Palestine

the book orientalism pioneered post-colonialism and is from the perspective of a western arab palestinian

Because the Israeli narrative on Palestine is incredibly obvious bullshit and anyone with two neurons knows this. The U.S media on the other hand is blatantly pro-Israel.

The disconnection between reality and the U.S media, is one of the first steps to "breaking the conditioning" "putting on the "they live" sunglasses." People start to question the capitalist media and start to gravitate towards leftism.

But they can also gravitate toward other things, not always leftism.

what occupations?

Most Palestinians in the diaspora are fairly left-wing and progressive. Most Palestinians in Palestine are actually quite right-wing and hate the fact that their liberation struggle is tied in with socialism, feminism, queer BS.

then why is the PFLP second largest party in the PLO?

Hamas has more support than the PLO. PFLP hasn't done shit in 30 years.

except everything they did you armchair revolutionary loudmouth can't even be arsed to look up
shame on the PFLP not being more present in your pathetic life

Give me a reason to believe so.

Pretty sure the left loves the Kurds just as much.

Pretty wrong then. Especially if 'left' includes liberals.

It doesn't.

Yeah, not 'objectively' but OP might have used it that way.

No, there are a ton of anarchists who fetishize the Kurds, namely because Ocalan is a Bookchinite or some shit.

what is the point of this post? Are you saying leftist should stop caring for Israel based on your dubious claim that Palestinians are right-wing? Have you ever been to Gaza or West Bank (without a gun or a uniform)?
I ask because you talk like you have insight into Palestinian culture.

I've been on both sides of the green line and have spoken to a few Palestinians in both Israel and the West Bank. For the record, I was given an unofficial "tour" by a Palestinian friend of mine and his cousin.

My buddy is very leftist, not exactly an anarchist or ML but garden-variety social democrat. Granted, he grew up in Boston.

His uncle and aunt, however, are pretty socially conservative, as were the other Palestinians in their city. They don't care much for progressivism and would prefer to maintain the traditional Arab way of life (i.e. big families, submissive women, men being the ones who go out and make money for the family, religion, community entirely dependent on one another, small businesses, and so on). Really, Marxism is an alien concept to them.

what is the point of telling us, this? What is your agenda?

That Palestinian culture has its own contradictions, that being oppressed doesn't entail you desire socialism.

people are a product of the dominant hegemony they live in, even moreso today, since people are more "plugged-in" to the media.

Are you an anti-Zionist?

Of course. I just don't hold to the economistic illusions that being disenfranchised automatically makes you lean towards communism. Historically speaking, oppressed nations have been just as likely to side with reactionary nationalisms or religious fundamentalism as they have revolutionary socialism.

I honestly don't see a scenario where Palestine would go socialist. At this point, they're lucky if they get a Mandela who will sell them out once a one democratic state is established.

wat.

Chiapas, Oaxaca

I asure you, if Israel wasn't fucking them, noone would give a fuck.

Example?

Kurds are given many fucks.
Mexicans are given, only if Zapatistas.
East Ukraina is given a lot of fucks.

Chechnyans, Kosovar Albanians .. … I thought they were nationalist…

Kashmiris, Timorese… wtf are they even?

Oh and, +1 , what "occupation"? The will to create your own nation doesn't mean "occupation". Was the ottoman empire "occupying"?

I agree as the son of a Palestinian immigrant. Palestinians are not extremely socially conservative, they're also mildly racist and are big on capitalism and free market principals. It's the same with most Arabs and Muslims. For example the wealthy are usually considered inherently moral and good. This reminds of when some gay activists went to a local Muslim organization after that night club massacre and they were shocked that the organization had no relationship with any LGBTQ groups and didn't want to have any kind of relationship with those kinds of groups because they didn't approve of their lifestyle. This silly idea that since a group is oppressed and alienated that they're someone how automatically left leaning or receptive to our ideas is absolutely moronic and one of the biggest problems of the modern left. It's also pretty racist to lump everyone of a given ethnicity is some kind of faceless mass with the same goals and ambitions. It's really no different from regular garden variety bigotry and I don't appreciate any of it. It's just dehumanizing and patronizing.

