UK POLITICS GENERAL

Given how turbulent UK politics is at the moment, I thought it might be good to have a general thread for a while? Mods if you want to cycle it (or even sticky it?) that might be cool.

BREAKING NEWS

Johnson will not stand for Tory leadership; Tory party throws the upcoming election by putting its least charismatic politicians up for leadership.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36672591
bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

IN THE LABOUR PARTY

Angela Eagle contests Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, again hoping to make the Labour Party as unpopular and unappealing as it possibly could be for the inevitable GE on its way

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36667795

BREXIT, THE AFTERMATH

Turns out it wasn't quite as simple as "Leave" or "Remain" after all.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36671629

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36659900

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36656753

Other urls found in this thread:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36668919
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36643385
yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/
youtube.com/watch?v=kX0PLjsYsNs
youtube.com/watch?v=ZtZzefn9GrI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair
twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/748600835098165248
anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-jobseekers-back-to-work-bill.html
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36671409
youtube.com/watch?v=Mrg-2I8rO5Q
archive.is/oeDJj
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36680463
huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/angela-eagle-backs-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-motion-of-no-confidence_uk_5772a5d8e4b08d2c563a1dea
morningstaronline.co.uk/a-5b4f-Congressman-pushing-for-TTIP-all-over-again
telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/labour-in-crisis-angela-eagle-and-owen-smith-in-talks-over-toppl/
independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-election-poll-support-angela-eagle-dan-jarvis-tom-watson-2016-eu-a7113036.html
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36696712
thecanary.co/2016/07/01/senior-labour-party-insider-says-plan-oust-corbyn-play-10-months-ago-exclusive/
youtu.be/w0TxuOdWQDc
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468
rt.com/business/349427-osborne-cut-corporation-tax/
bbc.co.uk/news/health-36714792
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36707255
bbc.co.uk/news/education-36703785
youtu.be/b5ISF_0aNG4
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Woolfe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Nuttall
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_James
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Evans
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3674831/The-sheer-incompetence-paranoid-Labour-leadership-Jeremy-Corbyn-sits-silently-munching-noodles.html
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36721645
telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/06/defeated-labour-rebels-admit-its-finished-as-jeremy-corbyn-refus/
liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/showdown-wallasey-mp-angela-eagles-11581258
theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/labour-iraq-war-leader-corbyn-trickett-momentum-rally
mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/question-time-audience-shouts-protest-8375397
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36737426
cursedeblogger.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/facts-about-meps/
youtube.com/watch?v=2OzV53zj1PA
opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/as-trade-unionist-this-is-why-britain-must-vote-to-leave
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756975
youtube.com/watch?v=YAOWbqgxiWk
theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/10/brexit-vote-paves-way-for-federal-union-says-all-party-group
fafo.no/~fafo/media/com_netsukii/EftychiaAchtsioglou.pdf
elaweb.org.uk/resources/ela-briefing/laval-viking-line-and-limited-right-strike
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36761370
theguardian.com/books/2016/jun/04/dear-britain-letters-from-europe-referendum
twitter.com/Politicalpolls_/status/752104844115279872
youtube.com/watch?v=vbddqXib814
twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/752556850319679488
europe.newsweek.com/brexit-eu-referendum-left-wing-politics-europe-zizek-474322
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36770627
theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/12/jeremy-corbyn-must-be-on-labour-leadership-ballot-paper-party-rules-nec
twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/752959808505049088
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36778135
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36780715
morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d9b4-Labour-right-thugs-threaten-own-side#.V4TvcKLAGUn
youtube.com/watch?v=16BtpSCufU0
youtube.com/watch?v=PE79jlv4V-A
youtube.com/watch?v=pZvAvNJL-gE
youtube.com/watch?v=94ptAcbfKP0
theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/17/micheal-martin-says-ireland-could-see-reunification-referendum
twitter.com/BBCNewsbeat/status/754647549970030592
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

The Tory leadership contestants are…

Theresa May, Michael Gove, Stephen Crabb, Liam Fox and Andrea Leadsom

Any one of them as Tory Party leader, and Corbyn can mop the floor. They're playing into his hands, what the hell is going on.

So what are the odds of scotland leaving the UK for the EU?

I want to see some empire nostalgic tears.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36668919

Depends on what the EU says.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36643385

I remember hearing that Theresa May is polling the best out of those, pretty sure that is great for Corbyn.

Yup.
yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/

I want to see her polled against Corbyn for PM material though.

Maybe I'm immature, but I had a modest kek over this image.

I hope Theresa "Privatise the Police" May becomes leader of the Conservatives.

I'll have a field day in memes.

I just can't believe they'd do something so suicidal. She is so unlikable, reminiscent of Thatcher, there is no way the Tories can win a GE with her at their helm, especially not against Corbyn.

So will there be a Labour leadership election before the GE?

Yeah, probably sometime in the next month or two.

I think you'd be surprised.

Is anyone else involved in the push for a second referendum? Overlooked issue Imo.

Cameron denied having another, 2/3rds of yougov polled against having a second ref.

I don't see a second referendum happening in at least 2 years. If it even does happen.

It's not overlooked. Best chance for remain camp is a chance for a snap election with a strong coalition.

Do you really think this will happen?

Potentially. It's an opportunity that needs to be seized ASAP. Although the user above you made some good points too.

Yeah, but fuck the EU. I don't get why so many leftists are pro-EU. Maybe they think DiEM25 will work?

There's no point having another referendum until we fix our utterly dishonest and morally bankrupt media. Democracy is a joke at the moment.

In related news, pic related is the latest attempt to backstab Corbyn. What Corbyn actually said was:

Anti-corbyn shillpress is getting pathetic.

from the Guardian "Jeremy Corbyn was engulfed in a fresh row over Israel when he appeared to compare the government of Binyamin Netanyahu to Islamic extremists at the launch of an independent review into antisemitism in the Labour party."

speech youtube.com/watch?v=kX0PLjsYsNs
Apparently pointing out the inconsistencies in the thought process of antisemites is akin to supporting ISIS. Please.

also from guardian "The Jewish Labour MP Ruth Smeeth called on Corbyn to resign after he failed to intervene when she was verbally abused by a Momentum activist at the same antisemitism event."

The implication being of course that the MP suffered an antisemetic attack, when really, the activist accused her of being paid by the daily telegraph (lel).

A second referendum will only strengthen the right even further. Their big selling point is that the "leftist" elite hates democracy and the people. If they can start arguing with actual basis in fact that the british people voted to leave the EU and their wishes were suppressed by the that sinister metropolitan elite, then they'll gain further strength.

We've voted out. The best way forward now is to argue for a properly left-wing future outside of the EU, then maybe rejoining it in the future. I dunno.


You vile anti-semites, don't you know you can't criticise any Jewish people in the media. That's anti-semitism.

I still don't think elected police commissioners were a bad idea, that's a left wing policy if anything. Giving the people some influence (not much sure) into what the ruling class' private army can do.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZtZzefn9GrI

In all seriousness fuck democracy. If the right comes to power "democratically" you better believe I'm not just waiting around to get deported.

Having a second referendum - or ignoring the first - is stabbing Western democracy in the back. It's political suicide for any leader in the UK to suggest and it's pure wishful thinking on the part of media outlets (BTW that petition is being investigated for voter manipulation - the BBC fucking reported on it I don't know why they're bringing it up again).

The Leave is happening barring the outbreak of WW3 and there is not a damn thing you I or anyone else can do about it.

based Finkelstein.

How are you okay with this?

Yeah. Did you see that one female MP's statement like..
because she was criticised for something completely unrelated to her religion? Just pathetic.

Also, there was a separate story on the Guardian early pointing out how there was a typo in one of the emails the Corbyn team sent out today. A literal fucking typo (it said Corybn instead of Corbyn at one point)

She reminds me so much of Sophia from Shimoneta its unreal. Replace sex with terrorists and they're literally the same person.

Does that mean that she has a daughter who wants to commit acts of terrorism without realising that it's terrorism?

It's not a question of being happy with it. The question is how we deal with it. And unless we're going to be murdering fascists in the street, we need to accept that these people wre going to get to vote. And marginalising and attempting to suppress them is precisely what we've been trying to do for years and it's only strengthened them.

Truth. Pushing for 2nd ref is pointless.

