So how many people really died under the Stalin era USSR? A google search would always give me pages of "muh 60 million is too low" and I feel like this is pretty obviously exaggerated for propaganda reasons, so could someone give some numbers and context? It will be pretty useful in arguing against the usual "communism killed 100 million" arguement.
So how many people really died under the Stalin era USSR...
Isaac Ward
Cameron Ramirez
Probably around 20 million
Jason Harris
A lot. These things are hard to calculate probably, especially if we have to include famines intentional or otherwise. But I don't think this type of conversion is really productive. It's about as useful as /pol "arguing" whether or not 6 million Jews were actually killed by Nazis. It's seems innocent and then you realized it's just Holocaust denialism and it would be a shame if leftists did the same with Stalin.
Jose Gutierrez
Obviously the proper response would be that even if those numbers are correct, "communism" in the abstract, a form of economic arrangement that has never existed can not and has not killed anyone.
Jaxon Williams
sure, but the pursuit of communism has. I'd say this is where the appeal of reformism comes in. Radical change requires volatility and volatile situations can easily go bad. That's not to say that revolutionary radical politics is necessarily wrong, but most people are conservative out of caution. They want to keep society the way it is because that's generally safer in the short-term.
In order to bring the cautious masses to your side, you need to be able to explain how you envision a revolution taking place and what precautions you will take in order to make the revolutionary process as painless as possible, and ensure that the revolution won't end in a totalitarian dictatorship.
Anthony Scott
The last most reputable figure I heard was 11 million.
Honestly this whole thing has turned into some kind of stupid game for "historians" and statisticians. Because of the nature of the deaths and the circumstances involved, any number could easily be off by millions: that's way, way too many. These numbers mean virtually nothing in terms of debate.
Pic related. You can flip this "argument" on fucking anything. Abstract ideas and ideology can't have death counts, it just doesn't make sense.
John Ross
Gabriel Gutierrez
Much of those events listed are wars or colonialism-related events, the majority of people will not see a clear connection between that and capitalism (ancaps for example would probably make some argument about how capitalism ebin meme nuffin and it's the fault of the state/crony capitalism/ mercantilism/ etc).
While it may seem like a strong argument to leftists, the people you are trying to convince do not necessarily see a link between capitalism and imperialism.
Perhaps it would be more useful to look for figures on death by starvation/ bad working conditions/ human trafficking in capitalist countries.
Chase Adams
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Levi Long
I have more of an issue with people making excuses for the massive deaths under these regimes regardless if the actual number of deaths is less than propaganda or not. It's not much different for me than when a Nazi argues that the death toll of Nazi Germany is exaggerated. Its a lost cause. Just let them have this one and be assured that what you're advocating is not Stalin – especially in your case since your an anarchist to begin with and should have no interest in Stalin apologia.