The age old question

that's a horrible analogy and has nothing to do with this

something that you can hear or that can be heard

by what?

No, it isn't. It makes perfect sense to someone who isn't completely autistic.

That's not an argument. How do you explain that vibrations can only travel through particles like air. How come humans in the vacuum of space can't hear "sounds"? Sound is interpreted by our brain based on vibrations. It doesn't just exist.

I guess something that can hear.
Vibrations in the air can be heard even if they are not.

by who? which being is there with an eardrum?

the arrogance of the human mind

that's peekaboo logic
you can predict it made a sound even if you do not hear it
sound is not the ear picking up vibrations, but the vibrations themselves

No it isn't. They are just manipulating the particles in the air. Sound is when the eardrum picks up these vibrations and converts them into something we recognize and know as "sound".

You are autistic. Arrogance is intrisic in the mind of someone who has lived their entire lives believing that nothing outside of their scope of observance exists.

what I am saying isn't arrogant, it's based on science. The human ear picks up vibrations and then the brain interprets the sound. Microphones do the same thing. Sounds doesn't exist outside of our head, it's just a bunch of vibrations.

Sound is the vibration, that's how it is defined by physics.
The vibrations occur even if you do not hear them.
Beyond that is just arguing over the definition.

The vibrations are sound waves, which is what people are calling sound.
At this point the argument is just about terminology rather than what is actually happening.

Yes, I agree, the vibrations occur, but there is no sound. Sound is a sense.

Don't talk to me about the definition of sound you fucking cuck. I don't care about textbook definitions. I know what sound is and i don't need your fucking dictionary knowledge to realize it. Live a day outside of your own mind, arrogant asshole.

The vibrations are vibrations. Our eardrums and brain makes them sounds.

apparently you don't

That's just not how it is defined.
If there is no one around to hear them, the sounds are not heard.

How do deaf people exist? Is it because their eardrums are fucked up? How come they can't just feel the natural sound that is vibrated through the air?

the vibrations are not picked up. Just think how a microphone works.

I don't know what sound is. Fine.

Sound does not exist to deaf people. Deaf people cannot prove that sound exists. Why should deaf people be expected to believe in sound? That's like an autist believing that normal social interaction exists.

an object (like a speaker) moves the air, creating vibrations and the human eardrum picks up the waves and the brain tells you what it sounds like.

Sound does not exist without a brain to experience and interpret it. How arrogant.

Well, if sound exists everywhere, they should be able to hear it, or maybe their ear is fucked up so they can't. That's my point.

That's not arrogant, you fucking idiot. Do you even know what "arrogant" means?

this

Microphones do not hear.
If a deaf person open ups sound editing software and speaks into a microphone, they can see sound exists by looking at the graphs.

People who can not even experience sound, and whose brains have no ability to even synthesize it's own mental versions of it should have no obligation to believe sound exists, because sound does not exist without a brain to interpret it.

Arrogance is believing that you make the world real, rather than the other way around. If we did not ever exist, would the universe around us exist? Fool.

microphones pick up vibrations, just like the human ear. They are very similar. They have drums that pick up vibrations. They then interpret that as sound

Every local change has global effects of some sort, measurable by outside observers. There are no closed systems.

But microphones do not hear anything, because they do not experience sound. Sound does not exist unless it is heard by a human mind.

Exactly, thanks for finally agreeing with me.

Next thing you know, he'll be proclaiming his belief in god.

No it isn't.

You're welcome! Since you interpreted my sarcasm as agreement, i have no choice but to pretend that you are correct in your assumption!

microphones use drums to pick up sounds and then use software to interpret them.

the consequences of sound implies they do have an obligation to believe it exists.

So do many things, but that doesn't mean that they hear.

that one thread where you wish IDs were enabled

t. An egotistical faggot

I used your sarcasm as an example.

So if humans had no eyes and couldn't see anything, would that mean nothing exists?

No, it means that you can't see anything

An example of what, exactly?

No OP, you got it all wrong. The vibrations are the sound. Sound is not your detection of sound using your ear. That makes no sense, OP.

that sound does not exist

That's not true! If a person is born with no senses, then to him, nothing has ever existed.

Yes

Let me get something straight here, sound is a very specific sense, mentioning other senses is something else all together. Sound and vibrations are different than eye sight and touch.

Okay, so what if I set up a video camera in the forest and left it there, a tree fell while I was gone, and I watch the video once I bring it home? I hear the sound of the tree falling even though no one was there.

No, sound is the vibrations. Your perception of those vibrations is not sound. Sound is not a sense; hearing is a sense.

They are still incorrect to assume this.

hearing is the brain's interpretation of vibrations which we call sound.

Exactly. The perception of the vibrations is not the sound. The vibrations are sound.

yes, the vibrations translate to sound in our brains, they are picked up by our eardrums. Good lad, you are learning.

