Can a fellow lefty that considers "women" to be almost solely those that possess two xx chromosomes play in your anti idpol sandbox? Especially given those that are most vociferous in denouncing alleged TERFS are also equally vociferous when it comes to defending identity politics?
See: Great r/socialism purge of 2015
are you fucking stupid
Yeah, you can pretty much believe anything on that issue, without making it the focus of your struggle and the end all be all of your theory. Thus making it "anti-idpol" in my opinion.
trans people make up, what, 0.01% of society? who cares either way? TERFs are idpol
You are the worst of the idpol scum.
Fuck off back to tumblr.
So how is someone whose take on gender was the dominant one right up to the 90s "the worst of the idpol scum"? And of course that someone is not saying that gender trumps class.
Is saying that if those who were born female should be allowed to associate with others like themselves – if that is what they want – that far beyond the pale?
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Eh TERFs are honestly some of the worst feminists, but I'll admit that they do tend to be smarter than your average third waver. Their views are terrible and anti hedonist as fuck though.
you're spooked about something that's barely relevant. just give up and move on to things that matter.
We've already got a bunch of disruptive feminist shills here, what's one more going to hurt?
OMG have they been calling you hurtful names? You must be so triggered!
Wtf is a TERF symp
Someone who posts hateful links like this:
commondreams.org
Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist sympathiser, I would assume.
What he said
No.
TERFS and SJW only disagree about one specific thing (trannies) but agree on everything else in regards to le evil white man etc.
They're not really relevant these days and get BTFO by trans people and scientists all the time. So, sure, join a losing "battle."
TERFs are the worst pieces of shit I've ever encountered
The "third wave intersectionals" are worse than the TERFs. Say what you like about Cathy Brennan and her gang but they will at least openly declare their position, propose concrete steps to achieve their goals and will defend their viewpoints. The "third wave intersectionals" just play games with motte and bailey tricks and semiotics nonsense because they don't even have the basic respect for other humans to answer your challenges to their rhetoric.
You must live a sheltered life.
Well I've never really encountered notsocs or ancaps irl, so that skews it a little bit
Cathy Brennan is a fake goth.
Who cares how blatant something is unless it regards irony? Besides, she's been caught lying or exaggerating on multiple accounts about statistics of women's violence, particularly for laws protecting rights to use public bathrooms and locker rooms putting cis women at greater risk of predation by men.
Yeah, her biggest concrete solutions have been to team up with the religious-right and harass trans teens already on suicide watch, contacting trans employers to get them fired, and warn of the coming "lesbian annihilation" at the hands of queers.
One person holding an intellectual position behaves questionably. Intellectual position and every person that holds that position or sympathetic to it utterly discredited.
News at 11.
She likes her Joy Division.
I like people to speak plainly and have no time or regard for the sort of dissembling worm who comes from tumblr…
She is a feminist, cooked numbers and dishonest "studies" are mandatory in that ideology. Not that feminists are alone in such, admittedly.
Yes. "Third wave intersectionalists" haven't even got that far. All they've done is get a few non-entities fired (the greater proportion of them their own supporters who made a linguistic slip and were cast out of the coven). "Queer" is just a moniker for "straight girl wanting a label to co-opt the oppression others", anyway.
Now fuck off and don't talk to me again, you lying piece of shit, Vampirella.
Trans people are irrelevant and mentally ill. Why should we care about them?
k
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Actually, I have to ask why you keep comparing her to waves of feminists. We're talking about someone's "basic respect for other humans" not other humans per se. But you seem to be more concerned with mudslinging and nonarguments.
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TERFs BTFO
This thread is cancer.
Hopefully someone will rape some sense into you soon.
:\
:/
:|
's more like I don't care, anyway
no…
This people should go to the fucking wall tbh
The same excuse could be used to justify slavery or disenfranchisement of women.
Fuck off with your mott-and-bailey shit. That is the most deceitful misrepresentation of TERF ideology I've ever seen.
Libertarian socialists have no problems with free association, but you actually want the opposite. You want to restrict the rights of people based on their sex and gender identity.