The argument will make itself for us; in or out, it makes little difference under capitalism.

Eagle sounds starkly similar to a British Clinton.

This is a controversial statement?

If these people think fundamentalist Islam is bad, they should see how deep the Orthodox Jewish rabbit hole goes.

Norman Finkelstein is the fucking man.

What this is you're going on about?

Nice pirate trips m80 :^)

Thats typical female blairite retoric
Kendell, Cooper used it at the last leadership election.

Blairites are pro while the left of the party are against

Traditional blairite retoric. We would be having this if labour won 2015. Why vote labour when we can have the real thing?

Corbyn is a god send for the left. I hope dear leader keeps fighting.

Because anything Corbyn says will be twisted. Doesn't matter how reasonable; its controversial because it comes from him. Or so they think

the person who becomes prime minister has to deal with the brexit aftermath, bojo basically said fuck this shit im outta here.jpg

Hype for Thornberry question time.

Oh god, this is what britbongs mean by "Blairite"? How can this kind of nonsense be in a party called Labour?

At least the Democratic Party in the US was already completely classcucked before it had a doomed shot at being left wing. This is just treason.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair
Basically a campier George Bush II with worse teeth


Will the honorable gentleman opposite no doubt concede that this mp4 is hilarious?
RAAAAAA RAAAAAAAAA
Mis-
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUWAAAAAAHAAAAAA
MIS TER SPEA KER

Yes pls

Is the consensus here that Corbyn would be more than capable of winning a GE?

What on earth makes you guys think that?

Well, Steven Crabb is making sure he's as alienated as possible. Only recently he called homosexuality as a curable disease.

This kind of shit also has me worried. Should be wake up call to the LGBT community.

Look at his opposition. Ukeep/Labour coaliiton?

GG you've just murdered a man today.

All the Conservatives have to do is field a candidate who """supports""" lower immigration and Corbyn's dead in the water. Labour have lost Scotland meaning they'd have to beat the Tories in England and Wales (especially the north). How on earth will Corbyn be able to do that?

Look at the amount of support he has. People are organising rallies in the streets to support him. Labour party membership is growing massively under his leadership. I can't remember a single politician who has received that kind of support for an internal leadership election.

Also, given a choice between supporting a Blairite New Labour leader and watching the Labour party implode and destroy itself, I'd pick the latter.

In the last 7 days, 60,000 people have joined the Labour party

twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/748600835098165248

Socialism uhh….working class…uhh….fuck the Tories, innit?


IT'S HAPPENING

None of that means anything because he's still barely reaching the Conservatives' numbers in the polls.

I browse this place because I'm keen to learn, not because I'm hard-lefty (one day maybe). In spite of that I want to see Corbyn stay just to see what happens. I think he'll get utterly bumraped in a general election and the PLP aren't helping him on that front – but nonetheless it'll be interesting.

He's been savaged by his own treacherous MPs and by the right-wing media. The PLP have been constantly leaking internal communications to the media, and even going as far as to stage PR stunts to create false outrage against Corbyn.

It's actually incredibly good that he's even coming close to the Conservatives' polling numbers under these circumstances. As soon as he wins this leadership election and purges the backstabbing twats from his party, he should be able to start actually running a real campaign and winning over swing voters.

Sometimes I can understand why Stalin did what he did.

Well if the right manages to impose immigration restriction that trend could reverse. That's why the referendum needs to be dealt with somehow.

He was hitting that ceiling when things were rosy long before the coup. Six years of Tory rule and he's totally unable to overtake them numerically.


Does he have any intention of winning over swing voters? Is compromise in his lexicon? How would he go about doing so – what policies would you go for?

I reckon if McDonnell were in charge they'd have a chance. He's ten times more charismatic than Corbyn whilst still retaining Corbyn's warmth/kind-nature.

Funny, me and my mum were discussing this - she wondered how long it would be until Theresa May starts sporting a handbag.

Increasingly likely - based on current polling, a second IndyRef would turn out 60/40 in favour of leaving the UK.

Given that the UK-wide media essentially forgot about Scotland during the EU referendum since it was considered (and turned out to be) a foregone conclusion, it's hardly surprising that the English are realizing that they've jeopardized one of their most prized spooks for the sake of an asinine argument about Immigration.

The trouble is, if they really go into the nuts and bolts of it, the Leave campaign's argument would unravel entirely. Also, if said candidate were to support Brexit to its fullest extent, it'd completely fuck the economy, which wouldn't do their reputation much good. On the other hand, if they weren't sufficently xenophobic then it would probably upset the many English people that don't want an Eastern European living next door. The only positive of that scenario is that either way, it's going to kill off the Two-Party System once and for all.

Presuming that Corbyn wins the leadership vote then we're probably looking at mass defection.

The PLP have been leaking stories to the press and actively sabotaging him since he first became leader. The media have also been going out of their way to condemn him for just as long.

Literally the only thing he needs to do is kick out the traitors in his party. His policies are fine and could definitely win over a lot of voters if he didn't have to focus on pulling knives out of his back every day.

The party is immobilized at this point. The expectation that voters are going to be won over by a party at war with itself is ludicrous. That also doesn't imply that there is a ceiling for electoral support by virtue of a worst/best scenario between then and now in the polls.

The split within the party is just hardening the support for Corbyn at this point. To such a degree that

voters whether genuine or otherwise are joining in the fight.

So long as Corbyn survives the split, the uptake for the party is going to be huge.

Yeah the Labour right are basically just our Shillary clones. Making all this fuss about how they need Corbyn gone to mount a strong opposition but forgetting the fact that they wouldn't actually oppose a thing.

And the media will continue to do so. Wishing it away means nowt.

So they splinter off SDP-style thus splitting the vote in numerous constituencies and grant the Cons a majority? There is no way this will work out for Corbyn. He's screwed, partially out of his own ineptitude, partially out of his party's backstabbing.

Out of interest, what is this board's thoughts on the 'soft left'? Or is anyone who isn't a socialist a blairite scum?

Well, Corbyn isn't really a socialist himself. He's a socdem who supports some degree of nationalisation.

Personally I'll support anyone who I think will actually make the world a better place. Some very definitely non-socialist ideas like UBI have merit. I could support the Lib Dems simply on civil liberties grounds.
In fact, I'd support almost anyone running against Theresa May or her ilk.

That's intriguing. What were your thoughts on Miliband?

I don't think he'd make the world a better place. In fact, he almost certainly made it a worse place. He was just another Tory-lite.


anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-jobseekers-back-to-work-bill.html

If it's a true rehash of the last time around then they'll eventually join the Lib Dems. But I don't really see any way out of this impasse other than the party splitting.

Liberal scum. Worse than rightists, honestly. They're neoliberal wastes of space who pander to IDpol.

Why are they worse than rightists?

Because right-wing bullshit is blatant. 'left'-liberals portray themselves as a genuine opposition, when they support the status quo with a few ostensibly left-wing social policies.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36671409

If they try to pull this shit…

the balairites re the equivalent of americas third way democrats, you know Hillary pretending she loves black people then taking kickbacks from the private prison industry.
You hate the right but you know who the right are, they dont pretend not to be the rightwing.


I am genuinely shocked with how out of touch these people are, like do you really think they will win if they oust corbyn?

If the worst comes to the worst Corbyn could form his own party and receive the backing of the unions and a lot of current Labour members.

That'd really be admitting defeat though; taking the Labour Party into the handa of the left wing working class was the whole point really. Leaving to form another sect-like minor party - even a large one - would be a major loss to the movement. Unions aren't likely to disaffiliate that easily.

This.
Purging Labour of Blairites and neoliberal austerity hawks is the entire point. Corbyn's not going to save the world as a bourgeois PM, but he can strike at the heart of their supposed historical and mandatory legitimacy.

youtube.com/watch?v=Mrg-2I8rO5Q
LSR/Cameron talks about Brexit

Non-Brit (and therefore non-Labour member) here, I have a few questions. I understand Corbyn has a majority support among party members. So can't you guys just get together and:
- threaten your local MPs with deselection if they don't nominate Corbyn?
- actually, can't you do this right fucking now so they stop trying to oust him?
- just deselect them period, whether Corbyn remains in charge or not?

This just seems like an obvious solution to the problems they cause.

