Wtf is this

It's just retarded "imageboard culture." Basically it's only there to sound edgy.

...

Based Freddie.

k

go back to tumblr

go back to /r/mensrights

lurk more faggot

as and said, lurk more

we're mostly "feminisits"(although we'd probably prefer the term egalitarian), but we do not support your third wave shit

I think you confuse second wave with third wave feminism.

It´s funny how feminists are so scared of MRAs that they see them behind every bush.

so you don't believe in the patriarchy?

You people are the cancer killing the planet.

So, no.

The society is mostly governed by men, but this does not mean women are excluded from it.

If you're going to argue that the lack of women in government still represents patriarchy, it's because women do not want to partake in politics as much as men do, same shit as the wage gap.

We believe that identity politics is cancer

Maybe do more than 2 seconds of googling before forming opinions you stupid cunt

Maybe do more than browsing tumblr for asspats before forming your opinions you stupid autistic faggot.

tell me what you mean by 'patriarchy'
a Google search gives me these DEFINITIONS:
"patriarchy
ˈpeɪtrɪɑːki/
noun
noun: patriarchy

a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line.
"the thematic relationships of the ballad are worked out according to the conventional archetypes of the patriarchy"
a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.
"the dominant ideology of patriarchy"
a society or community organized on patriarchal lines.
plural noun: patriarchies
"we live in a patriarchy""

I would literally put you in the Gulag first, before all the liberals and fascists.

Well Mr MRA, in case you haven't notice liberalism is the status quo on modern western society. By not taking the idpol pill, we are politically incorrect.
Read the fucking sticking again

Ask yourself, why is this the case? Why aren't there many male nurses or teachers either?

...

Read what I wrote under that:

it's due to them being different, not just physically but psychologically too

Why do have to focus on all this feminist/idpol garbage? Why can't we just focus on the class struggle?

There are marxist feminists, there are liberal feminists - hell there are even conservative feminists.
You don't get to cherry pick

Because you can never be happy with idpol, it's just a nice torture chamber to play in until you get a mortgage.

Focusing on capitalism may actually involve going up against scary security forces and the government rather than fellow dweebs on the internet.

...

idpol pls go

forgot to take off my shitposting flag

What are you doing right now?

also >implying the two are mutually exclusive

Sometimes I wish there were hundreds of different sexes so you could see how fascist you sound.

...

Because its distracting.
Some of us here do believe that communism will right the wrongs of sexism that is in capitalist society, others don't believe there is sexism or don't give a shit if it does exist.
By splitting the the movement you stall insurrection - why fucking do this? We are already so far on the back foot that we're flat on our asses.

lol ok

If all civilisations formed inside of a vacuum before making contact with each other, why are the no matriarchal societies?

Checkmate, feminists.

lol

They are. It alienates the fuck out of the straight white men that we need in the revolution.

...

This is your brain on idpol

...

"OMG CHECK YOUR muh privilege YOU CIS WHITE SCUM"

Exactly

Also, inb4 brocialism not my comrade etc

wow something like 2 teenage girls on tumblr say really represents the whole movement

God you're retarded, most of those fucking posts are fucking fake as well

You sound exactly like Holla Forums lmao

Many marxists say that too, you know.
Also, calm the fuck down.

THIS THREAD AGAIN

Since you have not yet replied to what I said, I assume you either chickened out or accepted that patriarchy doesn't exist?
It's kinda annoying to wait here for a response, y'know.

Also, you are yet to explain to me what 'patriarchy' is by your stanards.

You're all liberals at heart, aren't you?

shit, forgot to change my flag

You literally described what the patriarchy is without even realising it.

exact same rhetoric as slaveowners in the 1800's, citing genetic reasons and assuming it's their natural place in society

What's your ultra-intelligent analysis of why male rape isn't take as seriously? Or why men are called 'pussies' or 'bitches' for showing lots of emotion.

Exactly, it's considered their place in the patriarchal society we live in.

These retards are just too blinded by ideology to see it.

Take off that hammer and sickle flag, "comrade". You dont deserve to wear it.

Lenin would send the cheka after you the second he saw you.

