How does Holla Forums deal with violence, disputes, theft ,etc in a socialist/communist/ anarchist society

This is why people think communist are fascist.

people also think liberals are leftists, and anarcho-capitalists are anarchists, and capitalism is an equal and just system thats based upon voluntarism and freedom

YEAH NICCOLO MACHIAVELLI WAS A TOTAL FASCIST TOO AM I RIGHT

WHEN I HEAR THE WORLD REALPOLITIK THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND IS MUSSOLINI'S MARCH ON ROME AND THE AXIS POWERS

WOW NIHILISTS ARE FASCISTS TOO, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN MY SPECIFIC MORALITY

So if you cheat on a girl and she gets jealous and says you raped her, it's ok of we kill you , her , and your lover?

Sounds pretty shit m8.

You missed the point. I'm all for crushing political opponents but I wouldn't spill the blood of an innocent prole who was the victim of petty drama.

the solution is fucking simple, i dont cheat on my gf in the first place

we're talking about AFTER we've had a successful revolution

FUCKIN MORALFAGS, IF ANYONE DOESNT BEHAVE LIKE A PERFECT ROBOT IN MY PERFECT SOCIETY, THEY SHOULD DIE.

my point was that it's bad faith to just call things fascist and try to guilt people by association for not having the same idea of political power as you
if yes then it was fascism, if not shut the fuck up

whats your perfect idealistic infallible solution then, moralcuck?

No. I know the perspective of applying fascist to anything is dumb. Most people don't give a shit about the economic part and only see you guys saying you don't care about justice.

Have a court system.

Jesus H Christ dude, I was joking. Holy shit, I never believed for a second that anyone would agree with me.

you dont get it user, if you hurt people to keep society running youre a fascist, and you deserve to be locked up for 20 years in a prison with full comfort and play PS4 all day, because its 2016 and we have morals

like the very just and fair court system we have right now?

its honestly not a bad idea

have you heard of efficiency? purging undesirables is quick and ensure they will never commit crimes again.

petty crimes mean someone is more likely to commit serious ones. hence, even drug offenders and jaywalkers should be removed from society.

No. You can reform the system. I prefer this system to tankie system.

Sorry tankie. I appreciate Stalin industrializing the nation but we're just gonna have to disagree on this one. Luckily the new left movement will be built on notions of libertarianism because stuff like this scares away the normies.

Fuck off, moralfag

So you basically want to kill all minorities

Sure got Holla Forums in here real fast

sure got """"tolerant"""" leftist in here real fast

drug use rate is virtually the same for all major ethnic groups

Oh fuck off. Drug use should be rehabilitated not punished. That doesn't work for the U.S.A and it wouldn't work for you either. It would just force a black market to spring up unless you wanna go full Saudi Arabia and even then, it still springs up. It's a non-solution and reactionary as fuck.

i dont think that drug usage is immoral. however, it shows a natural predisposition for rebellious behavior, which threatens order. also, frequent drug users rarely contribute to society anyway.

I know many drug using proles. It doesn't show a predisposition for rebellious behaviour if you don't make it a crime in the first place.

here's a suggestion: dont use drugs in the first place.

Tha ts easy for you to say. You have never had and will never have a gf or wife.

But for the average hardworking joe, fucking the receptionist, and then going home to your wife is normal.

it's pure escapism. how can a person who wants to live in another world be productive in our own? if they dont want to function in the real world, fine. exterminate them.

Have you ever even done any drugs before? Caffeine dosn't count.

people here are blinded by the interests of the individual instead of the interests of society as a whole. i value the lives of those who do their part.

only stimulants. i avoid depressants/hallucinogens since they kill productivity.

No. I've done drugs before and quit on my own. Most of my family has done drugs and one of my best friends has been struggling with a drug issue. I'd spill your bloods before I'd spill theirs.

Fascist tier.

What if the local union leader enjoys blazing up? Is he off to the gulag?

Bit tanks, what if a large portion of society likes doing drugs, jacking off to loli, etc?

Will you and your kind start a war to exterminate all those you deem "degenerate"? Maybe by putting them into camps?

:^)

i understand drug use in the context of a capitalist society. coping mechanism.

Some people have horrible shit happen to them. Some people have natural dispositions towards that but may be brilliant otherwise. I can think of quite a few scientist. Anyway, as I stated you'd create a capitalist black market doing that. It even springs up in Saudi Arabia.

Citizens arrest is fucking stupid if you don't catch someone while in the middle of a crime. Just think about it if a person wanted by the law is on the loose anyone could go after them..That means there is no way to tell apart a criminal from someone trying to act on the law. If a person just tries to get you to stop or tackles you then you don't know if they are an attacker or someone trying to perform a citizens arrest. You might not even be the person they are looking for but just look like them. This also means criminals can fight their captors in self defence. So yeah it;s pretty dumb. The only way it might work is either catching someone right in a crime so thy obviously know why you're after them or if people are given special licences after passing a test.

you only create a black market when people feel they will not suffer the consequences of their actions. fewer people would be tempted to use drugs if they knew it could cost them their life.

i understand. im a hard determinist, but unfortunately, we can not allow ourselves to hinder society's progress because of inferior people.

