Alright fuckers it's time to join forces

that's all you care about? Selling out your class for a few pennies? What happened to reappropriating to the means of production?

What I am offering is to a truce to deal with the bigger enemy, aka the elite. Then we can democratically offer solutions on how to reorganize society.

Read the article, then give me a serious opinion, otherwise fuck off.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But you side with the elites. Capitalists, globalist or nationals are elites.

This is quite concerning, it is like the rich elites want to create their own fascism.

The EU is anti-socialist, siding with the EU is completely the wrong move.
morningstaronline.co.uk/a-544b-Why-the-EU-has-anti-socialism-built-into-its-core

Yes, because the tories and UKIP will certainly help the working class. Those EU funds at least made poor areas somewhat decent.

so, what are you going to do?

Side with the elites? What a traitor.
Remain on the margins? Then when we smash them there won't be room for you either.

globalists are as much against nationalists as they are against trade unionists and the working class

read
the
article

so, what are you going to do?

Side with the elites? What a traitor.
Remain on the margins? Then when we smash them there won't be room for you either.

globalists are as much against nationalists as they are against trade unionists and the working class

read
the
article

You can't make this shit up.

As opposed to siding with the same people who supported austerity and petty nationalism? I get that the EU has become a neoliberal nightmare, but you can't ignore what its done for some formerly ignored areas

Fuck the fucking Tories that care about nothing but their globalist friends.

Cameron's background is big finance and tax evaders.

The UKIP voter is a whole different spectrum. He's just tired of being screwed by globalists and seeks protection within his own kind.

obviously not petit bourgeois reaction in the form of twisted polyp nationalism.

I'd rather have transnational capitalism than ethnonationalist "muh small producer" capitalism.

>>>Holla Forums

Ignore Marx-head, he's the biggest shitposter on this board. Even worse than the anarcha-fem.

Ok.

The UKIP voter thinks that leaving the EU will magically make the immigrants disappear and give the UK its empire back. Fuck off with your nationalism and stop ignoring what I said. A loss of EU funds will fuck over large parts of the country

...

Not vote like I've always been doing.

No, fuck both of you. The world you want is just a worse remodel of the world we have.

This isn't the margins. You're on the margins.

If they want to get rid of any kind of collectivism for good, they would have to violate a lot of rights they pride themselves on keeping.

But once, let's say hypothetically, fascists are in power, the rights of communists in practice, aren't so swell.

So how do we eliminate the elite?

How is it going to work out? For example on absentee property rights we will never reach a consensus.

Must the workers own the means of production?

...

I was commenting on your very vague, next to meaningless class analysis. I'm not about to side with my enemies to fight something as vague as "the elites".

Listen, fam, class is based on one's relation to the productive process. There's the proletariat, who do the work in exchange for a wage, and the bourgeoisie, who own the means of production (and as a result receive the product of their workers' labor) and manage capital. These are the two primary classes of the capitalist order.

But while you might regard the bourgeoisie as class enemies of the proletariat, they're not the true enemy. They're not some kind of malignant agent corrupting an otherwise harmonious natural order, it's the order itself, the logic of capital, that is corrupt. So our goal is not to overthrow some "elite" and restore the natural order, but to overthrow the global order of capitalism and replace it with socialism.

UK oversea territories are the biggest tax havens on earth.
Elect someone that single handendly revokes those priviledges and you can compensate 100x any loss of EU funding.

Cayman Islands, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Guernsey etc.

In the case they win, there will never ever be collectivism again.

For now, we must define the common goals. EG what I just mentioned to the UK kid about tax havens.
Hurt their hidden, tax free, wealth, expose their corruption, their shady deals.
We need a broad non-ideological electoral list that focuses on that.

After we smash the pigs we offer the people ways to reorganize society. You can offer your ways of abolishing the propery of the means of production, we'll offer our own focused on small medium enterprizes. Democratic vote will decide.

Actually the consensus we will never reach is about how to arrange people moving around on this earth.