But I need feminism amirite? Clearly I treat women in my life poorly and the system benefits me over them on gender and the choices we all make don't affect us at all?

Gender inequality exists, but you have yet to prove how we live in a patriarchy.

This is the most blatant and obvious dupe.
All of you need some serious help.

what the fuck are you even talking about?

fuck off i'm not buying your bourgeois feminism

yeah, no
women receive choices in which fields they want to go, and they overwhelmingly choose social ones
no one is saying it's their 'natural place', just their preferred one

I don't see how this is related to the conversation we're having about the patriarchy. If anything, it just points out that the patriarchy isn't real considering that it doesn't protect males
As I'm not too educated on the matter of male rape[I realize that it is just as awful as female rape, but I am not too sure why it's not as represented], I will not provide arguments here, unless you insist. In that case, I'll try to chalk down some.

Patriarchy also negatively affects men, as they are expected to me the more 'dominant' sex and show masculine traits, this is why they are often ridiculed for being raped, as they 'always want sex' and only woman can be raped as they're the weak, timid gender.

Why does this matter we can change it under socialism

...

Don't see how that has to necessarily correlate, but okay
That still isn't proof of the patriarchy, by the definition Google used
How about finally giving me your definition of patriarchy and responding to my other argument to which I gave an actual response to?

the way he worded it may make it appear that this is the slippery slope class essentialists walk on. but no, the point is that trying to reform social issues under capitalism is an effort in futility. without a spearheaded attack on capital, exploitation will simply find new ways to reproduce itself and, along with it, find ways to divide and conquer the workers of the world.

Not what i meant. Why should we focus on all these small issues when the so called "patriarchy" can be destroyed when we sieze control of the state?

and let me remind you that, just like identitarians, our main issue with capitalism IS in fact the adverse effects we face socially. our economic situation is, as it were, the foundation on which this is built. don't you think we hate to see each other be discriminated and exploited? it is precisely because of this that we seek to see the forest through the trees. it can therefore be argued that reformists are in fact those who truly lack any true intent on changing anything.

This thread is shit. Everyone in it deserves asbestos.

I'm going to assume you're a shitposter cause no one that's read Marx would say something that retarded

Even you?

It's likely true though, women tend to take different jobs than men due to them being more centred towards more social things, taking less risks, etc., just look at STEM fields for example, the more social the field, the more women are involved.

Yes

because of the material conditions you dumb cunt

It's due to the material conditions of the past when the human brains developed, not the one today.

Care to name a few? I don't see how some rich girl from a rich family who chooses to go into nursing is being oppressed by "muh patriarchy"

When did he say that lmfao

If you go to college you much be rich I know this because I'm poor with a GED

He's implying that. Existence of a patriarchy implies oppression of women. Then, third wavers will use the disparity of STEM students at Yale as evidence

No

Didn't even imply that. I would though.

lol

Yes, he is. The patriarchy means a monopoly of power held by men over women.

all of this fucking humanism

In feminist discourse "patriarchy" is a shorthand to refer to the way the system is structured to benefit men over women. It's not supposed to mean "lolz men control EVERYTHING WOMEN ARE BASICALLY SLAVES"

(read a fucking book)

take off the glasses

you clearly have no interest in changing your mind then

good argument
you're literally Holla Forums-tier

Okay. So point out specifically what you mean. Which material conditions are systemically there to benefit men?

OP, you gigantic, autistic, cherry picking faggot

If all civilisations formed inside of a vacuum before making contact with each other, why were the no matriarchal societies?

dunno

How many fair maidens have rewarded thee with sex?

There were. Late paleolithic, across Eurasia actually.

In a capitalist society, what could be more politically incorrect than revolutionary socialism?

Why did all of them fall to patriarchal societies if both men and women are of equal ability?

Anthropologists believe the change came with a restructuring of culture and society to agriculture.

Before, women were important, seemingly almost religiously deified, because they created life in a tribe. How this trend spanned across Eurasia, in terms of representing women as more powerful we don't know; but given humans had been around for a long long time, it makes sense.

