I frequently see Marxists on this board claiming that Nationalism and Racialism are products of the ruling dominant hegemonic ideology of the global bourgeois designed to maintain their power relationship of dominance/submission, master/slave and exploiter/exploited over the global proletariat. Their logic is that nationalism divides the global proletariat into smaller national proletariat groups which are then psychologically manipulated by ideology to compete against one another instead of discarding nationalist consciousness for class consciousness and, through international solidarity rising up against the global bourgeois. The same logic applies to racialism which divided national proletariat into smaller racial and ethnic proletariat groups that fight among themselves.
This seems to be a rather antiquated conceptualisation of the modern global class landscape. Nationalist values, principles and ideals produce strong, independent, sovereign nation-states which are anathema to the Neo-Liberal oligarchy because they restrict the international mobility of labour. Sublimating nation-states into larger supernational unions under the control of finance-capital like the EU whilst simultaneously utilising the dominant ideology through the mass media and education system to encouraging ideas of globalism, internationalism, cosmopolitanism, multiracialism, "one race the human race" "global citizenship" ect is directly within the self-interest of the plutocracy because it ideologically and cultural deemphasises national consciousness, racial consciousness and the legal and political authority of borders, all of which prevent the maximal projection of bourgeois power.
Racially and nationally conscious proletariat will resist the mass immigration of cheap third world labour reducing national wages, increasing crime and gradually demographically replacing the country's inhabitants, but proletariat raised on a steady diet of liberal-progressive globalist ideas in movies, TV shows and school will be far less likely to resist these incursions. You can dismiss Nationalism and Racialism if you like, but to simply label these ideas as "bourgeois" is simply illogical. They ought to be addressed on their own terms and under their own merits by the Left. No rational logical self-conscious member of the bourgeois would want to encourage German or French nationalism when such political movements and ideologies are direct obstacles to the largest possible amount of profit and productivity the Capitalist can produce.
if you're a nationalist you're just a spooked up retard
Kevin Butler
There is such a thing as left-wing nationalism but it is anti-facist and anti-racist unlike its better known right wing form of nationalism.
Samuel Young
Never let your guard down, user.
Robert Russell
This is the quality of posts I've come to expect from Holla Forums.
Wyatt Adams
Okay, so, assuming we don't have any more immigration, how is it that nation-states avoid competition and absorption by global capital? We hear people like Trump say this all the time that other countries insist on devaluing their currency to drive down US wages, but how does it actually work?
Jacob Smith
OP, you're correct to note that nationalist sentiments have potentially anticapitalist consequences ideologically (i.e. global capital, cheap labour, and political/economic migration). However, unless it is on an anti-capitalist basis that these issues are addressed and discussed, rather than on a "spooky" national sentiment basis, the conclusion will never be reached. While still within the structures of capitalist economy, all these nationalist sentiments amount to nothing, and devolve into racism. Therefore the point must be made explicitly clear that it is capitalism we oppose, and that these globalizing phenomena that we find detrimental are products of that capitalism; they cannot and should not be fought independently, or the whole movement will ultimately be lost.
Luke Russell
What makes yours true and thiers a spook other than you just choosing to define it as so.
Eli Gomez
Their money is cheap so their products are cheap so you buy Chinese rather than stumping up the extra cash to buy american and keep jobs in country.
John Adams
Because global capital does entail open labour markets and a race to the bottom for wages. This phenomenon is not "spooky", it just occurs, quite plainly.
The ideas of racial superiority or inferiority, culture or traditions or whatever, on the other hand, are fairly arbitrary " spooks".
Luke Rogers
You're more than welcome to return to Holla Forums chap.
Andrew Gomez
Nationalism is just tribalism with a state added and if there was no state people would still be tribalist.
There is literally nothing spooky with wanting to stick to people similar to you. There is no real difference between a circle of friends and a tribe. There is no real difference between a tribe and a nation.
Ryan Taylor
And thus by that logic there is no real difference between the nation and the entire human race.
Also, the idea that in order to oppose nationalism you must be a globalist is bollocks. Localism != nationalism, in fact it can be it's antithesis.
Eli Turner
kill yourself along with your hero donald dump
Jayden Brooks
I remember Zizek's recent remarks on how some leftists are trying to combat Not Socialism (europe's rising tide of anti-immigrant right wing populism) with "Socialist Nationalism", when Capital today is truly Global with the emergence on the world market what's with the left retreating from internationalism into nationalism? Shouldn't we struggle on this terrain of what is the hegemonic internationalism, international Capital or international Labor?
Kevin Allen
Traditions can be spooky and cumbersome, but they can also be cherished and beloved by many without regarding how long they've been kept, but rathet how much they enjoy them.
I think floklore and traditions produce plenty of marvellous arts and crafts, without these, life doesn't really seem to be worth living to me.
Sure they are arbitrary, but what does it matter how arbitrary something perfectly harmless is if you can ejoy it?
I don't play identity politics, but I am a fan of the arts, and you really can't have wonderful art without drawing something from a "cultural identity".
And to that end, I think a self-conscious Nationalism that preserves a rich well of unique culture is worth far more than a bland global "unity" will ever be worth.
That's too bad.
Julian Wood
I too enjoy the spooks of my culture. But it is important to understand them as what they are; by their nature fleeting and subject to change.
The culture you call yours will change and develop, there is nothing you can do about it. How it changes and develops, we can collectively guide.
I'm not advocating for globalism, and nationalism is not the only alternative to globalism. A self-conscious local culture that preserves a rich well of unique culture might be worth far more than a bland global "unity", I completely agree. At no point did I call for global uniformity.
The nation state is a specific type of society, and nationalism its defendant. I am not anti-localist.
Matthew Walker
Then I think we're in deep agreement here.
And I just understood something whicj I hadn't thought of before… My Gott the genius of it!.Not only seizing the means of production, but seizing the means culture.
Liberating labour will also liberate culture and national identity, since it will not serve the interest of the bourgeoisie. I was so caught up in the economical and class-relations aspect of a revolution that I completely failed to realize this.
Ethan Rivera
Absolutely comrade. Owning society for ourselves in material terms means owning it culturally and ideologically too, they are part of the same.
Camden Long
Nothing will be lost, everything will be gained. Far more than what I could possibly comprehend.
"The Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan" sounds like a dank name for a post-industrial band.
Bentley Sanchez
As we can see from the SNP, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru, and even the LibDems when it comes to pan-European nationalism.
Aaron James
So artificial competition (ie surplus production, and the disparity between price and value, et c) still exists and no one is closer to move on from capitalism.
Noah Ortiz
Why would I want a strong state? Are you a statist or something?