My only beef with communism is that it rejects borders and basically welcomes brown rape hordes with open arms. I will never accept it and I will never swallow the "muh everyone is equal, tabula rasa bro, once we destroy all culture everyone will behave the same" pill.
Since neither side is willing to budge from their position on this, it's not possible to reconcile.

But I don't give a fuck about the economic system in principle, assuming it actually works. I'm not attached to crapitalism at all.

(different Holla Forumsack here tho)

Exactly, so why the fuck should we make friends with fascists if they work to deny us the ability to further our own work? You clearly aren't seeing the holes in your logic right now.

Which I am aware of perfectly.
Now, the Marxist terminology in the real world translates to the elite of the article, which owns 90% of the world's wealth and you can bet your ass that they own 100% of the means of production, against everyone else.

Now, given that we are both part of the everyone else, which in Marxist terms would be the proletariat, I'm offering you a chance to fight the bourgeoise, since they are opening declaring war against both of us.

I still invite you to read the article.

Of course, now that the EU is gone, the UK is free to clamp down on tax havens and finally start funding its poorer regions. Why do you think that neoliberal politicians will suddenly abolish tax havens if they're out of the EU?

You don't seem to understand that Capitalism ignores national barriers. Foreigners can be exploited through outsourcing even if you deny them entry to your country. Your nationalism does nothing to deter global capitalism.

The only way to fight Capitalist Globalism is with Socialist Globalism.

It has done much more bad than it has done good, I am also against joining forces with fascists but this news OP has brought is troubling.

However I will not work together with fascists or the horrid neo-liberals on the EU side, both are enemies of socialism and as such both should be opposed. I also find it pathetic that some people will simply support the EU monstrosity and thus support global capitalism just because fascists also dislike it, this position seems to be inexcusable to me and is more of a position befitting of weak-minded liberals.

For example? Not denying the EU is a mess, but its still helped a lot of areas of Britain more than the national government has. Some would argue that brexit allows the tories to repeal some of the EU worker protection laws

The UK out of the EU certainly screws the continental European elites constant use of UK's oversea territories to hide wealth.

And show me exactly where I said I want neoliberal trash in charge?
They are the servants of the globalist elite.
The center right and center left politicians are both neoliberals. Stick to Corbyn and defend him to death.

We'll discuss that later, if the globalists win you aren't getting any of that. One step at the time.

Which has nothing to do with the Left.

It has everything to do with the progressive wave though.
Read the article, the author goes on a full celebration of the modernity of the cosmopolitan Western world. Of exploitation of course.

Tumblrism isn't Left-Wing.

spooked

The british territories except for Gibraltar aren't even in the EU. The EU is more opposed to tax havens than the British. In any case, british capitalists would still use them and unless Corbyn becomes PM, which I doubt considering recent events, any government will be in their pocket.
And who do you want? UKIP? They're still capitalists and even worse, nationalist

Which is Liberalism, its basically a buzzowrd.

Do I get a 10/10 qt3.14 fash queen waifu as part of the deal?

UKIP itself is utter trash but it did some good out of sheer stupidity.
What I'm advocating is a platform that can attract both Corbyn and UKIP voters.

Indeed.

Yeah but Liberalism is capitalist and has nothing to do with socialist.

Except UKIP voters are still capitalists obsessed with petit-bourgeois. What could a UKIP voter and a Corbyn supporter have in common?

The New Left is essentially Liberal and has basically eradicated the old Socialist one.

And most of you guys have sold the interest of the working class in exchange of diversity, gay marriage and a few EU.

Nah. They range of plain racists to national-capitalists.

But they all have in common one thing with Corbyn voters, they are all lower class that has nothing to earn with globalisation as it's happening like this.
The point is finding stuff both can agree on. I already pointed out the tax havens shit.
Other elements can be opposition to the American led export of Liberal Democracy aka further exploitation of people.
Reform education in a way that the rich kid doesn't get a free ride in life. There's a lot we can work on.

Anyway, I'll be back later. Please read the article carefully and comment.

Neoliberal here. Don't listen to OP. Join us and together we can crush the fascists just like we did in WW2.

