Maxwell Lord goes from comedic penny pinching lazy boss to mind controlling super villain who murders Ted Kord

DC's going to blame all of their recent troubles on the Watchmen. The saga is coming full circle.

It only confirms his opinion that mainstream comics are creatively bankrupt, as does this thread.

And you're here why, again?

…
That's all I got, everyone else taken the good on-

I'm just pointing out that a lot of these retcons are good examples of how the Big Two are currently devoid of imagination. Most of them were done purely for empty drama instead of their storytelling potential.

I feel you, crocodile. Killer Croc swings WILDLY in characterization, probably more-so than any other Batman villain. I don't know why this is.

We will never again see his awesome red shorts.

…I'm sorry, what did you say?

There's this shitty sentient bacteria from spess or some shit, and it tries to overtake the minds of everyone on Earth.
Mutants are resistant due to plot armour, so the bacteria makes humans hate mutants in the hopes of getting them all killed so it can 100% control over the planet.

It's called Sublime. Don't know if they are still using it, though.

The most hilarious thing is that, by bringing Parker back to life, it basically ruined Miles as a character, as the only thing interesting about him was his guilt caused in the wake of Peter's death. Up until then, he was a workable character with some promise. I thought that alone would kill Miles as a character, but they managed to one up it by making him part of the main Marvel universe fighting ALONGSIDE Peter.

ayyy lmao

An upgrade, if anything.

The Nora origin has never been workable beyond a maximum of one, maybe two stories, and it's not like the Pre-Flashpoint DC universe didn't basically ignore Victor's "muh Nora" characterization for 90% of stories with him in it. I give props to Snyder for at least trying here, even if he kinda failed.

Yeah, this one doesn't make sense to me either. If they wanted to give Calendar Man superpowers, give him something cool. Instead, he's basically the same, except now he dies and is reborn every years because muh Snyder symbolism.

I miss funny Joker. Heath Ledger's "le edgy Joker" ruined everything.

There's nothing wrong with metahuman mutant cannibal Killer Croc, just let him keep his smarts. But no, because of fucking Bane he had to be relegated to the "superpowered dumbass" pile.

I bet she used some sort of psychic mind fuckery to make him gay.

Him being dumb could work if his condition made him dumb over time but he starts out smart.

Reminds me of the time Nora Freeze was cured of her disease in the Lazarus pit but she went insane, gained fire powers and hates Victor.

Here's a comic for your entertainment. illuminatingcomics.tumblr.com/post/126166886105/i-say-what-what

No he wasn't. He was always bland as shit with literally no personality. His entire super hero career was him repeatedly doing generic crime fighting shit while running into ultimate Peter Parker's old friends and loved ones and all of them INSTANTLY falling in love with him and telling him that "He's exactly what peter would have wanted!" over and over. I fucking swear this shit happened every fucking storyline. It was fine the first time, but every time after was just retarded. It feels like they're desperate for people to accept him but they wont because he's got no personality or anything else worth a shit, not even a dysfunctional or broken family that Peter had.

That's why it's an origin. Fucking Batman's origin is not really workable beyond 'Finding the killer' and 'MY PARENTS ARE DEAD' type stories

Maximillian Zeus , from megalomaniacal tycoon with a god complex , to drug dealer , to IronMan rip-off

The Nora origin influences every subsequent type of story that can be told with Freeze. With it, Nora cannot be cured or Freeze is finished as a villain. Hence, you're stuck with only one type of story, which is Freeze being perpetually emo for Nora.

When?

With Maxie, one retcon I could sorta get behind is giving him electrical powers. Arkham Asylum already sorta hinted at this anyway.

it was in one of the animated series when they tried to re-brand him and gave him a power armor
how about no ,he may not have had any powers but at least back when he was this deranged megalomaniacal tycoon with a literal god complex it was sort of his own thing instead of just being as a generic character as Killer Frost

And Killer Frost is hardly generic.

Giant Yellow Space Bug

I wish this theory was true.

hue

Geoff Johns writes a fan letter to DC, which gets published in a comic, saying that he thinks 90s Superboy is a half clone of Lex Luthor. The answer is a definite no.

