Hello, I am a newfaggot, so please excuse my incessant coksucking, I have no technical knowledge, only dabbled a little in some random Keyboard forums.
My question is, that I was wondering, after cracking this one up and finding a Motorola microcontroller, assuming that it is programmeable, if I can modify it to be used with modern PCs and a normal USB-2.0 A-Type Plug/Socket.
I will post more pictures.
I already heard about using a teensy micro, however, it would be cool, if I could somehow salvage the old electronics (unless of course, that macros aren't possible with it).
The intended use for the Keyboard would be deliberate shfunposting, assigning a designated copy-pasta to each key that can be used beyond the standard lettering.
I found a weird keyboard
Jason Robinson
Other urls found in this thread:
amazon.com
amazon.com
fksystem.co.jp
instructables.com
en.wikipedia.org
amazon.com
amazon.com
matthieu.benoit.free.fr
deskthority.net
twitter.com
Christian Wilson
looks like an old programmable POS keyboard, you would put little inserts into the key caps for their functions
does it have a card reader on it anywhere? or another connection?
Michael Parker
Upon some searching I can find, that I have swept up a device with a truly antiquated connector, it's not even the newer old ps2 standard, ti's the even older ps standard.
Simply using adapters (imbyign id'd even worg :DDD) I'd have to daisy-chain 2(two) adapters before I get a standard USB-A male end out of that weird connector on the keyboard.
Going in the direction from the Keyboard to the PC, it'd be first this:
amazon.com
Then this:
amazon.com
My question is, would this woork to test the function?
It is a model called "Preh Commander M84W" (made in West-Germany, kek)
It only has the keys, but also, it has a female PS-connector.
Wyatt Scott
the ultimate gaming keyboard, make all buttons programmed to Jump in CSGO and just smash your hand into it to bhop for days
i got into looking up old pos keyboards, why do japanese websites look so clean compared to everything else?
like, look at this shit
fksystem.co.jp
its beautiful
Sebastian Torres
Or make each key assigned to a certain copypasta and be the most annoying person on the server.
On a more serious note, how would I go about having the keyboard work without all those annoying adapters, or should I try the adapters?
Henry Gutierrez
it would honestly just be easier to use the adapters, you could probably splice a USB cable directly into the bitch, usb to minidin can be a bit iffy depending on the device, i know for old cameras you need a special controller to adapt them, but for things like power and data you can just wire them directly together
since it looks like you can just loosen up that connector and pull the wire ends out, doesnt hurt to try connecting a usb cable into it
i dont have a diagram of the pinouts for minidin to usb on hand but im sure theyre all over google
Josiah Ortiz
Wew.. ok... but there are 5 pins/cables in the ps cable and only 4 on a USB cable, is there no GND?
Ian Thompson
5 pin AT/minidin looks like this
Ayden Walker
Yes, I saw no problem in that, thanks for posting the schematic.
I meant the fact, that an actual USB 2.0 A-Type male connector has only 4 leads. What happens in such an adapter?
Pic related, makes 5 leads into 4.
Xavier Evans
Because you're an autist who enjoys wasting 60% of the space I guess
Tyler Campbell
Also forgot, is "mini-din" a synonym for "ps2"?
Also, there was a larger ps"1"which is on this keyboard I have her in front of me.
It seems, that ps"1" is actually IBM AT/ps2, I have misunderstood, it seems.
I will refer to the smaller male circular connector as minidin now, I previously called it ps2, sorry.
Mason Wilson
But, if I am quite frank, a split design would be more ergonomic in terms of wrist supination, something like the ergodox.
But then again, this keyboard could make a nice meme-board...
Screw it, I think I'll just do it, might learn a little about micro-controller programming like it was before things like arduino "IDE" programming.
Brody Diaz
8 Posts in and there is a shitpost. Well done.
I think the user who started talking to me in the beginning is now gone, too. Thanks.
Anthony Myers
Someone already posted the pinouts for you, dumbass. They clearly show that one pin isn't used. 5-1=4
If you can't figure that out, I think this project is too much for you. Try starting out with a "computers for seniors" type class at your local library.
Nolan Phillips
Thanks for the answer.
Sorry, I didn't see that info on the diagram, is it No3 that drops out?
I don't really know anything about the way usb functions, so I didn't see why 1 for clock in IBM AT becomes 1 for data in the PS2 standard for example.