If tumblr is too leftist for you, you could always try fucking off to Holla Forums instead. They'd welcome you.
Idiots like yourself would support entitled and whiny transgendered people who treat gender like it's a fucking feeling. "I was feeling male when I went to bed and now I feel like a black woman".
Sounds like you're a little envious.
"If "transwomen are women- end of the discussion" then the inverse is true and women are transwomen and women can lay claim to the transgender male experience and speak for and as transwomen. Why should transwomen exclude women from transwomanhood, this is cissexist and wrong.
There is no shared transwomen experience, to say that transwomen are males that have altered their body with hormones and surgery isn't true as that ignores the transwomen who choose not to alter their bodies. To say that transwomen are males that choose a feminine appearance ignores the transwomen who are butch lesbians and are misgendered by ignorant cis people and called men. The only thing that makes a transwoman a transwoman is that one identifies as a transwoman. To say that one must be assigned male at birth to be a transwoman is absurd as "maleness" is a cissexist concept that tries to impose a rigid and false binary on what a transwoman should be. Transwomen is an identity, to say otherwise is to reduce being a transwoman to being a walking penis and that is biological essentialism. Women ARE transwomen, we are women born transwomen! (WBTW)."
Got a migraine yet?
TE is fine, if you don't bring it into party agendas.
The RF is the real problem.
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I literally don't give a fuck what people have between their legs or what they want to call themselves.
If you do give a fuck about that, then you're part of the problem. Go and scream at someone for using the "wrong" prounouns rather than shitposting here.
Today's lesson: Identity Politics are a Bad Thing. Unless of course you are someone with XY chromosomes experiencing gender dysphoria. You go snowflake.
No kind of F can ever join the anti-idpol alliance
The worst of both worlds.
TERFs are no different from trans, extremely spooked by their own genitals.
Banishing TERFS and Social Justice Trans? Works for me.
Well we are primarily concerned with economics and the influence class structure has on society (at least we'd like to think so).
At most we discuss post-steuctralist concepts that can be interpreted as discussing identity politics. But if you don't start shit then we don't mind.
Question though: Why do you put women in quotation marks but then clarify what you mean as women I.e. those with exclusively XX chromosomes? Are you saying that they aren't women in a sarcastic manner?
What about lower class trans women?
They suffer from horrific hate crimes and discrimination at an alarming rate. It's pretty sad what happens to them. I don't see what that has to do with that guy's post though. It really just supports his green text.
This is absolutely true, and in fact one of the classic dialectics which expose the sand foundation of "identity" as a social force.
Idpol necessarily and invariably produces contradictions. The intersectionalist response of codifying as correct the "unintuitive" results of mashing together mutually contradictory identarian frameworks is hence seen to reject dialectics as an engine or truth wholesale.
The conflict between TERF-ism and intersectionality can again be examined dialectically. One a priori denies that the observed counterexamples and curve-balls to its worldview exist, while the other post hoc denies their nature. The synthesis leads to reexamination of their mutual false identarian premises, or to the reliability of material/empirical evidence. Both perspectives are thus not logically consistent with dialectical reasoning AND materialism at the same time and can be seen to repudiate Marxist philosophy.
I don't think dialectics is a particularly useful approach for analyzing most situations.
Personally I think that language is just flawed. Labels like "trans", "TERF", and even "person" are just approximations. They don't actually correspond to reality - they just describe ideas which are sort of similar to reality most of the time. If you try and do reasoning with those approximations then there's no guarantee that your conclusions will be valid in the real world.
Basically you should embrace mereological nihilism and see things for what they really are.
Terfs/RadFems are sad that they're less desirable than even the most grotesque looking trans woman.
Terfs/RadFems are autistic resentment personified. They are the female r9k. As bad as you think Ess Jay Dubyas are, theyre a huge improvement over the the grimy spergfest that was the second wave (which terfs are the modern extension of).
Are you this spooked by trannies? Really fam?
Not an argument.
