Thoughts on religious socialism? Not just christian, but other ones like islamig

Thoughts on religious socialism? Not just christian, but other ones like islamig

Other urls found in this thread:

justpaste.it/themuslimhindu
reddit.com/r/islam
reddit.com/r/exmuslim
archive.is/wX0bT
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazdak
mega.nz/#!dVFiRLBI!xqJ5__GFm9_rrsNyIzJg7gmLaun8ldviP9b8nbZUypo
twitter.com/AnonBabble

It can be quite based, even if a bit silly sometimes

It's good duh

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Shalom Holla Forums, why haven't you made shuvah yet and returned to G_d, Torah, and mitzvot? It's the only way to ensure Marxism maintains its redemptive qualities away from the economism and obsession with technological determinism it now possesses.

The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music.

Oxymorons.

i thought this old men knew shit

FTFY

The "socialism" prescribed by Islamic Law is little more than social democracy. Zakat is basically a property tax.

Buddhist socialism is alright. I would not support the rest.

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Meme tier shit

Spooks be spooks. If people wanna hold on to them, might as well have them be lefties.

he's got the morals outside of marxist analysis, the theory just fits with it I guess

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Islam has potential to be revolutionary as it has become the religion of the oppressed due to massive wars/invasions in the Middle East coupled with extreme islamophobia in the west.

Judaism and Christianity, on the other hand, are oppressor religions. Look at the way Jews today behave and what do we see: support for Zionist apartheid and colonialism mixed with extreme racism and Jewish chauvinism. The very core of Judaism is apartheid with its stance on the so-called "Jewish race" being the so-called "chosen people." Islam destroys all racial distinctions and believes no race is superior to another which is why it will be under the Islamic banner which brings forth a communist revolution.

Islam is inherently authoritarian lad. #NotMyComrade.

Oh please. This is a wonderful example of feels before reals.

Assuming your antisemitic ramblings are true, how do you suppose it is that Jews - both secular AND religious - have always played a strong role in socialist movements of all sorts? How was it that two-thirds of the Bolsheviks were Jews? Or the fact that many prominent feminists (most of them Marxist-influenced) were Jews? What about Jewish anarchism?

If you understood anything about Judaism, you'd see how many parallels exist between Jewish Messianism and Marxism, specifically the idea of tikkun.

And yet, Islam barely has any socialist traditions at all.

Now that's BS

PFLP was started by Christians.

Kurds are very unorthodox Muslims who have historically had little support from the rest of the Islamic World due to this.

Baathism is closer to turd position than socialism.

There have been many in the "Islamic world" but they are mostly secular, as they should. Stop this religous socialism meme please

I just didn't like the guy arguing that some religions are better then others with socialism.

Aetheist socialist that lives in a Muslim majority country here. It seems to me this board supports Christian socialists and outright dismisses Islamic socialists. I feel as if you may be biased towards christiany, since you are all westerners with christian heritage.

A lot of us tell rebel to fuck off or kill himself whenever he makes a post, but other then that, I'd agree.

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To be fair, and speaking as an anarchist, one could have an anarchist interpretation of Christianity.

I honestly don't see how one could have an anarchist interpretation of Islam, especially given that Muhammad started a state.

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While marx was against moralfags, marxism is morally supperior to capitalism. People often forget that marx didn't like marxism just because marx was an anti-romanticist.
Romanticism tho is now dead.

There are multiple interpreations of that verse. Also, it's fallacious given that it doesn't prove Islam has any anarchistic qualities, which is what my post was originally about.

The road to communism is:
1) To develop a world wide uber ego that becomes one with the ego of everyone and
2) To help transform individual egos into the social uber ego.
To achieve this extreme homogenization, the flaws in every human would be complemented by the strengths in others, thus filling the gaps and erasing the insecurities in people's minds.

justpaste.it/themuslimhindu

Orthodox Muslims consider identifying with any ideology outside of Islam to be an abomination.

Wow, so if you pick three authors who have written thousands of pages each, you can actually find some short phrases that resemble things said in the bible? this is crazy

and none of these are even remotely meaningful or unique to these two philosophies. One of the quotes is literally about taxing ffs.