International capitalism is more progressive than national capitalism. Capitalism still has its work to do before you can try your socialism or whatever, so lets both join forces and finish off the nationalists first.

I've got to admit, you fuckers are persistent. The funny thing is that for all Holla Forums's failings as a board, it has nonetheless managed to grow in spite of the constant barrage of Holla Forums shitposting and false flags and slide attempts at every turn.

Your assumption is that central government wouldn't have been forced into doing so at some point.
There's also the small matter of a lot of those funds going into what are essentially scams. I've spent a lot of time on the dole and the number of "courses" I've been sent on which were basically cooked up to get money out of the European Social Fund for doing as little as possible is ridiculous.

You can sign me up OP, it's about time us prolefags lent each other a hand to gas the global elite, throw their banker mates into the ovens and round up the media establishment into labour camps.

Small producers tend to be even more exploitative than transnational corporations. At least with large businesses you can strike for better wages, small businesses make so little you're lucky to get paid half the time.
Hang the petite bourgeoisie.

fuck off liberals

Austerity was imposed by the British government, not the EU. The EU helped the country more than the tories

You are too stupid for communism.

...

Then you are the regressive left

The Anti-democratic tendencies of the elite are sickening. As usual, Chomsky was right.

Liberal scum, please go.

no

Fuck the white working class. White "worker" is an oxymoron.

not an argument

try harder, faggot

Racist.

...

10/10
You mad you got your ass handed to you in the userbase thread?

Pick one, OP.
Dude is just a cunt who preens himself on being a "moderate."

You mean the thread where you ranted about the whitey shoah and confused this board with Holla Forums?

Reminder

COMRADES!

WE HAVE BECOME A THREAT!

THERE IS STILL HOPE!

Indeed. The struggle continues.

FUCK YOU

I'll side with the elites before I'll side with the fascists.
Unlike you the elites don't care what color their proletariat are.

Reminder of what? That de Benoist was a moronic paleocon who exists to bridge the gap between Evola and Pat Buchanan? That all "muh immigrants" whiners are right wing whitstains (including, of course, the author of OP's article)?

I didn't need to be reminded of any of that, but thanks, I guess, whatever.

REMAIN FAGS GO AWAY

DIE LIBERAL SCUM

NOT AN ARGUMENT

...

I'll propose a treaty. Our meme power can unite against liberal cucks and dildos.

And when revolution comes, I'll cut you a sweet deal. You Fashfags will be second to go to the wall, after the liberals.

leftypol was always split on the EU subject.

I am pro EU but anti Eurozone.

The cosmopolitan elite are the "communitarians". Enslaving the masses is a necessary step forward.

How about, just run and let it all blow over?

These things do have a way of leading to some starvation, especially as protesters unravel as consumerist rioters rather than partisans.

Peaceful isn't an option as both sides use provocateurs to stage riots.

Most any attempt to break ideology has also its own militant front as a barrier for entry, often falling into a far spectrum ideology.

Also, the government at high alert will target "preppers" under anti-hoarding laws- as should any organization.

Your best bet is to just get ahead of the "white flight" while you still have some assets to liquidate, rather than try to fool yourself into still having a land or identity.

Or, enjoy turmoil, bedlam, and the elicit behaviour of a society as it unravels.

I'll side with niether.

You're just a tool for both.

Reminder that those who seek immigration are less likely to seek union jobs and depress wages.

Reminder that by leaving their home country they are denying their own peoples' chance to a fairer society by not fighting and/or striking for their own labour laws and rights which presumably is why they are immigrants in the first place.

They are only helping sustain capitalism by enabling weak labour laws left for foreign capitalists to exploit instead of having to do what Europeans had to for 200 years.

If you were in touch with the working class you'd know immigration is a pressing issue for these exact reasons.

Just as planned.
t. Bourgeois Pig

Wtf, is this a thing? That's bullshit.

Authoritarians don't care about you. Right or left wing, they want control. If you and your household or community can provide for your own needs, you've caused them trouble. Why do you think there are efforts in Burgerland to stop people living off the grid?

This is indeed a thing, it legally counts in the U.S. as hoarding resources, and there's laws in place to seize and redistribute them.

