Should We Embrace The Term 'Alt-Left'?

Also I think that alt-left is totally applicable to Holla Forums considering that literally no one takes le Old Left bullshit seriously anymore, and Holla Forums is completely out of touch with any leftist theory after the 19th century.

Become who you are.

Yes lets give Idpol validation by call ourselves the alternative to it.

Idpol is real regardless of if you like it or not fam.

Does rebranding things has that much of an effect? Do you have any example of successes and failures and their reasons?

Oh the irony

It worked for the alt right. As well as riding on the back of the gamer gate backlash, they were instantly able to do away with all traditional right wing stigma.

Not validation of an imaginary thing as real but validation as the "true" left

Idpol is the mainstream left, western at least, you cannot deny that.

You retards give """""idpol""""" validation by flying off the handle at anything that may just slightly resemble identity politics - which in your mind is anything that isn't hard economic determinism.

Maybe try going a day without having yet another thread shitposting about "idpol", complete with the stench of doritos and BO that you'll find in a GG thread or a Holla Forums thread or any other thread where suburban neckbeard rejects shitpost about how the conspiracy of """""feminism""""" against the poor oppressed white males.

Nihilism is actually a pretty hot topic right now in contemporary anarchist theory.

Not that you'd know about that, because if you aren't a Marxist you'll just dismiss all anarchist theory after Kropotkin as >MUH IDPOL EDGY LIFESTYLISM >:^((((

Alt-left is already associated with racist.

That may be, but as with anti using the word alt in a name brings implications that the whole point to it is that its not idpol. Im not against renaming just not alt or anti or anything like that.

It's only a matter of time until "race realism" takes root on this board. There's already enough reactionary tendencies and attempts to appeal to the right by making us look like we're not like the other leftists ;^)))

Mainstream left. MAINSTREAM.

You're right, tbh.
I think I might start calling my self an alt-leftist.

The "mainstream" left that you're referring to is literally not even the left. You, like the rest of Holla Forums, just want to dismiss any leftist theory that isn't economic determinist Old Left shit as not being """""True Leftism""""", which as I indicated earlier in the thread is some laughable reactionary rhetoric.

Alt-left flag/logo when?
Anybody interested in designing one?

Hasn't yet, so why start?

you're worse than rebel and xexizy combined tbh

We've been through this before.
We're classic left.

Shit if we had to rename ourselves why not use Economic Left.

Say this variety of leftism goes mainstream. Are you still gonna call it alt-left? How damaging is the process of rebranding such a thing? The name dignifies it as outside the norm. Does that doom the "movement" to permanently residing on the outskirts? What I'm saying is it's stupid and this is one layer of stupid I've yet to see pointed out.

Words change.
We're too far gone.
We should jettison 'leftism' because of what it is associated with. Just like we should jettison 'feminism' because of what it is associated with.
'True' meanings are irrelevant. What is important is that we can convey our points. No need for extra baggage climbing up this hill.

No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

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Yeah, no. There is still a thread dedicated to refute that shit.

Don't reply to mudposters

Because Holla Forums is very prone to getting slid by crypto-fascists. The combination of being on Holla Forums and coming out of Holla Forums's culture, the incessant stream of newfags, and the desperate attempts to distance ourselves from "SJWs" at all costs to appeal to the Right has made it pretty damn easy to turn this board into essentially Holla Forums with some "leftist" posturing thrown in.

Damn bro you sure rekt me with that leftist critique. Clearly you are the superior patrician leftist scholar, and I but a mere lifestylist anarkiddie. Guess I'll go continue to eat from the trash and spraypaint circle-A's on trains ;_;

It's literally what Holla Forums is.

But let's go with alt-left because it's associated with racist?

Is it?

By being Alt you ADMIT that you lost the real left status

By continuing to try to refute racism, you're only contributing to the establishment of race realism on this board.

You will never refute something like that because it's the product of ignorance and fear displaced onto a big Other. The Right has always and will always use pseudoscience, rhetoric, goalpost shifting, and any other cheap tactic in the book to continually morph its position into something else whenever it looks like it might be untenable.

The only thing to do against a view that is so obviously wrong is to not give it any platform - which is precisely the opposite of what Holla Forums does.

Yeah, it is.
We've had threads about this already.

It's such an atrocious thing to call everyone. I don't want to be associated with that shit.

You yell at me for idpol. this is is idpol. This thread is bullshit. Stop trying to push this.

Go on.

We literally have lost.
People think left=liberal=government

Well, they're failing horribly then, because they feel the need to raid us about every day.

