Middle Ages- Fact and Fiction

Libs love the image of the "enlightened Medieval Muslims." They say that Europe was an absolute shithole, and Muslim intervention brought the Renaissance. We all know Muslims were shit, but what about Europe?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Irish_Saved_Civilization
amazon.com/Ornament-World-Christians-Tolerance-Medieval/dp/0316168718
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Philosophers
gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/09/found-it-islamic-golden-age.html
gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/02/islams-golden-age-archaeological.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

WHO FUCKING BELIEVES THIS BULLSHIT.

Well, you’ll want this.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Irish_Saved_Civilization

amazon.com/Ornament-World-Christians-Tolerance-Medieval/dp/0316168718

Not at all, the whole concept of the "Dark Ages" was a renaissance myth. In short, Europeans became Romaboos, and as such saw the fall of the WRE as the worst thing that could ever possibly happen

i would find you documents refuting the meme of the "peaceful" muslim, but just research byzantines and turks.

Everything we know of history is a lie

funny is that the people who spout this never go into detail about it. Its somewhat true, Muslims did bring the renaissance to Europe, when they conquered Byzantium and all the scholars basically took everything that wasn't nailed down and fled to Europe as sandniggers loved to raze and destroy libraries, I'll never forgive those subhumans for destroying the Library of Alexandria.

Fucking leftists, not even once.

Was it not the byzantines that preserved the writings of ancient greece and rome?

nope, but they did advance science and math slightly by combining the stolen knowledge of greek and hindu discoveries.

who the fuck says this? the Renaissance was a result of a bunch of italian merchants and noblemen with shit-tons of money and nothing to spend it on but greek literature, art, and the occasional crazy person who said he could calculate the movement of the planets.

a combination of them, the roman church, and rising kingdoms of Europe

well, sort of, but for the most part greek writings were either propogated by the romans or burnt/stolen from the library of alexandria (muslims, btw)

What an embarrassing belief, holy shit. The Black Death weakening Christianity is what brought it.

Then the people who were leaving Byzantium brought the Renaissance, not the fucking Mudslimes. What are you thinking?

You are forgetting about arab "scholars" talking about "dem aryan wyte wimin in byzantium. dey make ur dick hard "

Let's be honest, Caesar did it by accident. Muzzies say they did because they deemed heretical

Mio Cid please…

Yurop history after Rome, best summary ever.

Trips confirm nostradamus.

BTW, remember that yurop wasnt christian in the "dark ages" most christians were killed, the south was muslim and the north was what fedoras roleplay daily.

i can't count the number of times i found out something i thought i knew about history turned out to be completely false

Even that is bullshit, we've found that much of the preserved records attributed to Arabs were on vellum that dated from the 5th century AD and was sourced in Europe. Basically people esteemed Rome and Greece to the point that they would claim their sources were from Greek shit stolen by the Arabs when they were just Greek shit preserved by by various monks.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God's_Philosophers

This thread was built for me.

Medievalist here, ask your questions, but first read a shortlist of common misconceptions (not including non-politcal/non-cultural misconceptions)
-The dark ages didnt exist, its something roman fanboys invented to signify the time after the fall of the empire, its most common use by medievalists now are to denote the early middle ages (also known as the "viking age") due to the unruly and violent wars the vikings waged across europe.

-the muslim golden age was led by a practice called ijtihad, it was a "do unto others" philosophy that was quickly dissolved and destroyed by sunni "taqlid" followers who believed the quran was absolute law

-europes most famous and prestigious universities were founded in the middle ages by christians who sought to preserve the history of the world

-science was a dedication of christian monks, it was seen as their duty to cultivate science and preserve history

-the british have always been jackasses

I phrased that poorly, what I meant to say was in some twisted logic you could say they brought the renaissance to Europe, but in reality they were just conquering and destroying shit.

It sort of is the case but it all happened way earlier than people think.

