MH17 missile 'came from Russia'

Israel launched their Gaza offensive on the same day iirc. Not sure what patents moved around that day, but I'm fairly sure they play into it as well.

A large number of AIDs researchers were on the plane, so nothing of value was lost.

That vehicle cannot lock onto anything on it's own.

>reminder that Ukraine has shotdown other commercial planes in recent history en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

How do they know this
Ukraine/Rebels also have Buks

They haven't released the flight data, the black box, have they? I'll call 911 tier bullshit until they do.

This, we already knew what happened minutes after the event.
The only confusion is due to Russians blatantly making shit up (like the Su25 bullshit).

How did it get onto the pylon of a Ukrainian Su-25 then?

..and the report being bullshit along the lines of
"external objects hit the plane, causing it to crash." And it didn't go any more in depth than that.

OP is so retarded that he believes Russia brought it down. The report stated it was rebels and somehow through a phone call (which was bullshit back then) they wanted a BUK and somehow received it.

Time for a counter argument. Russia 3 days ago found radar data from a nearby location and it showed nothing coming from the east or rebel side, no missiles in air. JIT has not looked into it yet, that's how retarded this investigation is. Ukraine is a part of the investigation and has every right to divert attention from their blame on the incident. There was a whistkeblow missile aircraft loader in Ukraine who loaded the very plane that day that took off and came back with no missile on the plane. Russia also provided satellite evidence just after the incident that Ukraine has and deployed BUK missiles on the ground of the day of MH17.

You mean the long video of the press conference where the BUK manufacturer explains why this could only have been a BUK missile? Yeah, we all saw it.

Continuing, here's rt's analysis of the report.
www.rt.com/news/360925-mh17-crash-jit-report/

Article explaining new Radar data found local to the incident.
www.rt.com/news/360634-mh17-ukraine-radar-data/

Now why would the Russians shoot down a civilian plane in a conflict NATO and globalist kikes try their darndest to escalate?

So, they're still trying to continue their cover-up of their failed assasination of Putin on his plane only 30 minutes behind with the exact same colors and markers.

>itv.com/news/update/2014-06-15/nato-denies-jamming-exercise-led-to-radar-vanishings/

Their main point in that video was that the fragmentation shards which hit the plane were from an earlier version of the missile which should have been decommissioned by now. Only a few countries are known to still have them in use, one of them being Ukraine. If the Jews really did it, they fucked up.

Because their DPR bydlo proxies are incompetent?

Just say sorry and pay the families some money. Is it really that hard? All that fabrication of new theories is getting more and more ridiculous.

Well said.

The only way I know that MH17 wasn't downed by Russia is that NATO didn't invade Donetsk immediately afterward, just like how Obama didn't invade Syria after the SAA supposedly sarin'd its own people.

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Yeah, I know. I'm shooting down the retarded Israeli missile shit.

I still remember when our reddit mods had that shit stickied for ages despite the manufacturer video being available and had been used to tear apart the whole ridiculous thread.

This.
Move along folks, just another anti-Putin thread.

kek, it was a public page run by some russian internet autists who had no connection to him. It literally says «A message from the militia» above that post.

What happened there is long since known. An advisor to Ukrainian president has revealed it shortly after the happening, but no one listened because the truth is harmful to either side of the conflict: it reveals that Russia was balls deep in Ukraine and makes Ukraine responsible for not closing the airspace.

while it is clear that you are a troll of the highest order, Please educate yourself and watch the actual investegation report before you comment. Or better yet, kill yourself.

Meanwhile the Russians are all too happy to discuss their tank foray into Ukraine to deal with them using Scarab complexes into Russia.

your shilling is so low energy even jeb is laughing

This has to be some sort of a bot. He constantly posts this michelhilton site, though earlier he had spic versions of articles. I've never seen him reply in his own thread and he never archives. It's some sort of bot made by a spic who wants to generate traffic for his shitty website.

>> 7675373 mentions that "only the Ukraine had a BUK in the area", as if he was present himself. Russian based news sources like TASS were all to happy however to report earlier that year that the "Rebels" had controll over BUK-missle-launchers. tass.ru/en/world/738262

If it's true or not that the BUK was really stolen from Ukraine or from Russia, I don't know. But still Russian soldiers were also happily posting pictures on their V-kontact pages of themselves going towards the Ukraine, or being in the Ukraine, so I wouldn't put it past them. Bonuslul: we're on vacation in the Ukraine.