Well that's the plan, but a) actually mobilizing for that is tough and b) a lot of CLPs are actually still full of Blairites, not more than Corbyn supporters but in bureaucratic positions, so its harder than one might think to get such motions through CLPs

How would this work? I don't know much about the internal political rules of the Labour party.

If they really succeed in taking him down, I think I'll finally be ready just to end this fucking joke of an existence.

Some polling
archive.is/oeDJj

wat

To say the Labour Party is in a crisis right now is an understatement. If not careful, Tony Blair could be remembered as the last elected Labour prime minister.

Keep Corbyn to change the structures, then sub him out for a candidate like Clive Lewis. Makes sense.

Where the fuck are you third way cucks coming from?

Also, why have none of you heard of Ramsay MacDonald and the NLO?

ONLY A FEW DAYS UNTIL LABOUR LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36680463

I'm well aware of the National Labour Organisation, but these are different times to the '30s; times when social democratic and socialist parties are on the decline all over Europe, and I don't see any evidence of a resurgence of the left.

We might have to accept that Labour has lost Scotland for good, and it's losing its voter base in England and Wales.

I don't see how Corbyn could continue as leader when 80% of his MPs want him gone; no party could win an election in that state. Especially when the party has to convince an electorate that hasn't voted for a left-leaning PM (if you exclude Tony Blair) since 1974, that what the media calls a ‘hard-left’ platform would be good for the country.

Except, you know, Podemos, Syriza, oh and Corbyn himself, the landslide victory for leadership. But I mean that's fine just walk around with your eyes shut.

By getting rid of those MPs, and replacing them with MPs who will support the democratic mandate of the party membership?

Well as you said earlier in your post, times change.
Also,

Social Democracy is in its death knell, Socialism is having a resurgence.

How much of this is just the existing left sliding farther left? How much base growth has been due to immigration?

Can you honestly say the left is experiencing an organic resurgence in the west if your numbers aren't increasing with white proles? In fact they seem to be declining.

Mein gott Holla Forums, Spain hasn't increased it's population by 20% in the past 3 years.

my gott

White proles leave mainstream left parties because of all the harm "third-way" policies did to them.

We either bring back real left and try to get them back on board, or leave their votes to fascists. There's no other option left.


Not really. Social democracy is having a resurgence, social liberalism is in its death kneel, and socialism is as dead as ever.

But small steps, comrade. Small steps.

huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/angela-eagle-backs-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-motion-of-no-confidence_uk_5772a5d8e4b08d2c563a1dea

Fucking kek

"I don't know how Jeremy could be prime minister comfortably when he doesn't have the backing of his peers" seems apt.

Have you all signed up so you can be on your best behaviour?

Friendly correction: death knell

because it has worked out SOOOOOO well in murka where every sheriff has turned into an asshole with a badge

Journo: pathetic
Corbyn: Common sense

Actually yeah, it did work out pretty well for the hundreds of years where communities were responsible for their own law enforcement and regularly elected, chose, or otherwise selected who was to enforce the law on their behalf.

Just because a good idea was implemented in a bad way doesn't mean the idea itself is unsound.

Well, speaking as a white prole, I think we left when you called us racist for objecting to the rape of our daughters and the gleeful destruction of our culture. But what do I know? I'm not part of the enlightened gommunist vanguard.

This partially has to do with electing sheriffs over too wide areas.
Joe Arpaio 'represents' over half his state and rules over 4 million people.
If the electorates were only a few thousand, there's not that much room for them to become assholes.

...

...

It was the Blairites who removed the PLP influence in selecting the Labour leader, too.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36680463

tfw Labour wins back the disenfranchised white working class

Miliband wasn't a blairite, he's soft-left.

Anyone got any decent polls that can compare public approval for Corbyn, Eagle, and the potential Tory leaders? I wanna know what we might expect in a GE in various combinations

Pretty much.

I'll just leave this here:
morningstaronline.co.uk/a-5b4f-Congressman-pushing-for-TTIP-all-over-again

at this point blairite basically just means they became MP while Blair or Brown was PM. it seems to be shorthand for the type of politician rather than actual policy direction

No he's actually a Marxist like his father hiding his power level. I mean just look at him.

telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/labour-in-crisis-angela-eagle-and-owen-smith-in-talks-over-toppl/

BRING IT ON

Who's the least worst contender for the leadership of the Tories? Theresa May worries me because the snooper's charter was her idea, wanted to stay in the EU and seems to be the most popular.

Gove is looking like the least worst option at this point.

That white student union sign looks a bit ancapish.

Is britpol ready for mummy to make chicken tendies real

Will it create political pop music???

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-election-poll-support-angela-eagle-dan-jarvis-tom-watson-2016-eu-a7113036.html


Ezpz

That image is glorious.

Leftist Smug Face is becoming a thing.

THIS IS NOW A LEFTIST SMUG FACE THREAD

gove who got us into this mess? gove who doesn't believe in experts? gove who has made a career of peddling outrage as a journalist? gove who tore apart the country based on lies?

Better than Theresa "Let's abolish human rights" May.

To be fair, that bus looks awesome.

no shit. she'd be my last choice. she'll probably try and kill the internet and i need that to live

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36696712

So I think the BBC is trying to dissuade Remain voters against him in the hope that most of his support was in that camp, pretty hilarious that it's gonna backfire and give Corbyn's Labour more credibility amongst the far larger Leave camp who are, contrary to common belief, mostly not raving racists but simply disaffected working class voters.

More pics like this to share on normiebook etc? Corbyn's true team around him need all the support they can get.

thecanary.co/2016/07/01/senior-labour-party-insider-says-plan-oust-corbyn-play-10-months-ago-exclusive/

youtu.be/w0TxuOdWQDc

This is obvious but needs to be made explicit to the public. This leadership challenge is not about brexit, its about their fundamental disagreement with everything Corbyn stands for.

this shit is killing me

POL GETS BTFO

FARAGE QUITS AS LEADER OF UKIP

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468

Fucking hilarious

Britpol is in shatters hahahahaha

UK govt proposes 15% corporate tax to boost post-Brexit economy

rt.com/business/349427-osborne-cut-corporation-tax/

The UK Chancellor George Osborne is suggesting lowering the corporate tax rate to 15 percent in an effort to encourage businesses to invest in the British economy outside the European Union.''

''Britain currently levies a 20 percent tax on business. The rate is due to be reduced to 19 percent in April and to 17 percent in 2020. A five percent tax cut might make the country one of the most competitive global economies.

...

Tory MPs voting on their new leader begins today. I bet its gonna be May.

They all seem to have jumped on the Leadsom bandwagon now, because of her position on Brexit and le mummy's chicken tendies. BJ is backing her, apparently. Can't wait to see how all this pans out. Do you think she's popular amongst the actual electorate? Not just pol's warped fantasies.

leadsome has kind motherly face and motherly titties, Theresa may looks like a doctor who villain.

Well its not like I expected much better from Holla Forums really

she will make chicken tendies real and then you will feel the force of meme magic

Julia Brewer called Corbyn Normcore.

Leadsome sort of looks like Corbyn's conservative doppelganger.

bbc.co.uk/news/health-36714792 - Doctors reject govts offers, strike action continues


bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36707255 - railway strikes provoke nasty reaction from capitalists


bbc.co.uk/news/education-36703785 - teachers on strike

Strike action, protests of youth and workers, a political class in internal crisis - looking increasingly ripe for revolutionary rumblings here comrades.

went to a momentum rally last night, infiltrating a young labour thing tonight.
Am I slick yet?

Depends, are you just showing up, or are you actually building comrades and steering the organizations towards revolutionary socialism?

inb4 the replacement UKIP Leader is even worse than Farage.

I don't know who the contenders are though.

Tbh whoever they choose, policy is almost irrelevant at this point, within the scope of possibility. What matters is rhetoric and charisma; without Farage UKIP have no appeal, unless they put in someone who can maintain their working class support now that the EU bogey-man has been taken care of (well, at least its been adopted by the Tory party) then they are over.

Their only MP (Carswell) looks likely to leave their party anyway. Keks all round

That's what I'm afraid of.

Then don't be, who do they have? Nuttall?

I dread to think.

How bad is he?

>>>/reddit/ pls. Class Colab is the problem

lol youtu.be/b5ISF_0aNG4

These are the current candidates.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Woolfe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Nuttall
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_James
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Evans

Although Suzanne Evans is currently suspended from the party.