That said, I think that we should stay away from the TERF/tranny slapfight. Being transgender is very clearly a mental illness. I don't mean that as an insult, that is just the only classification that it can honestly fit into. Idpol wants to build an ideology around this mental illness, while TERFs turn this group of mentally ill people into a boogeyman designed by the patriarchy to destroy muh true feminism.
neither is le bald man maymay
supporting mental health rights is actually useful though, and actual trannies (not special snowflake teenagers) won't be bothered at all
This is my point. That identarian labels are not a solid foundation from which to understand the world the way the study of material and objective things is.
It's too bad "mental illness" has a negative connotation when applied here (schizophrenics' subjective experiences are "wrong," anxious and phobic people's fears are unfounded.)
Rejection of "biological determinism" in the sense that psychology is deterministic rather than probabilistic and statistical is of course important. Calling upon XX and XY to uniquely, consistently and completely determine the subjective experience of gender is silly. Molecular biology doesn't work that way - you can't put "genes for a trunk" onto a giraffe and get a giraffe with a trunk because there are no genes for a trunk. What you can do with genes is chemistry, they code for proteins and statistical certainty (say, PV=nRT or getting drunk) emerges from the law of large numbers on several probabilistic quantum-scale interactions (gas collisions or ethanol binding to GABA and various other receptors respectively) under the influence of numerous other biochemical/biodynamical factors. Taking caffeine with alcohol will often lead you to drink until you puke, as drinking with benzodiazepines or opioids will often "procedurally sedate," anesthetize or kill you by respiratory depression. Huge number of moving parts - we haven't even chemically solved "treatment-resistant" depression yet because depression is not a single mechanism and lacks a distinct pathophysiology, though we have evidence the regulation of 5HT, NMDA, AMPA and kappa-opioid receptors have some influence on the condition.
So their issues are being buried by the middle class rhetoric
But aren't they also being buried, trivialized and ignored by the reactionaries and the anti-trans autists?
TERFs are trash. They can be so hateful.
A friend of mine has schizophrenia diagnosed and she also has had gender dysphoria. Another friend of mine is diagnosed bipolar and he has gender dysphoria too. Both of them had it come up as more an issue after recent trauma.
Yes that was his point. TERFs are reactionary middle class white women hiding behind a mask of "radical feminism" because they feel their muh privileges are under attack by transgenders who are viewed as being more "oppressed".
When the brain is fucked up there's usually more than one thing wrong with it. "Pure" mental illnesses with no comorbidities are actually quite rare. Schizophrenics oftentimes have autism, bipolars oftentimes have adult ADHD, anxiety and depression are so common it's a separate subdiagnosis.
This is one of the reasons why treatment is difficult and treatment resistance is common.
No mgtow flag? What a farce this is… guess I'll just use this one.
Rad-Fems are certainly less toxic than normie women and third-wave but that doesn't say much at all.
If you don't live in Saudi Arabia or some shit there is no reason to claim feminism is leftist.
Actually if you look it up you can see some studies suggesting psychosis can cause gender dysphoria but it's not alway the cause becaus anti psychotics dont work on them all, I think there i more than one form of it. some psychologists think gender dyphoria i a rare type of schizophrenia.
Actually from what I've seen they think transsexuals make a joke of womanhood and they think they support gender roles by conforming to the opposite sexes role. I agree with the later point but not how hatful they get about it. I've even seen some say things like " the neo vagina encourage rape"
Sounds good to me. They aren't fucking special because they were born with uteri.
Well they take it like they are parodying them how drag queens do.
I know, and I think it's funny.
Seconding this, a mgtow flag is in order.
What does mgtow even have to do with politics? It's just a bunch of sheltered manchildren complaining that they can't a girlfriend, like Tumblr for men.
MGTOW is like the male equivalent of separatist feminism but without the location based communities and replacing it with just a bunch of complaints on the internet which actually contradicts what it claims to be.
I think MGTOW and MRA have a lot of left/revolutionary potential, at least when compared to most groups. They have a healthy sense of entitlement, which is key.
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness
Being transgender in itself is not.
How? All they do is sit around and bitch on the internet
At least TERFs aren't trying to legitimize their mental illness (or at the very least their snowflake syndrom).