Nato trainig excercises: Are you implying that the missle came from one of the ships? a Nato aircraft? Not even the Russians are going that route in their latest iteration of storytelling.

They publish radar data to the JIT, just as the Russians should have. Not make an Ad-Hoc press conference 2 days before showing radar images with nothing on it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. How about you wait for that when it actually gets to a court? Oh wait. that never will happen, right?

The date of the JIT was set a long while back, so I don't see the need why it is making Russia the bad guy again. That also explainswhy Almaz-Antey and MOD from Russia both held press conferences this week. Added bonus luls: Almaz-Antey saying we can only prove it by shooting down an other Boeing. theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/02/russian-missile-firm-offers-recreate-mh17-crash

Were the rebels flying with aircraft in that region in july of 2014? No, so why would the Ukrain need to position a BUK trailer there? Oh that's right, because it's a false flag operation, right? that's being done by the most inept people, right? yet for some reason is executed to such a high standard that it pulls the wool over the eyes of all the other sheeple.

There is a severe logical fallacy in what you're saying. Where is Strelkov? Where are the othe Ukrainians who were fighting for the DPR? Oh all back into Russia? Most logical line of thinking implies it were the Russians just doing their thing and fucking up in their Ukrainian backyard. All lines of vidence that aren't troll/lulzworthy converge on Russian interfrence. Just accept it, pay your fine, and move on.

If you want to know who did it, just try to correct max ceiling of Su-25 on kikepedia and watch how long it takes them to shut it down.

This isn't even new "news", so yeah

Here's a video of Su-25 flying at 8700 m
youtube.com/watch?v=GY_2NoHdNso

Doesn't the US get away with a lot of shit too?

I see no reason why Russians will pay a fine for collateral damage of war. And having this climate of complete insecurity inside Ukraine's airspace mines the legitimacy of the coup there.

Okay, I'm not arguing that it was Russian missile. I believe it was. But there are some important facts to know about this.
1. July 14 — Ukrainian An-26 was shot down. It was flying at 6500 m. Ukrainian MoD claimed that it was shot down by SAM from Russian territory.
Archive (Ukrainian press, use a translator) archive.is/G5gDo
2. July 16 (the day before MH17 was shot down) — Ukrainian national security and defense council claims that an Ukrainian Su-25 was shot down by Russian fighter jet.
Archive (Ukrainian press, use a translator) archive.is/aamY5
So Ukrainian officials made these claims but did not close the airspace for civilian planes and allowed their air control to direct MH17 through the warzone despite clear and imminent danger.

I'd put the blame on the airliner carriers too. This world is highly under informatization nowadays, and the big alliance these airliners are members of don't have a team to, you know, analyze dangers and counsel about flying routes? Anyone knew that was a fucking conflict zone, but they didn't.

Everybody who is still complaining that it was an airplane 1) there hasn't been any on the radar images 2) even the latest Russian itteration is pointing towards that. Everyone ( even the Russians ) have agreed that it was a surface to air missle, not an air to air missle.

onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/phase-docs/1006/debcd724fe7breport-mh17-crash.pdf

I quote:

10.1.1.b: At 13.20.03 hours ( 15.20:03 CET) a warhead detonated outside and above the left hand side of the cockpit of the MH17. It was a 9N314M warhead carried on a 9M38-series of missles as installed on the Buk-surface-to-air missle system.
10.1.1.c Other senarios that could have led to the disintergration of the aeroplane were considered, analysed and excluded based on availible evidence.

This investegation was done with all parties involved, including the Russians who had a dissenting opinion on the type of missle that was used.

So can we please, for fucks sake, stop meming around with the SU-25 bullshit? there are no radar images availible, no missle evidence, and not even the Russians are going allong with it anymore.

the problem with Su-25 is that you can't simply state the fact that it can fly higher than 7000 m, despite evidence. It would make you a pro-Russian conspiracy theorist.

I can see that this is a very contentious issue for a lot of people. I wish the ICAO and the Ukranians had closed off the airspace. But up till that point, no SAMs had gone up to that height.

There is something to be said that it should be closed after the ukranians first started losing airplanes, but the idiots didn't and the ICAO didn't pick up on the severity of the situation on the ground.

I personally feel that the operators of the BUK-missle-launchers and the people who were higher up are the ones to blame.

It's like saying that the Cincinnati zoo isn't responsible for the death of Harambe, but the Gladys Porter Zoo is, for loaning him out.

Sorry for meming, but I hope you understand where I am coming from.