Hmm…

That's my point: regardless as to what many on the Left like to claim, they still hold to these old, tireless truisms like economism, i.e. the more oppressed you are, the more of a revolutionary communist you'll become. This has proven false again and again.

I too have seen a lot of Arabs and Muslims embracing the free market crap. I'm from Boston originally, so I grew up around Muslims (mostly Pakistanis but also some Palestinians, Egyptians, etc.) and they were all GOP supporters up until 9/11.

do a lot of palestinians believe in ZOG Occupied Government conspiracies?

because i know a few who do.

you guys are responding to a strawman of unknown origins.
No one has claimed that Palestinians lean to the left? Regardless of that, Israel should not exists

This seems like very unsubtle shilling.
yeah, so what?
neither is most of humanity
What kind of music do you listen to

hmmmm'

the purpose of a leftist activist is not to wait until the world is leftist, then take action. Leftist activist are supposed to take action to make the world leftist. i think that is pretty much universal in all sects of leftism.

The question of whether a certain national group is leftist or not. Is irrelevant in leftist discussions. If anything it might imply racist connotations, such as the some national groups are genetically incapable of leftism.

Nice anecdotes

It's racist to generalize yet you just generalized, good job!

The problem is that the Palestinian people are being oppressed by a state(Israel). They are having their civil liberties taken away by the ever encroaching Israeli settlers. Therefore, this gives us more then enough de-jure for the left to be concerned with Palestine. Don't make the mistake of taking anti idpol as disregarding all the struggles of the minorities and oppressed. It's just that we must frame our issues in an economic sense rather than a one based on identity.

You're missing the point entirely. No one said the Palestinians don't matter because they're mostly right-wing. We're saying that the hope for a socialist revolution in Palestine (whether in the West Bank and Gaza or the entire historical territory) is close to zilch, so it's foolish for leftists to assume "the Palestinians" are the people to fetishize and turn to if we're looking for inspiration for proletarian internationalism.

Besides, what the fuck do falafel, tabbouleh, keffiyehs, old Arabic poetry, and the image of the Dome of the Rock have to do with the DoP?

No shit, but in the case of Palestine we're also competing with bourgeois nationalists and religious nuts. What does the Left have to gain by siding with either Fatah or Hamas?

Let me remind you that New Democracy, while allowing for the national bourgeoisie and petit-bougeoisie to have some power, was entirely run by the Communist Party.

How do we just "get rid" of Israel? In the case of South Africa, whites were never more than 20% of the population, so ending their rule made perfect sense. In Palestine, half the people between the river and the sea are Jews, and their numbers keep increasing due to high birthrates among the Orthodox AND high amounts of immigration from American and French Jews. How do you just implement a Mugabe-style land reform?

Without socialism, a one-state of Palestine is democratic and rainbow in name only.

You'd still have to deal with things like massive inequality in wealth, education, land ownership, etc., which the current Palestinian leaders cannot (or will not) solve.

A OSS means Jews would still be sitting on top of most of the land.

Netanyahu was begging French Jews to move to Israel. And they told him to fuck off. If anything there are high rates of emigration to the U.S from Israel.

What is this bullshit strawman of "fetishizing" Palestinians? Leftist support Palestinian causes. Problem? Who are you, the thought police?

Support =/= fetishization

It's one thing to support the Palestinians. It's a whole other thing to fucking fetishize their culture.

Please.

Oh I don't know, perhaps you've never been to an SJP meeting but I have and I've seen plenty of instances where white kids wear keffiyehs every day, inject Arabic words into their daily lexicon ("ameen", "ishallah", etc.), spend big bucks to buy "authentic" olive oil imported from the West Bank, go out of their way to eat at cafés run by Palestinian-American families, and so on.

I've also known a few white dudes who married Palestinian women FROM SJP.

If this were tumblr, you'd call their behavior a fetish, don't lie.

...

take it to >>>Holla Forums or >>>/a/

Meme arrow wasn't supposed to be there.

There is no reason to fetishize their culture, but if people start doing it then I see no harm in it.