If a prepper slips up and let's it be known they have a supply, it's a moral obligation to take it from them, especially when snitches will just inform on them to "officials" during Martial Law.

ehow.com/facts_7640872_federal-antihoarding-law.html

You mean the Anglo Sphere- Canadians have it just as bad in some instances.

But, yes, with U.S. you have Imminent Domain land seizures.

There's also the E.P.A. harassment, and the various acts against people that won't pasteurize their milk & cheese- this is the veritable canary in the coal mine.

I am pro-EU as long as I get the money from the western Yurop

Siding with fascists is like siding with poop. You just diseases

Wait, do they go after people for not pasteurizing milk and cheese for sale to the public? If so, it's kind of bullshit but just part of food regulations. If they're going after people doing it for their own consumption, that's fucked.
Depends on the circumstances.

This thread gave me terminal autism

Yes, but people do go out of their way to purchase it.

foodrenegade.com/texas-forces-raw-milk-dairy-dump-700-gallons-of-milk/

E.P.A.

redoubtnews.com/blog/2016/05/13/montana-disabled-veteran-convicted-pond/

Canadian CFIA

collective-evolution.com/2014/06/07/cfia-destroys-life-of-innocent-shepherd-by-murdering-her-flock-of-rare-sheep-now-she-faces-up-to-12-years-in-jail/

8ch.net/pol/res/6514408.html#6514711

Little do they know is we agree [/spoiler]mostly[/spoiler] that liberal RIPsters were of course going to side with porky industries.

There's a difference between having an agreement on one issue and siding with them.

3/10 you're clearly not applying yourself and you need to start taking your meds this class more seriously

Jesus Christ.
Fuck the state.
This is why we need left-wing libertarianism.

You mean, Anarchocommunism, right?

I'm not really against small scale private property regulated by the community, so nod really.
AnComs would chop my dick off for claiming ownership over a hammer or an apple tree.

It's not even a new trend.

read a book. Ancoms don't give a shit over either of those. It's called personal property.

Are you stupid, spooked, or baiting?

PRIVATE PROPERTY =/= PERSONAL PROPERTY!

WE ARE NOT TAKING YOUR TOOTHBRUSH!

muh toothbrush

We need a "The commies are coming! Hide your toothbrushes" comic.

Oh god not the toothbrush.

...

...

...

Where's the line drawn?

I remember last time I was here one of you asshats told me I couldn't rent a room in a house I built myself and that the extra space would have to be reallocated to some hobo.

I remember that thread, and I see that you didn't understand what you were being told at all.
Your home, your things, etc. are all personal property. You don't have to give extra space to some hobo.

We've explained it to you several times, it's not our fault you're too stupid to get it.

Not him, but is what you're driving at that personal property is okay, but shouldn't be used for rentseking?

I don't think that was me. Some faggot literally told me renting out my property was the gommunist equivalent of a cardinal sin.

Technically isn't a hammer or an apple tree considered capital goods? You can use a hammer to make goods that you can sell. You can sell apples.

A home can be used as a small means of production with the right equipment. That doesn't make it one unless explicitly being used for that function.

Are you employing other people to use the hammer or pick the apples? If not, it's personal property.

Yeah user it's pretty shitty to be a parasite

Personal property can't be rented…can't you see the semantics of it?

No, not really, but I'm black, so bear with me.

I build the house on my land. It's a large house, so I rent out a room to some dude who's passing through in exchange for money or labor or fellatio or some other mutually agreed on price.

1. What is wrong with this?

2. Can you see why your position might possibly make normal working people dislike you?

This is confusing as fuck. How do I communism with my house and my hammers and not get gulaged?

Do I just never make or do anything with them?

What if I'm the town carpenter? Won't people be angry when I stop work to avoid the rape cages?

Are you hiring people to use the hammer?
No?
It's not a means of production

Did you build the house all by yourself?
No?
Then the capital gained from the house should be split among those who helped build it proportional to amount of work put in. Of course, since social trust is higher under this society, it's likely the people who helped might just say "nah, thanks man I'm good".

