The Judas Contract

First look at the latest movie,how much is it going to suck?


A few autistic fans of the cartton might get butthurt over original terra so that could be fun iguess.

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Dead on arrival.

...

The upcoming Batman vs. Two-Face movie will slaughter it.

Who's the audience for this? Who out there is demanding an accurate animated adaptation of a comic book from 1984?

This entire thing is baffling to me.

They've pumping out these direct to video animated movies for awhile, some are good while most are bad. It used to focus solely on singular stories but now a lot of them are ruined because they now have a community to continue.

Fucking stop

isn't the 1984 comic the best selling teen titans comic?

This is the desperate actions of a company on it's last legs hoping something will stick.

I would suspect there is a yuge overlap with fans of RLM.

Mike the self-loathing kike Stoklasa

They were suppose to make this shit, ten goddamn years ago but cancelled it because they "felt there wasn't an audience for the project."

I was like, 14 at the time and I really wanted to see it.

Monkeypaw, huh.

See, that's a logical, reasonable thought. Why adapt a story that's over 30 years old and was read by nerds who are now their late forties/fifties? Who the fuck would buy it?

You can make an artistic argument for adapting it, but this isn't art. It's product. For a company churning out animation for a buck, the decision to make a cartoon out of this seems a bit stupid.

The is now that super heroes are more or less mainstream with the success of the MCU. So now DC is trying to cash in as fast as they can instead of trying to actually take their time to really make it work. Because there is no time. They need to churn them out now to get as much money as they can before the craze ends.

This.

I was about the same age and I didn't understand the point of it. They already adapted that storyline for the Titans TV Series. The very popular Titans TV Series that was still fresh in people's minds

I really wish they would stop.

Didn't the whole mainstream craze with live-action superhero movies begin in the early 2000s with the success of X-Men, Spider-Man, and (arguably) Batman Begins, and then proceeded to end around 2012 with the release of The Dark Knight Rises and The Avengers?

At this point, I don't think it would be much of a stretch to say that "mainstream" superhero movies are passed their prime.

Wishful thinking

I'm serious. Everything past that point seemed to lose it's charm.

Of course they're pass their prime but they're still going and will keep going for at least another decade because it's a money fountain.

Oh boy, a classic story…Damian centric? And…there goes expectations. Seriously, would it kill them to just use the New Teen Titans cast instead of Damian and his posse? Hell, the only thing of Damian I want to see is a Super-Sons adaptation and that's because Jon is a great foil to Damian.

Why adapt a current comic book? Nobody reads that shit. Why write an original story? It's bound to be worse than an acclaimed classic.

Shit, I just got done watching Flashpoint Paradox. [AUTISTIC SCREECHING]. 100% pointless nonsense, like fanfiction of fanfiction based on more fanfiction, and doesn't work as a self-contained coherent story whatsoever, even though it's not in-continuity with anything else. The only one of these things I actually liked was Crisis on Two Earths, and that was originally supposed to be part of the DCAU. I have no hope for the future.

Only a handful of them were particularly good before that anyway. Doesn't change the fact that this shit started blowing up after Avengers

Never liked Flashpoint to begin with. It's too dark, it heralded the Nu52, basically killing every single story that is running at the time (for instance, at the end of Generation Lost, they were setting up a JLI return…and then Nu52 wiped that out with its own short-lived JLI run) and really, Flashpoint is all Barry's fault and I can't believe that I rooted for a psychopath more than the hero on this one.

naw
The MCU still prints money like nothing else, hence WB desperate and not all that successful attempts to break into the market

Not completely his fault. It was Pandora's who's subsequently retconned to working for Doctor Manhattan. Or rather worked for as she's fucking dead. But yeah Flash started it then gave them the opportunity to strike and make New 52 universe. Really it's just easier to blame the writers and higher ups that thought any of it was a good idea.

Really makes me wish studios were more open minded about what to do when a specific genre becomes popular. Doesn't WB have any other good film series that isn't part of the DC Universe?

I literally couldn't watch the Justice League vs Teen Titans. Got 15 minutes in and just couldn't take any more of that shit.

Why are these movies pushing for more Damian while having scripts that have Batman put into it in the last minute?

Because Warner thinks Batman is the only thing that sells.

You forget why all this superhero crap was started in the first place.

After 20 years of almost non-stop Batman, I'm very tired of him.


Oh yeah, forgot about Harry Potter. Though, recent stuff has just killed it for me. Anything else out there (Discounting these and the Looney Tunes films)?

I lost my Batman hype a long time ago. He's such a mess of a character. Or rather a product they can't get a hold on for how it should be done.

Adam West got him right, the cartoons got him right, and Nolan got him right. There's nothing left to investigate when it comes to Batman. Everything original has been done.

