One example of a successful communist society. Just give me one

Successfully implementing capitalism is like successfully burning down an orphanage.

Top tier delusion. You might have a point if it weren't for communism being tried multiple times throughout history only to collapse shortly afterwards, end up becoming state capitalists like China, the USSR or Vietnam or a shithole like Venezuela.

But don't worry. Your communist utopia will happen one day kek.

Your reasoning is circular.

yes, all the rich and prosperous countries are capitalist, but isn't that what historical materialism tells us?

It seems like it's another semantics argument
Define "socialism"
Define "communism"

You a fucking ignorant moron? Because the transition from feudalism to liberal democracies that overtook the West was rife with bloodshed. French Revolution, War of the Roses, German unification. Not to mention the fact that the reason the West became so fucking industrialized so quickly was because they leeched their resources from the blood of the colonial peoples they conquered.

Just like any other corporation that exists today, they were enriched by blood and other people's resources and labor. But keep fooling yourself.

No it's because capitalism has been proven to work unlike communism.

Absolutely. It's just far less flawed than communism which has far more flaws and has failed every time it's been implemented or attempted to.

Communism was never implemented, you could say it's an unreachable utopia, but saying it was ever tried is a sign of mental retardation. Do you think it was called USSR and not USCR without a reason?

But here is the thing. Capitalism works hence why pretty much every country and all the richest, best performing economies are capitalist. Meanwhile communism has failed every single time.

Holy fucking shit talk about glass houses and throwing stones. Want to talk about the hundreds of millions people that died thanks to the failed experiment of communism in the USSR or China. Great Leap Forward anyone?

Fuck you commiecucks are delusional idealists.

Let's review:

There has never been a successful communist country throughout history.

All attempts at communism have ended in failure.

The closest communists can get to their ideology is through social democracy which still operates within a capitalist economy (90% of companies in Sweden are privately owned.)

Stay eternally rekt. Gonna go enjoy some capitalist hot dogs on this glorious day.

Like clockwork

I'm not a tankie but the USSR went from essentially feudalism to being a world superpower that was threatening to the US within 25 years and only through pretty much every other significant country intentionally damaging their system did they eventually fall. That's pretty impressive, regardless of how many people got hurt in the process.
By the way the US is estimated to have a total bodycount of 200 million but at least I'm free to shotgun beer and jerk my dick to anime up until the point that we go full fascist in ~20 years but eh.

yes tell me more about how the feasibility of total fucking global economic change can be proven right or wrong in the span of a heartbeat even in terms of recorded human history let alone all human history

...

But here is the thing. Feudalism works hence why pretty much every country and all the richest, best performing economies are feudalist. Meanwhile capitalism has failed every single time.

Holy fucking shit talk about glass houses and throwing stones. Want to talk about the hundreds of thousands people that died thanks to the failed experiment of liberalism in the France.
Reign of Terror anyone?

Fuck you capitalcucks are delusional idealists.

no you dipshit, half countries in the world are shitholes because of capitalism, im from chile, supposedly the best country in latin america, and being ojective, cuba is even better than us.

also, socialism almost always as been frustrated by the US government.

no clethus, capitalism has killed similar ammounts of people (read Le Livre noir du capitalisme) it's only that people die in the exploitated countries and collonies of imperialists nations.

We've had worldwide capitalism for quite a while.

If it isn't successful for the whole world, it isn't successful at all, so whoops.

Again: at what time were all capitalist countries successful?

i fucking hate these threads…
what does it mean to "work"?
what does it mean to be a "success"?

i'm gonna assume it means "the people of that society enjoy a high standard of living", then, i'm sorry to tell you but capitalism is not a success.

on one hand it's true that the first world countries have a high standard of living, however, you cannot naively call them "successes" because they don't exist in a vacuum, they are into a context of a globalized capitalist world. you can't isolate germany as a "success" and ignore brazil or africa. i mean, the only reason that miserable english proletariat you see in 19th century photos doesn't exist anymore is because they are now in southeast asia.

TL;DR:

sorry for shit english etc. etc. i ain't checking the spelling of none of my post and english is not my first language

And the ones that aren't (such as Venezuela) are even worse you idiot.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Also funny how you bring up Cuba. They are starting to liberalize their economy. Like what China did in the 90s!

cbc.ca/beta/news/world/cuba-capitalism-economy-entrepreneur-socialist-communist-1.3509852

Gee I wonder why!