Evan Russell
ps/2 has the little rectangle in the middle
but anything round with pins is usually called mini din
Benjamin Morales
Mine doesn't have a rectangle in the middle, confused what pin-out to map the connectors to now?
Is pic related use-able as a cable? It came from a mouse....
Shows the connector currently on the Keyboard, it looks somewhat like a PS2 variant, however all pin-outs I find that show what the correlating pins on USB-2.0 standard are use a slightly different looking example in the instance of the round connector.
Dominic Ortiz
You have a din. Not a minidin. The pinout has already been posted. It should take 2 seconds to translate from din to minidin to USB.
Blake Taylor
I have an old as fuck keyboard with that. You can get DIN->PS/2 adapters that make it work. No idea if it'll help your particular keyboard but it's a start.
Jacob Jenkins
You will likely need to run that through a serial-to-USB IC. From a quick web search, you would take whatever output the keyboard makes, translate it on an MCU to something your OS of choice recognizes, then send that out on USB to your computer.
So an MCU with a UART/SPI interface plus USB will work for your needs. That's what those adapters use. They are molded inside of the rubber case.
David Sanders
I feel like your biggest problem is knowing what key does what
Ian Hughes
That's why you write your own driver for it.
Ian Walker
...
Hunter Bell
Oh shit.
I actually have a DIN->ps/2 Daisy chained to a ps/2->usb attached to an old keyboard and it works.
Caleb Young
It looks like the kind where you can slip paper into the keys to mark what they do.
Jaxson Bennett
You know you can gut a USB keyboard and do the same thing. All keyboards are programmable through software, as well. And that's an AT keyboard connector.
Christian Smith
This. That's an 84-key AT keyboard, pretty standard on old ISA PCs except for that terrible layout. Just plug adapters in and run xev/showkey and you'll have it figured out in 2 minutes, but it's probably not worth the effort.
Logan Hernandez
Probably designed for use in some kind of custom industrial application.
Oliver Green
Yup, it's most likely a cashier's keyboard.
I found this:
instructables.com
Problem is, I already did adapt the pin-out to a USB-2.0 connector, it didn't even switch on the POWER LED...
Well, I then just opened it up again, and hooked it up to my lab power supply at 5V, still nothing.
It is either broken, or it uses a different operating voltage than a usual PC USB-Socket provides (which is 5V afaik...).
All the current of 0,74A did at 5V was to heat up the two chips visible in one of the images, probably toast now.
Well, thanks for answering my questions.
Probably, though, the keyboard was already broken, else I would not have gotten it/it wouldn't have been laying around.
What I could do is try and figure out the way in which the two plastic circuit mats work together and put a teensy in it, I heard that some people make programmable keyboards with it, and that it isn't too difficult.
Well, well, maybe it is better I just build an entire keyboard, kek.
It would at least be a project to make me learn something about electronics and give me a nice signposting pad if I add macros to each key.
Is it unrealistic making a new, modern circuitry that works with usb for the keyboard/key arrangement (replacing the green PCB in the last pic to the right)?
Wyatt Edwards
It's probably too difficult, to use the old Motorola chip for the the circuitry, as I assume it might still work, but implementing it is probably much harder than just using a teensy, which has already gotten much attention and has software/firmware already made for it...
What do you think?
Pic related is the chip: (the first two from the left, on the right are the two other chips)
If anyone could educate me on what they are for and how they may be used here, I would be very happy, even if it is just for the sake of knowing what the chips do.
I poked around a bit, and it turns out, that you need a special programmer to probably "install" code on the chip.
At the very least it's a nice thing to look at; after all you don't get a chip with such a weird window every day....
Owen Evans
Don't use a PS/2 to USB adapter. I don't think those work on every old keyboard. Use an AT to PS2 adapter and test it on a machine with PS2 port. That should be completely compatible.
Xavier Ross
Those are micro controllers, and by removing the sticker and exposing the window to light, you erased the code that was stored on it.
en.wikipedia.org
Evan Hughes
I believe the board is toast anyways.
The power LED didn't even light up.
I'll probably just go all in and build a complete keyboard. It really snagged my interest now...
As stated, it doesn't even power up, and programming the MC68705U3CS is a nightmare, you need extra programming hardware.
On top of that, the keyboard is just rubber dome shit, as I found out now, mechanical keyboards are supposedly better.
And before I invest tons of time into a Keyboard where the switches break after a while, I'd rather build a fully mechanical keyboard.