Skip forward about a decade, he's been hired by DC already, gets the chance to write for Teen Titans and decides to just go ahead and make Superboy a Lex Luthor clone because things just have to be his way.

I don't. Paul Dini himself fixed the Nora situation back in 1997 by killing her off and having Victor blame Batman for her death.

Revenge is a motivation that works very well for Mr. Freeze.

You mean this letter?

Xorn. Xorn being actual Xorn preteding to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn. And then Xorn 2 because everybody liked Xorn even though Morrison took the piss out of that by having retarded Cassandra Xavier not quite able to keep up with what was going on and complaining that she missed Xorn.

I didn't know about this before. Cage is fucking awesome.

Sorry, I realised I got REALLY sidetracked, so I moved that part to it's own post.
Based Cage, though.

...

The NEW Metal Men.

The Metal Men started to go downhill once Robert Kanigher left the book, so their answer was to make them human.

What a disaster that turned out to be.

That's why the comics killed her off. You don't know what the fuck you're taking about

Or the time Doc Magnus turned himself into a Metal Man named Viridium

That would've made some sense. Hal, even in his Parallax persona felt guilty for what he did, decided to subconsciously created an out for himself just to soothe his guilty conscience and since time got reset in Zero Hour…no one will ever know that Hal chose to be Parallax.

Honestly, I liked the Superboy being half Superman/half Luthor idea much better than either the half Superman/half random STAR labs scientist or not really Superman/all STAR labs scientist ideas

Yeah, I always figured Lex was so yandere for Superman that he had to make a test-tube gay ass-baby with him.

She was also dead in Mr. Freeze's first appearance, hence why he wanted to kill Ferris Boil.

Nora only works as a corpse.

That's the same time they retconned the Metal Men into once being real people, like Gold was Doc Magnus's brother.

The Big Two aren't very kind to concepts that deviate from the traditional superhero mold.

What the fuck, why?

Because Snyder.

wtf i hate zack snyder now

No, Scott Snyder.

Rachael Pollack erasing Crazy Jane from existence because she didn't like the character.
I mean, kill her off, kick her off the team, even a reboot without her, but flat-out making her entire life a hoax was a dick move.

Similarly, John Byrne making Steve Gerber's entire run on She-Hulk turn out to be a dream.
What cuck editor approves these things?

It's the editor's job to stop writers just screwing with each other to feed a grudge. If the editor isn't doing their job, you end up with situations like George Perez flipping out and leaving at the end of War Of The Gods, because he'd established that the Greek and Roman Gods were two separate pantheons, then the editors let another writer say the opposite the same week, which made Perez go ballistic and leave, understandable because he had taken on a huge workload handling a big crossover like that by himself, and usually the editors wait until the story is over before they tell you it didn't happen.

Same thing with Dwayne McDuffie and John Byrne fighting over She-Hulk, Byrne flipped out and left over having to keep aspects from McDuffie's Shulk GN in his book. If the editors are doing their job, the faggot writers aren't fighting.

...

To be fair, John Byrne is autistic. He's the same guy that fought with other Marvel talent over Doctor Octopus's chest dials until Steve Ditko got involved.

Nu52 had plenty.
I can't think of anything else for now.

To be fair, Byrne did that
A) Because Gerber made fun of him
B) Because Gerber was going to do the exact same thing to Bill Mantlo if he got the Howard the Duck rights back

Morrison didn't even really create him.

As someone who really liked Court of Owls, what was your problem with it? Was it the twist of Owlman possibly being Bruce's brother?

Just to clarify.

Hell, the major villain's twist that he's Bruce's brother? Hello, Dr. Simon Hurt aka Grant Morrison's excuse to use the insane brother of Bruce Wayne from the 70's

I don't mind Xorn or New X-men. You just have to imagine it as it's own big self contained story.
Xorn is actually Magneto? Cool twist.
So why's he hearing Xorn as a voice? Because of the Sublime he was inhaling.
It's only in the greater context of the universe does it get fucked up whether Xorn was himself or Mags

They should have split the difference and made Alan Scott old and gay.

No, I liked the Morrison stories by themselves, I object to Chuck Austen sticking his dick in and immediately fucking everything Morrison had done.

