Day one without Net Neutrality

Today is the first full day since June 12 2015 without Net Neutrality. I have not been billed for my Holla Forums package or my internet shopping package. Maybe my ISP forgot about me. Hopefully I can protect my precious bodily fluids from the ISPs while i fill out this google captcha. More soon….I hope.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/BfzbgD1r6S8
youtube.com/channel/UCWhQgvMD2rldcQ3qMaAGEfA
arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/one-big-reason-we-lack-internet-competition-starting-an-isp-is-really-hard/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Keep it simple, and short.

WHAT is Net Neutrality? And why do you, or do you not, support it?

Too be honest I was hoping the internet would die forever so we could all move on with our lives, but alas, we're all still fucking here

my internet works much faster since yesterday, fucking based FCC

VPN stands for Very Private Network

Corps using government regulation to control other Corps
We do not need more regulations. We need less. Giving the FCC any power over the internet would more likely lead to Ham radio like regulation not "neutrality".

There was actually been net neutrality since August 6 1991, it just wasn't legally protected.

I swear anyone that is happy about this is getting paid, owns an ISP or is clinically retarded.

PLEASE explain. I'm fascinated.

Here is a decent explanation.

youtu.be/BfzbgD1r6S8

So I'm still kind of confused on what the people who support it are so upset about, and what the people who do not support it are so happy about.

What specifically is, or was, the problem?

No

*VPN stands for ==Virgin Pedo Niggers==

Kinda like your Mom XD

They were told without Net Neutrality their ISP would break the internet up in to packages like cable. Something that no ISP ever proposed. This claim came about during the original NN hearings from the Pro NN people.

NN came about after Netflix ISP informed netflix they would not renew their contract at the same price because they are using too much data compared to their other corp customers. Netflix investers threw a fit and NN was born.

I'm against it and the reason is pretty simple, there is no logical motive to repeal it unless the ISPs intend to take advantage of the freedom they will be granted. No matter how they chose to use this power there is no advantage for the end user.
On top of this the most profitable option for ISPs is to monopolize their network and while people will claim "the free market will stop that" there are only so many physical cables that are the physical internet and they are extremely expensive making it very unlikely a startup could afford it.


youtube.com/channel/UCWhQgvMD2rldcQ3qMaAGEfA

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The FCC regulates HAM operation. There was a time when you could freely broadcast over the air. Then someone said something someone did not like and the FCC was brought in to regulate. At first it was simply guidelines later tests were added and finally registration with call signs that could be tracked back to anyone violating the quality of HAM communication with lies and hate. Sound familiar yet?

the free market doesnt help shit because people are always willing to pay for convenience above all else.

By this, do you mean only certain channels are offered? But with net neutrality, we could pay for the lowest package available, something like 5mbps service, and still access all sites on the web?

You will be pleased to know that NN did not actually stop ISPs from creating a cable like package system then. It just made it illegal for them to charge netflix a streaming service more than say HP who utilizes the internet for a website and emails. If anything NN was bad for the little guy who was going to pick up the tab for netflix and youtube/googles data use.

With neutrality repealed it's now legal for your ISP to stop you visiting any site they like for whatever reason.

That was the claim of the pro NN lobbyests yes. No ISP ever proposed this and NN did not actually prevent this. It prevented the ISPs from charging the corps who use more data more than the corps who used less

This is incorrect and NN never prevented this either.

ah yes because they charge based on how much it costs them, not how much they think youre willing to pay.
just because it would make fair sense for something to work out like that is no reason that it will. because pricing is never based on fairness.

With any luck ICANN is next.

Welcome, I see you're new to this planet.

I am not a corp and I am not where ISPs make the majority of their revenue. This is one of the larger issues with the pro NN crowd. They think it affected them when it only affected large corps. Will those charges be reflected in a higher netflix bill or a higher ISP bill is where we come in. Since i do not watch netflix I would rather it came down on the optional Netflix side than the required ISP side.

I'm just pointing out the obverse to those that don't see what is coming.

