Net Neutrality

Just kill yourselves.

Because we should give the power to corporations instead.

lol

The entire net neutrality discussion makes me fucking lose hope in humanity.

It's like there's 2 sides to the discussion with hardly any people outside of them; people who are retarded beyond redemption, and people who instantly fall for the simplest kike mind tricks.

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this.
you get what you vote for

Americans actually think like this?

I'm ready to crash fcc.gov with no survivors.

No, it's Bill Clinton's fault for deregulating the telecommunications industry which has had the predictable result of consolidating into a handful of regional monopolies that fuck people as hard and as often as they can.

The mainstream net neutrality debate is missing the point to a level that hurts.

With IPv4, ISP's can look at the sender, receiver, and payload of a packet, and use this information to throttle traffic. In my mind, this is purely an engineering problem (and one that is not solved with IPv6). Even if you pass a million regulations and actually get ISP's to honor them, you still haven't dealt with the fact that it is technically possible to manipulate your traffic. i.e. You are very vulnerable to state actors using the above information. And in reality, because these regulations will not be honored anywhere close to perfect, you will still be reamed by large corporations too.

Attempts to fix this legislatively are moronic, because people _should_ feel pressure to switch away from IPv4. For all of the numerous uses IPv4 has had, the fact is

1) It requires centralized public address assignment
2) It necessitates the existence of ISP's for packet routing
3) It casts off the burden of encryption to other protocols, which would be a good design decision for most protocols, except that IP headers contain sender and receiver addresses. As a result, even if you make the payload impossible to inspect, ISP's can usually determining who is talking to who.

I'm aware that creating a protocol that solves these issues will not be easy, and the fact that there is hundreds of billions of dollars invested in IPv4 hardware doesn't help either. But it is what has to be done if people want to actually solve the problem.

Ol ma'bell
So now I can be fucked by Bugs Bunny for less.

test

-and-

Not worth even 8 bytes in (((their))) list of throttled websites.

literally what. I'm posting to this site over .onion which is almost unberable as it is, and I'm not allowed to post images because some homo admin said so. Half the web is already using misconfigured cuckflare instances which causes me to get blocked anyway, but that's their own choice. If I was a homo American I'd legislate against this and put it under NN.

What I'm against is making it illegal to view certain sites or use certain protocols or any other form of free speech. It doesn't seem that NN has anything to do with that though.

If you're not using an overlay network such as tor,i2p, or Freenet you're using the internet wrong. If you are using an overlay network, by definition, an ISP cannot "discriminate" on your traffic, regardless of NN. The whole point in this is to replace the internet with something sane where random middlemen such as your shitty consumer ISP have no say on anything you do. Eventually the entire internet will just block tor for (((security reasons))) and large masses will move to a closed off network like i2p. At that point, some homo statesmen will lobby for making it illegal to access such networks (since they can't technically do anything about it), and the judges will be like oh okay NN was okay, so this law should be okay too XDDD! And then we will be left with the cancer that is the clearnet. If you haven't already noticed, the clearnet is already mostly cancer.

this.

The fuck makes you entitled for good service? You don't even use an overlay network, you're a cuck and don't deserve anything. You are the problem.
If I don't want to abuse the law against some shitty companies, I'm a bad guy? If you don't want companies to abuse the law against you (DMCA, etc), the first step is to not be a hypocrite.
Anyway, really what I want is $1/month for some 90's speed unlimited bandwidth connection, but the lowest price here is $50 because you can only get a facetube-tier connection. With NN I imagine all that will change is you get a 1gbps connection for $100 instead of $130.

That page didn't tell me anything. An ISP blocking/throttling information doesn't stop free speech since you can always get around it. Regardless of NN, (((defamation laws))) exist, which should stop ISPs from sponsoring fake information. But none of this matters, since people should be using secure mediums instead of the clearnet anyway, and are entitled to. Once that is done, there cannot be any central middleman that can simply tamper with everything you look at.

I don't live in America, nor do I sexually identify as a member of any state.

Well ISPs are shit, but so is everything else consumers get. It's not like the president can just tell people to make good products and services.

Fuck off

literally who?

