How can Gentoo ever recover?

choose one and only one

if you're going down that road there's probably about 1000 reasons not to use some sketchy distro that claims to magically "fix dependency hell"

what the fuck does that even mean? How will it compile my special snowflake code that only works if you pass one of -DLINSHIT or -DWINBLOWS?

This distro doesn't claim that, and it's been around since the very early 2000s, it's not sketchy at all, just obscure

9mm between the eyeballs

man -Pcat bash | grep -C1 slowBUGS It's too big and too slow.

Bash is what you get when you get a Lisp culture to write an Algol-inspired shell in C. It's a giant clusterfuck, even moreso than the original Bourne shell, which is also a clusterfuck.
I use it a lot. I wish I didn't.

These geniuses put rtorrent in the ftp category, good luck finding it.

I mean, look at this shit. This is not okay.

Are you retarded? This is only one implementation. Just use dash or busybox ash.

It's not even bash, it's the Bourne shell, the thing bash is based on
Well, seems like you're retarded as well

That's not just any implementation. That's the original implementation. The designer of the Bourne shell thought that doing crap like that was okay. And it shows.
The bourne shell and its descendants are the only popular languages with algol syntax left. The default behavior for expanding variables (i.e. when they're unquoted) is almost always the wrong thing to do and leads to bugs, unless you want to do terrible macro-like things that are also basically impossible to keep bug-free. Comparisons are implemented as an external command, which is kind of a neat hack, but then they're dressed up with square brackets so most people don't even realize that /usr/bin/[ is a thing and think they're working with actual syntax.

Bash had to be a better language that was backward-compatible with all that. So it became even more of a clusterfuck, with the distinction between [ and [[, an unintuitive array system, multiple syntaxes for defining functions, undocumented alternative brace syntax for looping, and who knows what else.

Bash is basically better than pure sh, but it's an enormous clusterfuck.

Do you even read yourself? You showed a sh implementation, so of course I'd give other sh ones.
Bash is just fucked, you might want to use zsh or ksh.

Stopped reading, no libre no go.

Explain pls.

[ is an ordinary command. It may be implemented as part of the shell itself, and it usually is nowadays, but it's also allowed to be an external command at /usr/bin/[ with no special handling by the shell.
So if the value of $v is "a b" then [ $v = a ] gives a syntax error because there's two elements left of the equals sign. Same problem if it's empty. Whether your syntax is correct depends on the state of your program. That's awful. Using [ safely is not hard but it's not intuitive so a lot of people don't do it safely.
Bash solves that by introducing [[, an alternative way of doing the same things as [ plus a few more. It's not a normal command, so [[ $v = a ]] does what you'd expect - although [[ comes with its own quirks.
But that means bash has two constructs that look almost the same, are used for the same things, and are often interchangeable, but work completely differently in ways that actually matter for the programmer. It's a mess.
Unix in general is a maze of bad compatibility-related decisions. There's the whole /usr debacle, described in , and there's the gets function in the C standard library, which is so broken that it introduces a major vulnerability into your program no matter how you use it, and took until C11 to get removed, and there's echo's -n option, which cannot be used portably, and so on.
All of those problems can be dealt with easily, but you have to remember a thousand pitfalls to use Unix responsibly. You can't just assume that any part of your system is sane, no matter how widely used. It's unnecessarily easy to shoot yourself in the foot.

Say what you will, it still runs faster and better than Portage

all packages are free as in freedom by default

Never forget debian's terrible patches.

Just follow the latest POSIX standard. The one that advise you just use sh and getline/getdelim instead of gets.

Or Ubuntu's
shivers

I don't use Plebeian especially now that they took the systemdick, Gentoo does a pretty conservative job at patching.

I acknowledged that it's perfectly possible to use Unix safely, as long as you're careful and/or experienced. But a lot of Unix features are unnecessarily awful. I know I can just avoid all use of gets() with fgets() and friends, but completely having to avoid a standard library function under all circumstances is a flaw in the standard library.
And while I'm aware of how to work around pitfalls, I sometimes have to rely on work by people who aren't. I've used a shell script installer of a commercial product (!) that didn't allow spaces in filenames, seemingly just so they didn't have to quote their variables.

jej

Quote your variables.

I know. Point is,

So the fault lies on:
-sh for giving us the quoting hell
-bash for allowing retards to be retarded

Portage isn't that slow if you don't put retarded values for backtracking.
What's really annoying in Portage (beside shit speed) is that you need four thousands side tools like eix, equery, gentoolkit for it to be usable. And that's really bad.

Essentially. And on the retards, of course, but getting retards is inevitable while consistently pointing them down the wrong path isn't.

ok fam
b-but that's the UNIX philosophy, user! 1000 small programs that do one thing
and do it terribly and do it well!

forgot pic

This still doesn't fix empty/nonexistant variables. This is used as a method to work around that (at least startxfce4 uses it):
if [ x"$var" = x"value" ]; then

Try installing app-emulation/xen-tools at some point, and you'll see conservative.

People use portage for USE flag, slots and Gentoo for the huge repos, numerous overlays and overall freedom (libc, µarch).
Compared to what? Any source based package manager that must manage reverse dependencies is going to be slow (see Paludis).
No. Portage is reputed slow, but also very stable.

I took your bait. Happy, nigger?

It does, though. argv is allowed to contain the empty string. [ "$var" = "value" ] works for me, even if var is nonexistent.

10/10 argument fam
It is slow.
That is also true.

p-please do it again user-san

The point is that Gentoo is one of the only source based distros having all of these.
Show me a source based distro that can work on 8 (even 9 with S390) uarchs, at least two init systems (openrc and systemd) and 2/3 libcs.