I sure am glad Brexit led to a collapse of the right-wing narrative and the immediate establishment of my flavour of leftism.

Anti-abortion, climate change denyier, anti-smoking ban, wants death penalty reintroduced, wants to ban burquas, wants fox-hunting legal again, basically exactly what you'd expect from this kind of small c conservative.

Comrades, that ship has fucking sailed. The EU would not have us back unless it's under some extremely punitive measures.

We were, in my opinion, better off remaining and then leaving if shit hit the fan, but now the cat is out of the bag we won't be enjoying any of the special negotiated muh privileges of yesteryear.

Pushing for a second referendum until we get the 'correct' answer, under the flag of socialism, will just ensure that the party loses more support and voters as a result.

Besides, Corbyn is a Eurosceptic, does that not give you guys any indicators as to whether or not remaining in a democratically unaccountable, soon-to-become superstate may have been untenable?

The proles have made our bed for us and if we want them on side, we now need to lie in it.

Britain should never had been part of EU in the first place tbh, you guys were always closer to the US.

TODAY'S THE DAY, LADS

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3674831/The-sheer-incompetence-paranoid-Labour-leadership-Jeremy-Corbyn-sits-silently-munching-noodles.html

Porky media is getting nervous. Pretty much everyone in the comments are really cool though.

...

Apparently the fucker takes like 9 hours to read.

I hope justice is served.

Undoubtedly.
The report will be an extremely long excuse basically saying "mistakes were made, but no individual can be held accountable".

Classic ruling class, absolutely classic

You british are lucky you even got some shit like chillcot at least, blair wont go to prison because the system is corrupt, but at leas he is officially scum.
Bush and cheny and the rest of those neocon fuckers are walking free unfortunately

"Findings at a glance"

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36721645

For anyone interested. Thus far looks more like a "baaad Tony" than any form of actual punishment or consequence for him.

Bump famrades

telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/06/defeated-labour-rebels-admit-its-finished-as-jeremy-corbyn-refus/


BLARITES TRIGGERED BY JEZZA'S HUGE MANdate

THE SODIUM LEVELS ARE HIGH

We did it lads!

Absolutely fantastic.

liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/showdown-wallasey-mp-angela-eagles-11581258


Her own local constituency is backing Corbyn, Eagle's attempt is surely in the trash now.

It sucks that they can't even recall her and have someone else as their Labour MP. A truly bizarre state of affairs.

I bet Eagle got in on a women's only shortlist too, I can't imagine she would have won the nomination if there was a bigger pool of candidates to choose from.

...

theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/labour-iraq-war-leader-corbyn-trickett-momentum-rally

Blarites on suicide watch

mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/question-time-audience-shouts-protest-8375397

THEY ARE STILL FUCKING DEFENDING HIM

Blarites are literally making Corbyn to look more like the good guy day by day while also making the public hate them even more than they already do.

fucking triggered

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36737426

So it's mummy or mummy.


So that means only May and Leadsom get through to the next and final round…

Mummy thread?

Theresa "Privatise the police n stop the immigrants" May looks like the clear candidate to me tbh

This is terrible news. She hates freedom. It was her snoopers charter, she was all for banning porn. The only good thing she has ever done IMO was kicking out that hook-handed bastard. May has essentially said she will forgo secure borders to stay in the single market. Things will get messy if she tries.

She also wants to remove the human rights act - even before we left the EU - to replace it with our own bill of rights, like america.

I told everyone this would happen, but did anyone listen, noooo.

>find this: cursedeblogger.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/facts-about-meps/

No wonder it was such a "failed project"

Zizek had good analysis brexit. Basically EU was trying to enforce more welfare state and British goverment was against it. Tory will make Britain even more right wing than before now that EU is out of the way.

pls no

You mean IF they actually leave.

in the process of making GB fullneolib, there is a chance there will be no GB left.

There seems to have been a drop in news on the coup in the last few days, h-have we won, comrades?

We won't have won until the blairites have been purged and the PLP genuinely gets behind Vampire Jezza. Until then, it's a ceasefire at best. They've just realised that this coup has failed and they can't beat Corbyn properly. Expect more sabotage and guerilla warfare from the traitors.

They're right though, if legislation fails to pass through EU Parliament, the executive commission merely has to override their decision. The executive committee is elected by the public to nobody's surprise.

This.
I wish we could live in an anarcho-socialist influenced by the ideas of the Situationists, but I don't think I will ever see that before I eventually die.
So, if I could see the UBI implemented for real in my lifetime, I would be quite happy.
Sure, it's just life-support for capitalism, and definitely anti-accelerationism, but people would be freer to do want they want, more relaxed and less criminal IMO.

say that again when your government is being flooded by thousands a week of foreigners you didnt ask nor want who are neither educated nor capable of being in your society, who cant even read their own language let alone the one all your land is written in

immigrant lovers always always love them from far away, except of course for the few who get raped and then blame everyone but the rapist for the vile crime


communism in its ideal has no state or in other words no coercive hierarchy telling people what to do
most people prefer their backyard fenced off, not to have you picnic in it and leave garbage after eating their gardens fruits

Angela Eagle says she'll stand on monday.

Stop.

EU is more socialist when uk tory government.
youtube.com/watch?v=2OzV53zj1PA

Its not 'more socialist'. Its slightly less neoliberal.

I wish you would get raped

?????

The EU is anything but socialist, it is but a neoliberal monster just like the tories and while the tories have a chance at some getting rid of worker rights it is the job of the left to protect those very same rights. Additionally the laws protecting workers in the EU are always regarded as secondary to the wishes of the bourgeois.

One might say it is possible to reform the EU but that in fact is nothing more than a utopian delusion.

opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/as-trade-unionist-this-is-why-britain-must-vote-to-leave

You're right. When has reform and change ever happened? Apart from just about everywhere.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756975

Eagle and Corbyn both doing interviews today, she's gonna formally contest on Monday. If you haven't already, join the Labour Party and help Corbyn keep his place - they're purging socialists from the party by the day, but if more keep joining they can't remove his support entirely.

As a pro-deselection, ex-SP and Trot, I haven't been expelled nor do I know of any comrades getting expelled. Can't say the same about my local MP, we're voting on his deselection tomorrow kek

Which MP?

I know a few people who have been expelled due to their affiliation with other political groups and organizations. But yeah, mostly they're only purging the people that are well-known names; editors or writers for socialists papers, etc. They don't have the time or resources to go through and check out every member and purge every socialist .

this is Corbyn's "competition":

youtube.com/watch?v=YAOWbqgxiWk

She came 4th in the fucking deputy leader race last year.

4th.

Deputy leader.

But no, no, of course - Corbyn is unelectable.

Bitch voted for the Iraq war. She's dead in the water

She's too pathetic to be serious. She'll commit political suicide by standing first then someone moderately competent from the right will probably step up as the real candidate.

I don't really understand the plan, with Eagle. I mean the Blairites must know she's gonna fail, right? Why are they doing this? Sheer desperation, or is her failing part of some grander plan for mass walkout and 1983 all over again?

If their performance in elections since Blair left is anything to go by, planning isn't their strong suit.

Nice moving the goalpost, they are getting at why it is at least possible to stop your country from becoming a neoliberal shithole outside of EU, and that it inevitably will under the EU. You will not only have one but two neoliberal governments forcing more and more neoliberalism and austerity onto your country.

You're implying the effect is cumulative. It isn't.

Anyway, no sane leftist can deny that it was a horrible mistake to let the Conservatives control the entire exit process including negotiating with the EU, establishing trade deals, and deciding on what laws will replace the EU ones. We've already got one candidate talking about withdrawing from the ECHR and the other talking about scrapping basic workers rights for "small" (read: most) businesses.

The Blairites would almost certainly prefer the Tories win again than Labour under Corbyn do. Same as Hillary's establishment Democrats. A left wing leader means and end to the careerism.

theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/10/brexit-vote-paves-way-for-federal-union-says-all-party-group

FEDERAL UNION

So what? It's all just talk, it does not mean it will go through, how much support does it even have in both houses? Plus Theresa wanted to leave the ECHR before Brexit, the EU does not protect the UK from leaving because it has nothing to do with it. Even if the tories end up causing the UK to leave the ECHR (which in the first place is highly unlikely) it is not the end of the world seeing as it is unenforceable and is more symbolic in the first place. There are numerous parties in the ECHR which are known abusers of human rights such as Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, etc. and being part of the ECHR doesn't stop them at all from abusing human rights.