The weirdest part about that godawful event was situation regarding the Joker's face. Tony Daniel, who often gets the blame for cutting it off, said he originally just wanted the Joker "lobotimized", but DC thought it was too over-the-top.

Let that sink in for a bit. The DC editorial thought the Joker getting a lobotomy was too extreme compared to REMOVING HIS FACE.

This is why I've given up on mainstream comics.

Nice pasta, but the point stands.

The "lmao 3 jokerzzzz" storyline was a trainwreck. It was mentioned for all of 3 issues.

That bothered me. I grew up on those Justice League comics with Max as a lovable jerk. Seeing him made EEEVIL was shitty.

They took the interesting, doomed love between Bruce and Talia and turned it into something cheap and ugly.

Its because lobotomy's in the west are too much of a touchy subject to the public for reasons.

But you have a guy cut his face off? Tots normal and no one even gives a shit. It's not their face.

I can't remember to be quite honest. I just remember feeling disappointment when I read it all those years ago.

I could have lived with that if old meant he would have grown out of the phase where gay people feel the need to be in-your-face about their sexuality.
My main issue with his youth was I really enjoyed the JSA volumes. To have those characters ruined by de-aging them and making them 'rookies' again was pretty awful.

I didn't give a shit about joker's face. Most guys who gets to write Batman tries to make Joker edgier than his predecessor. What I found pants on head retarded was bruce telling him everyone's secret identities because 'lol he's locked up how's he gonna escape? He's crazy and he didn't really care, honest! I bet he'll forget by tomorrow night.'

Garth Ennis seems to have a thing for people having their faces torn off, I've found.

Julie Power being turned from the rational middle child who liked to read into a ditzy actress wantabee.

I don't even give a shit about making her gay beyond the crappy writing of her being gay. The only hint of sexuality she had before was a shitty comic in a shitty arc so bad they had to say a character was replaced by an alien horse double to get rid of (the story that did that was actually fun and good) and a drunk neighbor coming on to her (which she rejected) in a mediocre but harmless miniseries. The personality 180 just pisses me off.

Why? It's a unique twist on Superman's powers that presents lots of new solutions to problems.

World's Greatest Detective everybody.

I honestly can't fathom what anyone sees in Snyder's Batman. His Batman is as dumb as a post.

But he does hilarious things. Joking about sleeping under Gordon's bed and it turns out he actually does was kinda funny.

I can't believe no-one mentioned Catwoman becoming a carpet muncher. Or did DC retcon that travesty out?

Next thing you know, Talia al Ghul will have "experimented" in her youth because no hot comic ladies are allowed to just like dick.

Are we talking about how Duela Dent was retconned to have an extremely convoluted backstory in Countdown before being killed off?

Or are we talking about how in New 52 they made her some crazy sewer bitch who doesn't even have a name?

Snyder is an awful writer, but people who don't know anything think he's good because he exudes this sense of "really caring" about what he writes.

Well shit, a lot of people "really care" about what they write, that doesn't make them good. Teenage girls "really care" about their angst poems but they're awful.

Her *exclusively* being a lesbian, yeah that makes no sense. But being bisexual? Nah, that totally is fine.

It seems every change they make to Catwoman is the worst. She's either got to be an anti-hero, or is doing it because of a man, or she's Batman's fawning cock-sleeve. It's like they just can't have her be Batman villain like she used to, with the greed and egotism, except with a thing for Batman and enough smarts that it made Batman's dick hard.

I've read the Golden Age comics, I've watched the 1966 tv show. Catwoman is a great villain, so why can't they write her as such? For all their sjw bullshit, are they intimidated by a villain who's a cock-tease and places her criminal career just above jumping on Batman's bone? Because that's what it looks like to me.

Everyone I know who has read Batman in the past five years thinks he's the living end because of The Court of Owls.

New 52 I think is worse.

Why are Batman fans so stupid? I keep seeing youtube comments worshipping this guy when his stuff is garbage.

I still think Jean was just trolling him, like when the trolls convinced Chris-Chan he was a tranny.