Your world sounds boring. And gay

...

Except it does cost them their life in Saudi Arabia and the black market still exist. What you preach is immoral and a wrong solution.

Yeah fuck off. How about this wise guy, what if when someone is a kid they watch both their parents and everyone they know die in a town fire. They later develop a drug problem. Was that because they are inferior or because of a fucking traumatic event that influenced their growth. You know kind of like a material condition? Tankie's will need to be purged, you guys aren't Marxist. As reactionary as Nazi's. Might as well put on the Nazbol flag dude.

the tankie seems like bait to bother people

you'd have a trial, with an actual jury made of their peers, although, this makes me want to ask another question, with a jury made of someones peers, aren't they biased in their favor? what counts as peers? if they're not their peers at all won't that also bias them, or no?

No Tankie's actually think like that. Similar to how Holla Forumstards have 19th century ideas of race, they have 19th century ideas of drug use.

Anyway, you get non-peers so they're not biased towards either.

what counts as a peer?

someone they know.

alright, thank you for the clarification

a strong individual would not succumb to their depression. are there not people who survive traumatic events without developing drug problems? im sorry, but if someone is weak, they do not belong in the gene pool.

who created the black market? the bourgeoisie? no, it was the victim of capitalism–the proletariat. if you establish a communist society in which everyone is guaranteed their basic needs, then people will have no need to participate in illegal business.

No actually. You do not understand drug use at all. It has nothing to do with "le strong person". I'd recommend you read a book about how the physical changes in the brain that can lead to that and how they can still be reconciled through rehabilitation. A small minority of people who undergo that don't develop a substance abuse problem but the vast majority do. This isn't because they're weak, it's because you lack empathy and don't understand drug use.

You just sound like a retarded race realist. You can literally see the changes of depression in the brain.

psychologytoday.com/blog/heal-your-brain/201107/depression-and-anxiety-disorders-damage-your-brain-especially-when

It's almost antithetical for a Marxist to be deterministic. But I guess that's why people say Stalin wasn't a marxist.

Funny enough, Stalin was a drinker to.

newsmax.com/Newsfront/churchill-stalin-drinking-world/2013/05/23/id/506086/

lordsofthedrinks.com/2014/03/18/jozef-stalin-paranoid-dictator-mass-murderer-but-a-great-drinker/

And best of all, Stalin used "depressants". Oh the irony!

You just sound like a retarded race realist. You can literally see the changes of depression in the brain.

how is this not consistent with determinism? i just dont think people with depression are fit enough to function or reproduce in society. it's not personal.

It's not a result of how they were born. It's a result of material conditions. This is why I say you are not a Marxist.

Also way to conveniently ignore the fact that Stalin smoked and drank. Should he go to the Gulag to tankie?

i ignored it because i never said stalin was infallible. the ussr was a mess.

You're using the tankie flag but you're not a Stalinist?

Your social darwinism is not welcome with the left we are trying to create out of the idpol infested left of today. And if you think you're gonna rally the working class by saying "lol if you see ur parents get killed by an axe murderer and then end up drinking sry but ur just inferior lmao" you're deluded. You'll get purged way before any drug user. You don't understand drug use and deny material conditions affecting people and think it's all a determinist thing. Again: you are not a marxist so put on that Nazbol flag and wear it with pride!

i never claimed to be an orthodox marxist. is anyone today? part of the problem with the ussr in its early stages was lenin's dogmatism. he was as religious as most christians. unwavering devotion to the word of marx.

i agree with certain aspects of the ussr, but not all. tankie best encapsulates my ideology because of my belief in brute force.

If it benefits me, great. If it benefits others, shut it down.

No, Nazbol matches it the best. The point of leftist is not "le brute force" its supposed to be the ideology of emancipation. Helping out the little guy and those who are a victim of circumstance. You aren't a leftist period because you think material conditions affecting the growth of someone will somehow disappear once you establish your utopian authoritarian socialist state.

The word "tankie" is associated with politicians who literally introduced anti-Stalinist purges.

Granted, Liberals and certain Trotskyists/Maoists have some convoluted logic that makes practically everyone a tankie (I've been told Lenin is a tankie too; as well as Marx, apparently), but then why would it have to be specifically Stalin?

i believe the workers should own the means of production. just because i am open to capital punishment does not mean i am a nazi.

libertarian socialism is not the only socialism.

just to be clear:

no one here is actually a tankie right?

If you give a definition of "tankie" to go with that question, you might actually get an answer.