Its foolish to think that the EU which has already been shown to place the interests of the bourgeois above the rights of workers will not also attack the "basic" rights of workers in the future. The article above goes into how ECJ's viking and laval rulings makes it so that employers rights trump workers rights in the EU. SO here are more articles on how they do that.

fafo.no/~fafo/media/com_netsukii/EftychiaAchtsioglou.pdf

elaweb.org.uk/resources/ela-briefing/laval-viking-line-and-limited-right-strike

I was more getting at that since the EU already blocks socialist policies like Corbyn's rail reform while leaving austerity measures from the Tories are unchallenged(and when the EU wants austerity you kneel), and both who have put employers rights over workers to illustrate that you have two forces of neoliberal government working against the working class.

Forget to mention that because of those rulings worker rights provided by the EU or at home for the most part don't mean squat in the end.

still pay for the spongers
still get dragged into wars
still get spied on
still can't repopulate the highlands
still get ttip
still get tortured

Other than that it's probably alright. If Scotland manages to stay in the EU and tax the shit out of you for use of our common market it could work out pretty well

That's a shame but might come with time. The north of england is closer (culturally) to Scotland than London

(no archive because FT paywall)

Theresa May, the frontrunner to become the next prime minister, has pledged to tackle “vested interests” in the corporate world with plans to put worker representatives on all main British company boards and impose tighter control on executive pay.

Launching her leadership campaign on Monday, the home secretary will call for a “bold positive vision” for a country that works for not just “the muh privileged few”.

The rhetoric will be framed as part of Mrs May’s attempt to be a “One Nation” leader and unite a country divided by the recent vote to leave the EU.

She will also distance herself from the Thatcher years by insisting that her party believes in society and communities — not just markets and individualism.

Her shift towards a fairer corporate system reflects policies adopted by prime minister David Cameron and chancellor George Osborne — and cherry picked from some of former Labour leader Ed Miliband’s policies — such as the living wage, a non-dom tax and a crackdown on buy-to-let investors.

Mrs May’s pitch to the centre ground is a risky tactic given that she needs the support of older, rightwing Conservative members to become party leader. But she sees the chaos in the opposition Labour party — where Angela Eagle will on Monday launch a formal leadership challenge against Jeremy Corbyn — as an opportunity to stake out a centrist position for the Conservatives.

Mrs May will frame herself as the candidate with “strong, proven leadership” at a time of economic and political uncertainty, in an indirect dig at her rival Andrea Leadsom — a junior energy minister who entered parliament in 2010. The less well-known Mrs Leadsom has won support from the grass roots, having campaigned for the Leave camp ahead of the EU referendum.

But Mrs May, who was in the Remain camp alongside Mr Cameron, will on Monday argue that she is the best leader to negotiate a deal for Britain as it leaves the EU: “Brexit means Brexit and we’re going to make a success of it.”

Having been home secretary for six years, Mrs May has a reputation as a steely, uncompromising politician with a focus on trying to cut immigration numbers and taking on the Police Federation.

Today’s speech is designed to show that behind Mrs May’s sometimes chilly façade she has a strong belief in improving social mobility. She will point to the poor life chances of black people and the white working classes and say she wants a society that works for everyone.

“Rich and poor, north and south, urban and rural, young and old, male and female, black and white, sick and healthy, public sector, private sector, those with skills and those without,” she will say.

That fairness will include measures to ensure that everyone can share in the country’s wealth in a deliberate “break with the past” for the party.

Mrs May’s plans include moves to make big business more accountable by having both consumers and workers represented on company boards. The move will also affect UK-registered companies listed abroad as well as those on the main FTSE market.

Non-executive directors, who are meant to hold executives to account, are “drawn from the same, narrow social and professional circles as the executive team”, she will say.

She is also expected to announce that annual shareholder votes on corporate pay should be binding rather than advisory. The proposal follows a wave of shareholder protests against high pay this year at companies including BP, Anglo American and Shire.

The May proposals would go further than the changes introduced by Vince Cable, former Lib Dem business secretary, who forced companies to hold legally binding votes on future pay policies every three years — on top of the usual non-binding vote on retrospective pay packages.

IT'S HAPPENING

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36761370


If they say he can't they'll have a riot on their hands, surely?

If the MPs depose Corbyn despite his overwhelming victory with members I will never ever ever vote Labour again and that's a promise. I'd rather the tories.

Everyone, write to/ email/ whatever your local Labour MP. Get a local petition if you can. Inform them that they will never get a vote again if they support Eagle in this. Corbyn won by democratic contest, and to rule him out of this race would be to openly declare that the PLP dictates the party, not its membership

Your new prime minister, Theresa "Snoopers Charter" May.

Welp, May's taking it uncontested it looks like.

If Corbyn survives this coup, they're handing him the next GE.

Brit/pol/ is exploding, fucking kek

This is good though.

Theresa will enact the snoopers charter and btfo you privacy fags.

Tired of people being able to communicate with their drug dealers

because I have to be the better man.

They won fair and square. Just the same way they would have had to respect our win if remain won.

If I was to support overturning a democratic result. I'm not better than hitler,

Way to be anti democratic. Hypocrite.


Contesting leadership is allowed and she still has to win by a ballot. Corbyn won't be forced out except by vote.

Immature kid. If she wins she win. And it was the will of the membership

I'm somewhat confused by UK politics.

Is there some simple and short rundown of the current situation?

Will UK invade France or will UK split into 3-4 independent pieces? Is it Fascist, Communist or NeoLiberal revolution that is currently in progress or will happen soon?

Theresa May will false flag attack the Falklands to shore up her leadership and institute a no rights allowed Thatcherite dictatorship

Scotland and London will stop the withdrawal from the EU. The mid-term result (15 to 20 years) will be the UK in the Eurozone without any opt-out, in a Europe including Bosnia, Serbia, Turkey, Iceland, maybe Norway.

Has Zizek spoken on Brexit at all?

Theresa May is comfirmed as the new PM.

How? Doesn't hey need to go to an election first?

No, the Tories have a majority of seats so they can appoint the PM.

So … UK goes full police state and does not leave EU?

Isn't the UK already a full police state?

Yes, i don't know if he has since the actual vote though.

theguardian.com/books/2016/jun/04/dear-britain-letters-from-europe-referendum

No. We should definitely have an early general election regardless, but it's very unlikely to happen.

Since we don't actually elect a PM, but instead vote for MPs who select a PM, when a PM steps down/dies there's no real duty to hold a new election. However, the circumstances in this case, since the new PM will be in charge of Brexit mean we most definitely should be holding another election.

But hey, what're you gonna do.

twitter.com/Politicalpolls_/status/752104844115279872

ABSOLUTELY  NO  CHANCE

...

...

feelsgoodman

Billy Bragg is definitely based. We need more of him in out lives.
youtube.com/watch?v=vbddqXib814

post screencap pls, don't have twatter.

...

Corbyn apparently will need 51 MPs

Any Holla Forums volunteers for the job?

Source? I can't believe they would do that, what a suicide note as a party, their membership are going to kick offfff.

twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/752556850319679488

Might explain why Eagle relaunched her leadership bid after talks fell through.

here, published shortly after the result

europe.newsweek.com/brexit-eu-referendum-left-wing-politics-europe-zizek-474322

That is NOT a source or proof. The NEC tomorrow is meeting at 2PM and will decide on this. I strongly expect it to rule in Corbyn's favour.

I actually do believe that throwing Jez off the ballot would result in a major split happening. Because I and many others can't see ourselves voting for Labour under Eagle/Blairite leadership. These fuckers couldn't even coup Corbyn properly, instead they've been FUCKING AROUND for weeks now. You really have to hand it to the Tories who have bombed Eagle's leadership bid today with the May win. Fucking Sad. Also, Eagles leadership logo reminds me of some Alan Partridge-style 90s shit with the pseudo handwriting over a flag. All in pink too. It's just so bad it's crass.

Also:
- Angela Eagle

Just fuck off already. My brain is starting to bleed from all that muh-woman shit. If Corbyn was a woman and Eagle a man I'd still vote for Corbyn.

