kept this trend up, so that your family's wealth tend's to have a lot more to do with your success than you're actual work. Not to mention, there is an inherit bit of luck that's involved in any market.

Then why aren't all these workers going out and starting their own cottage industries? Selling their services as freelance contractors? Is it because that requires taking risks, investing resources and labor which may not bring back a return while selling one's labor to the business owner for a wage ensures a guaranteed return on that labor and time expended?


So all they're going to get for their labor is the product of their labor which they then get to try to sell on the open market, but there is no open market so they barter it for what they need from workers at other factories or does the state manage this and take a hefty cut to wet its beak?

t. Tankie

Sure, as long as they don't make everything about their sex change and they actually do some fucking work

Nobody on Holla Forums that isn't новыйтоварищaя cares about identity politics. It will all go away when systemic disparity goes away.

You're correct, there's this whole web of historical action from which current society and wealth configurations spring and what you're saying is we should take from those lineages which were the most successful and give to the ones which were not because that would be fair and nice somehow according to your weird theories which are somehow simultaneously materialist but also metaphysical and idealistic?

Fixed it and added some more terrible images.

See what I think we should do is just take the ill-gotten gain the Jews and their shabbos goyim stole from us and restore that wealth to the nation, and by the nation is mean the white American nation and the European nations for the good of our volk.

How are you this lacking in self-awareness

Lol I'm telling it to you straight, nobody wants anything to do with your shitty board or subverting it because we get banned on sight. Plus we're not a hivemind and even if the OP actually was talking about raiding your board and not when you come to our board or we encounter each other on Twitter he'd be the only one.

You actually make a fairly decent point in that the far right is generalized as the "alt-right" mouth-breathing retards both at large and by Holla Forums. However, every caricature has basis in reality and most of the arguments are fundamentally the same even if not everyone is making them (ie "muh dog breeds", "look at these crime stats", "102GB folder of black penis")

Rhodesia failed because the West backed Mugabe instead of our boi because Russia backed him, and I don't know about the sit in Eastern Europe but at least in the West and the Orient (and South America) the new left is very close.

Well now this is interesting. So by this logic, the Rothbards should get to keep their financial empire because they've earned it? This isn't a matter of fairness. There's no logical reason to expect that lineages determine success and productivity in an over-determined world. Therefor, if we are truly looking for an efficient system and meritocracy every one should start off as equals.

I was merely pointing out the idealism of your own arguments.

LOL, when leftists get absolutely butt-blasted and eradicated in argument, hallucinations of how morally and intellectually better than everyone is what you resort to.

PS You actually have to be good at what you do to signal prestige.

Anyway, I'm done here, since your substance-less arguments are now winnowed down to one-liners. Your intellectual house of cards has fallen down. You can't support your claims. You runaway from any sort intellectual virtue of being clear and spelling out what you mean.

Protip: re-reading something doesn't make your arguments right, if I've already shot them down with argument myself, which I did. Perhaps, again, PHIL101 is best for you. Bye now.

Under capitalism, not enough resources. Under communism, nothing.

Under capitalism, certification costs money. Under communism, nothing.

Hence the barbed hook of capitalism. "You want to be sure your family is fed, yes? THEN WORK FOR ME, WAGE SLAVE!"

Under communism the individual's risk is nothing beyond the wasting of resources, but since education will be free there is no reason to attempt something before being trained for it

Yes

No market, no selling

Even bartering isn't going to exist. Everyone contributes to the communal stockpile, everyone gets what they need from the communal stockpile. It's like shopping, only you don't give anyone paper.

No state, no masters, nothing is centralized. It's all networked like pic related. The community makes the product, the community enjoys the product.

This is what divide and conquer looks like. They instantly jump into a plan of action, with the uncontested and unspoken implication of combativeness, hostility, and war-like tones from "the enemy". This is to serve only one purpose- to subversively (and subconsciously) instill the idea of a false dichotomy. Often times, it comes with an otherwise reasonable plan and set of actions- ones that can't really be argued with on a surface level, so that dissenters look merely like typical naysayers.

Leftypol are a bunch of commie pinko faggots. Nobody fucking cares if they're trying to subvert Holla Forums because Holla Forums has had its way of dealing with their ilk for years. The only thorn in Holla Forums's side will be board administration (see: ye olde halfchan /new/), and that's been a struggle for years.

Now watch, as the D&C shills will again attempt to divert the discussion back to "Holla Forums vs Holla Forums". These same people are likely posting similar threads on Holla Forums

The point I'm making isn't that "Ignore the derail and get back on track" is a bad idea. It's that the whole thread is predicated upon the idea that "Holla Forums, your enemy is Holla Forums!! go fight THEM!!". Everything else in the thread is basically worthless to the D&C shill, but the implication is extraordinarily important.

What about goods that arent necessarily produced? Like antiques. Their value comes from their age. A medieval suit of armor in scrap is like 50 dollars. But go try and buy one for that, see what happens. Same goes for all artifacts. What of those?