Europe was getting its shit together by the 1100s. That's when most of the great universities in France and England were formed. It was the first real renaissance, and put Europe back on the map. They did that without any help from the Muslim world, which in contrast was starting to fall apart. The sack of Baghdad basically ended any real intellectualism in the Muslim world, and its never recovered.


Also what this user says.

where the fuck are you people getting this?

Could even talk about how north african settlements had their own Mediterranean races which were colonized centuries ago by the Greeks. All of which were conquered, raped and enslaved.

Can confirm about science, it's was sort of a holy duty to do science as to try to understand God, as understanding reality as getting closer to God, or something like it

What would yoy say the average person lived like then? We seem to get the impression of "shit covered savages wearing un-tanned hides."

gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/09/found-it-islamic-golden-age.html

gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/02/islams-golden-age-archaeological.html

Mudslimes and Chinks often exaggerate their own accomplishments by amounts which would be unseemly to Europeans. We don't have a concept of "face", for a European being caught aggrandizing is a serious offence for most other races it is how things are done. When scholars modern or medieval take the words of non-whites at face value they are swallowing a packet of lies. Whites consider history to be sacred and as such try to record the reality as they see it, other races see history only as a means by which propaganda is perpetuated.

Even before then, the first "renaissance" was the 800s/900s under the Carolingian dynasty

The dark ages is a huge misnomer, it was one of the most luscious periods in medieval Europe, outside of the epic cultural and domestic implications, it was also a period of huge technological advancement, and scientific discovery. There is a myth floating around that Church was murdering great thinkers of this era, but that's simply not true, not in the slightest. You cannot find one scientist or philosopher killed during this time because it literally never happened.

To name some good things that happened:

- "Carolingian Renaissance" which paved advancements in literature, writing, the arts, architecture, jurisprudence, liturgical and scriptural studies

- Universities where born

- Scientific foundations and principles we still use today where laid

- Under Justinian "Make the Roman Empire great again" the 1rst the Byzantine Empire saw it's golden age. (there was also a huge surge of encyclopedias, lexicons, and anthologies from Byzantium)

Now I could go on, but it's be one sided to say that Islam wasn't in it's prime and glory and didn't send huge cultural, scientific, grammatical, what-have-you, through Europe and the globe, but Europe was certainly not in a dark age.

Anyone have a link to that article about king nigger ordering NASA to make the muslims feel good about their complete lack of accomplishment?

If you survived childhood odds were you'd live a pretty long life, food security was pretty good, they worked a lot less than people today and had a lot more time off, bath houses would have still been pretty common, etc

The issue is that people look at the bad shit, like the black plague or such and such wars and assume the entire several century period was that, constantly

i wouldn't say that.

...

I also want to add that technological progression has slowed down tremendously, If you think about it even thousands of years ago in Ancient Rome they where still using similar technologies to us.

Most people had a in hand money supply equal to about one head of cattle. And most lived in wattle and dawb housing.

Most peasants worked for themselves 200 days a year and for their lord 1-7 days a year(this is on the Continent England was another matter).

Of course the relative conditions varied widely through time and by location. But on average they worked less than we did, were better fed that most other populations of the time(hence they were often around average modern height). This was due to them having the heavy plow and better animal husbandry than any other region. Even Rome was kind of backward when it came to agriculture and in particular the breeding of animals. Europeans took stock breeding to a height never before achieved.

They also ate a lot of fish and had stock ponds because the Church frowned upon you eating a lot of red meat during the week thought he poor did it anyway because they ate whatever was available.

can you elaborate?

Yes, science was seen as the understanding of god, and it makes sense, we still do this in fact, but we replace "god" with "universe" or something similar, god for early and medieval Christians was much like "the force" (excluding the explanation in the prequels) in that it makes up everything of our existence, and to understand god one must understand our existence.


absolutely untrue, again, its the roman fanboys who claim only the romans were smart enough to bathe.
even the peasantry (who were not dissimilar to the average american worker) enjoyed life, they even had the ability to move within the castes, just as rich were capable of becoming poor, the poor were capable of becoming rich.
As for bathing, it would depend on what they worked and where they worked, but they would by most accounts bathe when necessary.