Doubt.jpg

Yeah, you've obviously never been to an SJP meeting.

It's fucked up, because it ultimately relies on an idealized version of who a "Palestinian" is, which only reproduces certain tropes Westerners have about the East (i.e. that Eastern cultures are inherently more moral or enlightened than the West, or that internal contradictions or class struggle don't exist within Eastern societies). Either way, it's not something a theoretically-strong communist would do.

Lifestylism.

Don't mistake the left for some bourgie anarkids thinking they revolt.

Palestinians really are the special snowflakes as far as national liberation struggles are concerned. The Kashmiris have been under military occupation for just as long as the Palestinians have and yet we don't really see many people on the far-left thinking imitating Kashmiri culture is something edgy and revolutionary.

Keffiyas are useful. Mujadarah is tasty and easy to make. Dabke is fun and danceable. It's really more Levantine culture that people enjoy.

Sure, but I hope no one is claiming dabke is a socialist dance.

Kashmiri girls never hijacked planes in Che-Guevara t-shirts, though.

That's exactly what I'm saying: assuming every Palestinian girl is a Leila Khaled clone is absurd.

Very true, but in the end, people are going to have their fun. Westerners to have their little vicarious revolutions. That's why they enjoy riot porn, and that's why they decry peace talks. It's kinda stupid, but hey, what are ya gonna do, right?

I said most not all. I'm Palestinian and black and I'm a communist. My dad is also left leaning but that's because he spent a year with a radical bisexual Norwegian woman going around Western Europe before he came here not because of the years of oppression he faced under Israeli rule. I'm not saying they're all the same I'm just pointing out a tendency within the Muslim community. They aren't anymore inherently more left leaning then any other demographic because they are oppressed. All this idealizing of Muslim going on is pathetic. I'm saying that you're fighting an uphill battle trying to covert them to leftism and this left tendency you think they have isn't really there. Not that you shouldn't try or that what's going on in Palestine isn't apartheid because it obviously is.

Yea the Zionist conspiracy is very popular with Muslims , Palestinians in particular. My dad is more left leaning the most and even he believes that crap. You know that Jews control the American empire and that they did 9/11.

Yeah a ton my Dad's friends use to vote Republican. They still shoot guns, cheat on their taxes, lie about income to get health benefits and treat their employees and work associates like shit . If 9/11 hadn't happened then they'd still be voting Republican to this day. The average Arabic Muslim has more in common with a typical evangelical then the average liberal that's sticking to them like glue. It's just sad and shows a fundamental problem with modern mainstream leftism.

I worked with the BDS movement for five years. It was nothing but moral fanaticism and sadomasochism. Would not recommend.

Sad thing is, I know far too many people that think like this.

Muslims and Arabs have historically done well in the USA due to their abilities as businesspeople. I highly doubt they'd be the first to embrace socialism.

Again, you are arguing with a strawman.

So what's the solution then? Should the left exclude Muslims entirely?

No, It should exclude Islam.

Leave your religious zeal at the doors of revolution or stand the fuck aside.

Yes, they should be excluded. Along with other races incapable of advancing to socialism

Not my response by the way. I'm not saying to not try and try to recruit them or that your be wasting your time or anything. I'm saying this idea that Muslims and other oppressed groups have more potential for left wing thought or there's a leftist tendency among these populations is nonsense and in fact the opposite is true. There is a serious right wing element in the Muslim community you'll have to combat if you want to get them on our side. The fact the modern left refuses to acknowledge this is a serious problem.

I've literally never encountered this.

My entire newsfeed today is nothing but chants of "Eid Mubarak", and the majority of them are coming from non-Muslims.

I told you already, leftism is masochism.

regards, pol

maybe you should learn more about the palestinian struggle before comparing it to "mexicans, kurds, albanians, chechnyans, ect"

lmao what. weird mix of spook and delusion in this post

it's not shilling, its just delusional posts by a jewish guy who thinks he can dehumanize and stereotype palestinians. all the while truly the palestinian cause isn't leftist when you would have to be absolutely batshit insane to think being anti-imperialism and anti-apartheid isn't leftist.

you can't be a socialist/marxist/leftist without being staunchly anti-israel, or else you like being a hypocrite

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine

Did anyone say they were pro- Israel in this thread? I know I didn't as the son of a Palestinian immigrant obviously I don't support the apartheid going on there. As far as I can tell that's not even the subject of anyones posts. Everyone was pointing out the right wing tendencies within the Muslim community and criticizing the delusional perspective that minorities are somehow more receptive to left wing ideas because they face oppression when that isn't the case a lot of the time.