Marx & Engels suggested something similar happened.

I just wanted to meme OP, but in trying to do so I came up with something I had never thought of before.

So is the focus on men due to agriculture because men have a naturally stronger physique suitable for farm work? Or is it because women are more inclined to want to spend their days looking after children? I don't really see why men and women wouldn't have been strong before agriculture, but obviously at some point roles became tradition.

Something like that. Then because human beings are shit that got twisted further and further down the line into more violent means as cultures intermingled. You get things like the Code of Hammurabi.

They were. But the roles were different because seemingly culture evolved in the Paleolithic along the lines of no women having no tribe, putting immense importance on women that evolved into theology.

cause the richies love seeing all the common people fight while turn everything to plutocracy

By no women having no tribe, I meant no women means no tribe. If a woman died in childbirth that would set back anything. If they decided to leave or commit suicide, that would be more of a tragedy. So maternity took on a larger role in culture. Both recorded and god knows before records exist.

"The common people" here are no more educated, they can certainly be wrong. Nationalism and fascism exist for this reason.

Yeah you wouldn't know that the way most feminists use it. We don't live in a patriarchy anyway. Women and men have the same opportunities and legal protections. Nothing prevents women talking on the same roles as men as long as their willing to make the same sacrifices.

Seychelles is pretty matriarchal

Vast generalization and it's not quite so. Besides these are all liberal considerations how to appease society as it currently is, not revolutionary in any regard. You criticize liberal feminism and yet make liberal arguments yourself.

...

What's with the recent influx of /r/socialism visitors lately?

Most teachers were male in the past, actually.

nah you're just acting a fool sometimes

wat

idpol is the cancer killing the left

You don't get my point.

I couldn't read it.

Yes.

Oh fuck off

According to Wikipedia's citation of someone named Herbert Kohl,

"The term “politically correct” was used disparagingly, to refer to someone whose loyalty to the Communist Party line overrode compassion, and led to bad politics. It was used by Socialists against Communists, and was meant to separate out Socialists who believed in egalitarian moral ideas from dogmatic Communists who would advocate and defend party positions regardless of their moral substance."

From this alone, it should be clear how leftists could consider themselves politically incorrect. But in the context of this board, we find other examples. For instance, Holla Forums's general stance on the social justice movement essentially makes it a pariah to much of the leftist elite.

However, this was only a minor consideration in the creation of Holla Forums. Since the concept is simply a leftist version of Holla Forums, the entire name of Holla Forums was retained.

It means we can have a discussion with a crypto fascist like yourself about seizing the means of production without getting b& for calling you an autistic nigger when you point out our micro aggressions.

kill yourself you stupid liberal cunt

Wow, this thread shows that this board consists almost entirely of white, upper class males

Yeah that doesn't work on absolutely ANY level. The working class do not have the same opportunities as the wealthy do. Class based discrimination is completely legal. It's the only form of discrimination that is. A wealthy women can accomplish anything a wealthy man can. A poor women just as fucked over as a poor man. The poor are denied health care, denied education , denied adequate housing, and denied opportunities. The same can not be said for women anymore then it can for men.

It's not a "vast generalization". Women have the same rights as men do under neoliberal society. They can own property, inherit property, and are not the legal property of men at any point in their lives. We don't live in a patriarchy and we haven't in a while. Women are not systematically dsicmrimated against in modern western society. This isn't a liberal argument it's a fundamental material one. Our society shares few characteristics with old patriarchal society. Capitalism does not need to be patriarchal to function in its current form is not one. Women and men have the same legal power. The wealthy and the poor masses do not.

Yeah. No I'm half Palestinian and half black. I'm not white or straight. Why don't you fuck off to whatever shithole you came from. This is a proud brocialist board.

And assuredly, women are not among them and do not have their own problems faced because of it.

Get fucking real you liberal.

Kek what? Are you a time travel from the 16th century? There are plenty of women that rank with the wealthy elite and the vast majority of men are just as oppressed and poverty stricken is the vast majority of women are. What a load of complete and utter nonsense. A wealthy women has just as much power is a wealthy man does. A poor man has just as little power as a poor women does. This just the female equivalent of the Zionist conspiracy theory. Fuck off. My argument is grounded in materialism. Yours is the equivalent of a white nationalist conspiracy theory.