From what I've seen of the actual documents regarding this issue, everything referring to needing 51 MPs or whatever uses language explicitly referring in some way or other to "challenging candidates." Legal documents are pretty concrete this way. There was some law expert on the news earlier who was actually flabbergasted that this is even being dragged out. This is only "legal advice" and it will be wrong.

Why I premised it with 'apparently'.


Lel yeah something Kinnock entirely skipped over when he slammed the youth joining Labour for not following 'democratic process' on Andrew Marr.

It's entirely possible that the discretionary legal counsel is just a save face for the inevitable Eaglite split.

When will the NEC announce then, do we reckon? How long after 2pm?

I think you're right, they have to let him on, they'd be mad not to - people would be so enraged.

How the fuck is it antidemocratic to petition your MP, and to make them aware that keeping their job rests on them properly representing their constituents?

What do you think democracy is?

and how are you going to have a revolution if all your comms are tapped?

If they read enough theory they'll gain magic powers and be able to start the revolution with a single thought. Anything less is filthy reformism.

Looks like that fellow's snooping her charter

no she's commited to leaving. it's good for her because we lost the eu's privacy protections


in a hyperbolic sense, sure. but it can always get worse. we're deciding right now whether to force isps to store web connection logs

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36770627

TODAY'S THE DAY


We should know by tonight, comrades.

Welcome to 1983.

If the NEC don't put Corbyn on the ballot then it's over for the Labour party. I don't see how the public could keep any sort of faith in the party if that happens.

and she was part of a group
that made a secret security pact with saudi arabia
and hid it from voters

As I'm British, and my country is apparently being flooded by thousands of migrants a week, I'm somewhat confused. Where are these people? Why are 20 Somalian youths not robbing my house and raping my mother, as you seem to think is the outcome?

As for

The same could be applied to several million British citizens (which you could count yourself among) and that doesn't bother you in the slightest. It's only the foreigners from outside the EU that are the problem - so lets leave the EU!


Under the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act of 2010, this one will run through until May 2020, no ifs, no buts. I think the only way to trigger an early election is for the sitting PM to request a dissolution-election from the Queen, or for the PM to lose a confidence motion.

It could quite conceivably happen if the Tories wanted it. But I very much doubt that'll happen now that May's taking control.

Mate they'd be entirely in their rights to do so. When Benn challenged Kinnock in 1988, Kinnock (the incumbent) had the get the required nominations to stand – he didn't stand automatically. The same will happen with Corbyn.

Just face it guys, Corbyn's reign of uselessness and ineptitude is over. Personally, I'd love for there to be a snap election wherein Eagle and the others rally behind Corbyn. It would obviously yield a Tory landslide, and hopefully it'd put the whole Labour kerfuffle to rest.

Unseating Corbyn will make a bit more noise from the party's membership than Benn's failure.

What is Holla Forums's opinion on the Lexit campaign?

As a remainer i saw this campaign of a rel, honorable attempt at pointing out why the EU is shit, however there werent enough prominent voices in the campaign. Even George Galloway devolved into the nationalist rhetoric about immigration, which is where i loose patience with Lexit, as they didnt do anything to stop nationalism dominating the debate. For them to then celebrate alongside Ukippers and the right wing about the result shows that they were comfortable with using rheotric for their ideal result. I always ask them whether they feel truly comfortable with the result, in that they won but not on their terms, and whether they concede the fallout by rising nationalism and racism is somewhat their responsibility.

I see your point; however, I also read that both Johnson and Farage, who would supposedly ride the wave of the Leave vote, are having troubles because of it. Also, from conversations with friends living in the UK, I get that a lot of people didn't vote leave in a chauvinist fashion, but more of a anti-establishment or a "solidarity-with-Greece" one. So, I'm not so sure this is such an absolute domination of the right wing than a united front can't overcome.

Thats a thing i dont understand, everyone says "the public has delived a message to the establishment/status quo that they are tired of being mucked about" so wait? Gove, Jonson and Farage are anti-establishment figures now? this wasnt message from the people it was a simple in/out vote which immigration was the main issue under debate, everything else was firmly not for discussion as the facts would only lie with one side.

It was pretty shit.

The plan was to ride the wave of a narrow loss, being the plucky upstart. Instead they pushed a bit too hard, won, and had fuck all idea what to do next.

Nobody said that, though. Johnson and Farage tried to take advantage of the leave vote (and are not that good at it), but the leave voters in total are far more than Johnson and Farage supporters. Also Gove is a joke.

Also, the immigration issue was a false dichotomy. It's not like the EU treats immigrants and refugees any better than the people who supposedly lead the leave vote. Look at the EU's border policy, it's Kafkaesque bullshit.


Elaborate, I am genuinely interested.


It was more of an inability of the left to control the Leave vote towards an anti-capitalist, anti-establishment direction.
Of course the right wing "euroskeptics" have no idea what to do now and are in crisis, because the class they represent is not euroskeptic. The real question is, can the left take advantage of this or will it try to "save capitalism from itself", like in Greece?

Yeah there was one poll (I think it was one of major ones) that showed that most Leave voters' primary reason was sovereignty with immigration coming second.

Secret ballot at NEC vote. What do you think will happen if they keep out Corbyn from the leadership election?

(My guess is a settlement where ODonnell stays Shadow Chancellor)

The Lexit campaign was and coalition of the Communist Party, Socialist Workers Party and the leadership of the RMT. This is not the basis of any sort of mass campaign, when those involved would struggle to mobilise 10,000 people in total. All it could ever do is perform as a figleaf for the main Leave campaign.

In theoretical terms, the position was classic tankie anti-globalisation. A kind of 'Socialism in One Country' again, that doesn't really recognise why that went wrong in the first place.

I'll see if I can dig out some of the more interesting stuff that got written about it.

...

...

"Sovereignty", in the context of a contradictory consciousness, can be a distorted version of "I don't want people I didn't vote for ruling over me". Whether this takes a chauvinist or an internationalist turn depends on what the left has to offer against the traditional notion of "sovereignty".

So, the fact that it didn't mobilize enough people means it was wrong?

So siding with the EU, which is undemocratic, racist and warlike, on the utopian premise that it can ever be reformed is a better option, because it mobilizes a lot of people, I guess.

Fucking hell, the media is so disgusting today. I know I shouldn't be surprised but god damn it.

From here Lexit looked pretty much non-existent. A Brexit by the left was largely regarded as something that would split Scotland off from the UK, and make England and Wales Tory strongholds.

They are. However, both of them have took the sensible decision of stepping aside and letting other people step up and take the responsibility for all this catastrophe. Hell, the fact that we have a Remainer as PM now means that both of them can turn up later and say "Well of course this turned out badly, brexit wasn't negotiated by someone who truly cares about British sovereignty".


My problem with it is that it wasn't going to work. If we'd been looking at a referendum for leaving the EU under, say, a Corbyn-led government, sure, campaigning to leave for leftist reasons would make sense. But since the Tories are in charge, this was always going to be a case of leaving the EU for right-wing reasons, and the result was going to be a victory for the right.

NEC RULES CORBYN MUST BE ON THE BALLOT

theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/12/jeremy-corbyn-must-be-on-labour-leadership-ballot-paper-party-rules-nec

finally some good news at least

Blairites on suicide watch.

Is it too late to register to vote in the leadership contest? I've been depressed and laying in bed not wanting to do anything for weeks, but, I know if Corbyn loses I'll hate myself.

I'm worried that the full assault by the media might shift the voters against him

You should still be able to register.


They better be on their best behaviour.

*JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP*

Well that's that. Tory rule until 2025. Lovely.

...

lol eat shit blairite

The last thing the Labour party needs is another leader with no principles, no plan, and even less personality. Corbyn is the first real opposition to Tory rule we've had in more than a decade.

Eagle is shit. I've got nothing against Corbyn, I wish him the best. I'm merely pointing out that he'll get eviscerated. That's all.

I'm a member of a polling organisation and we have been polling Labour party members on who they will vote for.

Corbyn is going to defeat the other candidates by a landslide unless something massive happens.

The poll will be released in the next few days.

What about General Election polls? By what margin are the Conservatives beating Labour?

This doesn't make sense. If it is a catastrophe, how are they riding the wave? If they are successful leaders, why are they stepping down? A successful leader does not step down, he gains momentum and pushes forward, that's not even communist ideology, it's Art of War 101. Farage and Johnson didn't gain momentum by stepping down, they shot their own foot.