I've got a big one

youre placing a lot of faith in them in not finding new ways to drain muh bank account.
netflix can burn in hell for all i care but more than anything im worried about them taking this a step further now that theyre able to and tweaking my price based on what websites i go to. this is a never ending push and likely the beginning of a snowball.

But that sounds pretty sensible, doesn't it? All data has to be sent and stored somewhere, doesn't it? How else will ISP's make money if the data they provide can't be stored somewhere? And then what happens to any internet-based service when data can't be stored anymore because upkeep is too expensive because big business says they aren't going to pay for their extra usage and storage?
Corporations like Netflix are upset about using more data, and not getting to pay the same amount of money for the data usage and storage as a small blog site hosted by some small name host?

I am not placing any faith in the ISPs. I am just calling out regulation for what it is, why it was put in place and what it leads to.


Then why join them in defending NN for their own personal gain? The ISP raises their price for you with NN. Without NN the ISP can charge netflix more for their use and potentially lower costs to individuals. Will they do that for more than a 1 year sign up fee? I guess we will see. I wont hold my breath but I am glad there is no reason for the ISP to charge me for Netflix and youtubes data use.

Provided that blog is using the corp rate, yes. Again the push for NN all came about after Netflix ISP informed them they would either be charging them more or throttling their service due the the amount of data use. So netflix and their investers lobbyed for NN to regulate ISPs. They told the internet they were saving it when in fact they were clogging it up and making you pay for it.

when i can only be for or against this im bound to side with someone i dont care for. i just dont see this benefiting me. it was an irrelevant jab at them because i like it when people listen to me complain.
they offer a service that is irrelevant to me and i lean towards dislike because im a hipster, but i dont have to deal with them, i do have to deal with internet service providers and i have plenty of experience with just how much they love trying to rip you off.
so anything that benefits them while potentially harming me i am of course going to view with a lot of skepticism.
i simply do not believe they would lower costs for anyone not using netflix because its been shown that people are already willing to pay this much.
thats the boundary theyre always trying to push and the only time it goes in reverse is when it would make them less money to go further.

So a small time blog site is paying the same rate for data storage as a big time company is like Netflix.
A single user is paying the same rate for a plan that a business is
But Netflix ends up using so much god damn data compared to the small blog site that the ISP has to either make Netflix pay for the extra usage, or the ISP will have to throttle their services.
The business ends up using so much data that its employees can't all use the internet at the same time without either everyone's connection being metered, or whoever was first is served first

So do you really think we're taking the heat for something between Netflix and their ISP? It's kind of cheap don't you think; not to admit that computer users will use more data in a month than a phone user could in years, but the phone user's service will be throttled at data usage cap and the PC user can get away with it because of better hardware running backwards compatible updates? But phone service providers own the cables and grids that also connect PC users to the internet, right

What you are missing is that if NN stays your ISP price goes up while the netflix stays the same. With NN gone there is at the very least the potential for the ISP to reduce their price or keep it at the current rate.


Phone service is much tighter band width and much more limited. When you get in to phone service you get in to a whole different bunch of regulations. Deregulating cell phone and removing taxes on them would certainly lower your bill since they have a straight up tax right on your bill. It would also close down a fairly large part of the FCC. The cell phone companies were regulated and taxed and passed it right on to you just as NN did. The difference is the internet tax never had a chance to get put in place. It had been discussed even before NN. If you want to fight then fight regulation not deregulation. Regulation always leads to more legislation that then requires funding and that is when your tax suddenly appears on your bill.

isps throttle your internet and impose data caps anyways, even when they advertise it as unlimited. if they were to claim netflix causes them to drive their prices up they are outright lying. with net neutrality it is not of their concern where that data is spent unless its something illegal.