Everybody at this point in time has agreed that it's a surface to air missle that hit the plane. Surface to air missle. That excludes a SU-25.

I am not talking about the amazing capabilities that this plane might have or might not have. I am talking about that this is absolutely irrelevant at this point in time to talk about it, unless there is new evidence to talk about implicating that this was done by a SU-25.

Spoiler alert; right now there isn't.

Yeah the USA get's away with a lot of shit too, I agree. That doesn't mean that "whataboutthem-ism" is a valid argument. It's a very petty and childish responce.

Russians love to point to the USA- Iran plane shoot down back in 1988. I too love that one because they eventually paid their bills:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655#Aftermath

Do I think the USA should have appologise? yes. Do I think they could have done this earlier instead of waiting 8 years? yes.

But there are key diffrences: USA involvement was from the start clear and owned by the USA.

Russia has a history of jerking around about their involvement untill they eventually have to come to terms with that they are responsible, or even that there was a problem to begin with. ( mh17, Crimea invasion, chernobyl to name a few incidents where it wasn't owned up that Russia had some sort of involvement. )

That's even more hilarious, the JIT report actually says that the BUK TELAR (the missile+ radar launcher) came from Russia then went back on the westward roads towards the border (either the R66 or the M4).

Which on July 13 were cut by the Ukrainian troops… and perfectly unusable by the rebels/Russia.

The only road viable route on July 17/18 would have been to head north to Uspenka via either Ivanovka or Antratsit, and then East to Krasnodon, then South to Sverdlosk, get once again in range of the ukrainians troops and pass into Russia at Chervonopartyzan'sk, which road was a frontline at the time…

The safest route for it (which is not even mentioned in the report, all it does is mention impossible roads) would have brought it three time into areas were the ukrainians had some degree of fire control.

You know instead of just stash it somewhere in Donestk or just burn it and be done with it…

No, no they punched frontlines with it to bring it back to Russia…

I know where you are coming from. But the mongol tatars will never accept, because they don't want to be bent over, give recognition to demands for what is an exceptional region for Russians.

It might be twisted. Russia's control of that region airspace and what's beneath it goes over the corpses of those civilians killed in the plane shootdown. And can we blame the Russians? US has been doing things worse, and it's not whataboutism. You can't take out of context what's happening with such conflicts, which is it that burgers and lackeys want to have hegemony over everyone else.

Thanks for correcting the record.

I agree with you that a recognition from Russia in what they consider their territory is nigh impossible.

On the question if we can blame the Russians, My personal gut instinct says yes, since it seems state-equipment ( the buk missle launcher ) was used. The question isn't if they were responsible, the question is how can you prove it.

Gregor and Ivanovich might not have been following orders, or have been completely drunk off their asses. We don't know, and it is fucking hard to prove it in a court of law, without interviewing of the actual personel who operated the BUK / Missle launcher itself.

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I agree that the USA isn't a nice player in a lot of these conflicts. Backstabbing behind the scenes deals and tribulations are common and I see all goverments as trying to push their own agenda. Some are just more competent than others ( looking at how shitty a job you are doing, Rutte ).

Personally I still think "but if they are doing it, therefor we should/can be doing it" is a weak ass argument though, no disrespect.

Sure. I agree, but consider that the guys operating the launcher thought they or their men would get destroyed by an income bombing run.

And I'm not one to fall prey to stupid shit like "they doing, therefore it's all right", I'm above that. But this is such a complex case, it's hard… mainly when you have another rival looking to have absolute primacy over you. Russia and China will not accept it. Both powers are fighting for their survival now, it's the US that's pushing them in a corner.

The only thing that can stop this is if US tones it down and stop with its retarded drive to militarily overwhelm everyone. muh superior weapons and all that crap

I appreciate the comments you've made in the thread, thank you. For me, I don't consider it a complex case, the smoke screen that is thrown up by Russia is indeed a form of self defence.

A final thing I want to mention is that there are a lot of parties involved that are absolutely incompetent. The Dutch goverment has no spine and can't handle this, imho this has been severly self evident. The Ukrainians can't handle Russian invasion incursions, and Russia imho was military involved in the conflict. Combine that with the ICAO not being able to call the shots on closing the airspace and you get this fucking mess.

Personally while I understand your views of military expansionism, I think it's otherwise a minor factor in the actual SAM-incident, and I would like to keep this opnion at that, if you don't mind.

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Our older threads covered this well when it was happening.
Did anyone ever find out what happened to the Ukraine air control operator who said that the Ukraine was responsible?