That's like saying you could push for a referendum to establish workers' councils and just skip all the trouble of revolutionary agitprop/organizing/etc. Referendums don't work that way, politics don't work that way. The left needs to utilize divisions between the ruling class whenever they happen and support the side that will cause the most instability for the ruling class and the most opportunities for the working class, while retaining their own program and action.

You know what would end in a leave vote and a Corbyn-led government afterwards? Corbyn actually supporting Brexit.

they are not, which is why Cameron stepped down both from Tory leadership and PM

why dont blairites just discard themselves into the wastebin of history already

Blairites dun goofed now. Corbyn's gonna smash it. When will the ballot open, do we have any idea? Got to be before the LP national conference in September right?

If it can't mobilize any people then it has no control over what shape Brexit takes, which means it's dominated by the hard right, as opposed to the neo-liberals who dominated Remain.

Join Unite Community, you'll be able to vote as an affiliate.

Blairites get the fuck off my board.

But that's wrong. A good chunk of Labour voters voted leave.

And yet the entire process will be controlled by the conservatives.

>twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/752959808505049088

Allegedly in the meeting today they changed the rules so only those that joined before Jan 2016 and paid £25 will get to vote.

Yeah, but you can still vote if you join a Trade Union (join Unite Community if you're a NEET, it's cheap as fuck).

Uh oh

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36778135

And on this day our jimmies will be rustled, the Labour party will lose all legitimacy, and we will have to suffer decades more Tory/UKIP rule…

Thanks Blairites

What a bunch of cheeky twats.


Would this definitely work if we joined today? How does voting (via a union) actually work?

I'm really tempted to meme you up for your rampant defeatism.

They will control everything if we let them.

They have a majority in the commons. The only ways we could get an election are either if they voluntarily have one, or if there's a fucking revolution. I'm not getting my hopes up for either of those, although I'm happy to participate in the latter.

Now that Bernie's hollowed out body is being used as a puppet by the DNC, I declare Corbyn the new slick entryist.

There's a third option. You need to look at what happened in Greece. The right-wing government there couldn't handle the pressure and forced itself into a premature election they knew they would lose, using parliamentary tricks to make it seem like they didn't outright resign.

It won't be a revolution, but it will cause massive instability for the ruling class, but at the same time a challenge for the left.

corbyn is certainly having better luck than bernie, it helps that his opponents are vile blairites who crave endless war and corporate devotion

so bernie?

POST RARE CORBYNS

You opt into Labour affiliate when you join AFAIK. Never done it myself (been a party member for years).

Lol not a Blairite. Just not deluded enough to think Corbyn could win a general election (he's currently 8 point behind the Conservatives for fucking Christ's sake). Hand it over to McDonnell or Lewis and maybe you've got a chance but with Corbyn at the helm… Well, you can wank yourself off to muh socialist purity whilst the Tories have 400+ seats.

This wouldn't be an issue if you were already members of an affiliated trade union (there aren't many left that aren't), I hope I'm not the only Brit poster here who works for a living and shows actual solidarity with his fellow proles through union membership.

You don't have to join Labour as an affiliate trade union member to vote on the party leadership, I voted for Corbyn before I became a Labour Party member. What you're referring to, is a discount on Labour Party membership as affiliated trade unions already donate £3 out of your monthly union dues to the party if you're in full time work. At the moment I pay £1.96 monthly for my Labour Party membership.

Why bother with the additional membership fees if you can already vote on the leadership? Well you can take part in local Labour Party politics that do trickle back up to the national level, albeit years away (the main impact you have is in backing local councillors who may go on to become MPs, we have one former MP, a real socialist from the 70s and our current guy groomed against the current Tory MP is certainly more "pragmatic" to put it in his words).

I myself ran for councillor and got beat by a margin of 5% (that Tory didn't even have a majority), I'm considering running for county councillor next year but I want to see how this whole Blairite fiasco pans out before making any commitments.

Also I must admit, I would have cancelled my membership instantly without hesitation and started pamphleting socialist party material using the local copy shop had Corbyn not made the ballot.

I'm genuinely interested when people start talking shit like this.

Do you actually think the PLP would allow another candidate to stand in Corbyn's place with his politics? What have you been doing for the past year?

As much as I hate to admit it, most white blue collar workers hate Corbyn but most of them are ignorant Sun readers too (from my experience working between different factories).

I always overhear them calling Corbyn an out of touch liberal toff who "isn't one of them", and in the same breath say that whilst they're happy May is primeminister, they would have preferred Johnson.

It doesn't matter who the Labour leader is s as long as they remain misinformed.

Depends what part of the country tbh.

I'm going by how people in Oxfordshire and Swindon seem to feel.

Even a small chunk of our own membership feels like we've been trolled by the £3 voters.

...

...

I think pro-Corbyn propaganda aimed at this trenche of the working class is vital.

The more disaffected youth see through the tabloid bullshit, but older workers or those who still have some trust in the establishment, buy these media smears.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36780715

Oh ffs Owen Smith is standing.

Blairite scum threatening Momentum members in Brighton, Momentum-backed candidates sweep annual election in Brighton Labour

morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d9b4-Labour-right-thugs-threaten-own-side#.V4TvcKLAGUn


S L I C K

KEK

This is pretty good.

I was at that AGM comrades, huge success for democracy. Pretty funny that they just did not plan for that level of turn out at all: people wanting to participate in their democratic processes? Never!

It does depend on this as much as anything, I'm from Merseyside, its a Labour stronghold and people here don't read the sun so they've cut themselves off from a good chunk of the right wing bullshit. Popular opinion seems to be behind Corbyn, albeit tempered by seeing him as being too soft on the Tories and Blairites.

And for good reason too, the only guy at my work place who has a passionate distaste for the Sun was a guy who was a kid (and Liverpool fan) at the actual Hillsborough disaster, though even he spouts some right wing nonsense from time to time like "why should we be paying for Wale's free prescriptions?"

A shame it takes something personal for people to distance themselves from a propaganda paper.

To be fair the Morning Star supported Stalin and didn't apologise for it as far as I'm aware (though that publication is a democratically run cooperative, that is actually putting out news worth reading especially in a class conscious manner) and people don't care that the Daily Mail supported fascism in Europe, they literally praised Hitler, Mussolini, Franco (even post WW2 they praised him) and even Salazar after WW2. They initially supported the Nazi movement in Britain before WW2 began, yet despite all of this unsavoury history, they are one of the biggest click bait churners in the world next to the Cayman Islands based Guardian.

A less useless candidate endorsed by Corbyn would get the 51 nominations so yes. Corbyn alone is able to get 40 which is a decent achievement given the circumstances.


This is a good point. Throughout his life Corbyn has been on the side of the workers, he needs to leverage that. He and McDonnell released a plan the other week to look at reducing immigration and a few months ago McDonnell backed proportional representation. They need to broadcast these louder because they're popular as fuck I reckon.

I'm interested to know what this board wants to happen? So many of the ideas espoused sound ridiculously detached from reality. Deselect 170 MPs? Labour will become a minority party overnight. And that's predicated on the belief that all of those members are non-lefties when plenty of them are, they just think Corbyn is garbage and will consign the party to eternal irrelevance.

Replace them with MPs who will support Corbyn?

But what is your end game? It's definitely not a Labour majority by the looks of things because when half your party has gone off to the LibDems or even formed their own then Labour get fucked in half their seats and the Tories gobble up the leftovers.

People here can feel good about having a pure lefty party but when they hold barely seats whilst the Conservatives go full hardcore NHS-destroying thatcherite then that stuff is meaningless. That's the argument being made against Corbyn.

I think a reasonable aim would be to aim for coalition. A progressive alliance focused around Labour and the SNP, but with Greens and probably Lib Dems. Yes, it wouldn't be a pure left-wing Labour government, but it'd be a start.

On the other hand, replacing Corbyn with another centrist Blairite won't actually solve anything. They've proven themselves to be completely ineffectual, they lost the last two elections, and what people are crying out for isn't socially liberal, economically centre-right politics as usual. That's not what they're looking to UKIP for. That's not why they voted for Brexit. That's not why Scotland's lost to Labour and probably out of the UK altogether. And it shouldn't be what Labour is offering.