Now, honestly, I really like alternative package managers (pkgsrc is super nice) but it's hard having all the advantages of Gentoo in one distro. Sourcemage does seem nice, but its repos really are too small (and sometimes too old; e.g. no Emacs 25) and the doc is lacking.

You chose the latter.

The vanilla kernel has binary blobs for proprietary firmware, fuck off with your bullshit.

So you're saying it can't even deal with this? How will it deal with the fact that every fucking C project is written in a different build system with no homogenous way to figure out the dependencies or even how to build? Real distros have fags who sit around for hours a day testing different versions of dependencies with your package to see which ones don't cause it to straight up crash. There's no magic around this.

I don't know any, you win on this point
You only really need the former (Sourcemage uses neither) as no one in their sane mind would use systemdick, but that's also right.
also right, but again most people just need the default gahnoo one
Emacs 25.1 is in test fam

w-w-w-why do you have to be so rude user-sama? you know its not true.

why don't you just get the kernel you want fam
packages in the main tree are all libre as in Fedora, but just like Fedora they use a normal kernel

sourcemage.org/Quill/Workflow

That's only updating, m8. Most ebuilds don't even need this, since the PV variable is used everywhere possible.
I really want to try it in a kvm, but the latest ISO is old as fuck.

But, honestly, it could become better than Gentoo with time/effort.

Because I actually do things with Linux rather than pretend to be a developer by needlessly rebuilding packages.

except that rtorrent is a protocol that transfers files

what's disgusting there? except for you being retarded

Quill is an interactive spell generating and updating tool. It's meant to eventually become the be-all for spell manipulation.
true
tfw it's been going since 2000

w-w-w-what do you mean p-p-pretend??!
It's for the /optimization/ user, besides, once you get it set up for the first time it'll require very little user effort
It's called GNU plus Linux, user. Who's the REAL developer now?!

m-maybe it's your mum's face that's disgusting in there!!1!

Bittorrent is a file transfer protocol, and rtorrent is an application. If you try to be pedantic, don't fail this hard.
I mean, just use Gentoo's categories, net-p2p is perfect for this.

If they have a hardened libre kernel I could deblob and willing to support it I'll consider it.

benis :-DDDDD

iirc source mage is based on linux from scratch

I bet you think the blue e is literally the internet too.

I am already spoken for.

Because GuixSD is the best thing to happen to linux this decade.

Is hardware support still ass? Will it ever leave alpha or is it in perpectual version 0.x for eternity like Hurd?

What is so great about it? Last time I checked it was a semi-functional NixOS fork.
Also it's pozzed as fuck. All major devs are literal fags.

Post a benchmark or fuck off

This.

NixOS is the best thing to happen to GNU+Linux. GuixSD is mere theft.

Because its users think chink cartoons and wanking over package management are enough to sell people on it, which means it has no real value.

The Nix team wholeheartedly support Guix and GuixSD. The two projects are based on the same whitepaper.

It's not a fork. Guix is an independent implementation. I don't care who the developers are, the important issue for me is whether the software works or not. I know it works because it follows after the same model that Nix follows.

cuck

Seriously what are the benefits of pulseaudio? I only remember it becoming adopted because it did mixing, but ALSA has dmix. I have no clue why I would want a daemon running for my audio. Can someone please enlighten me?

Why would you want a daemon running for your video either? DirectFB is fine.

I realize that you are making a snarky comment, where you disregard reality to make pulseaudio analogous to xorg. For some reason you do that instead of explaining why you like pulseaudio.

I do really like DirectFB. I have reason to use X. I have no reason to use pulseaudio. So thanks for some really enlightening input.

Stop using shitty or outdated programs that have no or incompetent upstream devs.

Network audio routing.
You can set audio routes at will and even change it automatically according to some rules. In ALSA, you have to manually configure the configuration file then restart the demon.

Because source-based distros are shit. I'd rather use a stable distribution, like Debian, or my favourite NixOS.

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sounds like you already looked up the benefits and decided they aren't important then, therefore your first post was nothing but bait

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NixOS

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Anonymous quotes something that wasn't sourced to anyone. It's almost as if he's trying to make an argument. Really makes you think.

Please fuck off to Holla Forums instead of lowering the quality of this board.
Pathetic.

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Hello m712. Back to nextchan with you, cuck.

Polite sage for offtopic.

This. I honestly would use Sourcemage or Exherbo if I could. Gentoo and Portage are atrociously stupid in so many minor, stupid little ways, but, as with most free software, sometimes good enough is good enough.

While I would like to say that I use paludis and Exherbo and I contribute to Exherbo development in some minor ways just to exercise the freedom that Exherbo gives in contrast to Gentoo, the fact is that there are practical consequences to using a desktop that is mostly unstable packages, and, regardless of how smart you are, you can only fix so much.

Sourcemage is a hassle when you get into the nitty-gritty of things, and Exherbo isn't trustworthy.

Gentoo is easy. It's not elegant, but it's easy. It's not perfect, but it's reliable. I trust Gentoo.

bash is comparable in speed to C when you subtract overhead

not true, by the way

Go use Exherbo, enjoy your half hour dependency resolution cycles, manual caching hacks, C++ stacktraces as user error messages and every basic quality-of-life suggestion getting wontfix'ed.

ciaranm is a drepper/tuomov-tier faggot and deserved his kickban

no, actually it is true "if you substract overhead"

Nobody gives a shit about your opinion.

I don't know who this m712 is (hint hint another imaginary friend of yours), but it seems like you have the "everyone i don't like is $bad_thing WAAAAH" syndrome. Seek professional help.
I hope you die a slow and painful death. You're worse than fucking 9gag.

thats the joke.

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