And yet stats show that poor women make less money than the men of the same socioeconomic status. Poor women of color make less than poor white women.

In b4 'muh idpol':
•it's the capitalist system that allows these economic disparities to happen
•only through overthrowing this system can these problems be assessed. I have no tolerance for those who think reform is the answer.

When did I suggest there weren't? Do you get how this works?

Says the man saying nonsense.

Yes.

And this is where you dive into the pool of ignorance and liberalism.

You sound like a fucking dumbass who hasn't read any fucking literature and work you've devoted to believe?

Never

No it is not. Grounded in liberalism.

Nope.

The wage gap is almost completely due to lifestyle choices. I can't believe you actually came to this board expecting anyone to take that shut seriously or even acknowledge it as a valid argument. It's been debunked so many times it's not even worth getting into. Women also earn the vast majority of college degrees and recieve lesser prison sentences. Is that proof of a matriarchy?

By saying that the vast majority of men have as little power as women do I'm supporting liberalism? Yeah I don't think you know what "liberalism" is. It seems that a trend with you idpolers is calling anyone that disagree with you as a "liberal" now instead of a reactionary like before. Pathetic.

You're the one bathing in idpol

can I be a feminist who doesn't believe in patriarchy

can you be a communist who doesn't believe in capitalist?

Yes

...

The only people that have ever attempted to debunk it are lolberts and Holla Forumsacks, and they have failed miserably.

Dumb ass it's not a personal attack on you.

Oh yeah what idpol would that be. A? far I can see I've never spent any time arguing in favor of some special snowflake identity group. It's just projection at this point. You have no valid arguments beyond Holla Forums tier shit about the superficial characteristic of the Bourgeoisie.

Again not the equivalent in anyway. It was completely legal to discriminate against blacks in that way. Like I've said it's been debunked so may times it's not worth getting into. I seriously can't believe some people are actually posting on here now thinking that we take the wage gap seriously . Women and men are paid similar wages for the same level of work.

Yes but surely there a better reasons to explain women's lack of suffrage than "muh patriarchy"

BUT WHY DO THEY MAKE THOSE LIFESTYLE CHOICES

HAVE YOU EVER READ ANY MARX IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE???

Jesus, it's like talking to a fucking brick wall

what about after the civil rights act? Why weren't the blacks just as equal as whites?

Is the second definition off google.
So
Find me a better word.

If all you see us saying is 'muh patriarchy' then you clearly have absolutely no interest in changing your mind and a severe case of confirmation bias

Whew. For a second there, I thought you were to be taken seriously.

Too many people put importance in the Politically Incorrect part of the name, when the only reason it's called that is because it's an offshoot of Holla Forums.

I'm seeing double here. 4 an-com flags.

...

What should I read then

The lifestyle choices are caused by gender roles and biology not "the patriarchy" . Women prefer spending time with their families and don't tend take on stressful jobs. As a result they make less money. Single women in the same careers as men make around the same salary. I don't know where you think you're going with this. Your crazy conspiracy theory has no basis in reality.

Generational poverty and laws and policies that were targeted towards blacks without being blatant like the the drug laws of the 80s. The situation is in no way comparable.

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Muh Biologeeeeee

Yes women spend 9 months pregnant and have children. Men don't have children. This affects their earing potential on average. Once again you have no argument.

Not an argument.

Why the fuck even argue with an anfem. Just ignore the dumb cunt.

If you ignore her then some lurkers will think actually ignore that around here. Help me out fam. If you don't want this place looking like r/socialism in a few months.

And the gender roles come from…where, again?

Oh right, they are leftovers from precapitalist patriarchal society.

real fuckin spooky m8

I'm a welder. Even then, that's akin to Holla Forumsniggers saying JEW SHILL.

I forgot women just popped out kids asexually.

Joking aside, the idea that the woman should be the primary caregiver/be the only one to sacrifice work time isn't rooted in biology; it's a gender role rooted in the idea that a woman's primary purpose in life is to be a mother.