I mean, don't get me wrong, Corbyn is by no means perfect, and I'd love it if a more charismatic, more believable left-wing candidate could step into the breach. But the right of the party won't allow that. So we're stuck with Corbyn or a Labour party that doesn't mean anything.

This. A Labour government means next to nothing if it's a Blairite one

Deselection is the way forward, but it will be rather messy.

By which I mean, when people vote for MPs, they don't actually vote for parties (even though that's what they almost always do, lookup former Conservative MP Tony Baldry's sanitised wikipedia article, he certainly didn't get in on personal merit) they vote for the person. So let's say we deselect Angela Eagle right now, she will become an independent or non-aligned MP unless she joins another party willing to have her and she will represent her constituency till her term is up.

The way I see it is, people who vote for Labour will vote for Labour even if it means voting against the MP that "served" them for the past 20 years. That's how Labour turned to shit in the first place, any Blairite could count on people voting for them blindly because they were the red team and not the blue team.

The Labour Party receives the vast majority of its funding from the Trade Unions, they are surprisingly not as lobbied by business interests as other left wing parties in the world, though that may also be down to big business not having to pay as much to get what they want and the lenient trade unions guaranteeing payments looking to avoid provoking the media into accusations of political lobbying even though it's for the working people and not rich oligarchs. We still have that popular right wing meme of unions ruining the country and unions being greedy with their evil mobster union bosses even though the UK has no history of organised crime and unions conspiring together.

Anyway the point about the Labour Party's funding is that all of the unions who fund the party support Corbyn, and that these neoliberal rebels won't have any money if they form their own party.

(continued)

But again you have that assumption that anybody who Corbyn is a Blairite. In fact, I'm interested to know what exactly makes Corbyn a proper lefty. From what I've heard he wants to renationalise the railways. Is that all that distinguishes him?

Corbyn must therefore use this leverage to his advantage to reform the party for the better, all he risks from doing so is the ire of the right wing media who portray him as a modern day Stalin in waiting, even to crassly go as far as to suggest that he will gulag people should he ever seize power. However the party will actually realign itself and offer a genuine alternative (even if it's only a dem soc one) to this blue Tory vs red Tory bullshit we currently have (last Labour government introduced age tiered min wage but also gave us Iraq war, tuition loans, academies, initialised postal service privatisation on behalf of EU, decentralised NHS, increased private investment opportunities in NHS, lowered rail passenger standards on behalf of companies, privatised the Tote, tax credits which under 25s couldn't get and subsidised low wages with public money, implemented workfare, too many to list).

Should Corbyn forgive and forget after inevitably winning the leadership contest again (which reminds me I'm going to place some bets, I wish I did the last time, I thought bloody Burnham was going to win) in order to proclaim himself as some sort of moderate diplomat, he will be proclaimed by the media as weak and without the qualities of a leader needed to govern this country. And of course the Blairites will continue to undermine him anyway and provide the conservatives with a reserve of neoliberals that they can count on in supporting their shitty legislation. In this scenario, Corbyn will definitely lose the next election and he will resign, his left wing nudge will be completely undone as the current draconian Labour leadership contest rules will ensure that only the establishment candidates will be on the ballot this time around and McDonnell will definitely be snubbed, afterall remember Corbyn was supposed to be the joke candidate last time around to draw in left wing support and attention to the party and get behind Andy Burnham when he lost. They won't be taking risks this time around and once their establishment candidate takes power, I won't be surprised if they reformed the party even further to make it impossible for a Corbyn like event to happen again.

Nobody else in the last Labour leadership contest even mentioned renationalisation of the railways till people started paying attention to him, Andy Burnham even tried to steal his idea but it was too late to save him.

Anyway the following clips are a good watch as to why he's an improvement over the others:

(was against the Iraq War, back when Eagle voted for it)
youtube.com/watch?v=16BtpSCufU0

(has a long proven history of integrity, see this video from over 20 years ago, he takes his job more seriously than most MPs)
youtube.com/watch?v=PE79jlv4V-A

(debates for socialism)
youtube.com/watch?v=pZvAvNJL-gE

Which is all well and good in Labour safe seats but a ludicrous strategy in swing seats where Labour will essentially have zero chance of contest.


Hmm that's pretty fair reasoning. Could see it going tits up for him though (death of the party)

What do you mean by this? What would you prefer.


Thanks, will definitely check those links out.

Did B████'s mate throw the little red book at an opposing polititian?
Did B████ quote hoxha?
Is B████ mates with a lot of hardcore commies?

Bernie was never an entryist fam.

Last pic best pic

Labour is likely to lose the next election anyway, it will definitely lose the next election if the party is still perceived to be full of Blairites and establishment career politicians. What point is there in retaining Labour MPs if they vote for conservative policy anyway? To save face on the wikipedia article on the election that no one will remember in 20 years time?

If Corbyn had any real concern for the future of the people, he should initiate the rebirth so that the next class-conscious leader can campaign without obstruction and with unity. If anything it would increase his chances of winning, though I'll be honest, he will still probably lose.


The party is not fit for purpose as it is and needs to be put down for its own good, fuck the party. The party was supposed to be the political wing of the trade unions to begin with, not an all encompassing safe space for parlour liberals to use a platform to spout platitudes and exchange Dickensian guilt.

Again the trade unions fund the party from their working class members (like me, it's bullshit that my broke ass is paying towards campaign contributions for idiots like Eagle and Hillary Benn to begin with), so we'll end up making a new party hopefully if Labour go into oblivion.


As in pro welfare state, nationalisation of natural monopolies etc.

That's better than everything we've had since the last Labour government before Tony Blair, but that's hardly socialism, more like painkillers for a tumour.

Given our countries shitty political system and various social factors, access to firearms etc.

I would much prefer someone who instead of nationalising various industries, used tax payers money to set up cooperatives independent of the government instead (yes industrial cooperatives do actually exist even in the UK, including petrochemical ones, but usually because some rich guy died and then bequeathed the company), as any Blairite or Tory government will immediately sell off any national assets to their friends at a loss. I'd like to see some posh cunt in government send the troops to seize a privately owned enterprise, though I wouldn't be surprised if they decided that private property is supposed to be for rich people only.

Corbyn is proponent of cooperatives but I don't believe he regards them as important in the grand scheme of class struggle.

Here's a more entertaining and dramatic and recent overview from Vice as well:

youtube.com/watch?v=94ptAcbfKP0

Please watch despite it coming from bloody Vice of all places.

Sage because I keep bumping this thread with little OC or content worth posting.

Agreed. We're not Labour Party fan-boys, we don't want them to win just for the sake of winning; we want them to win in order to enact policy that enables socialism. The Blairites have to go if that is ever going to happen. Essentially, Labour has to take a step back if it wants to ever take any steps forward.

This is good - the anti-Corbyn vote is now split.

I'm pretty sure they use a more democratic voting system which doesn't let votes get split. Single Transferable Vote or something.

They use AV, but the reason I thought it was good is because it means they'll spend time arguing with each other rather than Corbyn

May's first speech sounded surprisingly liberal, almost Blairish. Does that mean we are observing a slight shift to the left throughout politics as a result of brexit?

I know, I was taken off guard by May's speech. I think May was further right a few years back, but I remember her supporting gay marriage, for instance, so perhaps some of Cameron's attempts to modernise the Tory party were successful. Or maybe not, and it's just a vacuous, cynical appeal to the middle from the Tories because they know their threat from the right (UKIP) is becoming increasingly obsolete and they want to win over centrists in a speech they knew was going to be widely received.

We'll have to wait and see, same goes for the 'shift to the left' thing. See what happens in and (more importantly) after the Labour election

she's got to move to the middle to appeal to all the normie remain voters who are scared of the fascist rhetoric we've been hearing lately. the right wing already like her for being anti immigration over the years

do you think this paints him in a good light?
i like him but this doesn't really do him any favours
they look like they need to get their shit together

reminds me of the ruler of the universe from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy who doesn't want to be in charge and that's why he's the perfect person for the job

She's going for the Le Pen approach (mixed economy, tough on migration).

theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/17/micheal-martin-says-ireland-could-see-reunification-referendum

IT NEVER STOPS

twitter.com/BBCNewsbeat/status/754647549970030592

ayy

Don't forget. If you can spare £25, you only have today and tomorrow to register as a supporter of comrade Corbyn.

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