We don't.

Such as? The Palestinians are not a "special" people. They are fighting against a military occupation in the same manner as the Chechens or Kurds. Literally no different.

Chechnya and Kurdistan aren't under military occupation, dumbass

Chechnya most certainly is.

Someone FINALLY said it.

You know the poster in question is Jewish?

Except you have guerilla fighting against the Turkish army and police in North Kurdistan, get your facts right.

Chechnya is occupying itself under Kadyrov.
I thought you were talking about Iraqi Kurdistan

Either way, the Palestinians are not a special people, and pretending they are merely because there were socialist/communist groups in the resistance decades ago holds no weight.

Also, I've never met a white leftie with a Palestine fetish who wasn't a giant hipster racist.

You know most Palestinian communists are Christians, right?

Care to explain the relevance of that?

I think lefties have a tendency to support the underdog in general. There are probably more muslims on the left, but I've never noticed a hard-on for their culture tbh.

You absolutely do see it with the Kurds. But it's an underdog thing in general. It's generally about current affairs. If Albania became the underdog in central foreign affairs, I guarantee you'd see a rise in people talking about Albanian culture in general.

I have a hard-on for Palestine because I used to live in Palestine.

It’s also really edgy where I went to university and good for triggering the future AIPAC shills in my class.

Agreed. The Left just fetishises the oppressed and doesn't really look at what's going on half the time.

youtube.com/watch?v=4Vzk5QBg9a8

Not the people front the true liberators of Rom…
I mean Israeli oppression
Popular front, fuck off, not in my leftypol

I don't know mate, sounds like you're completely making this up.

No. Go to any SJP meeting at any major university and you'll see white kids imitating Palestinian food, dress, dances and so on.

The most cringe-worthy is hearing white atheist kids use distinctly Islamic jargon in their everyday conversation.

That’s mostly just the usual identity politics or solidarity LARPing that goes on in any student activist circle tbh. There’s also a large civil society network of internationals that spend some time in Israel or the occupied territory and come back with some of the culture and language rubbed off on them.

Also the keffiyeh is a e s t h e t i c af.

If this triggers you, you should probably kys maybe.

"Students for justice in Palestine"

Well, there tends to be a thing about white lefty dudes to seek out Pali girlfriends.

Speaking personally, here Kurds and Novorossyans are much more novel.

Since Hamas is in power, most of the local left has stopped giving but token support to the Palestinian liberation struggle, as it is seen as too islamistic and reactionary.

The only ones who still care are idpolers and ultra-tankies that still can't accept the USSR isn't there anymore and will still go on with the anti-imperialist geopolitical bullshit. I almost respect the idpoler more, at this point, since they have the good taste of not idolizing cunts like Putin or Assad.

Tumblr BTFO
Tumblr BTFO
Tumblr BTFO

...

It's because people aren't able to fathom that the Jews (Zionist) and Muslims (Islamist) found in that part of the world are very similar and simply differ on certain minor, yet to them fundamentally important aspects. People see Zionism oppressing a group of people and think that they must be doing it because they differ with them 180. To use a sports analogy, it'd be like saying Manchester United and Manchester City are complete the opposite of each other.

Not but I'd like to add, what's arguably worse than right-wing Muslims giving a proverbial finger to leftists are leftists who try to appropriate Palestinian (or Islamic) psychology.