I bet it's a pollyp, or just a redditor, trying to troll us. "You and the alt right are literally the same! Horse shoe is real, lmao ecks dee :DDDD"

Fuck off.

no no no no no no no no…

instead we rehash the original meaning of "left vs right "by the "anti capitalism " vs "pro capitalism "

now have some dick

First result on search engine mention racially aware.
Maybe the term can be conquered to a "racially dontgiveashit" meaning, but i have no idea how does one proceed.

Beside didn't B.S somewhat rehabilitated the term socialist? Shouldn't we capitalize on it?

Nah, the censorship is what gives them their aura of "hidden truth", the correct onswer is to refute them openly. No platform is retarded and counterproductive.

Cancer is cancer, m8.
You're not going to save it by putting a bow on it.

Women and children don’t need to be protected by men—they need to be protected from men

;3

I remember a quote of a lolbert glossing about how the right stole the term liberalism. Surely there is a way to conquer words.

First people need to understand that anti-capitalism=/=government

Reddit doesn't approve, who woulda thunk it

Liberalism has always been to the right of us.

ALT LEFT
L
T

L
E
F
T

Anyone who I don't like is reddit

Not true.
I hate tankies, but they're not reddit.
I hate rebel, but he's not reddit.
I hate polyps, but they're not reddit.

You are 100% reddit.

That's not quite right though is it.

You're right, 'hate' is too mild.

Left vs Right on't even carry any weight in today's ideological landscape.

Like others said, all it boils down is whether one is pro or anti Capitalism.

One should abandon the label "left" because it has become so nebulous and diluted by Soc dems, keynensians, centrists, left liberals etc. that it's meaningless to try to identify a genuine leftist position in the sense of old socialism or Marxism.

Thus the new distinction in politics should be:

1. economic anti-capitalists/pro-socialists

2. pseudo political identitarians (which includes feminists, cultural liberals, far right, fascists etc.)

3. Capitalists status quo apologists (centrists, Keynesians, libertarians, soc dems, liberals, center rightists)

4.Apolitical life-stylists, or off the grid, non-direct political engagement movements (anarchists, communes , autonomists, hippies etc.)

...

Intriguing

I already use it all the time. And people who hate us, anti-idpol socialists, also use it.

So fuck it, I say let's embrace it.

"Left and Right is outdated/limited" is some lvl 1 political insight shit. Shut up.

The Left will take off and gain a huge influence as soon as we stop being a sidekick, an ally and a "phase" for liberals, social-democrats and SJWs.

We need to differentiate ourselves from them, and embracing a new label might be useful. Imagine if Libertarians would say "I'm a conservative, but let me elaborate on specifically what type of conservative I am …" instead of using the term Libertarian. They would never make any progress.

"Classic Left", like "Old Left" will make people think of the Soviet Union.

Let me get this straight. You want to engage in idpol to combat idpol? Isn't this somewhat counter-productive?

They are basically Fascists who don't want to be called Fascists.

Why would we need to avoid being called what we are?

Mass-media of the Western World can go fuck itself.

If you want to surrender the title of Left to some right-wing opportunistic scum - knock yourself out.

If you have problem explaining to people who you are, use more specific words. The ones they'll understand. Bolshevik, Stalinist, Marxist-Leninist - those work for me (provided it is not happening somewhere where I'll get incarcerated or simply killed for it).

Now, the only problem would be if you are some opportunistic "Hipster Left" who doesn't have any ideology, but wants to identify as an attack helicopter Left, but can't distinguish himself from other attack helicopters (who are also without ideology, but happen to have different ideas about being Left). If you are - please call yourself alt-Left. In fact, I'll beg you to.

Is this a joke?

I did not mean it in the sense hat there aren't distinction between left wing and right wing positions. I just clarified that the ideological political arena is so muddled and bastardized that people cannot even identify which policies are right wing and which are left wing.

For example taking Trump as an example you have someone who is virtually a political centrists in all ways but the immigration issue. In virtually all ways the establishment Republican party is MORE economically an socially right wing than Trump (plus imperialist in it's foreign policy), yet in the media Trump is seen as a far right winger.

This same confusion is also seen in Europe , where you have far right wing governments but protectionists economic policies and yet which are very pro-EU (Poland, Hungary,Bulgaria Baltics). At the same time modest protection of the welfare state by Syriza in Greece, labor in UK and it's expansion in US by S█████ is labeled as "far-left'. Issues which were the status quo even going back 50 years ago.

