So I just made a hardcore originalist(not catholic or protestant etc) Christian exit the conversation angrily with this moral question:
TLDR: Its selfish and unrighteous to do things because it protects your personal eternal soul and to refrain from doing things you normally would to help others because they are sins and will harm you personally
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Example:
Moishe is about to dip 5 babies in a vat of acid.
The bible says you cant shoot Moishe in the head because its all part of gods plan, even what evil people do, and god will sort it all out.
Just let it happen, it says, dont snap his neck to save the babies.
So pretty much what Im saying is - argue that following the word of god is more important than saving lives and punishing evil people until they stop hurting others.
High school is a distant memory.
Im almost 30, and that is not an argument.
And you shooting him in the back of the head isn't? This is like saying the Crusades were invalid because mudslimes raping & killing pilgrims/isolated Christians was part of God's plan. At that point it really just depends on what you've come to understand as justified. Is violence never allowed, or do you have a duty to protect certain people/things/ideals/etc?
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He goes to hell afterwards, evil peoples acts are part of gods plan, and we cant go around trying to save the world remember.
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Crusades were invalid until the Church reinterpreted their doctrine to allow service in the name of God through conquest against their religious enemies, hence leveraging extant European warrior culture in defense of their organization.
Last post not because I disagree with Mr. Nearly 30, but because his revelation is so basic bitch it stopped being amusing to troll fundies with when I was 13.
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Also, the road to heaven is supposedly very narrow.. and very few people make it there.
Its like trying to win the righteousness lottery all for personal gain, seems pretty unrighteous.
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Im not talking about a religion made by a roman emperor which combined aspects of all the religions of rome, including paganism, into 1, calling it a Christian religion as if man speaks for god now.
Originalist Christianity, which is pretty much Orthodox but not.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
Relax Carl.
YOU'RE A FUCKING WHITE MALE!!!
Example number 2:
What is the Christian thing to do?
Nothing.
God will fix it.
What is the moral thing to do?
discuss
brake*
This is why we evangelise (means spreading the faith, converting other people). Would be wrong to be selfish with salvation and not spread it to others.
Also the idea that people only do 'good' because it rewards them personally and is thus selfish is idiotic. The Biblical message is also explicitly not to seek physical reward (Jesus tells us to do good deeds 'secretly', not to be open and arrogant about your prayers or charity or fasting like the pharisees [jews] were). Yes there are 'rewards' in the afterlife, but the idea of forsaking reward in this life to do the right thing encourages righteous behaviour over the selfish. … Although again, I disagree with the idea that we can only do good deeds for selfish reasons; many people desire justice for others even when it serves them in no way. You can bring up the idea of 'virtue signalling' but I know of people who break down and cry at the sight of injustice in the world, people who become wroth when they observe the evil of others. Sometimes people actually are 'righteous'; and thus I reject your claim that all good acts from Christians are selfish.
You do not understand basic Christianity. It is not a jewish or muslim sect where your good deeds are weighed against your bad deeds. It is the acceptance that humans are not perfect since the fall of Adam, and since then have been separated from God. Perfection cannot abide wickedness. Jesus comes to give us a 'new life', we are 'reborn' from the 'new Adam' (who is Jesus). Through Jesus' sacrifice our sins are atoned, He suffered in our place. It is the mercy of God, who became Man, that allows Man to be once more connected to God.
Christianity is about having a relationship with God. The only way to the Father is through Christ.
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Yet it puts extreme limits on what can be deemed "righteous"
You cant judge for yourself, you must let the mechanic continue to make marginal extra gains at the cost of risking peoples lives, given the inability to use a poor legal system.
When you are following the bible that closely and limiting yourself from helping people, are you really being righteous for the sake of being righteous? Or are you merely thinking about yourself, when you make the decision NOT to intervene in someone elses suffering because doing so would be sinful.
Im also using terms like evil and suffering as blanket terms for moral discussion, I dont mean ebil capitalists and suffering africans starving, for example.
Also about your last part, the argument seems to be that by breaking the mechanics hand, youre rejecting christ.
Something about hell is at the end of a christ rejecting life.
If you go around breaking hands to save lives, youve rejected christ and dont know the lord.
So say you still save 20 peoples lives by breaking 50 hands, and dont say sorry for it because you know it was right to break the hands to save the lives.
You go to hell.
But you know youre going to probably go to hell, and that is extremely selfless, how can you go to hell for breaking the hands, when you were doing it to save lives… and while aware that you were risking your eternal soul.