AFAIK it's just a derogatory label invented for propaganda reasons, but it didn't get "self-appropriated" like (data) piracy did.

I align with Marxism-Leninism, so my answer is based on their conceptions of the following terms. In the socialist stage, the working class has a state (police force, army, ), and the state enforces laws against murder, theft, rape, etc in similar ways that the capitalist state does today and the USSR did historically. As most crime is caused by poverty, crime would be sharply reduced, minus of course crime caused by mental disorders/ rare individuals like serial killers. As society progresses to the classless society of communism, I would argue that technology would be so advanced that we could detect and treat mental illness before even they commit like crimes like murder or rape. Theft wouldn't be a problem as the society would be materially abundant enough to handle it, and theft would serve no purpose. A good example of this in modern capitalist society is why people only choose to take one newspaper when paying for it. They don't because further newspapers don't serve a purpose. I think crime like murder or rape would still exist on a small scale, but drastically reduced compared to today.

...

Nice counter-argument

No you are a Nazbol because you hold views of social darwinism. Nazbols are also in favour of ownership of the means by the workers. I am in favour of putting rightist to death, but I am not in favour of putting proles to death who are victim of unfortunate circumstances and go through the natural changes that come with that.

It would exist but you still need a justice system to some degree.

I agree. It would most likely be very small, as the need for it would be small, but then again this is so far off in the future maybe we can't really depict, in detail, what this would look like.

The problems with our justice system could be reformed out. People like Brevik would not get a trial, just slow torture.

Either a failed shitposter or a nazi with an identity crisis

Those are called Nazbol's user

I'm in favor of trial by jury, so I don't agree that just torturing people without giving them a chance to prove their innocence is good. Also just torturing fascists or anyone is really just pointless. Giving the death penalty to severe offenders and reform through labor or reeducation got lower offenders is better than just torture for the pleasure of it.

Yeah I agree. But Brevik with your "trial and justice in ever case" shit isn't even getting the death penalty for killing dozens of children. Authoritarianism will always be necessary to some degree until the capitalist surrender all over the world, because they will always try to subvert. But in general I think we should have a trial by jury. But I don't want insane fascist fucks like Brevik in my country. They can be put in labour camps immediately or be put to death. There's no reason to put those people in the comfy prison Brevik is in right now.

Thanks fam. Good to know.
I am struggling with all those Holla Forums terms, but I am getting there.

They're national Bolsheviks. People who are leftist economically but are racist or believe in determinism and social darwinism. Like the guy in the thread, "we can not transition to communism until all the degenerates are purged from the society". As a leninist, I hate when Nazbol's appropriate Stalin because he had a tight grip on the country.

Ah thanks for clarifying. I do agree that Brevik deserves the death penalty, as he would pretty obviously fall under "serious offender". When shit hits the fan we won't have time for trial by jury, and neither will the capitalists. I just meant when things are more stable (relatively) we ought to employ trials and ensure some basic rights.

Of course. But even after things Stabilized in the USSR the U.S.A was constantly trying to get the upper hand. Gorbachev actually made deals with the U.S., thinking if he let perestroika happen the United States would support Russia more. He got screwed over. In North Korea even after all these years, there are still U.S.A. troops stationed in South Korea. The capitalist super power of the time will always try to subvert. Until that is crushed, we can't transition to a truly democratic system or really think about seriously dissolving the state. It's a battle of powers and if you let one grow it will destroy you. This is the unfortunate circumstance for the proletariat.

I understand. The funny thing with these kind of people is that they assume they belong in the group that won´t be purged when such a oppressive system would develop.

Also to elaborate a little bit more: this is because if the workers of the Capitalist country see the Communist one enjoying a higher quality of life than them, they will inevitably revolt because they will know in their hearts, that they have been cheated by a repugnant force. This is why they need to subvert and make the Communist country look as shabby as possible and why the communist country can never let its guard down until the capitalist powers of the world meet their demise.

I'm under no illusions about the capitalist world invading or subverting whatever territory we capture. I do agree with you, but I wonder at what point we could abolish the state, or what least what that would look like in the real world. At that time our territory would be so rich/powerful, I assume the capitalist states would just collapse and the pendulum couldn't swing back to the capitalist mode of production. It does suck that we lost the USSR and the Eastern bloc senapi

Just like you said, when the socialist country is so strong any efforts from the capitalist country at subversion would serve a negligible threat. It's unfortunate and of course I believe in Democracy and believe in letting the people of the country live in a liberal matter. I think that we should let law enforcement and most things be organized on the local level and have the authority of the vanguard serve as a last resort to fatal threats.

WEW

pierre babe

Why didn't that work in east/west Germany? In fact, money was pumped from poorer USSR areas just to inflate the quality of life in EaSt Germany

This is how most Holla Forums will die

trial by combat

Not most, but a sizable portion.