Of the 54,374 junior doctors eligible to vote, 68% took part in the poll.
Some 21,459 - 58% - voted to reject the new contract.
Looking at the NUT strike one can only assume politicised coordination.
Anyone here support them. If so why so? I mean they don't even have demands anymore. Simply chucking the toys out the pram.
Was this always only ever about working weekends? If so why'd they spend the first 6 months saying exactly the opposite?
Am I being unreasonable or are the doctors?
Doctors in the UK including junior doctors have very generous working conditions and the BMA has had a dubious hand in maintaining low medical school placements (to maintain an artificial shortage). But I'm not sure I would go as far as to call them selfish pricks, but having conversed with many doctors including friends who've become doctors, they seem to have been brainwashed and put upon a pedestal. I mean they have an incredibly inflated sense of self worth compared to most professions including post grad STEM members, but at the same time paying them less isn't going to solve the woes of the deliberately badly run NHS.
Maybe the new contract is shit?
It does appear that the govt proposal isn't just about the weekend issue; there are other pay and timing differences between their own proposal and the govt's. The govt proposal also demands more hours in total.
I don't know the situation, but instead of assuming people are selfish maybe it makes more sense to consider that they probably wouldn't be willing to lose pay and potentially their jobs if what they were demanding wasn't necessary.
You referring to the graphic here?
I found this a bit into the dispute. I suspect the BMA came up with it as an extreme position in an attempt at bargaining but as you can see from their demands, they were unreasonable. They wanted more money for more favorable hours. But I guess this is how negotiations go.
Anyway, that graphic is quite old now and I'm not sure of it's validity even at the time. Only source was BBC. My point is that they've not even come out with demands this time. They have no interest in reaching a deal. They simply refuse the new contract.
I'd love to hear some of the reasoning behind this. If there is more to it that having to work one Saturday in 4 I'd love to hear it and would of course take back my selfish pricks comment.
It certainly looks that way to the majority of Brits. Not many degrees you can do that guarantee you a job for life at £80k minumum.
I've heard this one before but don't really understand. Who decides how many med school places are available each year?
They're not being paid less. The only case for claiming this was an equality impact assessment that said basically some women who take time out their careers to have kids will lost out slightly. Safeguards have been put in place to avert the worst of this. Other people affected are, tbqh, gaming the system. Working part time, not really progressing through their career, but still seeing all the benefits (current pay is determined by time served, not proven capability). They also 'game' it by working all the weekend and out of hours hours available, essentially resulting in a sorta-committed part timer working 30 hours a week earning more than somebody who works 50 a week at regular time.
All of these solutions are bad. The current rate is best out of the three proposed.
Anyway, the solution should be that with regards to the current rates:
* A basic pay increase to match inflation.
* Extend antisocial hours from 9am on weekdays and 5pm onwards on weekdays (see rationale below)
* Anti-social hours paid at +50% only
Pertaining why I think anti-social hours should be extended, the current government plan undermines the 5 day working week, and concept of anti-social hours. This once widely accepted concept barely exists for most of the working population these days and is in danger of being completely snuffed out.
If doctors can work 6 days a week, why can't you? Well anyway 3rd worlders work 14 hours a day, 6 days a week in places like India and we should never concede this, even if it means propping up an already well compensated aloof minority. For it keeps this idea in the public consciousness so that we may entrench it for all workers in our capitalist society one day.
Ideally there should be just two minimum wages for all ages in the UK (unlike the 4 tiers that we currently have, 16-17, 18-21, 22-25, 25+), a normal Mon-Fri 9am-5pm and +%50 one for all other times with working hours capped for the week (if your day rate is already above that +50% then good for you), unlike the +48 hours averaged over 11 weeks overtime penalty bullshit that we currently have.
In that scenario, doctors can go fuck themselves as they're already grossly overpaid, even now they are, I only support them now as it raises brings the aforementioned issue of weekend and anti-social pay to the public consciousness albeit in a minor way.
The whole system is screwed up, the BMA needs to stop throttling med school placements and doctors need to be treated fairly whether they're new or not.
Apologies, this is actually down to the government. Funding for medical placements come directly from the NHS budget. The GMC merely only supports a limit on foreign students (set at 10% of all placements) because it is considered a drain on NHS resources should they return to their home countries.
I was the user who wrongly accused the BMA of limiting medical school placements.
Please see the following link for a concise overview of the true culprit (citations to reports provided):
hospitaldr.co.uk
The General Medical Council (not to be confused with the BMA which is an union) which does regulate doctors who are fit to practise medicine in the UK, does recommend a limit of 10% on foreign students for medical school placements out of concern that they may emigrate upon graduation.
Medical school funding is drawn from the NHS budget and not the education budget, hence the concern.