Oh, okay. SHOW HIM PROOF that things exist.

No. Again, the vibrations (sound) translate into a percept.

The real answer is "who the fuck cares?".

The vibrations aren't sound, our brain makes it sound. Sound only exists in our head.

This.
It's not even a matter of arguing about "what's happening in the situation"
It's just "this word means this" for a word that might not actually be precisely defined, or has multiple meanings. For example, what if a deaf guy is around? What if a deaf guy and a non-deaf guy are around? Does it have to make a sound to another person? What if it's a fucking cat in the forest?

The sensation you hear when sound hits your eardrum is just that: a sensation. Sound itself is vibrations moving through the air.

Hm… Same as time exists only in our head. Time is a concept meant to explain something so abstract as to be completely impossible to imagine otherwise. The universe is so much more complex than human perception. There is no denying this. Prove to me that the complexity of the universe is real, and that my perception is not the only factor in the reality of everything. That's all i fucking ask of you autistic faggots.

wrong

the vibrations moving through the air don't have any sensations. The vibrations that hit our eardrums make it a sensation.

If I pull off a mask but noone's behind that mask,does anyone die?

all I can say is that time isn't linear

You're literally fucking retarded. If I turn my speaker on and walk a mile away, does that mean it's not making sound? No it fucking doesn't because its still playing music, just because nobody is hearing it doesn't mean the sound somehow stops magically.

your speaker is vibrating air, it is picked up by your eardrums. If you walk away and there is no one to pick up the vibrations then it is literally just a drum moving back and forth making the air move.

No.

All is mind faggot. God hears the tree.

One more time. The movement of the air is the sound. Not the mind's percept.

Isn't that they empiricism is kind of retarded when taken too far?

it's vibration.

The tree falling thing. Who posed the question originally and in what context? Was it ever meant to be literal or an analogy or what?

Then explain this

ITT: autists will not believe that anything not percieved by a human is real
Humanity does not determine reality. Our existence does not determine reality. Autists will never understand that not everything that exists can be proven. I have never seen rape, rape is an abstract concept, rape does not exist. This is the epitome of human logic, and to be illogical means to accept that you do not determine existence.

so what is the mind's "percept"?

Would have been 10/10 if you had wrote out "kill yourself" instead of "kys" like a 10-year-old faget.

You don't accept truths that you deem too extreme. You are closed-minded. Reality is too extreme for humans to accept. It seems that it is impossible to force an autist to believe that the very reality around them exists, without their own perception.

An indescribable psychic phenomenon.

Concepts do not exist in the head. They exist in the mind.

How does this prove me wrong? It sounds like some pajeet faggot too.

No, you faggot. Hearing is a sense. Sound is a physical phenomenon

Absolute Empiricism is as retarded as Absolute Logic.

Absolute logic leads to man being defined as a featherless chicken.

Absolute empiricism leads to an inability accomplish any of the things that require abstract logic.

Sound was recovered even though noone was around to hear it.

hearing is the process of interpreting sound. Physical vibrations occur when two or more objects collide with each other.

Another technicality. Either understand and correctly interpret what i have to say, or don't. Don't get technical with me.

lol exactly. You think it's some weird /x/-tier shit, it's just vibrations.

Define absolute empiricism, since you autists are ALL ABOUT definitions. it seems that you can't argue without reading directly from a textbook, or posting a peer-reviewed study to prove what you are saying.

He must be Sargoy of Mossad in disguise.

I'll answer that for you. The people who care are the ones who are aware of their own mortality and the need to find their bearings in reality. They are also the same people who realize that it is our ability to comprehend reality that brings literally everything good in our life and the more full is our comprehension the greater is the good. Now a question like OP's by itself might sound stupid, but if you isolate any one metaphysical question (a question about an ultimate truth, an absolute) then yes they seem retarded, but taken together your answer to each ultimate informs all those other ultimate, and when contradictions are found you have to resolve them for self-consistency, and in this process of answering each question, you reveal the whole to you. When the whole is revealed to you, you gain an absolute mastery over reality, and whatever mastery you do have already is a measure of the degree of fullness to which you comprehend the whole.

I haven't done any of that in the thread.

Absolute empiricism is relying entirely on observations of reality only.

What are you some kind of Aristotle fan?

...

No. I am an extremely bitter human being, one step away from a misanthrope. I hold an intense hatred for autism in all forms. This means that i hate most "rational" people.

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YES, SOUNDWAVES ARE STILL THERE

heh me too

I was abused and also have shit genetics and I don't really live for any other reason than to piss off people.

soundwaves = vibrations

they are only sound if your eardrums vibrate and your brain interprets it as sound.