I used to be part of the BDS Movement from 2009 up until 2013, and the biggest problem I saw was exactly that: secular westerners thinking they needed to take on a "Palestinian epistemology" in order to clean their minds of "colonial thinking" (it sounds absurd, I know). Basically, in their view, the Palestinians were always right, as the Palestinian point-of-view allegedly sees things that are unknown to the average westerner, so whenever Palestinian intellectuals (Barghouthi, etc.) told western activists what to do, they did it without really thinking too deeply about it. This is where the problems came in. The objective became less about cutting US military aid to Israel (which is what the movement SHOULD have been about, given that this is a feasible and effective goal) and much more about "denormalizing Zionism" in the mind. So, if one used a Motorola phone, they had to be shamed. If one listened to music by an Israeli artist, they had to be shamed. If one bought Sbux coffee, they had to be shamed. And so on. There were people who wanted to protest Israeli performance artists or academics, for example. The whole thing became a clusterfuck very early on.

But here's the thing: for a religious Muslim Palestinian, this kind of straight-out-of-the-Young-Hegelians idealism makes sense. Islam is big on metaphysics and moral absolutism, and people raised in the faith (or a culture heavily influenced by the faith) are no different. For a modern, secular westerner who was raised in a society where God is dead and absolute metaphysical truths are rejected, reverting to a traditional Islamic paradigm is very difficult, even worse when that westerner is a Marxist/historical materialist.

the left does fetishize Mexicans. See: Zapatistas.

Nah, I don't think that Ross draws comics.

Yes it's a problem the mainstream left has in general like I've been saying they seem to think that just because some group is oppressed that they must hold values and tendencies that are the complete opposite of their oppressors. In reality, all this crap does is reinforce racist attitudes and ignores problems with right wing tendencies within these groups.This stuff with Muslims is particularly silly. The average Muslim embraces the majority of the same values that the average Evangelical or Muslim hating Zionist does. It's total delusional and I'm sick of it. Like this guy said This crap can actually lead to counter revolutionary activities that don't help and often hurt the causes these Champagne socialist and liberals claim to support.

The fuck are you talking about? The only times I've ever seen anyone even sport a Palestian flag is A) at a protest or B) because they come from Palestian. Name one Palestian dish or rapper.

Tabbouleh

Lowkey

Idealism, which is what a lot of the BDSers I knew were drowning in, can lead to pretty fucked up consequences. Again, I was told (as were others) that the primary purpose of BDS was to "decolonize the mind" by going after the way Zionism is "normalized" in American culture (hence why a huge amount of our focus was on going after Israeli artists or musicians rather than, say, Raytheon).

Look at this article for an example of the mentality we were told to hold:
mondoweiss.net/2010/10/can-you-support-the-palestinians-when-you-live-on-their-stolen-land/

I'm glad I got the fuck out of that cult. I even think calling BDS a "cult" the way Finkelstein does is wayyy too soft. There are serious narcissistic abusers in that movement who use it as an excuse to bully others and feel morally superior.

Hummus and DJ Khaled

youtube.com/watch?v=aXe_15hopaA

I think it may have to do with a warped understanding of the base-superstructure dialectic. Leftists may see Palestinian culture as never having been corrupted or constructed by a colonial base, so they assume their culture must embody some kind of egalitarianism or socialistic values.

You could have said the same about South Africa. Zulu culture was purer than Afrikaner culture for that very reason. One is a culture created by a colonial base while the other is a culture created by a colonized base.

See:

Even if we assume this kind of essentialism to be true, I honestly have no idea how tabbouleh, falafel, dabkeh, and Ramadan fasting are socialist.

Not a hard on, just mutual respect

Is BDS still really relevant? I can remember my dad not drinking coffee from Starbucks when I was younger but I don't know anyone that bothers wkth that crap anymore.

The Palestinian government is shit and Israeli government is shit. All of the middle east governments are pure shit.

Im a little worried that humanity will die in nuclear fire but please continue your petty nationalism or "anti imperialism".

They're not as prevalent as they were five years ago when I was still in the Movement, but you still see them doing things like organizing boycotts of specific retailers that stock Israeli products.

I agree.

Yeah there was one of them on here a few months ago. You couldn't post Chomsky without him going into autistic fit because Chomsky said all the boycotting crap was useless.

Will Holla Forums support native Europeans in their inevitable struggle against Muslim and African colonizers once they become a minority in their own homelands?