Holla Forumsyp please
Exactly like modern leftists then.
Trans people literally can't be Feminist since Feminism is about fighting gender roles and Transfaggots either recognize them as biological enough that you can be born in the wrong sex or natural and acceptable enough that they need to create and LARP on a new gender for every little trait in their personality, and hence they legitimize them.
All Feminists are TERFs
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The problem with feminism is that they don't show the same support for men who do not conform to gender roles. In fact a lot of them still think we aught to.
The problem with modern feminism, is it's full of girls with daddy issues and post menopause women that, JUST LIKE NAZIS AND POL, need a boogeyman to blame for everything wrong with their lives.
You know… Like most anarkids too…
no they don't. You have an opinionstube-tier view of feminism and need to read actual theory.
what is this fucking thread.
Let's see… Hey pol! What's the reason for all our problems?
"ZE JOOS!"
Yep. Not bad at all.
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This is exactly the argument the TERFs make, stupid.
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Not any TERF i've hard, they do exactly the opposite
I've seen them make the argument in the form that there should be no differences in gender expression between the sexes, if that's what you're claiming. Ultimately it's all the same dogfood, though, remove the social barriers on gender expression and the dysphoria will disappear. The transactivists I've seen simply won't have the implication that they just want to play dress up, pointing to their desires for physical modification.
this fuckin meme again
So they specifically emphasis the biological differences between men and women and seek to create a "cis-only" movement, complete with a lot of rhetoric about how men are evil rapists and thus trans-women are just sexual perverts
But they don't think there is any material difference between men and women and want to remove this distinction entirely? How the fuck does that work? And if that is their argument then thats retarded, but I've never seen one argue this before.
So what logical reason would trans people have to oppose this when its their primary issue?
As most TERFS are also rad-fems, thats not on their to do list.
Other than the biological evidence that indicates there might be a neurological reason for this dysphoria…
Even a casual peruse through any tumblr or facebook that discusses trans issues greatly emphasis this how backgrounds these gender distinctions are. Its fatalistious to say that trans people would rather a world where these differences are in place so they can "larp" as the other gender when this difference caused them the problems in the first place.
They might take issue with the suggestion that this desire for gender change is illigetimate because, as you just deomstrated, TERFS are inconsistent retards.
Which meme?
Tell that to their goddesses cults.
The meme that gender identity activists have anything to do with Foucault
just kill yourself fam
They don't, but its a meme that college based liberals buy into
Actually, most of the time they blame early socialization as the instigatior, so point at "girlhood". Behaviourism might be considered debunked, but feminist theory still relies heavily on it.
The point I make in the next statement is that they don't see it that way. This is symptom, not causation.
It most certainly is and I suggest you go look at archive footage of 80s feminism if you doubt me. Their desire to do away with gender difference was specifically the reason that the stereotype of the feminist as a fat, mannishly dressed lesbian has come about.
Yes.
That is the position of the transactivists, yes.
No, again. The majority of transactivists cast this as a biological issue, not a social one. Removing social constraints does not resolve the issue, as far as they concerned. They would still desire physical modification.
No they're just shilling classic idpol cancer which is so much better right?
Great. "Womanhood" isn't sacred. Thanks confirming that TERFs are bunch of legbeards worshiping their vaginas.
TERFS are just annoying cunts generally I have yet to interact with a single one I felt like actually speaking to again
Anyone who says girls don't have dicks can't be a gommunist.
Exactly, its a symptom of gender differences. i never hard a trans person argue otherwise
And yet both them and modern TERFS emphasis these differences as the root of the problem. What logical reason would their be to exclude trans people if they did not see this distinction as important?
Where are you getting this impression from? in the overwhelming majority of cases trans people seem to have a similar view as this pic.
Thats different from 'casting it as a biological issue". They might still want modification to neutral or completely switched gender but thye more or less what any social enforcement gone as thats what caused them stress during childhood and discrimination in adulthood. We had a post yesterday discussing Assigned male Comics and most of the examples user posted dealt with this exact issue. Again I must ask where are you getting this impresison from.
I meant to say "gender differences as enforced by society."