It also turns out, after some further research, that microprocessors like the teensy+/2.0 are very well adaptable for the purpose of building keyboards. In addition it has already been done, there are instructions and tutorials for me to follow.
Would you recommend a split orthonlinear layout.
I really like the look of the keys when arranged in a grid like pic related, but the arms feel cramped, making a split design a better candidate.
I opened it up, and the sticker was already removed.
Juan Rodriguez
Does anyone know how to fix a keyboard membrane "sheet"? It's torn between the "domes" that register key presses so, while it is working for now, I want to prevent further tearing.
Apologies for making up the names for those things, I don't know how they are usually called in English.
Camden Foster
I'm a newfaggot myself, but I heard membrane Keyboards really aren't worth that much.
In fact, the entire thread I made here may very well not have been worth its time...
As for your membrane keyboard, is it the rubber part that is tearing (which is usually just a question of time, the rubber gets dry and cracks) or is it the plastic part that has the circuit traces on it (you might get a broken keyboard once one of the traces is severed).
Either way, as an user told me, I'll tell you, your keyboard is not worth the time, probably.
I myself will look into building a mechanical Keyboard up from scratch, since I like DIY stuff.
You could probably just buy a new keyboard, as the type of keyboard you have probably just costs 25$, heck, some mechanical ones are eve that cheap:
Rubber dome:
amazon.com
Mechanical:
amazon.com
Charles Evans
The one I have is worth to me. I get used to things slowly but then it becomes really hard to re-adjust to something new. Also there's no new keyboard with similar enough design, so I'll be missing some functionality.
It's the membranes. Instead of being just a bunch of separate domes like it usually is in cheap keyboards, all domes are connected.
The circuit sheets (there are three of them) are fine now. Some water got in and I had to remake some of the lines which is the reason for membrane tearing. As long as I don't disassemble the KB again it'll be fine, but eventually I'll have to if only just to clean it.
I thought about changing to mechanical switches but I don't have that much free time and neither do I have sufficient electronics knowledge.
Levi White
Well, what I gather from your post is, that the rubber parts are breaking?
You could try to scavenge a rubber mat from a different keyboard and cut out a single rubber dome and maybe try to attach it to the large rubber mat in you favorite keyboard?
Changing to mechanical switches is likely not really realistically possible, as you'd have to change the entire platform on which the keys/switch units rest.
But, I really can't believe that your keyboard layout is that special, maybe post a picture of it and a more experienced user can point you to a good (mechanical) replacement.
Hudson Hall
So;
I engaged in some autism and mapped the keyboard matrix.
I also tested the most suspect traces and found out, that the keyboard matrix is completely intact.
On the left you see a standalone of the keyboard part of the whole device. It has got, as can be seen to the top center of the image, two flat-flex cable bundles. The left flat-band cable has 10 leads, the right one has 13.
The next image is an ode to my autism.
I mapped all the connector locations ABCDEFGHIJ for the left connector, abcdefghijklm for the right one.
The keys can be seen represented as crosses, the two letters denote which connectors are shorted when the key is pressed. The numbers are simply a numerical version of the same mapping.
Is it possible to connect the matrix to a new controller and adapt the controller to work with the matrix?
Do I even have to know how exactly the keyboard is mapped in order to have a controller recognize certain keystrokes and put a predefined, programmable action on it?
How would I go about building such a controller, can I simply mount a teensy to a PCB (that can, as it seems be produced for ~20$ in china?)/Hole-Matrix PCB that I have laying around?
How would the circuit look, how does the adaption to the matrix work?
The rightmost picture shows the whole Matrix with its old PCB mounted.
It is attached to the metal back-plate of the matrix via 2 screws an 2 brass standoffs, so the mounting of a new PCB is relatively easy...
I already have an Idea for how to build an enclosure for it, I'd make a wooden frame and maybe add in brass thread inserts. I could even leave a little room between the aluminum back-plate and the current matrix in case I ever want to replace it with mechanical switches...
Parker Long
The domes are fine, it's the mat that is tearing. For now. I want to prevent the tears from affecting the domes as well.
I've looked several days for new alternatives when I had to disassemble it for the first time. And it's not about layout, it's about programmable function keys, multimedia controller and so on. If you plan on telling me I don't need those or can manage with less don't bother.
Grayson Carter
wasn't the whole point of this thing to shitpost with copy pasta?