Its a contradiction.
Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.
Ezekiel 33 "… 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'
Exodus 22:2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.
And from that standpoint, is it not selfish for other people to NOT break hands to save lives, because the bible says they will lose their personal soul.
No one is biting the D&C bait today, CTR. Looks like you'll have to argue with yourself to get any action.
Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.
Ezekiel 33 "… 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'
Exodus 22:2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.
Nothing wrong with upholding justice. In fact it is the duty of a Christian. You seem to be taking a few verses out of context and stating the distorted meaning of them as absolute fact. Christians are not pacifists.
Exekial 33 is particularly interesting.
I merely added like 4 points in a few seconds as the progression of thought went in my head, my bad.
sup OP, not sure how much of the Bible you've read but its essentially about submission.
The Old Testament was about Jews submitting to all sorts of rules about everything.
The New Testament is about submitting to Jesus completely, and that's all you need to do for salvation.
You have no personal agency before you accept Jesus and you have none after you accept him. There's nothing you can do to be saved if you don't accept him and there's nothing you can do to not be saved after you accept him. It's why there Christian missionaries spread all over the world with the first settlers and colonialists, and why Christians have no problem going to war and killing children.
Your standard moral hypothetical, whatever it might be is irrelevant. A good Christian will tell you all morality comes from God, and the only real choice you have in life is whether you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
The rest of the stuff they do is just to fit in with society and not have any problems. But they would be perfectly fine living in all kinds of different types of societies, ones you might imagine as immoral or even barbaric.
The reason the Bible is still around by the way is because it is self-contained in it's contradictions. It's both completely for violence and for pacifism, which means it can appeal to leaders and to those being led. Quite a clever treatise on managing a human population. There's a good chance we will use it to as the basis to colonize space, it doesn't look like Islam will survive another 100 years and all the eastern religions are pretty piss weak when it comes to faith and belief, which are the key elements to convincing someone to risk their lives for little to no personal reward.
Christianity is a Jewish psyop designed to brainwashe the masses and is filled with self-contradicting moral sta\tements because it's just a pile of bs and jewish subvertion.
/thread
Nope.
All righteousness comes from the Creator (obviously), all good things flow from God. Order, justice, strength, wisdom, purity, love, honour, duty and so forth are aspects of God.
We are made in God's image. We are called to be like God. We are called to be Christ-like. Any Christian who does not support order, or justice, who does not value family or love, who does not try to live honourably and dutifully; is failing as a Christian.
We are to be righteous. It is true that many Christians are not, and it is true that actions beyond repentance are not required for salvation; but the fact remains that Christians must aspire to righteous in all their ways. Those are the teachings of the Bible.
Both St. Paul and Ayn Rand already got there first, faggot.
Your observation isn't a critique of Christian philosophy so much as its a statement on mainstream society's appropriation of words that its ill-suited to understand by dint of misusing them for so long (e.g. selfish, peace, love, etc).
You must be delusional, there are twice as many muslims as there are white people, their birth rate is 6.0 and ours is below 2.
Dont need to be a math major…
Too many links.
So it is righteous to break 50 hands to save 20 lives?
Jesus didn't have long hair and didn't wear a skirt, though.
merriam-webster.com
> b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality
Sounds like if youre outraged when you do it, its righteous.
Depends on whether or not those 20 people deserved to die or not. If you are stopping justice by killing those who uphold it, you are doing evil.
If you are saving the innocent from the wicked then you are doing the will of God.
Has nothing to do with what I said so I assume I was misquoted, but regardless have some scripture.
Matthew 7:13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Actually you're delusional.
There are 1.5 billion muslims in the entire world and about 1 billion white people.
And the 1.5 billion Muslims? That's mostly niggers and asians.
There are only 300-400 million Muslims in the Middle East, which are our real problem.
The problem is still manageable.
50 mechanics doing bad break jobs was the hypothetical, with simply for example, 20 people not getting into fatal crashes as a result (which youd never be able to predict)
I stopped reading after seeing a sentence started with "so."
1.8 billion muslims, less than 1 billion whites.
One chart says 1.62 but its outdated, they breed like flies. 1 billion whites is being generous, its like 9.something
You have to be ignorant of world history to think Judaism-Lite has any more insight on the human condition than the numerous other ethnocentric cults that exist all around the world today.
There is only power in this world.
And the words of a God, Fool or King will never hold any power.