No.

yes.

I really hate Chomsky TBH but there is some truth to what he says about BDS. It would be much more effective for activists to target American companies profiting off the occupation instead of playing ideological brain-games about "clearing Zionism from the mind" or whatever.

Chomsky says a lot of stupid stuff but he's pretty on point when it comes to those BDS idiots. It's not even possible to function I'm modern day society without giving a few Zionists companies money. Boycotting is rarely am effective strategy especially not when you're dealing with a major global problem like this.

BDS pushes a moral fanaticism (at least, that was the impression they gave me when I joined up) which serves no purpose other than to feed into the Palestinian national bourgeoisie's narcissistic supply.

antisemitism.

This only country allow bigots to be antisemitic as much as they want

jfc I almost fell for this bait.

Maybe

...

Ex-BDS here again.

Barghouthi is 100% pure grade-A Palestinian national porky.

Assuming a one-state solution in Palestine becomes a reality, the Barporkies will most likely be the heads of state. Nothing but pure Palestinian neoliberals they are.

I have to agree with Chomsky on this. BDS isn't going anywhere unless they can actually state their intents.

he has a point

To be fair, it would be impossible to boycott American institutions, given how powerful the US is as an imperialist power. Boycotting Harvard or MIT for supporting wars in Central America isn't much of an option for academics, and neither is, say, boycotting a company like Lockheed or GE.

Plus, spitting in the face of a colonized people when they've specifically asked you to boycott their oppressors makes you look like a dick.

Yeah he's pretty much spot on. BDS is an i ineffective movement of liberals that claim to speak for an entire group of people.

Yep a lot of people seem to think anti-imperialism some how automatically leads to some kind of left wing government when it can easily lead to right wing ethnic fascism. Like I said it's a serious problem with the modern left.

Frantz Fanon (someone who is often quoted by Third Worldists and socdems alike but never actually read) made this point over 50 years ago in relation to the anti-colonial struggles in Africa: there are extreme limits to ethnic or religious nationalism, even if it is "anti-imperialist", because it simply cannot resolve contradictions that exist internally within a nation. Or even externally, given as to how easily most of Africa was neo-colonized soon after those places gained (temporary) independence.

A OSS in Palestine would be essentially the same way. Palestinian porkies would take control of the government and would immediately allow for Israeli companies to keep fucking the land. Not to mention there is a serious issue of land ownership. A OSS keeps the settlements and the Israeli control of the majority of lands in historical Palestine, leaving the Palestinians with shitty land and shitty conditions. It's a lose-lose scenario.

I also wanted to add that BDS gets tricky once you realize that Israeli society is not a monolith. Most Israeli Jews are not from Eastern Europe, but the Middle East (so, from Iraq, Yemen, Morocco, etc.), and these Arab Jews have historically faced discrimination by their European cousins. So, let's say you want to boycott a bakery in Crown Heights that's owned by an Israeli family out of BDS, but the Israeli family in question is Yemenite - do you still do it?

It's really not a clear-cut thing.

palestinians doesn't want to boycott israel

Source?

Many Palestinians living in the US do want activists to boycott Israel. Is it just a diaspora thing?

Chomsky

also

theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/22/mahmoud-abbas-rejection-israel-boycott

I would question Chomsky's claim in that regard, since I have never met a Palestinian who was anti-BDS. Assuming he's correct, it's worth asking why that would be the case that most Palestinians themselves have no issue with supporting Israeli companies.

Half Palestinian here again. Boycotting was big when I was a kid like 15 years ago but no one really gives a shit anymore. It's almost like veganism. People just roll their eyes when you bring it up seeing how Israel is a major economic player and it's basically impossible to boycott them. In fact, most Palestinian men I know spend a lot of their free time at Star Bucks.

You're right personal I think we'd be looking at a new South Africa or Zimbabwe if Palestinians gained sovereignty with the current leaders they have now. There's no effort by the left to push actual leftism because again of the mistaken belief that native oppressed people are somehow already left leaning and more predisposed to socialism.