It's because a communist economy is inherently unstable and stagnates to shit unless you liberalize it to allow private commerce.

Capitalism wins again baby.

man they sure are doing well at that what with the vast majority of electronics worldwide being produced by in essence slave labor in china

PS: /r/ing that pic that says "imperialism in the first world" with loads of shit being produced in inhumane conditions

PS2: also i'm a bit disappointed at Holla Forums on this one. i'm new here but this should be a easy topic, you're being too dodgy IMO

Not communism but the soviet union was pretty succesfull

It's funny how nobody has ever bothered to address my simy qiestion.

Give me one example of a successful communist country that did not collapse or transition to state capitalism.

When it comes to increasing the prosperity of citizens, and generating economic growth. Capitalism works while Communism keeps failing.

I never denied that capitalism does not have its flaws, but with all its flaws, it's still vastly superior to a communist state.

One thing I noticed though. People who used to live in ex-ussr countries talk shit about communism all the time while it's campagne leftists on their iphones in the West who praise it like the second coming of Jesus.

Communism has failed empirically multiple times throughout history. It's a fucking idealist ideology.

...

._.

here in chile people live alienated as fuck, we don't have education or medical care, half of us earn less than 456.96877 USD.
in Cuba people have free medical care, food and free education.
im from chile and i have visited cuba (and possibly im gonna move there once i finish my studies) dude, i know what im talking about.

let me guess, austrian school? (pic)

Considering Chinese people became richer and living standards improved after the Deng reforms, I'd say it did.

No Nigger I'm talking about countries like mexico and the congo. those countries are capitalist and clear failures of capitalism

Objective standards show that the quality of life in Chile is better than Cuba. Slice that however you want.

Venezuela is capitalist you idiot.

The fuck? Mexico's economy is doing fine. The violence has to do with the drug war and drug policies. Not fucking capitalism.

m post is not about communism at all, why are you being so dodgy!

my post is about imperialism: it's easy for the first world countries claim success draining resources and cheap labour power from the poor countries. you can't isolate the triumph of capitalism on north america end europe and ignore its failure on the third world.

oh my god that's just retarded, venezuela never was a socialists nation, since there always has been private property and their constitution there' isn't any explicit marxist principle

Uhhh

Bait as fuck.

Yeah but at what cost?
Are you going to tell me all those children starving, oligopolies on all industries and cops killing political dissidents are good things?

that is beside the point.

You didn't think that one all the way through, did you

BTW about all the fuzz on venezuela:
NLR published an article about it today (haven't read it yet)

newleftreview.org/II/99/julia-buxton-venezuela-after-chavez

And yet it works. Even if you dismiss it as being "wage slavery" because people aren't getting paid 50 dollars to flip burgers.

Communism has never worked.

The majority of the Venezuelan economy is privately owned, and the parts that aren't are owned by the state. Nowhere in Venezuela do you see large-scale worker directed enterprise.

I never said venezuela started off socialist you idiot. Thanks to Chavez and his socialist reforms though. The country is in fucking ruin.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Hugo_Chávez_government

So yes, Venezuela is currently socialist.

No it has to do with a retarded and insane drug war. If drugs were decriminalized like what they did in Portugal, pretty much all the violence will cease.

Nothing to do with capitalism.

Not socialism.

Objetive standards show that cuba is above the median in almost every well-being-related steatistics.

the only reason why chile is supposed to be the "best latin country" is because our per capita gpd is above almost any other latin country, but that's just shit if you realise our gini index is high as shit and almost anyone can't achieve their medical care and (good quality)education, without being forced to work like a fucking dogsbody, that, added to our shitty shitty climate conditions, lead us to a depressed society.

also we have a lot of criminality here, thing that doesn't occur in cuba.

crima has everything to do with socialism since criminals are motivated to overcome the awful conditions they live
after drugs are made legal they'll find another illegal enterprise to profit from.

What about all the cooperatives formed, the limits on private enterprises, etc?

People turning to the drug trade in droves, empowering drug cartels to practically become micro states has everything to do with NAFTA destroying the Mexican economy.