Okay. If you want to be a nostalgic LARP hacker go ahead but I want fast speeds for porn and shitposting.

i just need internet to pay bills conveniently and telecommunicate. I don't need any internet other than that, in fact I just end up wasting tons of time. And I imagine they can at least make some low end DSL work. too bad the entire market including poorfags demand le fast speeds to view their web 3.0 bullshit

in my previous apartment I used neighbour's wifi because they all had broken by design WPS which lets you right in. (consumers fucking everything over again). it was slow as fuck but good for a year. now there's noone close enough to use their wifi

Holyshit

I literally did not say that.

Perhaps your countries own laws are fucking you over, not businesses.

It's the opposite in the US, telecom has a stranglehold on consumers. NN is the last advantage we have.

Me too and I don't bitch about it.
Because CIA niggers likes to post CP to shut down the place.
True
A misguided choice.
Most of the response that I have when I ask "why do you use cloudflare" is for the cheap bandwidth capability (not even for the anti ddos (well except journalist/news website)).
But their are already some small companies that proposes similar and cheaper services.

true but if they tag x traffic and that your overlay network (or any private traffic) isn't tagged or is tagged in (not paying for more bandwith/speed) then you're fucked.

Do you have any idea how blocking/throttling works or can ?
This is was cost us the guidance of a lot of things.

If you're not using some ISP you don't like, how are they fucking you over?

This wasn't a dedicated post to point out how shitty 8ch's .onion is. It's actually fast these days. I feel sorry for other users who post to "anonymous" imageboards with their bare IP, and I laugh at users who bitch about "data collection" on 8ch.

It's physically impossible for an ISP to provide acceptable (as in acceptable to normies) service and still be able to censor information.

Took me way too fucking long to find this thread. On Holla Forums and halfchan noone seems to even be aware of this, What the fuck is wrong with chans these days

wut

I'm using Comcast, it's the only ISP within 40 miles of me.

What do you mean by physical ?
You hardware/raw power ?
Because it's feasible nowadays.

Censoring doesn't mean removing information has a whole it's also not showing in the first place A or B information, aka omitting information.
Tt can go further than that since nowadays they can also, thanks to bigdata/datamining, give the exact kind of data to X to have a Y result.

There's threads on 4&8/pol/ getting flooded by freetards and comcucks.

/g/ has two threads up and they're the only ones who know we're fucked if it's removed.

I can add someone over goybook and send packets to him encoded in base64, for example, and the "state of the art" ISP filters probably aren't even there yet.

And they're fucking you over? Just stop using them

Something that typically uses IP for transport, as far as I can tell. Can you elaborate?

You're retarded. They could move to a whitelisted internet. Every day that's more viable as "internet" is no more than jewtube, kikebook, pozflix, twatter, and niggerbox live for most people. They could ban 'opaque' TCP flows like was threatened in the early '90s and 99% of people wouldn't even notice.

What are you even doing on Holla Forums?

I just said above even if we only use facebook, we can still communicate whatever we want by simply base64'ing data into private messages.

oh sorry, I didn't know this is just reddit. not an argument. none of you niggers even tried to explain why NN matters

Bullshit. Most of internet traffic now is https, which is "opaque" by 90's standards.

Please disconnect america from the open internet forever.

t. the rest of the world who survived your AOLers being unleashed onto it

I dunno user.
I wonder what is wrong with these boards/chans who have similar admins.
I wonder why is everything is so fucked when people are getting datamined by literally everything (especially the uk).
Nothing can go wrong if we know everything about everyone.
It won't create an enormous wave of distrust among those who knows about it.
It's not like IT companies volunteer hired SJWs then sent them in "opens source" or free software project to work on it and fuck shit up in the community.

Yes
Gnunet simply resolves almost all of the technical issues of the insecure/clearweb.
It removes any centralization standards (DNS, certification authorities etc..)
It also took into account all the problem that Tor has and corrects them.
You can pass any protocol in it thanks to it's design.
You have total anonymity of server and users.
And thanks to all that it's censorship resistant.
youtube.com/watch?v=eM4J7ljCExM
gnunet.org/concepts

Of course gnunet still has to work on the IPvX standards.
Otherwise you would have to make new hardware/standards.
Gnunet specific hardware has already been discussed on IRC.
Except if an entire nation is willing to change their entire networking hardware/standard infrastructure to have a sane internet then it's not possible with just hacktivism.
When you see that most of the web is still on IPv4 and IPv6 has been announced more than a decade ago can you imagine how much time it would take to migrate to an a entire new internet protocol that needs new hardware ?