He has no reason to attribute those machine-interpreted pictures to that of the idea of "sound". Sound does not exist to a deaf man, even when shown visual evidence, because to him, those software-rendered images are just that– software rendered images. Checkmate, autist cucks.

no it doesn't you fucking retard.
That is the opposite of absolute retard.

he defined it as a 'featherless biped', and someone else called him out on it by showing off the featherless chicken. it was a dumb definition for human but it was not absolute logic.

Holy shit. Marry me. Maybe a relationship between like-minded misanthropes can bring both of us joy in triggering autists.

meant it only once. ech.

but the vibrations are the sound, so that means they still are there. checkmate idiots

vibrations move particles through the atmosphere and create waves which are then picked up by your eardrums, then your brain turns that into sound. That's how you hear music. In a vacuum you wouldn't hear shit, because your eardrums can't pick up the waves. Sound is a human thing, it's also enjoyed by animals that have eardrums and can pick up those waves. Sound itself doesn't occur naturally, it's just interpreted by a body.

that is not how sound is defined

yes it is

sound or hearing is a sense, the vibrations make it so

The problem is that that is EXACTLY how sound is defined. This spawns autistic logic. Autists do not believe sound not percieved is sound.

no

I know, you feel confused. It's okay, I felt the same way at first. Just calm down and think.

I know what you are trying to say
It is simply incorrect

i can't help you then, you'll just have to find out for yourself

Hmmmm what would it take for us to get married though? Btw everything I do always pisses off the world and I bet our marriage would piss off everyone heh.

You're baiting quite hard there

You are right

Still you agree that logic needs to be informed by empirical observation right and vice versa?

By absolute I mean someone who relies entirely on one method and disregards say the evidence of the senses completely or vice versa.

...

Idk user. Where do you live? (not actually asking because i want to marry a random person on Holla Forums, but because i think it's funny that we're somehow so similar)

Somewhere in North America. Do you live on this continent as well?

Wow! I also live in the western hemisphere! We're destined to be together!

imagine that people think particles hitting against each other and creating patterns is the same thing as sound.

vibrations are beautiful

Imagine people thinking that a star going supernova doesn't make any sound at all.

Yeah, it doesn't lol

Might as well say that light doesn't exist without eyes to see it. This argument is absolutely retarded.

Imagine a deaf person sitting next to a tree that is falling down in a forest while there is no one else there to hear it. Why does the deaf person not hear it?

But wait, sound exists all around, so she should be able to hear it, even if her eardrum is damaged.

It's not the same thing. Sound is available through vibrations. If your eardrum vibrates due to the surrounding vibrations. your brain interprets it and then you hear sound.

Yes it fucking is faggot.

So? The point still stands.

light is electromagnetic radiation, that's not a vibration. Lol, this is basic science. The eye sees light that shines through it, the ear feels vibrations that vibrate through it. It's not even similar.

see

yes it is. Vibrations make sounds in the human ear.

What sound is apart from electromagnetic radiation has nothing to do with if it's existence is dependent upon a listener. In fact, the existence of everything isn't dependent on you, but quite the opposite. You will come and go, but everything else will remain long after you're gone.

Are you sure you know what sound is?

Sound is the result of a human eardrum taking in vibrations and the brain interpreting those vibrations as "sound". We call these things sound, they are the things we hear, but vibrations themselves aren't a sound.

Do stars in the sky make sounds in your ear? Do your ears hear a specific sound?

I believe you have the terminology of things mixed up here, which is why there is such a major confusion among us. Sound IS vibration, what you are describing is HEARING, or the perception of sound. Sound be heard through the ears or detected by feeling vibrations, but at the end of the day, sound is vibration. Therefor, the existence of sound is independent of a listener because it is vibration.

I never said that sound was light, I was using a simple analogy to disprove the notion that sound does not exist without a listener.

vibration is a vibration, it just manipulates the particles in the atmosphere. If there is no atmosphere, there is no vibration. Hence, the human ear can't hear it. "Sound" is just something we experience, it doesn't just travel in space time. It's just a interaction that we have with the vibrations. If sound was an entity and traveled through everything, why can't we hear it in space?

you used a shit analogy. Sound and light isn't comparable.

meep meep if someone was present to hear the sound waves then those waves would be interpreted as sound and therefore the answer is clearly both yes and no it would be yes the tree correctly interacts with its environment in such a way that it could produce vibrations it does not make "sound" because the sound is meaningless tbh no homo

As long as vibrations exist, so does sound. I don't write the dictionary, so arguing semantics is pointless.
It's not an "entity", but it exists without someone to listen to it. All it really is is kinetic energy propagating through a medium.

They are highly comparable. Sure, what they actually are are wildly different, but they do have many parallels. They both propagate through mediums, and they both involve transfer of energy.