I'm not against groups identifying as left, or right. I'm just saying that it's the arche ieological poisoning of the well in todays politics and perfectly plays into the establishments game. A perfect illustration of this is that almost all leftists noway identify with idpol issues and lost their revolutionary character. No wonder then why people waltz in here asking us "why are you in favor of free movement of immigration?" and "big government".

Funny thing about you sperging out over this is that you're exactly one of the people we should differentiate ourselves from by using alt-left.

You're right. Nobody sane wants to be associated with you, go make your secret club.

says the person with the anarcho-feminist flag

I fucking hate the term alt-left. I vote 'no'.

Any reason or is that just emotional?

...

More people in the left want to be associated with both anarchism and feminism than a bunch of tankies who have zero friends.

Luckily there are more options than a couple of the most cancerous ones

Yeah that's why you're choosing to label yourself "Alt-Left"

Because you aren't cancer.

And more people are turned off the Left by both of those than by "tankies".

Okay. I see the problem right here.

You yourself can't distinguish between Right and Left (too much TV, my guess is), and think that nobody can.

Please, do it.

I grow tired of self-identifying attack helicopters who think that Left is just some vague idea that holds no meaning beyond "non-conformist fashion sense".

So two wrongs do make one right?
Cool.

The numbers really don't support that accusation.

No I'm saying the alt-right is stupid and you are dumb.

Labels are stupid. We should adamantly refuse to label ourselves. If someone asks what your movement is, explain it to them rather than just telling them an ambiguous label.

Woops. Excuse me. "Alt-Left"

You're right! I mean, the Left is huge and winning everything rn, so being associated with anarcho-feminists is probably a good thing.

Right vs Left has been traditionally been about economic issues not social ones. It's you who is confused. The whole point of Marxism is to criticize then political economy of the present. But today there is so much ideological confusion that economic and power relations are obfuscated to the extreme.

If you want the support for the alt-right blindly, you won't win them. You're groveling and it's pathetic.

No one's talking about winning the alt-right.

No one's directly saying that, no.

All words are labels.

That's very inefficient and time-consuming. Moreover, how are you going to connect to other people with the same ideas?

Examples, please. Because traditionally social and economic issues didn't have much of a difference.

Enlighten me, then.

Not really. Thats an immense oversimplification.

What are you talking about? Most of the stuff is no different from before.

I don't think its necessary. Because of [REDACTED]'s message being pushed into the public eye due to the election I think people are actually seeing a difference between leftists and neo liberals. The divide created by clinton and [REDACTED] is evident by both the right and the left. To adopt the moniker of 'alt' throws all of that away.

'Alt' implies literally being against le system - just like [REDACTED]

The "alt" in alt-right is not what refers to their stance on identity politics/social justice. That's the "right" part.

Stop trying to make alt-left a thing.

If we adopt the term 'alt' we're casting ourselves as the interlopers. And that is simply not the case the left has been taken over by neolibs. tis' they who should be categorized as the intruders m'lady.

All in all adding "alt" is pretty stupid. is a big reason why

Shallow as it is desperate.

I'm calling myself an alt-leftist from now on.
Deal with it.

And if we simply embrace a vague "left" we're casting ourselves as compliant to whatever the Left, according to common perception, does.

So if fucking Hillary Clinton does something awful, we all get collectively hit. Does that sound like a good strategy to you?

We should be presented as interlopers, as outsiders, because that removes the burden of guilt by association. We don't have power, after all, this is what we are: an alternative.

I won't. I will disengage in every conversation with you

I prefer "old left"

Who the fuck cares. If you can't argue your point, or see the world is that general and paint by numbers, you're making a mistake.

You have to argue your point through rigidity in order to differentiate, not find some catch all phrase and pray you don't have to argue.

It doesn't work that way.

Well if user won't talk to me, I'll immediately change my mind.

We couldn't possibly argue our disaffection with the mainstream view of "Left" more than we're currently doing, and we also articulate it through our electoral choices. It doesn't work.

The 'Class Left' would suit us better.

Like I said its not vague anymore. Any democrat worth their salt perceives a very real difference in what Hillary and [REDACTED] represented. And thats why everyone calls her a neo liberal and him a democratic socialist.
You're just polluting the waters in a vain attempt to be seen as a rebel.

I disagree. I mean, I'm fine with talking about race realism with rightist outside of Holla Forums but they've been derailing threads over and over. I don't wanna talk about niggers anymore I've heard enough. Giving them no platform on the site is the best option. The people we need to reach with that is the normies, not the rightist of which it is integral to their world view.

Who's we? There's aspects of the left I do not like either, but point those aspects out and refuse to brush "The Left" as broad as you're making it. You say you don't want people associating the left with that, and yet you do it.