I think it would be hilarious if Bobby and Hank hooked up, with the way Emma was telling Hank that as a telepath and the X-Men's sex councillor, she could state unequivocally that he wasn't gay.
That's be like Jean and Emma as in-universe fangirls shipping yaoi boyboy luvluv.

It's because 90% of Batman fans are casual filth. They know nothing about the character's history outside of wikipedia articles, click-bait lists, and the Nolan movies.

Pretty fucking accurate. Same can be said for the now dwindling mainstream comic audience.

We can have a whole other thread about how the big two basically said "fuck it" to casuals and doubled down on the fanboy bullshit hard in the early 2000's.

It was a horrible time.

It's not completely their fault. Batman has so many retcons and canons that following it seriously is stupid and pointless which is why so many people have moved onto manga and anime which is generally extremely strict with its canon and storyline.

No he doesn't. Of the trinity of DC superheroes, only Batman kept his bronze age and a handful of his silver and golden age stories in continuity. He's probably the least retconned of the three.

I remember all those miserable faggots who shat on Brave and the Bold's Joker. "THAT'S NOT HEATH LEDGER"

Of course its not you fucking sows.

Why do you keep doing it?
Don't even pretend it's more than one user, because you keep saying the exact same line.
>>>/a/

If someone tells you manga or anime is better, chances are they know nothing about the comics they're shitting on.

or perhaps they're wondering why would someone read the comicbooks when the comicbooks are only trying so hard to copy the movies?

Because he's right. Unlike western crap, japanese media isn't prone to insane reality warping retcons and remains consistent through and through. And if a new continuity is presented, its treated as a completely different reality without destroying the last one on a whim. The only exception to this is shonen trash that gets too popular, like Dragon Ball and Naruto.

ok, I crossboard and /a/ hates anime.

>>>/a/

Anime and manga is so consistent because it's all by the same people over the entire lifespan of the franchise.
Naruto and Dragon Ball got others in to help, and it turned to shit. Whilst One Piece has kept the majority of people onboard and has gone into however many episodes/chapters.
Comics, on the other hand, just license, for all intents and purposes, their characters made by others onto other writers/artists to recreate. Lots of creator-owned comics are great and don't get messed with.

Lots of western shows/comics that keep their creators turn out really good, like Samurai Jack is turning out with almost the exact same cast and crew.

You're just cherry picking examples from either side to make yourself look correct.

We do, but that's beside the point. Anime now is just as shitty as cartoons, but at least we admit it (except for those maid dragon faggots) unlike you tumblr nose-loving fruits.

bump

but why?

Them trips!

Ignore him. He does it on every single thread.

Even worse is that she used Bruce's fluids to make Damien in a test-tube…

Hydra this, Hydra that, Hydra was behind SHIELD, Hydra was behind the Nazis, Hydra was behind Captain America, is there anything that Hydra wasn't behind? This is getting worse than the Illuminatus back in the 70's.

When did Hydra stopped being something like Cobra…and started being this behind the scene organization now?

...

A mistake from the beginning. Sniktbub has been an anchor around the neck of the industry since inception.

I have no problem with Catwoman joining Batman to fight a crazy evil dude (she just wants to steal shit), eventually becoming a better person, or taking a particular delight in stealing from people she deems evil, but having her start as an anti-hero is wrong.

Because a COBRA style terrorist group run by supervillains is too fun and exciting for modern superhero comics.

You don't wanna have too much fun in your superhero comics. You have to make room for boring soap opera plotlines and melodramatic brooding.

I think you might be exaggerating a little.

I don't know…Marvel's over-reliance of Wolverine is kinda true. Doesn't help that his fanboys are working the X-Books at times.

Well, yeah, it's become a problem. But Wolverine stories were good once.

Bane? >He is a big guy…..

The newfag is strong in this one.

I bought spiderman comics for years and this shit made me quit. Later on , I stopped buying marvel in it's entirety (except some re-editions of old good stuff) due to all the SJW crap.

I also pretty much quit reading Spider-Man because of OMD. The worst part is that it didn't just erase the marriage, it almost completely invalidated JMS' entire run, which I enjoyed. It demonstrated that there really is no point in following comic books if they're just going to retcon everything in a few short years.

You are seriously deluded.

By all means, proceed.