Liberate gays and feminists by sending them right into gaza

I see videos comparing Jewish settlements in the West Bank with Palestinian cities showing the wealth disparity. It's obviously horrible, but you have to ask how this kind of inequality would be solved, especially when the PA isn't exactly going to push for Arab socialism.

I can't envision a OSS being anything close to the "rainbow nation" its proponents claim it would be. Again, the largest growing demographic in Israel are the ultra-orthodox, who usually live by themselves totally outside the mainstream world. They would not want to mix with Palestinians, or even secular Jews. That's also another reason why the settlements are so exclusionary: they're made up entirely of these ultra-religious communities who want nothing to do with those outside their religion. I couldn't see Palestinian families moving to Kiryat Arba, for example.

Most die-hard Palestinian nationalists see feminism as a cancer on their society, simply because it makes their birthrates go down as Palestinian women don't want to get married at 17 and pump out six kids the way their great-grandmothers did.

Abbas isn't representative of the Palestinian people, who tend to favor boycotts overwhelmingly.

What?

He is the head of Fatah the most important palestinian party and more palestinians prefer it than Hamas

so yeah he is representative of palestinian

because they depend of those companies

Look at SodaStream for example. BDS make them leave the Westbank, and what happened? Thousand of palestinian lost their jobs.

Zionist bullshit.

I'm not saying it didn't do anything wrong.

What I'm saying is why palestinians don't want them out.

take out your tinfoil

Most Palestinians in the diaspora do not like Abbas. They feel he is too much of a sellout as is the rest of the PA.

If Palestinians don't support BDS themselves, why are blogs like Electronic Intifada so supportive of it? EI is run by Palestinians.

when I say palestinian I mean palestinian leaving in Palestine. They are th workers suffering so they need to hold to companies that gives them a living.

Also, Palestine depends heavily on Israeli economy.

EI and diapora palestinian and a bunch of fanatics that only want another intifada to watch it on tv

Living*

Then wouldn't the right solution be to unionize them instead of backing away from BDS?

Only due to the occupation. With international support they could create means of self-sufficiency.

Also, have you tried talking to people like Ali Abuminah about this?

BDS is to boycott them. If you boycott them you it would matter to unionize them.

nah they are too close regionally

About what and what for?
They guy is pretty much a fanatic

the guy is wrong is practically everything he says

Tell us why you think that's the case. His views really aren't that much more fanatical than your average BDS participant.

Unionization plus boycotts will do the trick. It would be something if Palestinian workers could demand as much from Sodastream and other Zionist companies as possible, or even potentially take them over.

Boycotting Israel is the only way to get through to them. Israeli society is not going to change from the inside.

yeah and they are fanatics too

It would be absurd to unionize those companies ans then to continue boycott them.

they already do.

>>In 2014, An article published on Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, the Palestinian Authority's official daily, praised Israeli treatment of Palestinian workers. With having added benefits such as transportation, medical and pensions, Palestinians are quick to leave their Palestinian employees and work for Israelis, whenever they have the opportunity to do so. Safety rules are enforced strictly by Israeli Workers' Union and physical examinations are done by doctors. While the PA has passed labour laws but do not enforce rules such as minimum wage, yearly vacation, sick leave or extra payment for additional work hours.[35][36][37]

BS has little to no impact to Isral economy. It only huts palestinians more

also

But they don't care about facts. They are idealistic fanatics

If BDS has made such little impact on Israel, why are Israeli officials scared to death of it? Why are there bills being passed to silence and ban BDS?

Something here doesn't add up.

They aren't. a few politicians just want to prevent its escalation

the bill being passed in other countries arre not against BDS. Are just agaisnt boycott from public institutions. You are still free to boycott if you want.

BDS has failedas of now. But that doesn't mean it cannot escalate.

So what do you think the Palestinians should do? Accept occupation? Petition to the International Court?

It's LARPing.

White mans burden liberal progressives have always been fascinated by noble savages.

Almost as good as when the feminists and trannies fight each other.

Okay, one of my friends is Yemenite and I have no idea why she or anyone in her family would want to go back to living under Muslim hegemony.

Wrong.

bdsmovement.net/2016/eleven-signs-bds-14310