This is a war faggot, against your stupid ideology. The way you say "we", representing your hole. I should have been clearer, I wish you would just die. Whether it's CNN, some tranny at a protest, or you. If you all ceased to exist, I would jump with joy.

If it's your great-grandmother's heirloom, keep it. It's not going to bring you any additional status, but it's a nice trinket all the same.

If it's a historical artifact, into the museum it goes for everyone to enjoy.

/r/ing the pics and vids

We only compete because you seek competition. We would be perfectly willing to collaborate in order to overthrow capitalism. But only capitalism, we will have no part in your war on genetics. Though perhaps when international communism is achieved, the disparity that caused your war will cease.


What a coincidence, we hate Corporate News Network too

What a coincidence, we hate liberal SJWs too

Why do you attack a potential ally?

Yeah no. You're the one trying to signal intellectualism.
What set off this whole thing was my simply correcting someone that the concept we choose for convenience to label with the word "class" is a different concept than the colloquial meaning of "class."


The "objectively right" way to approach "class" the fuzzy metaphysical concept? No. that concept is irrelevant.
"Objective" in the sense that you can apply a suitably chosen definition consistently and completely to partion everyone into the groups "proletariat" "bourgeoisie" and "neither"? Yes.

Your entire position is based on a wilful or stupid misreading of my original point.

And your nodd uh arbumend xDD in seems to miss entirely the fact that you've done nothing to argue/show anything I've said assumes premises (1)-(3). Hence self-awareness. (In fact, it doesn't.)

The world you want to create is similar to what AnCaps want to a certain extent. It is like a tower of cards. Sure it looks nice from afar, but a little nudge would bring at all down to zero. It is voluntary society organized strictly without capital. Then you have voluntary society organized strictly with capital. Id like to see how much of a difference it makes in practice.

Lets say the dozens of Communist countries that have existed werent actually "real Communism". The best example I usually get out of you folks is the Paris Commune from 1870. But that lasted like 5 weeks and wasnt even entirely horizontally organized. I often hear lots of criticism that NS Germany lasted only 12 years, but 5 weeks? Jeez.

If I ruled the world I would take a bunch of Ancaps and put them on a handful of Pacific islands. Then I would take a bunch of Communists and put them on a handful of Pacific islands. I would entertain myself just by watching the various groups.

The Ancaps would form hierarchies that ranged from wealthy barons with successful monopolies to debt slaves that are little more than human chattel to be used and thrown away. Business would be booming, but without concern for anything but maximized profit pollution actually would become a problem as all the water sources would be dumped in. Food also would be made solely for profit, so the wage slaves would get a slop of cheap chemicals instead of genuine nutrition. The NAP would be violated, war and chaos and famine would ensue, and even the rich on top would topple to extinction.

The communists would form horizontal cooperation to ensure nobody fell too low, and every worker would be incentivized to make their production of the highest quality, as they would be directly enjoying the fruits of their labor. Because they did not compete and seek to outdo and undo each other, the world would be relatively peaceful. Because profit was not their motive, they would ensure the sources of life they drew from would not be polluted.

Communism was tried successfully in Jamestown. Though many died in the first year due to lack of preperation for the winter and malaria (a common circumstance of the times), the second year they learned of the benefits of cooperation, and their success is celebrated every November to this day.

Then there's Kerala, which I posted here:

Yeah, for siding with Trotsky. Holla Forums can acknowledge that Jews are not a hivemind.

Lol I thought we were not much to fight against, apparently I don't give us enough credit.

Holla Forums greattst countrey and our growth rate is much higher than yours for a reason

Don't act like the reds weren't getting rolled over right up until Lend Lease started propping you up.
The Soviet Union was, and always had been, reliant on Wall Street and American capitalist industrial power.
Imagine if you assholes actually believed this principle, you would have given up right after the Paris Commune fell, and the world would be a lot better off.
Is this what you actually believe? Lel.

aren't sjws typically far left? Am I missing something or is the left eating itself like panicked rats jammed in a small box?

A commie is never an ally, only a subversive.

The USSR was a spook tbqh fam.

The type of "left" which SJWs are is not the type of left which we are.
cf.
They're diametrically opposed ideologies, in a sense

(Chezcked)
Shameless self check for the dual dubs, and a sage for the shittiest thread of the week.

Marxism is a retarded theory with more holes than swiss Cheese. The entire justification for communism is the "labour theory of value", which can be debunked in a matter of minutes.

really, because it seems that all the objections were settled in this thread
see

this string of replies.

ref.
Can you demonstrate a "hole" in the actual theory, meaning something other than "the concept he labels 'value' is not equivalent to the concept we label 'utility' "?

That just reads as a mindless spew of word salad

The labour theory of value is bogus because it assumes the value of labour is inherent to the labour itself. Labour, like most other things, is simply another commodity whose value is determined by the market within which it is traded/sold. When a "capitalist" pays a worker, he is not paying "less" than the "true value" that worker has produced, since the value of said labour is always subjective and dependent on the context of the market. Whatever that labourer is paid is exactly what their labour is worth in the context of the market they reside in. No more, no less

This is why Marx's theory was entirely incorrect. It tried to operate under the assumption that labour itself was inherently valuable and said value could be "skimmed" off by the employer rather than being just another commodity that can be bought/sold within a free market.