1)The current economic crisis didn't begin until after Chavez died. I had no idea he was able to legislate from beyond the grave.
2) Those reforms were barely socialist and had nothing to do with the current oil crisis
3) Venezuela was an even worse shithole before Hugo Chavez. The Bolivar Revolution greatly improved the quality of life for the poorest people that capitalism abandoned.
4)you should probably kill yourself

Capitalism is the reason the drug war started in the first place

Lol.

If this was the case, why do highly market economies like Hong Kong, Singapore, or Switzerland have some of the lowest homicide rates in the world?

because their proplr dosn't live in awful economic conditions like the slums of mexico, they have abetter quality of life

not worth discussing i guess, all your posts are the same, you dodge my argument and say. "yeah it has these deep inhrent flaws but it still """"""""works""""""""(whatever that means), gommemism always fails".

wanna discuss 20th century socialism? can you do it without mentioning the multiple embargos and ruthless sabotages made by the western superpowers?

unitedchans.org/socialism-has-never-worked/

Haha no. The economy was quite shit under Chavez.

blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/03/06/venezuelas-economy-under-chavez-by-the-numbers/

Finally, some good propaganda.

One example of a successful Capitalist SOCIETY. Just give me one.

I said SOCIETY! Not economy, not state, SOCIETY!

just go away ignorant classcuck.

literally not an argument

Wew

Because it's irrelevant. Even more horrible shit happened during the pursuit of communism.

We're not talking about venezuela here, stop bringing that up.
Those stats are inflated anyway.

All humans up until the at least the agricultural age

you can debate each example on a separated thread but it would be dishonest to dismiss it all as "propaganda" in the "lie" sense.

(i'm assume you're the capitalcuck, if your comment is positive i'm sorry)

dude, even "soicalims haz nveer wokred" is not an argument. it's just avoiding to critize a model they don't know how is even supposed to work. but if we wanted an intelligent discussion, so why the fuck are we still arguing with this retard?

Stay rekt commiecuck.

And now they are rapidly declining thanks to the policies. Only a matter of time before Venezuela loberalozes its economy again.

Damage control harder. Those policies are why Venezuela is in ruins now.

Pinochet should have thrown your parents off the helicopter.

I'll explain it again.

Socialism is worker ownership and management of the means of production

"lol but what does that even mean xD"

Think of it like this, in any given society, you have:
Productive labor - The people who produce the goods and services people use every day. As a rule, they must produce more than they themselves use, creating a surplus.
Unproductive labor - People with professions that do not directly advance the productive process. (i.e.- soldiers, firemen, teachers, lawyers, etc)
The Ruling Class - The people who appropriate the surplus created by productive labor and decide how it's used and distributed.

Socialism is a relation of production where that third group has been abolished and its functions distributed to the two former groups, with special deference to productive labor. It isn't the state owning anything or regulating anything if they haven't changed the relation of production. It isn't the the ruling party calling themselves "socialist" if that party hasn't altered the relations of production. It certainly isn't the fucking welfare state, the welfare state being a method of reversing some of the inequities and contradictions of capitalist relations of production. Only when those fundamental relations of production are altered can a society legitimately call itself socialist.

Socialism will always fail if the USA keeps sabotaging it.

North Korea. Ignore the first world propaganda

lolbertarian "reasoning":

no idiot, first read a fucking book.

...

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, if you say otherwise, no matter the side you are, you are wrong.

Nah actually. The Chilean miracle was a real thing. Pinochet was the best thing to happen to your countty. Get fucked commiecuck.

Every fucking time with you retards.

Forget about 1982?

...

Not even a response, just meme spouting.

I don't know why I even bothered trying.

Happened to all latin american countries during the 80s. La Década Perdida nigga.

well that depends on who you ask

if you ask the stalinists and tankies they'll say the USSR and china until deng

if you ask the anarchists they'll say free territory, revolutionary spain and revolutionary germany

if you ask the moderate/classical marxists they'll say lenin's russia

¡oh god! are you retarded or what? the fucking worst crisis ever happened in our country was due to chicago fucking boys!
i thought i said it clear enough

El rajovia poster es chileno?

Oh, strangely enough every single one of those countries were applying full Neo-Liberal policies.