If the wage gap were real, why wouldn't employers exclusively or at least heavily employ women?

Maybe, but I don't think a response longer than 'fuck off' is really worth the effort, not like you're going to convince them

Yeah men don't give birth to children. Men don't carry around a baby for 9 months. A man is also not tied to his children because he doesn't give birth to them. I don't understand how anyone can ignore that. Women without children make just as much as men do because they don't have any distractions from labor or any dependents. It isn't fair but it's not evidence of "the patriarchy" in modern society.

I never said that patriarchal societies don't exist. I said we no longer live in one. Western society certainly was patriarchal at some point but it isn't now. The patriarchal family unit is collapsed, the nuclear family is quickly dying, and men and women have the same legal rights. We don't live in a patriarchy anymore.

Think for two seconds what would happen if every employer exclusively started hiring women while paying them lower rates than men.

Porky needs people to buy their products in order for the system to function. So if suddenly the working class of America only consisted of a bunch of women making shit wages, combined with a large percentage of unemployed men, you would get a nasty little economic crisis on your hands.

Saying you're a leftist but not a feminist wouldn't be controversial even five years ago.

Just because you're loud doesn't mean you're the majority.

How are you this god damn dense?

I didn't say we CURRENTLY LIVE IN A PATRIARCHY. I said our GENDER ROLES ARE LEFTOVERS FROM PATRIARCHAL SOCIETY. So even though our society is NOT a patriarchy, patriarchal VALUES are still held onto and thus affect our social structure.

Do you have a citation that working-class women make the same amount of income as men of the same class?

*working class women without children, I meant

Who says I'm an anfem?

Come on theres clearly more then one here. There's actually someone who seriously thinks that the wage gap shit is valid.

>Porky needs people to buy their products in order for the system to function
Yeah they never think things though like that. If they could save money by using women they would without any hesitation just like they had no problems outsourcing jobs or using slave labor in the past. Women do not get paid less for the same labor as men do.
The wage gap is not caused by gender based discrimination.

Sure. I never said they didn't. Patriarchal social norms however have no legal power and are empty. Women and men don't need to follow them.

If it isn't Holla Forums, then its r/socialism or r/FULLCOMMUNISM.

how about the flag

they may or may not actually believe it but I still don't see how they could ever be convinced. feminism is pure dogma, it's not based on facts, so arguing about it is about as fruitful as arguing with a religious person.

Maybe you just aren't used to leftist movements of the last over a century.

I'm anarchist who's a feminist. I use this flag to piss off people who are easily upset and differentiate myself. I do this in order to spread seeds of discontent among the ignorant leftist masses by corrupting them with sinful identity politik. Mostly.

Also,
What political ideology that involves a state isn't?

Oh yeah, lecture me over them. Doesn't matter that I was part of anarchist movements on my own country.

You're right, only you know.

so you're an anarchofeminist then. good christ. see, this is why i said not to bother.

You're so fucking new to collectivist circles it hurts. It hurts, it really does.

sorry I don't really give a shit about all the varieties of anarcho-special snowflakism, okay, so maybe you're an anarchist feminist rather than anarchofeminist (big difference) but you create that confusion yourself by using that flag.

For one you disgrace the Spanish and the Italians in the anarchist past for supporting women's rights. Especially the Spanish.

But you know it's only identity politics when it becomes inconvenient and isn't at all trying to shut out previous portions of movement for no other reason then offense. It isn't identity politics when it exists to preserve the feelings of men casually involved in collectivist theory.

You create no confusion that your flag represents you're a liberal who deserves to get shot.

suck my dick, choke on it

No thanks, you're busy sucking the EU's

What?

Are you implying that I'm against women rights or that the anarchists were against women rights?
Please do go ahead and tell me more about myself. I'm interested, really.

All politics are a product of class relations. Identities are identities. Class is class.

And that's why every single anarchist movement here is now a joke, or dead. Your COINTELPRO shit killed them from the inside. I could even go ahead and call you a 1st world over pri-vileged kiddo, but sadly I'm not a mautist.