One more day, the shit story about how writers don't find couples interesting unless it's diversity couples and how single superheroes MUST remain single because writers are autists that can't into relationships.

I can speak only for DC. Dildo took an entire fanbase DC had been cultivating through the nineties and chucked it out to bring back DC as he remembered. You got old heroes replacing the new heroes, you got ten years worth of history undone, and there was now a horrible bastardized version of the Silver Age going on with non-stop rape and murder. It was the time when Doctor Light became best known as a depraved rapist and Ted Kord got straight up murdered.

It was a dark time. It was then I learned that comics are hell, and the devil of this hell is a creative tormentor. Just when I think things are the worst, things changed to be just as bad but in different ways.

That pic blows my mind.

...

You can have a Mad Hatter who fucks kids, or a Mad Hatter who fucks hats.

Damn Gale Simone for that.

What is the Mad Hatter's thing, anyway? He's obsessed with Alice in Wonderland and using mind control to do what – make people act it out?

Oh boy does the Mad Hatter have a problem.

See, way back when, there was a Mad Hatter character that appeared only once in Batman #49, October 1948. He was nameless and ultimately forgettable as the real focus of the story was Vicki Vale learning Batman's secret identity. That Mad Hatter wouldn't appear until 1981.

Later, in Detective Comics #230, April 1956, a new (and arguably better) Mad Hatter appeared. He was one of those great gimmick villains Bill Finger would come up with to tell stories focused on a theme. This Mad Hatter had a wild red mustache, was named Jervis Tetch, and was obsessed with hats, most of all adding Batman's cowl to his collection. He became a somewhat reoccurring rogue, using hats as weapons, and appeared in the 1966 Batman series played by David Wayne.

Then in 1981, Gerry Conway decides to bring the 1948 Mad Hatter back for some god damn reason, have that Mad Hatter claim to be the real Jervis Tetch, and basically steal the previous Mad Hatter's schtick, replacing the red mustache with an over-bite. However, despite Conway declaring his Mad Hatter killed the previous one, the real Mad Hatter appeared one last time in Detective Comics #573, April 1987.

After that, everything falls to shit. The character gets pulled between two gimmicks, the Alice in Wonderland gimmick, which as very little to work with, and hats, which most people are embarrassed to admit is better. This situation leaves myself annoyed, as Bill Finger came up with a great theme for a super-criminal and I really like the idea of a completely insane villain obsessed with head-gear.

At least James Tucker had the good taste to include him in Batman: The Brave and The Bold.

So how many times have they tried to pull this shit? I know they used it during the Black Glove a while back, but I can forgive that because Batman turned into an insane rainbow LSD laced hobo of vengeance towards the end and it could have been entirely falsified.

You completely read that wrong.

Even having Alice Mad Hatter act like David Wayne would work. A British foppish gent- like a more subdued Mad Mod.

The character (and arguably most Batman villains) should have freedom of when they use their gimmick or not (so they don't have to carry the same ball).

One week he kidnaps a girl he thinks is Alice, the next he disguises as a legit businessman and sells fashion with spy cameras/wi-fi hijackers stitched into it. You'd never be sure if the villain that issue would be weird or deadly.

:^)

Taliah fits the bill now. Or so they think. Instead she's torn between serving daddy or being with bats.

Especially since (out of all of his rogues) he seems the most sane.
An intelligent man, driven by grief why any of us would do the same right? He's not insane at all!

And that's the appeal. His cold & calculating attitude makes it seem like he's in command of all his faculties. Yet- he goes to lengths that a lot of people would start to question themselves.

IIRC, some canon at some point hinted that Freeze found the cure for Nora ages ago, but his psychosis legitimizes excuses so that the chance of failure/death is too great. Or even a deep fear of her reacting to what he's become (physically and his actions). Puts a new spin on cold feet.

All Batman villains operate on themes which define their characters and crimes. The Joker has jokes, Two-Face has twos, halves etc., Catwoman has cats, and so on and so forth. It's what makes them fun to see Batman face all the time and provides an endless amount of material to pull stories from.

The Alice in Wonderland shit isn't enough to staple a theme to. You can do a thing about Alice, doormouses, or whatever, but it'll always lack the sheer versatility of hats. That versatility is a necessity when writing Batman's reoccurring villains.