With the help of dictatorships of course. Can't have freedom without a few members of the army dictating how things ought to be done

Because there's no fucking point. All you end up is arguing semantics.

Fucking tiring stuff.

I stand by my original statement. There has never been a successful communist country that hasn't collapsed or transitioned to state capitalism. Communism is idealism.

moral of the story: every flaw of the capitalist mode of production is forgiven because some faggots on china/russia killed some people supposedly in the name of "communism".

so now this is not a topic on theoretical political-economic models but a discussion on historical facts that happened on a given place and time and were subjected to exerternal influences and context.

can't you see that you haven't attacked idea of "communism" a single time in this thread?

you are disguising a critique of Mao/Stalin/Chavez/whoever as a critique to the ABSTRACT model of socialism

you lack knowledge in theory and aren't capable of dealing with my arguments. this discussion isn't fruitful anymore (was it ever? lol)

no, es primera vez que uso esta wea de avatar.

see

There has never been a communist country retard. Communism is a theoretical stateless, classless, moneyless society organized around local autonomy.

What you're thinking of when you say "communism" is Stalinism, or "Marxism-Leninism", and you won't find tons of M-Ls on here. While there is the occasional tankie, most of us don't want a repeat of the USSR.

By upstart dictators with IQs only slightly higher than the Forrest Gump tier people they rule
Again, owned by upstart dictators.

Mexico wasn't neoliberal and was affected.

In fact neoliberalism got Mexico out of the crisis.

Try harder.

what country are you even talking about?

Here's a helpful guide, OP

Don;t forget the biological factors like IQ. Crime rates and productivity depend on average IQ.

mexico never leaved the crisis, they're still in it.

You wound's say.
Do you still think of economics in terms of big numbers good small numbers bad XD too?

Because your arguments are fucking irrelevant.

Your argument

I am not arguing against this. I'm saying that wih the flaws capitalism has, it still has less flaws than communism.

Zimbabwe. No international banks would ever invest anything into a place like that.

fixed

You're trying to bring race into this discussion

And what does zimbabwe has to do with this duscussion?

Don't forget we don't need Chinese slave labor. We did just fine under protectionist policies.

Zimbabwe is what happens when international Marxists look at paradise and say "How can we fix this?"

All the countries of the world are capitalist.

And third world shitholes tend to be far more capitalist than Western nations.

Debatable. It's not pre 1982 levels but it isn't in complete stagnation.

This. Capitalism is as bad as socialism. The only reason captialism "worked" is due to imperialism.

Lmao. And Mexico is booming. Since 1990.

I-ITS NOT REAL CAPITALISM.

IGNORE THE REST, MEXICO IS DOING FINE!

Pls go

Most of these decade old nations in Africa are leftist. Hell, Zimbabwe was a textbook definition of workers seizing the means of production. The took everything from the White colonists and look how well they;re doing now.

you lolbert imbeciles always saying "it wasn't capitalism".

Still doing better than your socialist utopia Venezuela and Cuba :^)

Nope. Nowhere did I say that. Try harder.

Then why are so many of them fleeing to the more capitalist United States?

Like fucking clockwork.

Did you even read the rest of the post?

mexico never was socialist you tit

What rest of the post! there are no arguments left there!

The part you quoted was written in a sarcastic tone.

Nice

Your trying to state an argument I didn't make.

You said the crisis was caused by neoliberal policies, if so then why did ot affect Mexico which hadn't adopted neoliberal polices?

You confuse correlation with causation like a fucking idiot.

I never said thay, but it wasn't neoliberal either. They had a shitton of nationalized industries at the time of the crisis.

What?

And they only went neoliberal during the 90s.

You tell us how Angola is totally socialist without using your special snowflake definitions.

kys

Are you trying to be ironic or are you actually this retarded?

ok, read a fucking book, because there isn't anything between socialism and capitalism.
mexico always has been capitalist

Whatever, pollyp.

OP IS JUST A SHITPOSTER
SAGE AND REPORT

second
how do i sage? (im a newfag)

Holy fuck you are dumb. Just because they were capitalist does not mean they were neoliberal.

Type sage on the email field
Sage stops the post from bumping the thread

Yet the funny thing is that those economies are still doing way better than Venezuela and Cuba.