Adam West sure. Depends on the cartoons but yes. Nolan did not get Batman at all and tried to make him grander than anything shown in the film was. There's no saving grace for Nolan's Batman. The movies are so shit that the only things memorable was a hobo Joker spouting simple philosophy and a fucking terrible ass Bane saying shitty lines.

I get why Batman is there but he barely does anything in these movies. All he does in JLvTT is drop Damian off to superhero daycare and poison himself. In JL:ToA, all he did was revive Cyborg and told him that maybe he could just project Orb's confession that he killed his mother.


I felt that Batman:RotCC could have been a lot better.

He's like the quota character for DC shit now. He appears everywhere in the New 52 comics for no reason.

Jay is the actual jew though

The whole point of the Nolan trilogy came down to Batman needing to learn how to not to be Batman (Something that a few of the cartoon Batmans never learned).

But the only way anything got resolved was by him being Batman. So that's bullshit. Even if that's the case, the concept doesn't work for a Batman who's only around for a few years time that we only know for 3 movies. Also without him having any growing family attachments besides Alfred. Catwoman and every female love interest didn't count because they're all tact on for no reason while… ugh… Robin the police officer is even worse than them. It especially makes no sense for him, who's basically just a guy, is given the Batman mantle. He has literally none of the training Bruce did from the first movie. No experience and no resources. That's ridiculous for him to get the mantle like that

Why does this need to be explained to everyone? Robin is a cop (Specifically, a sergeant). Here's everything you need to do if you want to get that job:

policelink.monster.com/benefits/articles/91-what-does-it-take-to-become-a-police-officer
work.chron.com/police-sergeant-qualifications-15515.html

Sound pretty difficult if you ask me.

As far as Bruce, things were not resolved by him being Batman, in fact things actually become worse, and that's how he ended up down at the bottom of the well in Asia. What got him out of that well was him letting go of everything that got to that point, which was his "need" to avenge his parents.

So what films are in the works now?

Justice League Dark comes out on Monday, Judas is whenever, then there's the Adam West Two-Face film and Bruce Timm's Harley Quinn Fanservice film.
Any others? Judas is the only one I'm not looking forward to in some way.

Side note that I might make a thread on later:
Bruce Timm, almost singlehandedly, with a bit of Dini meddling, made one of the most iconic animation works in the world. I mean that quite literally.

Why don't WB just look at his past work and give him 2 years to spearhead a new DCAU? Even if it's just films. He genuinely enjoys it, and has rarely made an error. TKJ was his only true blunder, but to counter, there was script meddling and funding taken away.

Fucking hyperjews just keep ordering more flash cartoons, half of which dont even get aired to completion, ala Wabbit and Be Cool Scooby Doo.

He's literal no name in Hollywood, outside of the animation circles no one knows about the guy. Hell for the garbage Genndy has to put up with Sony, they at least trust him with directing a film.

user was asking why they don't get him to make a new DCAU

Oh, political play. Timm's got no sway in the higher management areas, they know he's a good guy for the job but others are also trying to nab the position too, with even more influence. That's my theory.

He pretty much ran that section of WB Animation.

The simple answer is because he doesn't want to

Every interview he makes has some mention of being shafted, like GLTAS.

I'd rather have a new DCAU spearheaded by just about anybody than more standalone comic adaptations

Which had nothing to do with Timm himself and everything to do with toy sales, which were corrupted because the Ryan Reynolds GL movie poisoned the well for GL merchandise.

Cartoon Network also generally don't like having to A) pay DC for the rights to create shows based on their characters and B) having to share the toy profits with DC for said shows based on said characters when they could easily make their own shit and keep all the money, like Nickelodeon do. Which is why JLU and Titans got cancelled and why DC shows generally don't live long on CN any more.

Timm, for his own person, is pretty much a big name within the animation ghetto and is more-or-less allowed to do whatever projects he chooses. He was in charge of DC DTVs for many years, and stepped down from doing them because he got bored.

Didn't he get his ass whupped by Damien in the first Damien movie? Honestly, I hated that. I also hate that he was part of the League of Assassins even though he never was in the comics. This will suck won't it.

Yeah why adapt this when the cartoon already did that storyline? I take it this movie won't be good as the Teen Titans cartoon version.

and dropped like a bag of rocks

Was that why he did Justice League Gods and Monsters? Cuz he got sick of doing adaptations all the time and wanted to do something original??

I haven't read the original, but Flashpoint Paradox is like every reason I don't (usually) read comics shoved into an hour and a half. There is hardly any actual plot as such, it's just nonstop exposition and references. You need prior familiarity with about a dozen characters to make any sense of it, and then it still doesn't make sense. Half the movie could be edited out without affecting the story in any significant way.

