Ok I gotta ask you liberals this

Why do you people advocate "social welfare" and "basic income" so much?

I work in the creative industry and as you know, there is absolutely no safety net whatsoever. People work in the creative industry for years on absolute shit pay or nothing at all just to get experience. People get hired and fired on the spot as there is no job security or rights. Complaining is frowned upon because it makes you seem like a lazy piece of shit who wants a free ride.

But heres the thing. If you put in the hard work, everyone gets along just fine and build life long relationships and friendships. If someone gets fired, no biggie. They just move on with their lives to get another job.

So why is it so hard for liberals (and socialists alike) to comprehend that the welfare state, basic income, and holding hands in kumbaya is not necessary for an economy to function?

Because we are shameless lazy pieces of shit who want a free ride. Tell us why we shouldn't be.

If a lot of people don't make any money and can't buy any products in the market, don't you think that has an adverse effect on the economy? Don't you think a UBI would likewise free up a bunch of creative forces?

Can't wait until the next recession hits and you change your tune op

Sometimes, and I shit you not, people can't find work becuase the productive forces are idle and Capitalists won't hire more than 1 person becuase muh costs.

It keeps capitalism alive by not forcing those in lower classes either turn to life of crime. It`s also great way for employers to keep employees on edge, since "reserve army for labor" is constantly waiting to replace them. Also this makes it easy to pit unemployed against working class and vice versa.

Heres the thing though - a LOT of people do work in the creative industry for shit pay or nothing even though they may know they may never make it for years. Thing you have to realise is that they chose their own life paths and the consequences which came along with it.

Basically Full Automation will make UBI a necessity.

I also work in the """"creative industry"""" and I can tell you you're spouting a load of horse shit.

Game devs especially are expected to put in 14 hour days for no extra pay, just because "they should feel lucky to have a job". Fuck that and fuck every game industry recruiter who expects me to kiss their toes to get an interview for a 3 month contract position.

If we didn't have to work at this for profit, maybe we'd have less Maddens and more Icos. Happy employees produce higher quality work, it's as simple as that.

I won't even get in to the shit that VFX artists have to deal with.

Its called the economic cycle, buddy. Read up on a book on basic economics or two.

I don't know what "liberals" to whom you're asking these questions, but it's clearly not this board. For the most part, this board is composed of socialists, communists, and anarchists, none of which are liberal positions. You're clearly either new or a troll.

Go be a classcuck elsewhere, weeb, and don't come back unless you can make an intelligent post that isn't rife with condescension and basic ignorance of your opponent.

No it's called the business cycle you fucking retard

Then you're in a very small minority buddy. Because everyone else puts up with it.
You chose that career path. Don't expect a free ride.

I would expect nothing less from communists / anarchists / socialists. :-)

We don't expect compassion, nor do we ask for it.

It's not that I can't, retard. It's that I won't. I value my time more than to waste it futilely arguing about a matter with a political idiot whose Dunning–Kruger condescension guarantees that anything I say won't be seriously considered. Go bother someone else.

And by the way, I'm calling for ignoring, saging, and hiding shit threads like this. That is not calling for censorship. Learn the difference. It may help you better understand how bourgeois society already engages in mass censorship and disinformation in order to keep classcucked liberals like you occupied and ignorant.

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Yeah sure. Meaning they'd still do it with a UBI. I don't know what your point is.

wow you really need to lurk moar faggot

You commit on keystone fallacious assumption, The Marketeer Fallacy.

You loosely or not at all define the state of "working" then bend it's meaning in whatever post-hoc ways you find useful.
The capitalist mode of production has profit as it's objective and no long-term or collective goals.
From this perspective , the idle worker, the starving/diseased/infrastructure-lacking/uneducated/poor/displaced/victimized/domineered(etc) masses matter not if the capitalist makes short term profit.

Secondly the Pull-by-Bootstraps fallacy, which is a rather low effort attempt at trolling to be honest.
It glorifies struggle, denies the possibility(commonality) of failure and more importantly, implicitly characterizes the system as meritocratic and it's inequalities as failures of it's victims.


You my good sir are a filthy troll, and such brutish , malignant creatures belong in the gulag.

"Why can't you just be happy with your shit sandwich?"

Classcucks need to be gassed.

...

I know OP is a faggot, but most of the bottoms I know don't like being assfucked this much.

WEW LAD

Can you just lurk for like a day before being retarded?

I don't know, go ask the liberals. I don't know what part of socialism includes a "welfare state"

Probably the FALC part :P

:DDDD

I assume this is your first time here. ]

Also no here claims that the welfare state, basic income, or "holding hand in kumbaya" are necessary for the economy.

...

you know who else advocated for basic income? milton friedman, the architect of late 20th century economic policy.

Oh wait, I forgot, we're using the special snowflake definition of a state here aren't we?

States are hierarchies and involve classes, fags.

If you like sucking strongman dick and making friends so much while being paid a shit wage join the military. You'll contribute more to the world getting shot by sandniggers and dying in a third world hellhole than you'll ever contribute working in a """creative industry""" that hires ponces like you. Be sure to volunteer to be a truck driver, those guys are magnets for IEDs.

There is no academic consensus on the most appropriate definition of the state.[5] The term "state" refers to a set of different, but interrelated and often overlapping, theories about a certain range of political phenomena.[6] The act of defining the term can be seen as part of an ideological conflict, because different definitions lead to different theories of state function, and as a result validate different political strategies.[7] According to Jeffrey and Painter, "if we define the 'essence' of the state in one place or era, we are liable to find that in another time or space something which is also understood to be a state has different 'essential' characteristics" [8]

The most commonly used definition is Max Weber's,[9][10][11][12][13] which describes the state as a compulsory political organization with a centralized government that maintains a monopoly of the legitimate use of force within a certain territory.[14][15] General categories of state institutions include administrative bureaucracies, legal systems, and military or religious organizations.[16]

Another commonly accepted definition of the state is the one given at the Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States in 1933. It defined state as a space that possess the following : A permanent population, a defined territory and a government that is capable of maintaining effective control over the corresponding territory and of conducting International relations with other states.

THE ECONOMY GOD DEMANDS SACRIFICE AT EVERY MOON CYCLE!

This is your brain on ideology.

the welfare state merely treats symptoms of a larger problem. its akin to giving advil to a cancer patient.

if we restructured the economy to give workers more autonomy, then we would need less welfare. right now welfare serves to (try to) close the gap between what workers make and what they actually need to survive.

welfare exists to preserve capitalism. there's a reason conservatives in the uk post-ww2 supported universal healthcare and other programs. they knew if the workers' condition didnt improve then they would just cling to radical, anti-capitalist ideologies again.

and when low-wage jobs are completely automized, basic income will be necessary to maintain economic growth. if people have no money to spend, then the economy will collapse.

Well let's see
Who says its legitimate? The state itself does. How does it ensure this? By its own use of monopolized violence.

What happens if you claim that the state's authority is illegitimate? You meet violence.

How does the state continue its own function and growth? By the use of that which is produced by the people below.

That is a hierarchy which implies two distinct groups of people where one grows off the exploitation of the other.

Marketeers should be thrown into a deep mass of water with a lead-filled boot strapped to them and a parachute.

Strongly disagree.

They should be put in cheap ass housing with no clean water or healthcare. Then, they must spend their days doing back breaking labor for the working class. The women can be sex slaves however.

There won't be any workers when communism gets implemented.

Either you give people something for nothing, or everyone starves to death.