They will simply convert or stop believing once their countries climb out of third world hell. Theocracy always dies when you educate people because priests don't invent shit and hold back progress in general. The nexus of the world is Eurasia anyway and that will be primarily secular neo-capitalists, India and China.
There's no way the US survives any more election cycles like this one without total civil war and dictatorship by the intelligence services, it will be a silent coup like the end of the USSR or a very violent and bloody one involving the civilian population, same net results.
I doubt some Islamic region will ever gain enough of a foothold to be an economic competitor to the SCO, with the fall of the US empire the Eurozone will be folded into the SCO and the shitty parts of the world you circled will be exploited and subjugated in a more intelligent way, by getting infrastructure and indoctrination into the new system, which is basically worldwide communism and will always shit on religions.
Yeah whites are fucked probably, but it's asians and not browns that will take control. Unless we can beat them to space before the US collapses completely.
Like 50 mechanics skimping out on the hardware they put back on and using old parts that are prone to catastrophic failure to save 30 - 50 - 80 bucks.
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That seems pretty irrationally optimistic to be frank.
I found your first statement
This is not how salvation works in Christianity. Once you accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour, your sins are washed away through His blood. His perfect blood is the ultimate sacrifice and rids us of all sin; we are blameless before God as He suffered for every sin that we have or will commit.
It is only if we turn away from Christ that we will not be saved. The idea of 'cheating God' that jews love is ridiculous; if you have a relationship with God you will not 'cheat' Jesus by having Him suffer in your place; you are in a relationship with God, you want to please Him and do His will (which is righteousness). That is the relationship between Man and God; between Creator and created. We are His servants, committed to doing His will; we cannot cheat Him because to have such desires would make us by definition not a follower of His, and thus not a Christian. After accepting Christ you will make mistakes, none of us are perfect, but so long as you accept Him as your Lord and Saviour you will be with Him forever; that is salvation, that is heaven.
So how far do you have to go to accept him as your lord and savior, just acknowledge him, to believe him him to some degree? To acknowledge that youre risking your eternal soul, does that not in itself admit a belief in god/christ
Same thing happened to the Christian nations. Religion is for poor and stupid people without any hope. But the lizards in the Catholic church are clever and will weave in space magic to keep their jewbingo going for another 2000 years. Islam is basically Scientology for goat fuckers, it doesn't have 2 legs to stand on, one of them is just US government funding, the other is Saudi oil money. Little known fact to most westerners is that muslims once married are super cucked by their wives and feminism is going to implode their religion so fast it's basically a done deal already. Most of the religion was written by a woman, and it's designed to protect women in a barbaric society where they had no rights. Once these uppity bitches taste western values, it's fucking over. Two generations max before complete reformation, women imams, gays accepted etc.
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What's with the christcuck threads suddenly popping up?
Fuck off to your own board, this has nothing to do with politics.
Your erratic, psychopathic and downright genocidal Je(w)hovah is not the Creator.
And in this thread we have people who hate their parents and need to justify their porn addiction/faggotry.
Ever heard of the just war doctrine?
Christ also said that before going out and pointing out errors of others, you should make sure you're not doing the same things you're accusing others of doing.
The Bible doesn't stop you from helping anyone. And you or any human can't assume the position of a moral judge and police the world. The mean doesn't justify the end,
You should try actually reading the Bible before you argue with Christians.
well user one of the biggest things about Christ was his service to others so much so that he gave his lie for all of us. catch is all we have to do is believe he did that, and that he is who he says he is and bam.. your saved
Matthew 25:35-40
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Proverbs 22:9
9 The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.
Hebrews 6:10
10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.
Hebrews 13:16
16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
I hope you find Jesus brother. God bless you.
Was it in the bible?
Although I am agnostic, I believe Christianity is a necessity for the survival of the West. Rampant atheism(+) got us where we are, an age of nihilism and degeneracy. In comparison, Islam is a barbaric religion that does not prevent degeneracy, and Buddhism lacks the historical affinity that Christianity has, while also being way too mystical for the common man.
That's fucking retarded. Failing to protect the innocent when it's in your power to do so is one of the worst things imaginable. Of course the amount of violence used should be the least possible, so Moishe could get a kick in the nuts instead.
Seems to me OP you're ready for the Deist pill.
CHRISTCUCKS BTFO
I see you're going for the highest estimate for Muslims and lowest estimate for whites. Nice fuckery.