Term mining and marketing is shit the right does, it isn't shit anyone with an education does.

Thank you.

But what specific idea does make you different from the "improper Left"?

yep

Holy strawman batman, it's like I'm really browsing /r/socialism.

fuck off dumb shill. we're old left.

This is some retarded ass shit. A policy is right wing if it preserves some form of natural hierarchy. Capitalism is right wing in that sense, no matter how much socdems wanna say they aren't. This is the main difference between left. Once this is pointed out to someone it's really easy to distinguish between the two.

He's not wrong. You also bitch about Holla Forums strawmen and do it yourself. The comparisons are there, perhaps worse because of hypocrisy.

...

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Alt-Left
Class Left
Rad Left
Trad Left
Old Left
Classic Left
Original Left
Economic Left

See:

Honestly sickening and lazy

My class didn't left. I'm still classy

*tips class*

Exactly. More over I'm not even sure Holla Forums gave themselves that title. I think it was thrust upon them because they harassed so many communities online with their 'race realism' and shitty other dogmas

Class Left as in Classy Left, or Classic if you guys prefer.

I might try making a meme or two.

K y s
y
s

sage

bump

That spiel honestly sounded like some shit I'd read in /SRS/, not even exaggerating.

Do all nihilists get this pissy when you suggest their pet causes are not all that important. Pretty funny from the "nothing matters maaaaan" crowd.

I like class, it tell about our focus on economic relationships, it evoque classical as historical and being classy.

How about traditional leftism?

Explain how we will achieve socialism by pandering to spooked liberals, please.

That said, democratic anti-capitalism gets the General meaning across.

Now you're starting to get it. You have to be very careful to be clear and explicit when using language, otherwise it will trick you.
Ideally you should avoid words altogether and deal exclusively in reality, but that's difficult when you want to communicate with someone.

The self-identified Alt-left is currently made up of race realist socdems and liberals, so I don't think embracing the term would make much sense

So Nazbols?

Hey guys remember that time we thought n1x had killed himself? Those were good times.

No, they aren't nazbols, I don't think any of the people who currently identify as alt-left on the internet have ever really opened a book on left-wing political theory. It's just racist liberals and socdems.

Trad Left seems to fit this board's prevailing idpol consensus more than any other tbh

whether that's a good or bad thing is a different matter

No.

Yes.

No

coEEsUdYOYA
thZ fFlYUSHUEEg

Please die faux Cyrillic.

counter-currents.com/2016/01/introducing-the-alt-left/

Doesn't sound "anti idpol" to me at all.

No. The 'Alt-Right' a shitty meme-tier rebranding of fascism and letting politics morph into all sorts of 'alts' is just letting the ideology mask the reality.

We're the radical left (insofar as that means anything anymore). We've been Marxists and Anarchists for over a century and ought to stay that way.

The nazis feel the need to rebrand because they know their views are perceived as too shitty to salvage so they latch on to the latest idpol. Retards who want us to be an 'alt-left' are just as bad if not worse than those retards who want to abandon hammer and sickles because its scares the liberals or want to call communism some shitty new age bullshit rather than call it what it is.

lol

Well fuck

Children need to be protected from many women tbh

This.
The biological father is the least dangerous for the child.

More reactionary rhetoric. I'm not impressed.

I guess you must spend a lot of time on reddit studying le ebin idpolers so you can most effectively point out the token Other to pin the degeneration of your idyllic nostalgia fantasy onto, right?

Damn right in the feels :^(((((((

I'll bet you won't be saying that when I actually kill myself from being bullied this hard ;___;

good thread.

You are alternate to the mainstream 'left' these days. This is why it was a handy descriptor. Guess Holla Forums will have to take this too…

'alt' anything is cool to the kids.

No, fuck off.

No, it's meant to refer to "leftist" idpol.

That's a fundie fringe you're describing. What rock have you been living under for the last 50 years?

Back to Reddit.

We don't want you to embrace that term because you are not the alt-left. You are the ant!-white establishment left. The real alt-left is racially aware. Not to mention, the alt-left is also aware to the fact that capitalistic consumerism is the reason for the death of the nation as well as the death of traditional European values.

Like living in a hut made of sticks and shit, painting yourself blue and practising human sacrifice in peat bogs? Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Yeah see? Cool dudes like this already have the name.

Like you said, WE are actually leftist, not them.
And I want nothing to do with the alt-right, even association.

I WANT LOLIFAGS TO GO BACK TO Holla Forums

/leftpol/ is already half way there

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