Ayo hol up nigga.

I'm not keeping slaves. Presumably I'm paying them a fair price for their labor. When the job is done its done.

Are they entitled to just show up and use my house because I paid them to help me install some drywall years ago?

There. That's the issue.

You're "paying" them for their "labor". Someone else can explain in more detail though, I have to go get "paid" for my "labor" right now.

Yes. Explain why the contract is never ending. How, in a communist society, do I get you to help me build something and then fuck off without being permanently tied to you by the thing we created.

That makes no fucking sense to me.

Your thinking about this through a capitalist eyes. You need to stop doing that.

In a capitalist society, people accept wage slavery not because they want to, but because it they starve. This applies to all over the world, not just socdem countries where they export their misery to the rest of the world so they can have low wealth inequality.

The capitalist makes many off exploiting labor. it's said on average a prole produces 65% more than they earn in a wage for a company. The idea is to eliminate the capitalist class and give them their full compensation.

Now this all depends on the type of socialism but for example: if it were market socialism for instance, this would be fine as they would've been contracted out through a company and given their full compensation for helping build your house.

In a more communal society(which is the main goal for many leftist) your house would've been built for "free" on the assumption you will contribute as a worker to the communities needs( not in a wage slavery way, but in the sense that you will help out since others are dependent on your help to live happily - and vice versa, this offers a lot more freedom to the worker in how he wants to accomplish his work and gives him time to pursue his life goals as he is not as the mercy of an employer who demands he strictly due X in order to bring in profit for the shareholders).

So they helped you build your house with the expectation you will mutually help them thrive as well, but also with the expectation that any capital you gain off the house you will share will them as well.

Apologize for all the grammatical errors in there

Stuff like this is where you lose me. How does this offer me more freedom if I'm forced to live as part of a commune that I basically owe everything to.

Why can't I just negotiate with other folk, who you're assuming are all exploited slave-hobos for some reason, without being permanently tied into this wider system?

You're not forced to be a part of it. You can leave any time you want, become self sufficient and trade with other communes with the resources you procure. If people want to do something for a temporary contract they are free to do that, nothing is stopping an employer/employee relationship from happening if it's mutual.

How would you be more free? Well one, you wouldn't be running into a situation where you want to go out and spend time with your family or pursue one of your other goals and have you employer tell you "no, without you we can't X for sales!"

That's one example, there are many more and I suggest you read some Marxist or Anarchist books to get a better grasp than I could really offer you. If you want, look up Marx's different types of work alienation. Think about how these apply to your life and people you know. If you truly don't notice any parallels, maybe this isn't for you.

You are in no way "tied" to this system. You can leave when you want. You and other people can branch off and start you own commune with your own system. As I said in Market socialism, you would be free to do exactly as you want to without being beholden to the shareholders.

Also I'd like you to take a look around the word at the effects of Global capitalism. how capitalism functioned in our society BEFORE we had the ability to export our misery elsewhere and then tell me if you think this is really the best system we can muster up.

If I can leave when I want then how is this in any way different from modern America.

No one is stopping you from getting together, buying land and living this way.

Also the bit about my employer no longer making any demands on my time is odd.

Am I just doing pointless busywork in this new regime? If not and people do actually rely on me, how can you be certain my job will never conflict with my leisure/family time?

Another example of alienation I feel is the way capitalism turns would be brothers into enemies. Competing in the work place for X position to get exploited for X less. Not to mention all the nepotism that goes on in a workplace.

I don't think you're getting this. Yes, co-ops do function in America and there have been quite successful ones. This is more evidence of socialism working rather than capitalism being a good home for it. In a co-op you are still subject to capitalist produced goods and benefiting off the exploitation of others. Eliminating capitalism is ultimately a global movement, to secure the happiness and individuality of every persons.

Not at all, are you purposefully not reading what I'm saying? In this society, you have a high social trust. If there is something you want to pursue for X amount of time and you have contributed to everyone else, it is assumed that since people see you contributing those who don't have that time conflict will offer to help you. If you see no benefits to cooperating with each other in order to sustain a happy life for everyone in the commune then you might be better off with Ancap. The only difference is here, instead of working for an employer you are beholden to who cares more about profit than your well being, your working together with a commune, who care more about your well being than potential profit.