Dominic Bennett
Yup...maybe.
Do you think I should just bite the bullet, forget this keyboard and make use of mechanical switches? Building a keyboard form the ground up?
Christopher Adams
Huh, it's an 67805 -- a reprogrammable 6805. Normally you only get those in development kits (as they're ~$30 more expensive than the base MCU), but I guess the keyboard manufacturer had these so the keymaps could be tailored for each customer. matthieu.benoit.free.fr
(And also you usually get 8051/8048 CPUs in keyboards..)
Nicholas Morales
deskthority.net
Probably the easiest thing to do, but if you want to be a total autismo, there's lots of docs on the web for that MCU. Looks like it's erasable through UV exposure, and the programming method is on a pdf if you just google it.
But really, just go for the teensy. You won't have to fuck around with hardware adapters for your old ass AT connector.
Jordan Torres
Thank you very uch.
Wiring an old controller from another keyboard won't work, as the matrices are different, right?
Oh well, I could do it for shits and giggles, kek.
xec54rtfgvb67uzjhmn´8i+k
(typed by randomly shorting wires from a controller I just took out of an acer keyboard and shorted randomly with a wire)
Levi James
nigger I used that shit and I'm only 30
that plug is from just before the PS2 connector which is just before we switched to USB peripherals
peuple were still junking keyboards with that connector 5 years ago at the electronics recycling center I did receiving in, en masse
Bentley Gutierrez
Cool thread.
Would be nice to see OP finish the project:
Elijah Jones
Looked at the source, surprising.
Jackson Smith
I tend to latch onto something obscure at times and then try and follow it down the rabbit hole. I would probably do the same with this thing, but I can foresee that it would be a waste of time for me and would take time away from fapping.
Jack Collins
I fear, that doing this has become much more difficult.
I opened the keyboard, and it seems someone removed the sticker before I got the keyboard into my hands, meaning the software is gone on the MC68705C3SU, and I am not about to toss up lots of dough for a programming interface for it.
What I'll probably try to do, is to somehow use my arduino that I already have to jerry-rig something together.
It would be a nice project to figure out, anyways.
The only problem I have, is that my keyboard matrix is 7x12 using 10+12 wires on its flatband, the arduino only has 14 digital pins (of which two are Rx/Tx) and 6 Analog pins that are actually inputs (don't know if they can be used for key-matrix scanning, sorry; beginner here).
I'd need 22, and only have 20 at best.
There are 3 keys that are wired separately, maybe I can just connect them... that would put me into the range of the arduino...
How can I even make a program that scans the matrix, I literally know nothing, but am willing to learn.
I researched a bit and saw some people use like 5-6 buttons, but they never used some sort of scanning algorithm much less a matrix for their keys, as there were enough digital inputs/outputs to wire the keys separately.
Does anybody have a good method of connecting wires to the flat-band without having to solder onto possibly melt-y plastic?
Like, some connector that I can use, that adapts the flat-band to through-hole, because the one on the old controller-board is pretty windy and I'd like a more robust solution.
Gabriel Sanchez
It is probably better I make one proper keyboard before I spend time fucking around with a cheap plastic matrix...
My plan would be to have a split keyboard that has 2 pads with each 5x5 keys...maybe more columns (5rows 6 columns etc, for macro keys)
But then again, if I happen to use a teensy, I can simply use the QMK firmware that a nice user called metalliquaz already programmed, in order to have layers that can then house the macro keys...
Pic related, someone else built it, I would however much rather prefer to have a case, that is not sandwich style.
Maybe I could even use a wireless chip and connect it with a dongle... it'd be much more aesthetic...
Oh well, it's just too much money to pay for a fucking keyboard.
Looks like I'll have to wait until the manufacurers finally get their shit together and stop staggering their fucking keys like goddamn idiots and people realize, that standard keyboards are more likely to give you carpal tunnel syndrome.
Maybe, just maybe I'll work on making circuit diagrams, casing models and g-code data and put them online for anons willing to do the project and invest the money.
It might even be satisfying to plan the project, even if I don't end up paying the 100+ Euros that would easily be required to make it a reality.
Well, maybe it's best to let the memes be dreams..kek.
Also, regarding macros, I could probably also do it with a program like AHK, which I found out about just now.
Jason Hernandez
*ahem*
Pic related, someone else built it, I would however much rather prefer to have a case, that is not sandwich style.