Even BTAS came to realize that. By the second and the third appearances of the Mad Hatter, they'd shifted from Alice in Wonderland to hats.

In my opinion, you could do a lot with a villain obsessed with Alice in Wonderland – there's tons to play with in that material. Madness, language games, logic puzzles, chess, etc. It just never seems like the writers knew what to do with the Mad Hatter, and now I know why. I had no idea there were two completely different characters put into that role, but it explains a thing or two.

Oda was going to originally write OP as a series of novels. He's had the story penned out for years. This is in stark contrast to Bleach and Naruto.

Kishi wanted to write a story about wizards, but felt he couldn't after Harry Potter took off. Naruto was going to end with Pain, but Jump wanted to milk it some more with the Ninja War arc and the alien bullshit that followed. Now they're milking it with Baruto, but Kishi has largely stayed away other than to collect a paycheck for royalties. Kishi got a lot of outside help while writing Naruto too. Kishi started a family post-Naruto.

Kubo created Zombiepowder before it got shitcanned. He then created Bleach a year later. Kubo has a ton of issues. He's stated that he prefers to draw fashionable clothing, which is probably why trendy clothing has much greater detail in comparison to anything else that he draws. Kubo also loves to shit out characters whenever the writing gets hard. It's why there are so many useless characters in Bleach and why so many characters get pulled out of his ass to solve some problem Ichigo is having. Kubo is also a terrible writer and his pacing is awful. Does everyone still remember "The Heart" and troll Aizen? Kubo was planning to milk Bleach for another decade when Jump shitcanned him a second time. That's why the ending was so rushed. The last I checked, Kubo is just fucking around post-Bleach.

If comparing the fandoms of the Big 3. I'd say Bleach fans are probably the worst. There were a ton of people that continued to follow Bleach out of habit, but they were still aware of how shit it was. Then there were the fans that were far too delusional and aggressive when it came to defending Bleach. Naruto fans are super fucking autistic, but largely normies. You have faggots that named their kids Sasuke, but they never seemed as bad as Bleach fans. OP fans are usually pretty normal. You'll have the super defensive faggots, but they seem to be pretty rare. It helps that OP is well structured, because it means things were planned out long ago. The Fishman Island arc was trash, but it happens with a series that's been around for so long. Oda is also hardworking unlike faggots like Miura, who used to be hardworking, but got super lazy.

>>>/a/

I strongly dislike how modern writers tend to approach The Penguin as just a generic mobster who sits behind doing nothing while making cameos in the stories of other characters.
In fact as much as I like Chuck Dixon, I partially blame him for this since he was the one who introduced The Iceberg Lounge
Penguin has become defined by Lounge instead of the other way around.
Which isn't to say I disapprove of the idea of Penguin being written as an arms dealer kingpin. But the problem is that this became a way to write off The Penguin. The iceberg became his tomb, and he's now only threatening as someone who can pull the strings and sit back getting fatter.
When are we ever going to get another story like Pain and Prejudice ? Or The Penguin Affair ?
He is practically retired. Soon DC might even kill him off and replace him with a younger and prettier counterpart to cash in on the Gotham fanbase (they already introduced a son for him in Batgirl)

I like Poison Ivy's outfit.

Is his son also a criminal?

Yes.
His name is Ethan Cobblepot and his backstory is that Penguin banged one of his servants and then told her to fuck off, and when Ethan visited Penguin as an adult, Penguin told him to fuck off too and that he would never want to see him again.
Now Ethan wants to use his epic haxx0r skillz to take over Penguin's empire.
And his supervillain named is Blacksun.

