Holla Forums: the party

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Equality_Party_(United_States)

Well Holla Forums, why haven't you joined yet? They are also responsible for WSWS.org which is the most spot on news site on the web.

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slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=30939
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needs more ice picks

wsws is fucking annoying though

JUST

What's your issue with Trotskyism

wooswoos writers are huge autismos, but as a new site they are pretty damn reliable. They aren't known for being dishonest or selective.

no thank you

I haven't *joined* because I'm a shy hikki but I'm voting for them this year.

The Trotsky worship annoys me. The sectarian attacks often rub me the wrong way. But they keep being right about other left-wing movements and their political line is solid and principled.

Their leader is literally an anti-union member of the bourgeoise

Why would a Trotskyist be anti-union?
Aren't Trotskyists reformists? Unions are like a reformist stop-gap between capitalism and socialism. You don't own the means of production but there's more democracy in the work place.

because im not a fucking liberal socdem trying to be edgy

Most self-proclaimed Trotskyist parties have gone to shit or were shit to being with. Trotsky and actual Trotskyists are not socdem or reformist.

I've been to a few of their meetings. They're a rather intense bunch of dudes, which is fine, but they have no PR skills to counterbalance their orthodox trotskyist autism. Some of them have embraced the party with the same intensity of a zealous clergy, attempting to corner and convert newcomers who are merely curious. Not a good recruitment strategy. They are particularly bad at handling questions which require a degree of nuance, either repeating the party line or outright dismissing it. I'm not basing this on how they've treated me, either; mostly others. I do not doubt they know their shit, but they desperately need new blood, which they won't get when their principal recruiters are old men with bad people skills.

Is the Trostkyist= Neo-Cons accusation true?

I only know of LaRouche (pretty much a kook) and Hitchens who supported conservativism at one point.

This.

Honestly, anyone who is still a member of SEP is a fuckhead.

Nah, it's an old Lew-Rockwell conspiracy.
Hitchens just got older and his hatred for muslims won it out over his hatred of capitalism.

Not him, but: Trotskyism doesn't have a good ideological base.

ML has Lenin (theory) and Stalin (practice). If someone claims to be ML and clearly isn't, he can be outed pretty easily. Divergencies within are relatively minor.

With Trotskyism you get inconsistency. This has lead to lack of movement's coherence (Trots sectarianism is absolutely hideous), to ill-defined goals (American Trotskyism basically means "I want to be special snowflake Commie without icky bits"), to Posadism (UFOs? Seriously?), and, finally, to support of porky goals.

When Trotsky was around to set things straight it wasn't that bad (though Leiba wasn't a particularly good person either), but now Trots unify worst qualities of SocDem and Bolsheviks.

Have a read.

Pretty much the only Trots who aren't sectarians or stuck in some weird past are the Socialist Appeal. They're small, but they've got the best ideas.

do you have any evidence for this

They favor an open border policy, if I'm not mistaken.

All fine and good as an endgame goal. but completely idiotic as a here and now policy proposal.

Fuck off WRP splinter groups.

Also wooswoos is state funded, so nope.

[citation needed]

haha

All I'm finding are broken links to a livejournal/blogspot post and democraticunderground posts from nearly a decade ago made by a lunatic asshole.

This. They're consistently right and have solid theory. They believe as Trotsky did that the key is to explain the world as it is simply and clearly to the workers and masses, and the incredible sameness of wsws perspectives is in many ways a testament to their achievements in that regard. They haven't made it attractive or strong in meme game, as it's difficult to achieve that without being inaccurate, unclear or setting yourself up for principled rebuttal (it's a problem I have myself.) Their tactics could use some advancement and we may be able to help.

u funny comerade

...

They're less "anti-union" than "anti-union leadership giving sellout contracts".

That said, I think their criticism in many cases is overblown and colored by the fact that the unions in question aren't SEP-controlled, but tied in with socdem parties.

Best I could find in 5 mins on the train

slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=30939

This. Unions have long since ceased to be genuine organs of workers struggle and workplace democracy and become another arm of management and a tool of the Democratic party. National union executives with six figure salaries are not only out of touch with the rank-and-file, they hold directly contrary financial interests.

Yeah, I've come across that link too, but it's still just speculation.

It doesn't sound impossible, but I've yet to see any concrete evidence besides >lol trots and >yeah I talked to this guy that hates the SEP now and David North is totally David Green

Because I'm a Marxist-Leninist and admire Saint Stalin.

Trots are just CIA controled oposition.

But Stalin said Trots were fascists. This is quite confusing.

Look up the leader. Just do it and fuck your shit up

I bet OP is the annoying ushijima poster