HTTPS only helps into not compromising the data that is sent/receive, it doesn't stop from one to know where the data is going.
+It inherits the centralization problem of x.509.

They'll use a (((spam filter))) based on entropy/markov chains. Look at what happens to pure noise videos on youtube.

Consider CJDNS. Runs on anything that provides a data stream connection.
The cheapest and best option is a LED transmitter.
ronja.twibright.com/

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-encode data into human language
-encode data in time
-encode data to multiple facebook users
anyway i highly doubt the internet will become just facebook/twatter, because then someone will just make his own ISP and get all the money. by the way such a cucked internet would have video games, which means even more channels to send information

no. what's the problem?

The CAs control the security of that system and the CAs answer to the government. All regular https traffic could be ordered transparent without disrupting users.
Your childishness is showing though, thinking that because something might affect a lot of people or fuck things up it can't happen. Consider what happened in Iran with the Islamic Revolution.

get cucked by markov chains
get cucked by (((server optimizations))) adding random 0-5 second delay
get cucked by spam filter
terrorism :^)
All new games released on Steam (now owned by Oculus) have integrated their chat functionality into Steam, letting developers use Facebook SmartFilter™ for free, lowering server and moderation costs

Not the user you responded to.
What do you not understand when he says that the ONLY isp is 40 miles away ?
Do you want him to get an ISP which is 100 mile or more ?

I'm saying just by moving around in a game you can encode info. Most modern "AAA" games have about 50 channels you can use, not just chat and physically moving around in the world. And what are you saying, they're only going to have a small list of validated games? If we're going full Sharia law, you really wont care much about having access to a convenient global internet. In any case you can't really filter natural language unless people only have a few deterministic ways they can produce text.

I'm saying if your ISP is "fucking you" it's better to have no ISP instead of paying them to fuck you and complaining to your government like a bitch. inb4 >I need internet to watch netflix tho

They're not going to have a small list of validated games, but all the netcode and chat will be handled by an external library provided by Steam to make P2P easier, since it's quite hard to do right.
Maybe they'll add that too like they did in hearthstone, in-game you have deterministic chat, you can only write text freely with your friends. Nobody is going sharia law, it's not needed. Most autists who care about privacy won't have any other friends who do since they won't have any at all. It's more like Brave new World than the Islamic State.

uhh if there's no Sharia law, there's not going to be any big attempt stop stenography, and from all current news, any attempt to stop steno even by government will be poor.

What I meant by this is, if humans were robots, then it would be easy to filter what they say on facebook, but since natural language is ill defined, constantly evolving, and context dependent, it's probably impossible to filter out data packets stenographed into natural language. You could always go for some heuristic bullshit but if you fuck it up too much nobody will use your service.

what are we even talking about now?

getting more off topic:
when someone says (((external library))), i imagine some bullshit like Planetside 2, where the physics is handled by an external library, and the server has no way of validating your position and movements, so we can fly around and teleport

Facebook will do it to decrease the load on their servers. Try uploading a video encoding large amounts of data on youtube - it's impossible. So the ratio of carrier to signal will be abysmal, which will give you an absolutely terrible data rate if applied to text messaging.

You can use markov chains. Also remember that they have loads and loads of data to train neural networks and the like from.

No, the game creators only write the GUI parts, then they just call steam.chat.send(message, type) and steam.chat.addListener(function).

THEY'RE TRASHING THE FLOW OF DATA
TRASHING
HACK THE PLANET

But your exit node's ISP can.

Do you believe American NN laws are supposed to cover Tox exit nodes that don't exist on American soil?

To be fair I think most autists are just going to route their stuff through tor and then maybe another service if shit seems like its about to get pozzed.
Only people I know irl who know about tor are exactly the type of autists to do that and they aren't codemonkeys and they don't know shit about java or the fine tuning of how this works. They just know that it hides their shit when they're typing in looking for their mlp porn.
Alls it would take is word that tor might not have that CNN scarealoo anymore and they'll look for something else.

All I see about NN online is bunch of fear-mongers spreading FUD. End of net neutrality is not a big deal.

So this doesnt affect the civilized parts of the world?

Take this shit to 4chan or something

...

t. Holla Forums

via cloudflare-in-the-middle

t. 12 year old

This. Those who use HTTPS without Cloudflare are slowly being pushed to it via {{{suspicious}}} DDoS attacks.