I just remembered something else i should point out, something Holla Forums may find especially interesting
It was a citizen's duty to be armed for battle
While this was not a universal rule, most medieval european kingdoms required their citizens be armed with at least one weapon of their choice, and a bare minimum of armor, as determined by the ruling class.

Weapon control as a result was used within cities
there would often be a piece of wood of suitable length that the entrant to a city would have his weapons compared to, if it met or was below the length of wood, a non-knightly person may bring the weapon on them into the city, were any arms above the requirements, they would be packed together and ticketed, the entrant was to report the ticket and the goods listed on the ticket to the innkeep where they were staying for safe storage. Being caught carrying an illegal length of blade was grounds for expulsion, sometimes confiscation, sometimes imprisonment, especially at night, these same crimes would be considered worse at night, the assumption being you were up to no good.

this only applied while within the walls of a fortified city, outside of those walls many people armed themselves for protection against bandits or bully knights.

I wouldn't say it slowed down. Rome itself was largely stagnant in terms of technology but it imported things like mail from the celts and steel from the iberians. You must remember that during the Roman era it took about 4 times as much labor to produce a calorie of food than in 700AD. Think how much effort was needed just to feed the people. Rome shined like a beacon because it had a huge surplus of slave labor to free up the time of the gentry. Rome had a massive slum outside the southern wall. We today all have 148 slaves worth of machine labor or more which lets us all live like the gentry of other eras, that wasn't possible in Rome which had far fewer animals. In antiquity humans outnumbered cattle, by 100AD chattle vastly outnumbered humans in Europe. There were about 20 cattle for each man(though not owned by each man obviously) by that time. Compared to say China which prior to the 20th century had something like one cow for a hundred men.

As animal labor expands human labor can be devoted to to other things.

What did decline was urban culture. Medieval Europe was based on the manoral system which is very different from the way societies in Antiquity were organized. Vast public works disappeared but things advanced in other directions which are less spectacular but more important like metallurgy.


England starts out much looser in terms of what the commoners owed to the lord then gets downright repressive through time due to a growing population on a small island. The term villain for instance originates with the lowest rung of unhanded peasants in England who turned to crime if they couldn't find work. The Church of England also got anal about land rights because they were afraid that the king would take it from them so the parceling of land was less generous whereas on the Continent the Church just let people us the land and asked for donations(5% of the yield usually) but it wasn't required. That said if you didn't donate when you were able they'd give the lease on the land to somebody else.

Generally a foot or two foot long knife is okay as is a clumb. An arming sword three feet long is too much because then it looks like you are posing as a noble. Remember that nobles were all considered officers of the law and expected to enforce the law.

Everyone had crossbows and spears for their defense and if they were conscripted into a party by whoever was the local law.

There was no other region which was this liberal with the carrying of weapons, most didn't allow it at all.

Byzantium have big influence in these times. As europoor and Slavic descent I can say they gave us alphabet (Glagolitic alphabet).

While a lot of revisionists on Holla Forums will tell you the European middle ages was an enlightened time of supreme scientific achievement and social harmony….it really wasn't.

But by the same token the Islamic world was a despotic shithole as its always been, it was just fashionable for the despots back then to keep a pet philosopher or two and circlejerk with poetry. As hostile as Christianity can be to science, Islam is ten times worse as its fundamental doctrines clash with the scientific method itself.

And as for the Rennassaince, it was brought on as many fine people have said, by Byzantine scholars fleeing Muslim conquest and reintroducing western Europe to Greco-Roman learning. Mudslime "learning" was just Greco-Roman mathematics and philosophy reinterpreted through a Mudslime lense. Europeans didn't bother with the Muslim revision they went back to the source.

Common core obviously

And they had more sex, with less people obviously.


Isabel La Catolica bragged about taking a bath when she was born and before get married.


Wolfs, robins, muslims and vikings made that obligatory, the other option was being rekt.