And in all of this, no one wants to ask actual Orthodox Jews, practicing Christians, or religiously-devout Muslims what they think of socialism or communism.

Take a look at these subreddits:
reddit.com/r/islam
reddit.com/r/exmuslim

Islam has become a revolutionary ideology due to forced neocolonization of ALL Muslims both at home and abroad. The only way a socialist revolution can happen today is if socialists incorporate Islamic elements.

Burn the heretics vaticanguard now

eat shit and die, christfag

Your post is a prime example of how the modern Left's understanding of power and power relations is fucked up at best.

People who leave Islam don't always do so because they've been "brainwashed" by modernity or consumerism (which happens to be the typical excuse by religious Muslims as to why apostasy happens). Many times, ex-Moose leave due to a falling out with the teachings of the faith, bad teachers, finding Islam incompatible with what they know to be true (I can't imagine being a religious Muslim and a historical materialist, for example), or even things like running away from religiously authoritarian or abusive parents.

Are you really going to tell a 16-year old Pakistani-British girl with an abusive, fundamentalist father who forced her to cover up and was about to marry her off that her apostasy was only to indulge in modern conveniences?

Such as?

hidoi!

k

Rebel, I quite liked your video on Christian socialism. What are your views on Jewish or Islamic socialism?

hi, i'm this guy
can you answer this please

It's good of course, any revolutionary ideology is good and if it can use other ideologies that people care about that's even better


It doesn't "support" christian socialists, I haven't had a very good reception here (whether that's because of my christianity or because people think my conduct is bad I've no idea).

I don't personally dismiss islamic socialism, it's got promise. I think use of religion to spread socialism and the labour movement has been very effective in the past.

I have noticed recently, online in general but especially in places like leftypol, being religious or 'spiritual' is the new cool thing, like atheism was in 2010.

I guess it's a responce to the fact that atheism is now seen as uncool due to neckbeard connotations.

It's sad that people tag on to this shit based on current general opinion. If this were 2010, none of you would even consider 'religious socialism'.

Be religious if you want, idc, but please realise that it's completely unrelated to worker ownership of the means of production, and stop trying to mangle ideologies together to fit in with your special snow flake syndrome.


Funny thing with that Lenin quote about working and eating, he was actually refering to the bible. At the time in Russia you could get away with applying it, but today most leftists disagree with him.

Muke pls go

Yes, I'm a religious Jew and a die-hard communist.

archive.is/wX0bT


There is literally nothing wrong with loving G_d.

well let's be honest, he's not wrong

the new pro religion shit is just yet more reactionary backlash

like how?

Like how I said in my post? Aggressive atheism is uncool and so was responded to with this other bullshit. If this ever gets out of hand, we will go back to atheism.

like how being an atheist is just associated with fedora shit now, sure some of the neocon atheists (sorry, new atheists) were/are pretty cringy but it's dumb that suddenly religion is trendy again

aggressive atheism isn't "uncool". It's just annoying and autistic. It deserves to be shunned; it was a fad.


I don't associate atheism with fedora shit. I associate posts like with fedora shit.
That doesn't explain how religion is "le cool thing" though.

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Yes, this is what I believe too. Nice to have someone. Though like I've said I myself am secular. This board has horribly reactionary views on islam. You may as well not oppose imperialism and allow Muslims to get developed culturally like all you enlightened westerners. You people claim to be supporting the international proletariat, but you only do when they are of western thought

Once again though rebel you wouldnt say that in 2010, and if you did you would get a lot of backlash. You're acting like the general view of atheism is objective when in fact it has changed over time.

Except the majority on this board don't say "fuck Muslims". Rather, we point out the reactionary elements of their culture the same way we point out the reactionary elements of working-class whites in the West, etc.

I would say that in 2010 if you mean "aggressive atheism" in the sense of "hahaha guys God's not real". If you expect me to know what you mean by "aggressive atheism then YOU are the one who is acting like the view of atheism is objective.

Once again you show you can't put yourself in other people's shoes. Nice work lelinist.

Only socialism matters. Rest is idpol.