Capitalism wins again.

Also Brazils economy got fucked hatd recently thanks to their socialist party. Good thing they kicked those cocktroaches out.

neoliberalism, imperialism, fascism, whatever you want to call that, it's just laizzes-faire capitalism in decay.

Nice lies.

heritage.org/index/

The most capitalist are HK and Singapore.

BR Here, PT was never socialist you fucking retard. They did not nationalize any industries and in fact handed over several things over to the private sector, our economy tanked due to several failed economic policies but no one of them were leftist in any sense, in fact we are still better than we were during the neoliberal 90s.

Fucking kill yourself.

There are many different types of capitalism you idiot. Neoliberalism is just one.

Mexico was not neoliberal at the time. They had a shitton of nationalized industries especially when it came to oil which was nationalized by their government.

lmao

hahahahahaha

Also, I find that hilarious considering that both Hong Kong and Singapore are models of "corporatism". But it's capitalism when you like it, right?

That is a measurement of economic freedom.
How does economic freedom correlated with capitalism if the usa and japan are the two are so rich yet so low on the list? Why is chine even richer and yet lower in the list?

B-because t-thats not real capitalism

they're the same shit, since they both create financial inequality.

Their whole ideology was "socialism of the 21st century" retard. They fucked the country up hard.

Economic freedom = less regulations on the economy which means a freer market.

No, not really because you are a retard.

Tell me how privatizations and an economy policy are that is to the IMF's liking are socialist.

Again, why haven't you killed yourself?

See:

Whoops linked
By accident

but those same stats show that a freer market dosn't mean a wealthier country

so what's the big difference? both have free market and both privatize their means of production to multinational corporations.

neoliberalism is just capitalism in decay

Tell me, why do you think it's called "capitalism"?

Because socialists are stupid as fucking shit that fuck up every country they touch. Even the dumbfuck hueonkeys realized this hence why the next government will be right wing and set the country on the right path again.

Lol, good work mods.

Fucking idiot.

I never said it did.

For the record though HK and SG are very wealthy countries.

But china is wealthier.

You forgot your avatar.

neoliberalism is exactly the same as capitalism, it's only that capitalism is the concept used to refering the accumulation of capital (which can be achieved by the goverment, or by privates), neoliberalism is the concept used to refering to the decrease of the state in the market.
since nationalizing the means of production doesn't mean to collectivize them, the state is no longer a tool to the peoples interests, and becomes indistinguishable from another corporation. that economic model, where corporations owns the means of productions is called fascism. and as our leader vladimir lenin said once:
"The rentier state is a state of parasitic, decaying capitalism"

fascism=neoliberalism=capitalism=imperialism=neocolonialism

Your implication that the most third world countries that are shitholes being the most capitalist is false. In fact many of those third world shitholes in Africa like Somalia were failed socialist states that ended up improving after the collapse of the socialist regime.

No you idiot. Did you see the HDI report? Chile is ranked higher than Cuba.

Again same shit as "IT ISN'T REAL COMMUNISM BECAUSE THE STATE EXISTS"

Just fucking semantics.

Have you ever stopped and wondered why your "true communism/socialism" doesn't exist? Because it's a fantasy with no basis in reality. All attempts at it have failed and collapsed.

You're doing the same shit by trying to separate neoliberalism from capitalism
pot please stop trying to call the kettle black.

Not per capita.

All neoliberalism is capitalism.

Not all capitalism is neoliberalism.

Get that through your head.

look dipshit, HDI has to do with percapita wealth.

neoliberalism implies monopolio, state capitalism implies monopolio.

"capitalism is exactly the same as neoliberalism"

sources: my brother is a fucking economist

Capitalism is the framework while neoliberalism is the policy you idiot.

Again there are different types of capitalism, state capitalism, mixed capitalism, etc.

Neoliberalism just means low regulations, low taxes and heavy privatization. Mexico was not neoliberal in 1982 because it had a ton of nationalized industries, but it was capitalist.

No you retard.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Life expectancy, education, fertility rates and a bunch of other stuff with wealth per capita is included.

Lel at the mods banning me. Still, not a single commiecuck has given me an example of a successful communist country. Your ideology is fucking fantasy.