Its faggotry, just say it.

Stop reading here, american protestantism wasnt created yet.

So no Pope or Cardinal ever charged anyone for heresy and it was all shiny happy. No one ever got called before the Inquisition or told to revise their theories or else, Gallileo's trials are obviously just clever lies to discredit your oh so perfect catholic church.

Go fuck yourself.

...

Underated post

She was behind a jewish expulsion and wanted their economic power to be removed, Gee, i wonder where this bathing twice in her life accusation game from?

the dangers of living made it obligatory, as did periods of political turmoil, people were armed then for the same reasons they are armed now.

The islands get invaded and conquered 5 times in the 1000 year pre-Norman history that we know of. The Normans were just the first fuckers smart enough to realise that if you're busy fucking with the rest of Europe/ the world, your home isles aren't being invaded.
Case in point, we stop fucking with the world for 50 years, leave it to the states, and lo and behold we're being invaded by Muslims.
If the rest of the world didn't want
backstabbing, paying people to fight each other and invading the coasts, then they should have thought of that before teaching the natives that the only way to be safe on our rain-soaked little shitpile was to fuck everyone else before they fuck you.

Well at least you didnt respond with "muh longbows" like sargon.

The last 50 years wasn't your choice anyway, you went into debt fighting a pointless war with the Krauts and then the Americans fucked you.

Well, yurops arent exactly that clean…

Exactly, but right now you have liberals that can survive, in that time "social darwinism" was the norm to the extreme, maybe the local landlord was ok with a free ass, but wolfies didnt care in that time. Even nuns cutted their noses with weapons in that time, but the lack of natural predators has made that obsolete, in this time you dont die eaten by a pack of wolfs or a black bear.

top kek
I'm not going to pretend we wuz good boys who dindu nuffin wrong, but we did what we needed to survive. Have you seen mediveal France? Only thing that kept them off our back for 500 years post Normans was the fact we owned quarter of the land there, and burned and looted half of what was left.
After Henry VI, useless fuck, lost us the 100 years war, our attitude was simply make sure that no-one ever gets few enough enemies on land to think about going after us.

The mods are literal C U C K S. This board has just become a hive mind of moderates who live and die for the notion of Trump being some sort fuhrer with shills pushing back saying he is controlled opposition or going lose. While threads like this are getting bump locked for the last month or so despite having a couple good genuine responses.

The UK was on life support post 1914, though to be fair I think that war would have ended badly for us if we hadn't done anything. We died in 1939, the last 80 years has just been watching the corpse rot. I can't call myself a nationalist. What nation is left?

I wish Churchill had done a better job directing his energy towards Stalin, not Hitler. He was just obsessed with repairing his damaged pride post-Gallipoli.

I also wish the States had done a better job geopolitically post war. For some reason they still viewed us as the threat, rather than USSR. The fact the Suez crisis went down how it did was an appalling blunder. Weakened their allies, made their allies hate them, strengthened their foes. Pressuring us to abandon Africa, same deal. Funding the IRA, same deal. It was some ideologically driven bullshit. "Right to self determination"
I thought we raised you better than that, reality informs morals, not the other way around.
Oh well. Guess they out-Britished us in the end.

One of the mods is probably one of the mental cases who think Holla Forums is only for political news and everything else is an attempt to slide.

Good shit. You guys know any good books/ primary sources on stuff like this, like on daily life in that time, duties and responsibilities between nobles/ subjects, etc?

You were the real threat as an influence on market economy countries in their eyes, they could tolerate a revolutionary socialist enemy but not an Imperialist ally who could potentially compete with Washington for power one day. From day one Washington wanted to tear down European Imperialism and replace it with globalist capitalism.

But no, I think the Empire could have been saved had you not entered into the second World War, Germany would have mauled the Soviets without Anglo-American aid and the Krauts would have been much more in favor of keeping an allied British Empire afloat than say the Japanese. Hell, Hitler had a total boner for the British before, as did many Natsocs outside the naval establishment.