Honestly, I feel the most sorry for Toriyama.
He's written a ton of one-shots and manga before and after Dragon Ball, but that's what haunts him. His most popular and also most shit story. It was clearly supposed to be another one-shot given the first arc is a parody of Journey to the West, but Jump decided to milk it. He goes for a few years, gets to the time skip and wants to stop it. Jump forces him to milk it some more. And from then on, basically every arc has a clear ending that usually has Goku dead or missing, specifically because he keeps trying to end it, and Jump continues to force him to keep going. He deals with this shit for a goddamn decade before FINALLY wrapping it up, and he still has to deal with the movies that are made. The most he does after that is make some designs for GT, but he's basically done. He can work on other shit. He makes some good shit, too, like Jaco and Sandland, but over course no one pays attention to them.
Decades pass, and everything is over. And then someone makes such a terrible shithead awful movie, Evolution, that angers him so deeply that he fucking revives the series with a movie just to show that Dragon Ball is better than that. And it's like that just rewound some fucking curse he'd been plagued with, because then we got Toei butchering it, and then butchering his idea for Resurrection of F further, and then forcing him to go on to make Super, where they literally just tell him what to write and edit it however they want so they can put all kinds of fan-pandering shit in there while he takes all the blame.

The worst part is that everyone hates him and blames him for the mistakes of Jump and Toei. He's a brilliant writer if you look at all his other stuff. But when his editors and companies get involved, things go to hell, and he gets blamed. I think it's the one fandom I know of where people just outright hate the creator. Every little thing is blamed on him. I've seen people blame Super's animation on him.

Being Toriyama is suffering

He has a family, a decent amount of money coming in from work he basically finished 20 years ago and gets whatever other gag manga shit he wants published as long as he helps whore out DB some more, the only reason I could see him being unhappy is if he really really cared what DB fans thought and I doubt that.

So he stole that name from a criminal organization in Star Wars? Also, he looks kinda gay.

Honestly, yeah…Toriyama had done a lot of good stuff before. I still had Wonder Island (a collection of one shots before he made Dragon Ball, even had some behind the scenes anecdotes and such) and it's pretty good, some should've been a full series (Chobit and Pola & Roid should've been a full series, damn it!) but yeah, as a long time DB fan, I don't really think Super is a good move (Ya kinda noticed the rot around the Majin Buu saga which I still like but it should've ended with Mystic Gohan kicking Buu's ass, hell, story arcs past the the time skip was supposed to lead up to Gohan taking lead)

You wanna know why it didn't?
Because Japan's DB fans hate Gohan, and his editor forced him to change it so Goku was the one who saved the day.

The ass-rape that is the Cell saga is also all his editor's fault. He made 19 and 20 (an interesting concept; the characters would have to fight using their minds rather than raw strength to avoid continuously powering up their enemies until they end up with the fate they had in the F Trunks timeline), but his editor told them they were too ugly. He made 17, 18, and 16, and his editor's response was 'this is all you've got?' So he made Cell. His editor thought he was still too ugly. He remade Cell. His editor STILL thought he was too ugly. So he made Perfect Cell, and that's when his editor was satisfied.

Also, Super Saiyan only exists because he felt bad for the assistant that has to ink everything week after week.

If he only had the kind of balls Yukito Kushiro has, to tell his company to go to hell. I honestly think Kushiro would gnaw his own leg off like a fox in a trap to escape a bad publisher.

Keisuke Itagaki would probably just straight up murder his editors if they fucked with his shit. He's one scary motherfucker.

Of course it's a write-off. Take a moment and think about if they gave The Joker the kind of power the Penguin has. In control of his own mob, with plenty of money, weapons, goons, and connections to allow him to do whatever he wanted.

Now remember the Penguin was tied with The Joker for Batman's #1 foe and you'll start to realize the Iceberg Lounge was an excuse to get rid of him.

Penguin's gonna be double fucked in the future if DC does what I think they're gonna do with Bane, which is to make him Wilson Fisk 2.0 except gone international.

Batman's old rogues need a serious back-to-basics approach. Joker needs to go back to the classic, comedic, mischievous version, Riddler needs to go back to being the one guy in the bunch who actually doesn't want to kill or maim people, Penguin needs to go back to being the oafish looking dork who is actually super-deadly, Catwoman needs to go back to villainous thief with the occasional conflict in morals, Mad Hatter needs to go back to fucking hats instead of teenage girls dressed as Alice, Poison Ivy needs to go back to flirty eco-terrorist with sexual tension with Batman, Two-Face needs someone to actually define his character for once, and Harley Quinn needs to die.