"vibrations that travel through the air or another medium and can be heard when they reach a person's or animal's ear."
SOUND IS THE VIBRATIONS
/thread

yeah, as long as there is someone to interpret the sound. If there isn't, it's just a vibration.

Oh yeah? how do you know this? Based on elementary physics, i'd say that it doesn't exist, since it takes an animal with an eardrum and a brain to create the sound.

:(

lol

He's right and the analogy of space you all ignore proves his point

THIS.
This entire stupid argument and thread can be shut down with a simple definition.

Pick up a dictionary, or google the definition of "sound", because it says that sound is vibration. An animal with an eardrum and a brain doesn't create vibrations.

I know, they receive vibrations, exactly my point.

But then how do you reconsile that with there being no sound in space

they keep dismissing this

I know, it's a very Jewish tactic in argument too

That vibration gets converted from a mechanical motion to a electrical signal, not sound.

That doesn't prove anything except that sound can't exist within space, but matter.

It is defined as sound before it reaches any ears, meaning the sound is present even if no living being are around because the vibrations are present. Meaning, you proved my point.

The only way to shutdown this thread is to answer how do we attain knowledge. How do we know reality?

So you're saying that vibrations get converted? How does this happen?

What sort of Fucking non argument is this

By doing the opposite of what the Jews say

So it transcends humans? It somehow becomes sound before it becomes a vibration?

Through specialized sensory neurons that respond to mechanical changes, thus creating an electrical disturbance. It's called neural science.

Our brains create the closest approximation to the real and immediate world by obtaining information through sensory organs, then we come up with a common language to communicate to eachother. That's how.

The only option is to eliminate jew faggots and windmills.

That's basically the same as saying that sound doesn't exist unless if it able to be received
Tell me how this doesn't prove me right

No, we use windmills to get rid of faggot jews

i'm okay with this

I just don't know how "vibrations" and ""sound" mean the same thing

It sure does faggot, if you go by the definition like everybody else on the fucking planet.

It doesn't need to be received to exist within matter, so no it isn't the same thing.

Wow… it's almost as if there are things that exist without us. Color me surprised.

This.

what's so hard for your dumbass to understand? The definition is right here. It's the first fucking word: "vibrations". Sound is vibrations, it doesn't matter if you don't even understand it. Everyone here recognizes that the vibrations are the sound except your stupid ass.

so sound is kind of like some kind of ghost? It just lingers, and people worship it?

...

Nope, it's vibrations.

It literally says a vibration that is heard when it reaches a animal's ear.

so it's like what? What if I was in space and was in a vacuum? Would it like not exist?

vibrations made = sound in the mind of a human

the vibrations are included in the definition you retard. It's part of the having sound.

Are you pretending to have shitty reading comprehension on purpose?

It's ability to exist depends on if matter exists. Since you are the medium, then it can exist. But when there is no vibration present, then it doesn't exist.

It's part of transferring vibrations

which is defined as sound.

Yeah, I don't care about your kike definitions, I am talking about sound variatons

you are deconstructing the entire OP, I don't care about your definitions, the original point is if you can if someone can hear a tree if it falls in an empty forest

...

Oh lordy, lets throw away the dictionary and make up our own words and meanings until nothing we say even has any meaning anymore while we're at it, shall we? Holy shit.

Alright, I'll reconstruct it nice and wrapped up for you then.
A tree falls in the forest with nobody around to hear, it creates vibrations which is defined as sound. Therefor sound is present even if nobody is around.

If you don't agree with the definition, maybe you should go change it since you're obviously the smartest guy here.

What is so special about us that makes sound suddenly exist if we are there? Can you answer that for me?

Okay, fair enough, we'll go back to the original subject. How does sound relate to vibrations?

It doesn't relate to it because it IS vibration. The relation is in what they are.

Oh shit, I am fucked. hehe. I bet you think i'm such a fucktard… sorry.
I

I don't know why, but the way you're typing is giving me a boner. Meep meep, no homo.

dude i'm just fucking around I love being a fucktard

Or maybe it's the fact that the sound, or lack of a sound being made, is a completely meaningless concept if it serves no purpose other than existing is the reason why nobody should care.

If we're still on this ship I want to meet. I want to meet this faggot and punch his face in for the lulz ^^

But what if that gives him a boner?

want to meet? I'll pay you 20 shekels to punch your cock

That's not how you know reality that's how you know some constructed bullshit.

I have a boner too. wtf is this magic?

Obvious yes

20 money?? wtf??

Yeah, but what if that construction reflects reality?

except that's wrong.

What tree?

To exist to be perceived.

Well she is OP's mom…

meant for

Don't know how I fucked up this bad.

sound doesn't just exist, it's interpreted through an eardrum

this is the best meme on Holla Forums

...

it's not a meme

It actually is a meme.

Why?