The US and USSR were pretty buddy buddy until the Cold War and as for their treatment of Europe
The United States doesn't have any allies, they have client states, a client state with too much power or acting on their own as in Suez is a problem for them

Pretty much everybody washed their face and hands every day and in the countryside you bathed. But in cities water was considered a major source of contamination so unless you were rich and had really clean water coming in by aqueduct you didn't bathe in a major city. Which was probably smart. It isn't dirt which causes disease but contamination. Though they though of it as bad water causing bad air.

they had entire treatises dedicated to cleanliness, bruh.
as said they washed their hands and face more often than anything, they knew that to remain with filth on you was to spread disease, and also frequently washed away the byproducts of third digestion.

this is our entire problem though, the strong have sacrificed so the weak can thrive, thats what makes metal gear villains like ocelot and armstrong so compelling, deep down everyone knows that they dont benefit us and should be purged, this is likely the reason why the left loves cucking so much, they know they are not real men.


Ive great admiration for it


Instead of rattling off diaries and books and treatises off the top of my head, I suggest going to resources which can lead you anywhere in particular youd like to investigate. For anything to do with martial practices (including the laws surrounding them and weapon culture) fioredeiliberi.org has a forum of knowledgeable people, on that same note, matt easton has several good books on the knightly arts. For the crusades in particular, realcrusadeshistory.com is the ultimate resource, stephen is autistic about the crusades and is a master of gathering primary sources, it offers insight on a great many things, not just the battles themselves, but the people involved, the religions involved and how they were viewed, information on the "northern crusades" and reconquista, etc. Fiore de liberi wrote in his manuals about the dueling culture of the time, Diaries in that same vein are good for information, and poems and songs, while not necessarily accurate stories of real events, help to give insight on the culture at the time, a good book of poems to read is chanson de geste .

medievalists.net is an article based website for easy reading on specific subjects, and finally, resources.library.lemoyne.edu/content.php?pid=210266&sid=1762798 will provide with a list of websites containing primary sources on all kinds of stuff, eyewitness to history has a few entries that are especially interesting, like one detailing the investigation of a murder in london, its straight out of the witcher.

There are also excellent youtube resources:
Knight Errant: all about the knightly arts and armor

Scholagladitoria: the aforementioned matt easton, hes primarily 17th century and forward though

Lindy Beige: Is a complete cockhead, but he does alot of research on medieval life, frequently misinformed, occasionally flat out wrong, but usually I or someone else will be in the comments section letting him know that.

Shadiversity: He is THE entry level source on medieval misconceptions, he even teamed up with james elmslie (a sword maker) to do a great series on the history of the messer (a very, very misunderstood weapon that even medievalists often dont know shit about) He will also alert his viewers if hes ever been proven wrong, so hes solid.

Skallagrim: The aspie of the youtube medievalists, I find him somewhat valuable for his research into off-beat subjects

Metatron: The OTHER aspie of the youtube medievalists, primarly weebshit, but also does videos on misconceptions about europe.

Damn that'll keep me busy for a while. Thanks Bro

Hits me right in the feels. Maybe someday we can make amends.

Sorry bong, but its going to take a hell of alot for us to forget the shit you pulled.
just kidding, ill forgive you if you send 10 pounds (not 4 kilos) of haggis with a handwritten letter from the queen saying "je suis francais, god bless the colonists, sinn fein, cozy gray color theater, here attached is a complimentary cookie, which aint a biscuit"
t. America

t.Christcuck

bump

Do you know any sources for the HRE?

I apologize but im not so much into roman studies, the le moyne sources should still work, just go here to the ancient civilizations page:
resources.library.lemoyne.edu/content.php?pid=210266&sid=1764556

I wish I could give any any better leads, but my area of research is post-roman.

heres a good one about killing kikes:
eyewitnesstohistory.com/rometriumph.htm

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

coulda gone either way, you dont share an ID so im not compelled to think I was mistaken
Maybe hes a brit, maybe not, did you really come all this way just to say that?