ISP (and facebook) knows where you connected.
ISP (and facebook) knows that you've sent X paquets to Z people.
ISP (and facebook) knows that you've sent base64 data, you are now on the non-normie list.
Like what was said before censoring isn't only based on removing information.

Corporate surveillance, digital tracking, big data & privacy
media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8414-corporate_surveillance_digital_tracking_big_data_privacy
cdn.chiefmartec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/marketing_technology_landscape_2016_3000px.jpg

Data collection, psychographic profiling, and their impact on politics
youtube.com/watch?v=HUm9hV9KPy0

The Power of Big Data and Psychographics
youtube.com/watch?v=n8Dd5aVXLCc

You forgot pedos and nazis.

This

That's a naive notion of how history played out. There were honestly more small-time ISP's around back then because there wasn't a dirth of regulation, and uncertainty of enforcement caused by the nature of Title 2 Regulation.
Internet infrastructure was a cash cow that couldn't be stopped.
Certainly certain portions of communications got reclassed under Title 1 Regulations, but it's a strawman to say that there were no precedents set that affirmed the freedoms of the user. Namely the Four Freedoms of Information Services, one of which is the freedom of the user to use any information service, whether provide or not, by the ISP or third-party to the ISP, to legally access information.
This guiding principle was used to settle Comcast v BitTorrent in favor of BitTorrent, but it was appealed and overturned during the Obama Administration, under which the internet was reclassed under Title 2.

The important thing are the words information service.

To reclass the internet the internet under Title 2 Regulations, there had to be a motion to reclass the internet under something that could be reasonably be considered a utility.

(.. Cont)
If you aren't illiterate, then buckle up for some good reading.
> apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-344614A1.pdf

My preferred NN is non-nude.

no they can't, that's the whole point. any overlay network can easily ball back to stenography

this. Someone feel free to actually list one concrete thing that NN does or doesn't do, though.

What's your point? ISPs, governments, and civilians can already easily see that you're connecting to tor.

The only reason you'd be using stenography over Facebook is if all other practical channels are blocked. In such case, there would be 10s of millions of people doing the same.

I don't have time to watch yet another (((hacker conference))) video about (((them))).

You're going to be disappointed in how few people won't just submit. China's got a billion people yet very few run VPNs through the Great Firewall.

Censorship doesn't need to be 100%. The country's usually split around 50/50 on any big idea so just having an ability to throttle out-group communication by a couple percent is enough to control you.

Yes I am aware
That there's a technical difference between using TOR and using base64 on the clearweb.

NN (Title II classification) prevents an ISP from discriminating packets. For example this prevents larger ISPs in the US that are vertically integrated content producers from charging either content producers or their customers more money to access outside content. It keeps the content production business decoupled from the data transit business.

This is only required due to the fact that in the US most regions have a monopoly or duopoly in the ISP space, thanks to shitty regulations at the regional levels, and of course the last-mile infrastructure problem.

Hopefully this has been described simply enough. Anyone shrugging off NN either doesn't understand, or lacks the power of extrapolation.

I pay outrageous prices for shitty internet and thanks to ISP lobbying and mergers there are only 2 internet providers in my area.

No it's because all the fucking ISPs merged and lobbied to keep everyone out, as companies tend to do. The "government" isn't some scary monster that comes out once and a while and growls at people, it's a two way street that consumers and businesses try to manipulate for their interest. Unfortunately those who profit from business make up a very small portion of the population but they have a lot of money to bribe the government with. Many restrictive and anti-competition regulations are put in place by the companies in power through the government, the solution isn't less government, the solution is for the consumers to take it back.

because they go to jail for circumvention

and?

then don't pay for internet?

You do realise, that Title 2 regulation is the "normal" regulatory environment where all legislation is globally binding, negative (read, in (((expectation))) of damages), and blanket statement.
Under Title 1, the "lightweight" regulatory environment, you can't as easily impose such regulations without having to sue all local jurisdictions, and having proof positive of damages to the consumers (not just expectation of damages).

Under information services, the only good legal arguement one can make has to start from user expectations. Ie, does this harm or help the capability of services in providing the capacity to acquire/transform/publish/... information? Which is not far from asking: Does this harm the user's capacity to acquire/... information through such services?