And I can tell that you didn't even listen the .webm I've posted.

Patriarchal social norms however have no legal power and are empty. Women and men don't need to follow them.

And yet they do. Almost as if social norms have a way of being enforced outside of the legal system.

On that note, do you think it's through legal means alone that the capitalist social order is enforced? It's not as if working class people think to themselves "damn, if only it was legal for me to seize the means of production, then my boss would really be fucked."? Nah, since we were babies we were trained to be spooked by our society's norms and mores. Workers don't rise up against their bosses because they are classcucked, not because they don't want to risk imprisonment; they legitimately believe capitalism is natural and right.

No that the anarchists were for women's rights.

Such a rigid view point was never a part of our fight by anyone who isn't the worst parts of collectivist thought. Your fucking leftcoms.

You're the cointelpro shit. Feminism has been a part of collectivist struggle since the First International

You're right I didn't.

content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

ITT: Yet another plebbitor or pol in pebbit's clothing triggering leftypol.

Why are we not ignoring these threads?
It's the same everytime.

The FAQ is there

Can we just .. ignore them?

And I am not?

LMAO. First time being called a left com. Feels bad tho, because the Leftcom-poster usually said pretty dumb things. (Nationalization = socialization, for one.)

Oh, but the North American "FEMINISTS" were kicked, weren't they?

And where did I say that feminism isn't important? It is - but only, and if only, is on an anti-capitalist position. Clinton is a feminist, good enough right?

Good. I know more about you than you do about yourself.

The First? Only one, and he was a man.

Then we never disagreed. Feminism is only good if its anti-capitalist.

Then what the fuck are you arguing with me? Oh you're just a troll.

Go back, and listen to Parenti on Identity Politics.

Or even just fuck off.

told ya

because you were arguing with me.

Like the other anarchist is going to support your shit when you just called them special snowflakes

Looks like class > identity, even for you.

And yes, I will. You're just a troll.

Oh, and who said I am an anarchist anymore?

After seeing how your IDPOL ridden Cointelpro did with every movement I was part off?

I'm not that dumb.

Capitalism is very much reinforced by laws. There called property laws. Theres also a variety of anti-union legislation, tax cuts for the wealthy, taxes that disproportionately effect the poor, disparates in access to health care and educational resources between the rich and poor. Unlike th patriarchy, class hierarchy is still very much reinforced by the legal system. There also vestiges of feudalism left in modern society that doesn't mean we go around talking about the aristocracy and serf rights. Feudalism no longer accurately describes the nature of our society. Same thing with patriarchy.

Idpolers thrive off apathy. They swarm places that tolerate them and ignore them. It's how Holla Forums and the sjws work.

I agree completely but you shouldn't let them spread their dogma with no resistance.

I'm not interested in yuppies and their salaries; I want to know the stats on women WAGE LABORERS.

Dude, I'm aware of all of this. Re-read my post and try again.

I was in this clusterfuck last night, came back and its even worse.
Just throwing it out there on the topic of male and female dominated fields - everyone uses examples like nursing and act as though it is a bad thing that women are in these fields… As someone with friends and family in these "social" professions, I can say that I am not strong enough to go through the emotional toll that they have on a person. My mother has seen countless people die and go through terminal care. I have a friend who is a radiation therapist, another field that is mostly female, and she works with kids dieing of cancer.
The narrative that female dominated fields are somehow worse than male dominated fields really pisses me off because I'd argue that a lot of these areas of work are more challenging on a personal level. If anything they ought to be paid a lot more for the work they do. Hell, nurses don't just deal with the social, it's an extremely physical job sometimes.
Sage because this thread should be anchored.

Yuppies are waged laborers just because they make a good salary doesn't mean they aren't wage slaves. If you're talking about poor women or "the working class" they get paid minimum wage most of the time. The wage gap isn't really relevant in their situation.

I don't know where you're going with this.You should re read my post. Patriarchal values have no power unlike capitalists values . We don't care about the beliefs people hold on this board. We simply want to get rid of the power that allows them to exploit other people using those beliefs.