So this is why /lit/ has become so unbearable?

Now I just want to go back and bump every thread they try to stirnerpost. God, I always hated the stirnerfags, now I know why.

The infograph on shilling will be a handy resource OP, good thinking. Won't need to explain shilling every time.

No, it doesn't. Go over it again.
It'a nonsense to say that the theory of how cars work is "wrong" because the definition of "cars" doesn't agree with the definition of "carriages." That's basically what your argument is.

"Value" in the Marxist sense is not supposed to mean "utility." It is a different concept.

Haha, you drew first blood, you fucking idiot. With your "hurrr phil101" signalling that opened your commentary, as well as the other garbage in this thread. Then I showed how fucking idiotic your unsupported claims were. You are butthurt that someone is far above you, and you can't hang at this level, hence your impotent "arguing".


Again, you gave no argument for this. Saying C1, a concept that is by convention or has some pragmatic properties, is not the same as C2 (that you asserted as objective), is not an argument.

Hilarious to me that you make fun of "not an argument," while having to get someone to coerce one out of you. Goes to show how fucking sophomoric you are.


Oh wow, look who is equivocating terms now.

No fuckstick, I am talking about attributing the property of objectivity to the claims you made.

What you've just stated is not the same thing I'm asking. An approach to a concept is not predicating something to a concept. Lulz, what a fucking subhuman.


So you've stipulated that objectivity is a partitioned set that has the properties of consistency and completeness. This doesn't meet the semantic criteria for "objective" in any philosophical sense that I linked to, so throughout this thread you've been using a unique stipulative definition of your own without explicating it clearly. You are such a slimy fucking worm and have your head up your ass. If any definition and action merits "equivocation" it is just what you've done fuckhead.

Your entire series of claims is a metaphysical mess. Means of production is a concrete entity. This fits as a referent in your stipulative definition of "class." Then you have a second stipulative definition of objectivity, that apparently "class" is predicated upon. This in turn is about partitioned sets, which you haven't really shown how they are partitioned in any way, merely asserted that it is so.

So you have bullshit stipulative definitions all over the place underpinning your claims. Most of which are unsupported (AGAIN, RETARD).

You complain about pomo, yet you argue like one.


No, doubt it. You're an idiot from my interactions with you above. You aren't on my level. You lack philosophical depth. You can't string together a coherent argument. You can't define your terms. You don't have intellectual virtue. You are all around a sub-human LARPer dipshit and you should feel ashamed for how actually stupid you are.


I spelled that out here with the propositions (i) to (iv) moron:

The string of claims relates to the claims (1) to (3). If you can't see how the claims you've made in (i) to (iv) relate to the things I've asked you to show in (1) to (3), then you have no idea what you are on about. I've asked you how they fit in your claims. The arguments you provided were not adequate, as I showed above, and that you ignored most of them because you are an intellectual coward.

I'm sure your board frowns on drunkposting just as much as mine

Not drunkposting, just disappointed at how bad you are at getting your point across while acting that you aren't.

All your posts here are a mess. You argue very badly, and when counter-arguments or points are raised you resort to shitty one-liners like this or further bad argumentation. Trying to draw substantive argument and philosophical depth out of you is like drawing blood from a stone.

Though I am really done now, as I think you aren't here to actually get your point across, so much as act like a typical authoritarian scum leftist.

You're the one ranting incoherently, refusing to respond to the substance of anything I've said, and screeching "not an argument" whenever I clarify something you've obviously misunderstood. I am at an honest loss for how to deal with you. I don't think anyone can.

The thing is though, is that shitty one-liners are normally all it takes to debunk your arguments.

start by giving an argument

kek

Not an argument.

Sorry LarpJews, we're just not that into it. Pick a good god like Perun or some shit.


Fag


SPOOKBUSTERS

Seriously someone with photoshop do this


The sad thing is with Holla Forums we could actually find SOME common ground. We both like guns and all that, we both don't want to be censored/monitored, we both are faggots. but again, they'll never admit they are "Holla Forums" in tendencies because they are unique and different man, like totes not your typical leftist.


As a life long Weeb. We are the future. I'm a Theological Master and have a Bachelors in Economics. Guess what the joining factor of students is? Dragon Ball Z leftists hate it and it's so easy to say "Saiyan?" "Saiyan" "Okay we're friends" and then hit the gym.
Anime is important.


They must have their spirit broken to adapt.


Push it until he opens paint to make a comic.


You're a good guy.


Saved.


This. We need to learn their memetics then adapt them, then absorb them. We are the Saiyan elite.


Kill yourself f-f-f-faggot scum. You're adapting history through your own lense. You're the Ray Comfort of history. Dick sucker.


Baldy

Then explain the difference, retard. Go through each of my points and refute every one.

Yeah, no, we have: >>8315691

How new are you?