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There's no one that knows better than me fam, I'm in Pakistan. It seems that most on this board agree that Islam in inherently reactionary and it can't be allowed to exist. I'm sorry, but no here will ever adopt socialism if that is what is preached. Perhaps with decades of eduction, but that isn't going to Happen anytime soon. Why can't you realize saying "fuck islam" is "fuck your culture"

I know that these are really low effort shitposts, but they always make me lose my shit for some reason

What other way is there to mean aggressive atheism? We both know what I'm refering to, I dont see how ne expecting you to understand a term shows I think the view of atheism is objective, when I'm the one flat out saying it's not…

That makes no sense rebel.

No we don't both know what you're referring to, this is exactly what I mean when you say you can't place yourself in others' shoes. You can't even define it apparently.

You already defined it for me

(checked)

No, that was an example. Can you define it?

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By that logic, no one in the West will accept socialism if it means an end to consumerism.

Do you have a endless well of these or something?

Is that wrong?

As a Jew, I hear you. Having been to Israel ("the Zionist entity") plenty of times, I can say that there is no way in hell Palestinians are going to just get rid of us in their demands for national liberation. Even with a one-state solution Jews are still going to hold the majority of land and wealth (not to mention, Jews are much more educated), and when you consider how 50% of a OSS of Palestine would be Jews, a simple Mugabe-style land reform isn't really a solution. The only way for Israeli society to change AT ALL is with a Liberation Judaism.

Also take into consideration how the birth rates for the Ultra-Orthodox are through the roof, and there are settlements where over 50% of the settlers are under age 18. What do you do about them?

Why is Sonic fanbase so fucking autistic?

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Fucking give me an one way ticket to hell fam cause i cant take that shit.

Take a guess..

My main problem is with authoritarian forms of religion, they preach that the words in their respective holy scripture are to be interpreted literally and that all of mankind is subservient to god, the church and the prophet's.

These forms of religion are not compatible with socialism/communism. We must not tolerate religion which forces one to be subservient to a possibly fictional power. As these religions/religious strands are inherently reactionary and contradict ideas surrounding the liberation of the general populace from the evils of modern capitalism. Historically, authoritarian religion has been seen to uphold capitalism at every corner and work in its favour.

Any religious socialist/communist movement, must be political first and religious second. It must use various religious teachings as a demonstration for the movement's ideals, but not as the basis. The basis for the ideals should be based within the real political and economic struggles of the populace at large. If this isn't the case, the ideals of the movement could become a bit spooky.

The best example of this is Oscar Wilde in his essay "The soul of man under socialism" in which Wilde quotes various pieces of the new testament in his effort to demonstrate how Socialism and Individualism can co-exist. Wilde himself even states that if Socialism is to abandon the concept of religion, he does not mind, so long as it sticks to the principles of emancipating the downtrodden.


tl;dr

Religious socialist movements should be Socialist with a religious tinge and not religious with a socialist tinge.

Gulag all of them

How many times are we going to have this thread?

Religious people are fine, and yes, this includes the exception you believe exists, unless it's Scientologists or something. This does not mean theology is in any way useful.

I'm with this komrade.

To reiterate my post here: you will never, ever end the occupation of Palestine unless you give the Jews a radical leftist form of Judaism (NOT Reform Judaism, NOT Reconstructionist "Judaism", but a form of Orthodox Judaism that promotes a strong left-wing politic). When 50% of the people between the river and the sea are "zionist colonials" you're never going to be able to just rip them away the way Mugabe did to whites in Zimbabwe. And once again, the Haredim (ultra-orthodox) keep breeding like bunnies to the point where they could easily make up a large portion of Israel's future population. What do you do about them, realistically?

Muslims are the same way. Like Jews, they are far more religious today than they were a generation ago during the anti-colonial struggles. You are never going to win them over unless you create an Islam that's compatible with Marxism.

No.

Keep posting in this thread.

as long as it isn't some cult commune that no one leave its fine

you do realise while the dalai lama was in power tibet had thousands of serfs

No.

Religion is not fine. I will not stand by and let Islam preach the death penalty for apostates, homosexuals and adulterers.

Whose Islam?

Jesus was a socialist.
Islam has anti-socialist sentiment built into its core.