Once again, in market socialism you could do exactly as you want. There is literally no reason for the shareholders to be there other than to be parasites.

If you aren't going to read or google any of the stuff I told you to I don't see how we can have a conversation about this.

Okay I see two potential problems with this.

The first is this. How are you achieving high social trust? Multiculturalism, one of the major pillars of the left, is a massive contributor to alienation and low social trust.

Secondly, how do you ensure everyone is gainfully employed while avoiding free riders? Your system seems to function at least in part on the honor system.

I take it you are a Holla Forumsyp. Multiculturalism isn't what causes lack of social trust, that's capitalism. You can mistakenly attribute it to an ethnicity other than yourself but that's false. "Multiculturalism" as a concept was pushed by liberals as an excuse to bring in cheap labor through immigration - all goes back to capitalism huh! This mixed with the constant politicization of race alienates the masses and causes division and they turn their head away from capitalism and scapegoat X group. Fear of the other, and it looks like it worked on you.

The fact that you think "multiculturalism" is a pillar of the left just because we aren't pushing a racially homogenized state shows how little you know about leftism.

If you mean that people will be rewarded for doing more work, then yes this is true. People who sit on their ass and do nothing for days on end willfully, will just like in a capitalism not be able to provide for themselves. The only difference is we've eliminated the parasitic upperclass. which leads to an actual meritocracy. I can't understand why you're questioning us about unemployment in a socialist society when it is an integral part of capitalism.

Jesus Christ user. Take a damn shower, go outside, literally meet someone with more melanin than you and unspook yourself.

I mean nigga for real lets keep this civil. Read Putnam's work. Multiculturalism drastically reduces social trust.

That's exactly what you'd expect it to do, given that you're basically trying to cram a million different groups with their own disparate traits, values and customs into the same space.

Now when you say you've gotten rid of the upper class do you just mean from an economic standpoint or will there actually be no power hierarchy? In either case, how do you prevent a new one from emerging?

user just wanted to say thanks for your efforts, hanging in there with us, bearing all the "re-education" and occasional minor insults. You are appreciated.

Whatever ills socialism may have had, there's one thing socialist countries and experiments like Catalonia proved: once everyone is on the same economic level, violent crime and ethnic tensions absolutely plummet. Materialism, nigga. Material conditions trump over spooks like race, nationality etc. every time. So while it is possible that multiculturalism is crap, it's only so within a capitalist frame.

I've seen Putnams work. That's why I mentioned the politicization of race as a contributor. There are counter examples of people(not in America mind you, which is the only place putnam had access to research wise) with cities of all different kinds of people living together with their different values all in check. Something as complex as social interaction can be simplified into something like "da brown ppl are causing da problemz" as much as Holla Forums wants it to be.

However, one thing we strive to is to eliminate religion. As it imposes largely arbitrary values on people that can get in the way of individualism and make people feel the need to be involved in other peoples lives because of "muh eternal damnation"

Things are done by a direct democracy where everyone in the town can participate. If people in a buisness want to vote someone into a leadership position they can. If they are shitty they can vote them out. They can't accumulate capital to take advantage of people so how do you expect them to reemerge when any potential power they could have over the many is at the mercy of the many as well?

When people are all on a similar level economically, tensions go way down. If you expect a capitalist country like the U.S. with( and I'm not trying to be idpol here, just stating the past effects the present in SOME way) and a history of violent racial tension to have all of that disappear without dealing with other factors that cause social alienation, you're not being honest with yourself m8

can't be simplified*

Okay, but you can't argue that Catalonia is particularly diverse. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they been arguing for autonomy for decades on the basis that they have a distinct culture, language and their own goals and needs?

We're talking about revolutionary catalonia. Not post Spanish Civil war. That's why he called it an "experiment."

