Are there any non-marx version of socialism? how did marxist socialism get so popular...

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It's not me, I wouldn't post this shitty girl without a trip.

Because Marxism is basically a secular religious political movement. They worship a set of idols and identify with their holy scriptures, aka Marxist 'theory'.

How the hell are social democrats socialists? Maybe back then but now its all about retaining the capitalist framework of the economy. Reformism/evolution is not incompatible with communism. I can think that communism can be reached through reform even though its fucking stupid.

Anarchists don't. It's a big clue as to which strain of thought you should pick

certainly true for lenin

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I bet you haven't read a single page by Marx you pseudo-intellectual.

Muh edgy revolt against socialism and authority. Literally teen anarchist tier.

Never change, Marxists.

I'm sorry, what's the difference between you and SocDem?

Yep. Business as usual.

Me? I'm not a socdem. I also think revolution is necessary. I was only giving an example. Social democrats aren't socialists. They came from it but long since resigned to the socialist cause.

fuck off cancer

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Well you can argue that anarchism is non-marxist socialism but, anarchism is dumb anyway tbh.

Come on yui, it's not that bad. Normally if someone is blindly following what they read it's because they dont really understand it in the first place, which is ok because not everyone automatically gets everything they read instantly, especially with harder texts, and that coupled with the fact that Marx is made out to be amazing in the first place adds the 'well he's probably right even if I'm not sure what about' element to it. If you provide them with that understanding they are able to be more critical of it. This isnt religion this is just a learning process. It's only when people are willingly ignorant it becomes cult-ish.

Xexizy is that you?

You can fuck off too and go read.

Gee, I guess I can't counter that. You have bested me with your superiour argumentative skills. I'll just crawl over to this corner and die, now that you have completely destroyed the basis for my belief.

Hegelian Marxism >all the young Hegelians

the dialectical materialism is idealist believe

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Yeah it's pretty cringeworthy. "Read Marx" is like some bizarre mantra for them, much like "The bible says …"

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I'm having a hard time seeing why Marxism isn't a religious ideology.

Christian atheism, secular Buddhism, Taoism, and secular humanism are all examples of nontheistic religions.

kys

Smith was not a fan of capitalism.

If Marxism is a form of humanism (and there is reason to believe that at least the early Marx was a humanist).

And humanism is a religion

Then Marxism is a religion.

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Sure there are nontheistic religions but no one would claim they are secular. Perhaps you could call Marxism a "faith" but anything can be taken on faith its just a matter of how people view it. Some people have a lot of faith in Marxism. But Marxism itself has no religious elements.

Are you having trouble familiarizing yourself with Marxism before making judgements as well?

Youre being really silly

You're being really dumb

It takes like two seconds to google atheistic religions. It's not my fault you think all religions are theistic. You're clearly in the wrong here.

Proudhon came before Marx.

Proudhon and Fourier both came before Marx.

Sure thing bub

I guess not. I'm pretty familiar with Marxism.

Yeah I basically agree. It goes to show why Marxism still has appeal.

Right I'm just highlighting that there are both 'utopian' and 'revisionist' currents of socialism. They have not been popular until lately with B████ and the neo-progressivism.

Then how the fuck did you manage to find religion there?

You're making an assumption that religion necessarily needs a god figure. This is false. And it's not that hard to google "nontheistic religions" to realize that you're mistaken. Unless you saw those and then decided it didn't fit with your narrow definition of what religion is, so you're just discounting them.

I didn't say I did. I just can't express why it isn't in response to Yui poster.

Wrong. I'm making an assumption that a religion needs a dogmatic set of rules that are beyond any and all criticism. The existence of a god figure is just a way to ensure the adherence of it by means of negative reinforcement (eternal damnation; eternal reincarnation; etc). Tell me what's the dogma of humanism and Taoism that cannot be criticized under any circumstance?

We now moved to "all religion is organized religion" territory. This is a super productive conversation.

I actually misunderstood you. I imagine the atheist Christian is still a follower of Christ and adheres to that set of particular beliefs, but not the ones about him being God or any God existing at all. The secular Buddhist can still follow Buddhist rituals and symbols and not believe in deities. I don't think this is a productive conversation still.

There's one atheist Buddhist, whose name I don't remember, that claims that atheism is the proper way to practice Buddhism. This isn't so different from Zizek saying that the only way to be an atheist is through Christianity. Or de Bottom saying that atheists should reclaim religion. Your understanding of what religion is, seems really limited if you're leaving nontheistic religions aside.

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"X political philosophy I don't like is a cult/religion" is just about the most generic insult possible. You might as well have called Marxists a bunch of big fat meanies while you're at it.

Meant for

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Broadly, I have seen most 'mainstream" marxists are loath to actually attempt to critique their own authors even for the sake of practicing their own critical thinking and theory building. It's not confined to Marxists nor is it something that all do, but it is a frequently reoccurring thing.

So, you're saying that there are retards in pretty much all groups?

I didn't say they were retarded. Nor am I saying that marxists are just regurgitating theory they don't understand because they've just learned what quote to lift from what book goes which critique (though that does happen at times). I'm saying there is a trend of dogmatic rigor that stifles personal introspection and reflection.

Ah, I see. Like ? Well, like I said, they are retards and should be summarily ignored.

IMO it makes more sense to look at some Millenarian movements as religious versions of Socialism.

Proving yourself to be as articulate and thoughtful as ever, yuiposter, producing "criticism" that wouldn't be out of place in a youtube comments section.

market socialism?

this is true, good triggering Yui

Anarchism promotes non-marxist theories of socialism. Marxism got so popular because 1. Marx was a good writer and 2.the October revolution and the USSR happened. We just name the ideology after its founder to make things easy.

nah

this. yui is god

This pretty mutch to be honest family.

does this necessarily make it false though?

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