I wouldn't say this is true.
Penguin is on the top 4 Batman villains, for sure. And he used to be the most popular and consistently used villain after Joker, sure. He had a very strong claim for being Batman's 2nd greatest enemy next to Catwoman (which they started to write less and less as a villain with time).
But I don't think he was really never tied with The Joker, he was always Number 2. Not that there's anything wrong with that, since part of Penguin's appeal was that he seemed harmless and was goofy but in actuality he was very intelligent and dangerous.

Not at first it wasn't.
The Iceberg Lounge was a setting created by Chuck Dixon to help him write his Penguin stories. He was the one who started to write The Penguin as a more serious mobster who acted behind the scenes (even fooling Batman). But it was still The Penguin, and this helped to create the way for future iterations which would reshape and define the character (Batman Returns, TAS).
The Iceberg Lounge was cool at first. But the problem is that it overstayed it's welcome and became an excuse for DC and it's writers to write him off because they are afraid of being original for once.

I'd say that's pretty much close to what they are already doing with The Penguin. He's pratically retired and whenever he does show up, he's a short and fat Wilson Fisk.

I agree with this but DC also should at least try to keep in mind that these characters have tons of different interpretations and this is part of what makes them enjoyable.
DC should retire The Joker for at least a decade on the comics. Keep in the movies and cartoons and etc. But write him off for at least a couple of years. Force writers to be creative for once and use the dozens of villains in the Rogues Gallery instead of just writing Joker stories and half-assed attempts at being edgier than The Killing Joke. And then, when The Joker comes back, make a big event out of it and make us actually want to see him again.
I think even the normies that read comics are starting to get sick of The Joker.

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The problem is, I don't think Catwoman can anymore.

She's so firmly entrenched as the sexy femme fatale in a leather catsuit and with a whip in the public consciousness that casting her back in that cheesy purple outfit and making her command henchmen is going to cause a mass allergic reaction in fandom. Combine that with Catwoman's cancerous fanbase, which reacts to any attempts to move her in more interesting directions with outrage, and any pozz like pussy-licker Catwoman with cucked applause, and you're going to have a rough uphill battle.

Don't get me wrong, I think the way DC treats thievery as some sort of grey area when it comes to Catwoman is absolutely disgusting, but they've been doing it for so long that it's going to be hard to break the mold.

No, the Penguin was tied with The Joker, which made any time they teamed up fun and incredibly dangerous to Batman.

I've read the first appearance of the Iceberg Lounge, and it's a disappointing and lackluster Penguin story. You have a character that nearly killed Batman with a feather, robbed Ras Al Ghoul, was almost ruler of his own country, and Dixon has him taking two issues to realize that Batman works whenever he damn well pleases.

It's sad to see how far the character has fallen.

Toonami is allowed, fag. You the same bitch that got assblasted about Jojo reaction pics on that other thread?

He's getting assblasted all over this board anytime someone mentions anime.

I will never get over how Joker carried Robin up the ladder.

Any recommendations on Penguin Stories?

The Killing Peck
Love Bird
Undergroud Railroad
Joker's Asylum: Penguin
Penguin Triumphant
Once Upon a Midnight Dreary
And of course Pain and Prejudice

I'd also strongly recommend the Batman TAS episodes featuring him as well as the TAS comics like Birdcage (pic related)

Do you like the Penguin from The Batman cartoon? He seemed a lot more like the classic penguin.

...

FTFY

It probably is, let's not kid ourselves.

Batman #14 - "Bargains in Banditry"
Batman #17 - "The Penguin Goes a Hunting"
Batman #21 - "The Three Eccentrics"
Batman #25 - "Knights of Knavery"
Batman #27 - "The Penguin's Apprentice"
Batman #30 - "Back to the Big House"
Batman #61 - "The Mystery of the Winged People"
Batman #287 - #288 - "Batman-Ex – As in Extinct!" - "The Little Men's Hall of Fame!"
Detective Comics #99 - "The Temporary Murders"
Detective Comics #126 - "The Case of the Silent Song Birds"
Detective Comics #473 - "The Malay Penguin"
Showcase '94 #7 - "Cracks"
World's Finest #49 - "White Feather for Batman"

Here's a list. It's all over the place.

You can't stop it.

….yes pls