Okay but what do you mean by politicization? We could argue all day about whether race is meaningfully biologically real and get nowhere, so what about practical concerns like language barrier? What if the two cultures just value different things or have traditions that the other finds abhorrent?

There's also the fact that people do just have a gut negative hindbrain reaction to people of significantly different appearance. That's why you get all those retarded shitlib articles about how your baby was born with white priblege because you're white and it shies away from photos of Australian aborigines.

What said, also yeah it never was particularly diverse, but Orwell mentions how little crime it had in its revolutionary period.

But that was my point. I'm much less skeptical of socialism working as you're suggesting in a homogeneous or near-homogeneous society.

Well one, they don't have to live together. They can leave if they want. Learning a language isn't impossible. I'm not "for" multiculturalism I just don't care if people are whatever color they are in a society that works together. If they're against someone doing something that doesn't affect them in anyway they are anti-individualistic and don't belong in this society.

No that's liberals politicizing race. Look at the BLM movement. Look at third wave feminism. This thread is about how we abhor identity politics. The whole point of what you mentioned is to divide people so they don't work against capitalism.

Pre-immigrant era had a lot of social alienation to. People viewed lower class as "lesser specimens" or whatever to. The concept of a unified white "race" is barely 100 years old. There was enough tension in these places that revolutions rose up all over the world, all because of class. Race is just another way to divide people so they don't focus on class.

Okay so they're allowed to self-segregate, have borders and restrict movement into their spaces by other groups?

The societies that "work" and are cohesive are going to be the homogeneous ones. The others will devolve into the sort of racial spoils chess game we currently have in the US.

I don't think I articulated my point well. Babies do have that reaction. Liberals just can't grasp the obvious cause. As for identity politics, its just a natural product of having different ethnic/racial groups within the same polity.

I never said they were the only cause. I'm also not referring to white people as a totally monolithic group. You would probably still have some tensions between French and Brits tossed together, albeit to a much lesser degree.

Sure, there's no state stopping them from doing such and running it however they want. I personally think that's dumb.

Babies shy away from a lot of things. I don't think what a baby finds scary is a good way to gauge how a society should function.

Sorry, I know plenty of people who do not function like that. I am one of them. I have friends I love from different backgrounds besides my own. No, identity politics are not natural. They all focus on how they were economically oppressed at one point. This all goes back to Capitalism.

Go out and make friends with a brown person or a jew and despook yourself. I don't have much I can say other than I just fundamentally disagree with you.

In all seriousness, I deal with people from wildly different backgrounds on a day to day basis for work. My neighborhood is a soul crushing urban hellhole and the only satisfying social interaction I get anymore is long distance or occasional with friends back home hundreds of miles away. This despite being on amicable terms with most of my co-workers. I don't march in in the morning and greet them with a roman salute.

I've also seen the racial spoils game play out first hand between blacks and Orthodox Jews, blacks and Puerto Ricans, etc. When whitey isn't involved, no one brings up past "oppression" it's just naked tribalism. Giving patronage jobs in city government only to your group, taking over a school board for the express purpose of defunding it to pay into the yeshivas your kids actually attend.

I've seen it at all and its fucking gay.

Anyway I appreciate the discussion, even if we'll probably never see eye to eye.

Well communism met more or less the same fate both in homogenous and multinational countries, minus Cuba and North Korea. If you rank them by success while they still were socialist, I don't think you'll see any correlation with being multinational or homogeneous. For example, compare the two arguably most prosperous commie countries, Yugoslavia and East Germany; they were polar opposites as far as nationalities go.

You fucking reformist retard.

Nah, you'd rather just stick with the global bourgeois. You make me fucking sick.

THIS

Indeed. More disgusting is the response of some apparent 'leftists' ITT. Brexit has brought out a whole new side to you people.

Oh look, Blairite opportunist scum trying to slip their clammy hands back around the neck of the party they violated unopposed for two decades, thanks to a slimy protective film of PC scaremongering.

Get raped.

Couldn't be more wrong lad. Blair is the reason I've never voted Labour. It's the 'Blairites' and their ilk who really want to ignore the will of the filthy plebs over Europe. And quite a few posters here.