This is, Debunking Conspiracies with user
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True it is right there in your contract. NN does not affect you aside from your ISP bill going up to pay for Netflix and youtubes data use. With NN gone now ISPs can charge Netflix and youtube more who will then charge you more for their service if you choose to use it while your ISP has the potential to lower your bill or keep it the same. Again i do not expect any ISP to lower your bill even with NN gone but keeping it at the current rate is better than paying netflix and youtubes bills.

however, losing net neutrality means the isps are allowed to charge their own netflix and youtube bill, if they wish.
the rates never stay current, peoples internet bills go up constantly for no reason other than that they are able to do so. to the consumer, the point of net neutrality was to limit their options on how they will rip you off.
if it is profitable and they can get away with it, then it will happen. that is the number one lesson of our earth.

This is not correct. This is what they told you when NN was introduced then they went right ahead and ignored it. NN never stopped ISPs from doing this. NN stopped ISPs from charging data heavy Corp users more than other data light Corp users.

Bills often increase with demand and NN prevented ISPs from charginf corps who were high demand like Netflix more. Aside from nothing being for nothing, saying that there is no reason for rate hikes is to ignore inflation alone without even considering any other factors.

This is simply incorrect

NN does not prevent this number one lesson of our earth. It is a result of it.

By that logic there is no need to have motorcycle helmet laws repealed unless you intend on not wearing a helmet. WTF? All that the law repeal does here is eliminate the legal requirement to behave the way everyone but a few huge corporations are behaving anyway. For most people, there will be no difference. Your Netflix bill might go up. Big deal. But your internet connection is not going to get throttled, and you are not going to have to buy a "website package". First off, there is no way to actually control the internet that way, and secondly nobody would pay for that if they could control it that way. The market would flood with new ISPs that offer traditional services for cheaper prices, and that would be the end of it.
So quit your teenaged autistic fear-mongering already.

why are these shills so caught up on netflix?

This is my opinion as well based on the outrage generated by what people were told NN was. Look at their reaction and the pure hate toward ISPs who never proposed anything like this but were practically raped when the Pro NN people suggested it. If the people who supported NN knew that NN as implimented straight up ignored this I think they would have been shitting on netflix and google since the Obama era NN hearings.


This is happening more and more in rural areas where cable is still fairly popular and FIOS is not available. There are a lot of DSL ISPs popping up and with the death of NN there is a good chance there will be a great deal more soon.


Netflix is where NN regulation basically all began user. With Netflix's ISP threatening to charge them more for their data use than other corps that are not using nearly the same amount of data.

We had net neutrality in 1992, sir

given the lack of choice in the american domestic isp market, the poor rural coverage, consumer dissatisfaction with the big 3 and frankly 3rd worldish speeds for most homes, you'd have thought competition would have kicked in by now.
arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/one-big-reason-we-lack-internet-competition-starting-an-isp-is-really-hard/

Which brings us right back to NN. Why would an aspiring ISP want to be regulated in to providing high data business or corp users the same service as low data users. With NN gone I expect there will be a resurgence of small local run ISPs in rural areas.

netflix uses a fuckton of bandwidth, if anything it would be the starting point for "pay for access to X service"

but theyre only transferring data that the customer has paid for anyways. when they go over the limit they simply stop, throttle, or charge extra fees. to the customer. they dont pay for it.

But they do user. They pay for it in many ways from rental of the lines to customer service calls asking why their internet is running so slow.

my internet is already slowing down tbh

It is probably the CIA syncing your pictures and videos folders up with their archive.

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I know I can't be the only one who wants to feel Ajit Pai's flesh against my 9 iron, right

6

a small isp has to have its own local network. this means digging holes in the road and laying fibre. that alone is prohibitively expensive. then it must buy bandwidth from transit isps to connect with the rest of the world. then it must find customers and connect them individually, or hire the existing copper network from whichever isp owns it. this requires mountains of money and entails a very long and nervous wait for profits.
before the repeal, at least local isps could be sure that the transit carriers would do their best to transit traffic for everyone in the same manner.
now they can't. infact, it's reasonable to assume that the bulk carriers will give preferential tarifs to legacy isps, helping them to squeeze small isps to death, buy up their assets and recuperate their market share.