If you're pondering a question like "what would Thomas Wayne be like, if it had been Bruce who was killed" and can't come up with a more interesting answer than "he becomes Batman, but he's edgier" then maybe writing fiction is not the career for you.

And here's the bigger rub. Flashpoint Paradox is a condensed version of the entire Flashpoint event, yes that includes the tie-ins. In comic book for, most of the stuff would've been explained in a tie-in somewhere. In the movie? You're hamstrung by the run time and just bring in characters…just to kill them off (Hal Jordan, Deathstroke and his band of pirates) or they are just there and just left (Superman).

The animated film was pretty good

Probably too bad that's cancelled.

Shame really

It was not. Shit animation, condensed rushed story that included all the tie ins in terrible ways, and an even dumber death for Reverse Flash than in the comic.

Maybe if it had a decent animation budget.

Still, I think James Tucker knocked it out of the park with RotCC. He's criminally wasted adapting DC's garbage comics.

I don't think he got bored, but rather frustrated working with DC Entertainment. They feel very meddlesome and restricting.

Well, it was their choice to "faithfully" adapt it. For Superman: Doomsday, back when Bruce Timm was still on the team, they condensed the death & return story into something self-contained, instead of trying to follow the source. It still sucked, but it had the Brainiac Attacks writer on it too. At least it basically made sense even if it was dumb, and didn't have characters with no plot relevance showing up and disappearing all the time.

In Flashpoint Paradox, even if you ignore all the pointless digressions and subplots that go nowhere and dumb stuff like Thomas Wayne becoming a master crime fighter in middle age, the basic plot outline all runs on comic book science handwaves or is left unexplained. How did Zoom get to the new universe unchanged? Why does he know what Barry did, but Barry can't remember? Won't it create another "timeboom" (lol wtf, really guise) when Barry breaks the time barrier again? If Barry is familiar with time travel, as he appears to be, why didn't he anticipate something like this happening? Why was Barry able to time travel in the old universe, which presumably had multiple speedsters in it including Zoom, but now needs to kill Zoom to get more speed force? (Seriously, why not just say Zoom has some time travel McGuffin that Barry needs to recover, instead of this goofy "sharing the speedforce" explanation?)

But thanks writers for showing what happened to alternate universe Abin Sur, I was dying to know. Christ.

The usual point of stories like this is to show something about the road not traveled, the inevitability of regret, the grass is always greener etc. This shit is like if you re-wrote It's a Wonderful Life so that humanity would be enslaved by Martians if George Bailey was never born, it's just retarded.

Damn I can't wait for the next one with two-face

If they want to "faithfully" adapt it, doing it in a movie form is just stupid. My hatred towards the Flashpoint event aside, we're talking about an entire universe changed because Barry's mom didn't die. And really, they've done it better in JLA: The Nail, which tells a story about what if the Kents didn't make it to baby Kal-El's rocket because of a flat tire caused by a nail? And they did it in 2 issues.

The only bad thing about that film is Catwoman's voice. Granted I know they got Julie Newmar but the age on her voice shows. Still love this film. One of the best animated DC movies in years.


I've seen clips of Flashpoint and it looks stupid and some of the choices for the changes due to time travel don't make any sense. Was the comic just as bad?

Yup..for some reason, Barry's mom not being dead somehow wind up with Bruce getting killed instead of his parents, the military found Kal-El's rocket instead of the Kents, Atlantis at war with the Amazons etc. The movie is just a condensed version of a shitty event that fucks up with every other ongoing stories.

Butterfly effect

I felt that the pacing was terrible. I noticed there was this strange 1-second gap between the dialog of Batman and Robin that made the jokes fall flat. Catwomans model looked like a walking corpse sometimes and the three main villains personalities were too interchangeable, I mean, if you're using them as main characters, have them DO SOMETHING. I dunno, maybe I'm not the audience for this movie, but if it was animated, James could have gone wilder with the Dick Sprang influences or something.

Barry's younger than Bruce, by around 8-12 years in most appearances.
Barry found his mother when he was 11 and Bruce saw his parents die also at 11 IIRC.

How does that butterfly, user?

Also, Atlantis and Themiscrya were at war for decades, apparently, and Superman was found before Barry was born.

Neato, CP.
At least the bots are getting inventive, I thought this might be an early copy of the film, which I then recalled isn't out for months.

That intro is kind of shit compared to BTAS and Beyond.

The covers thing is nice, but the first one is the wrong batman.

But Bruce wasn't batman

But if Bruce gets killed at the same point as his parents, that doesn't explain how Barry's mother changed it.
Unless Bruce instead gets killed 8-12 years later for some stupid reason, but that's not what happened, as they showed him being young, not an adult.

Even more Bruce's own mom