I think the best thing I can say about religion is its still fundamentally at odds with the positivist enlightenment-tier think that defines bourgeois society. IDK if that can at all be put into any use, but its refreshing to see humans that aren't so obsessed with the idea of rationalizing everything.

Explain.

Not really, the golden age of Islam was built on a lot of socialist principles like actually sharing wealth and a deep aversion to stockpiling wealth.

I mean one of the central pieces of the zakat was funding people to buy themselves out of slavery, that's fucking hot imo.

Fuck off this isn't /lit/.

Yet mother is an oxymoron

Zakat is basically a property tax, very close to social democracy.


The "Islamic Golden Age" in reference to the Abbasid Caliphate is an orientalist term. Not to mention, Islam during that time was not "uncorrupted" or "pure" as this was the time when so much from Plato and Aristotle was being injected into Islamic orthodoxy.

Muslims view the actual "Islamic Golden Age" to be the time when Muhammad lived, when Islam was truly pure.

You'll have to get past me first

This entire thread is an autist atheist circlejerk

You guys heard of Mazdak? Dude was a Zoroastrian revolutionary religious reformer and proto socialist in 520 fucking AD. He was ahead of his time and after his death his followers were purged by the elite

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazdak

You guys are all missing the point.

The reason why socialism and religious dogmas don't mix is because so-called "religious socialists" can't see the contradictions in their own religions.

Do any of these "Jewish Marxists" or "Islamic socialists" acknowledge things like, say, menstrual taboos in both religions? Or the fact that both faiths see gender as something attached to biology and God-ordained (meaning, there can be no feminist struggle if socialism is rooted in a religious doctrine)?

Marxism is supposed to destroy metaphysical ways of thinking through DiaMat. No one can give a reason for incorporating religion back into socialism other than "muh feelz" or "Muslims are being bombed, so let's take on the religion of the oppressed".

I haven't read too far into this, but so far it seems like something that might move Buddhism into the position of a religion of choice for socialists for those who are on the fence about it.

mega.nz/#!dVFiRLBI!xqJ5__GFm9_rrsNyIzJg7gmLaun8ldviP9b8nbZUypo

We have this thread every fucking week and the result this time is the same as every other


The entire debate, if there even is one, is stupid because calling yourself a member of a certain religion does not magically rob you of your fucking agency as a human being. If you could predict how people act by reading the holy book of their proclaimed god, terrorism would not even exist anymore

People cling to their faith when shit gets rough because it's all they have. Mass media is full of empty cliches, so they have nothing else to give them a sense of hope and purpose. The radical left could easily recruit these poor fuckers but it doesn't even try because first world leftists are pretentious manchildren that think criticizing religious dogma makes them geniuses. Instead they insist on trying to convince liberal idpol peers that are a thousand times less reasonable because of a lifetime of literal brainwashing

Murder them

Sounds promising, thank you for the upload.
Also thanks again for the Lacan archive a while back. Got a lot of use out of it.

I think most anons are neutral but personally I like you even if I bantz sometimes

That's really not possible.

You can't just pluck someone out of their historical or social context, at least, not in today's systems.

A flag is not a tripcode

Tob zez. Just out of curiosity: given that Communist parties are already tiny minorities in the West, how beneficial do you think it to be to ally with foreigners who are nigh universally reviled? You might as well embrace pedophilia as genuinely revolutionary.

Naive "brown people are magic" Third Worldism.

Genuine question: why do you mince "God"?

1. "God" isn't God's name.
2. The 3rd commandment is about perjury, not using God's name in general.

We write "G_d" in case the name is defaced.

It would be one thing to say there are elements of Islam that could teach something to Marxists and other leftists in the West. But that's really not how these people put it. Instead, they insist with all honesty that orthodox Islam is "inherently socialist", so Western leftists should naively ally ourselves with fundamentalists or Islamic traditionalists.

You're right. It's nothing more than orientalism.

I understand that, but why? "God" isn't God's name, it's an English word. His name is YHWH (or Hebrew equivalent). To me, that's like saying that Obama's first name is "President".

You'll have to ask a rabbi to get the specifics.