Kek, this communist made a java program for a planned economy as a school project

Copyright is government fiat to begin with. True freedom would be no copyright law. (whether used for copyleft or not)

If by freedom you mean in the sense of ultimate freedom the freedom that that allows you to take away the freedom of others then yes the BSD and MIT have more freedom.

But is it fair if you can take the freedom of others ?
Does having the freedom to take freedom truly freedom ?
The GPL has this superiority/neutrality that no license has.
It doesn't leave anyone behind.

first, it's not true, look at how it's done in Python, and it's closer to true OO than Java, which is shit.
second, OOP is shit anyway.

Python's way is a better implementation of the same principle, and it can't be used in Java. There is no alternative in Java to getters and setters that's more OO-compliant, so if you want to properly orient all your objects in Java you'll have to write that boilerplate.

The AP was a mistake. Back when I was taking the US history course the textbook called the Ottomans "the heirs to Byzantine civilization" and only referred to the country the Netherlands as Holland.

Is it normal in java to have so many uses of new ?

...

Did you ever ask yourself why you would do it that way? All you say is cultist shit "It's the OO way" "It's OO compliant".

99% of the time the getters and setters do nothing. They make messy verbose code. It would take you less time to edit all the code that accesses the given field after turning it private from public than it would to type out all the getting and setting in the first place.
Moreover, and this is important, after you turn a field from public to private and make a getter/setter you SHOULD look at all the code that accesses that variable, because it was written under the assumption that getting and setting does nothing besides the obvious and that change might have made the code incorrect.

When was the last time you wrote a getter or setter that does something?

He's just lying to try to get the GPL adopted by more projects. He's clearly a fucking communist. Getting corporations to release their software under GNU licenses is his way of undermining capitalism.

Thanks for all the proof that you're not providing.
If the GPL was communism their would be some mandatory clause saying that you are forced to give it for free and you can't ask money or other services for it.
And it's not, with the GPL you limit corporate monopolies in a which in returns allows other companies to services people with computing.
Read about what RMS said about "stallins dream".
RMS doesn't want communism he wants democracy/freedom.

so what does this add? Because all I see is completely pointless bloat that makes your program look bigger without actually doing anything.

had that name from my last post, forgot to remove it.

wtf i love rms now

He means 'communism' in the typical burger definition, 'like the ussr where theres a dictatorship and the govt owns everything'.
Hes described himself as socialist and anarchist, and free software fits what any libertarian socialist might mean when they say 'communist'

unless, like RMS, they attribute the word 'communism' the cold war definition.

The GPL and Free Software is more akin to Classical Liberalism AKA what the Founding Fathers of the United States were.

If you mean 'socialism' or 'comunism' in the sense libertarian leftists do, it fits those much better most of the time. Maybe if you define 'socialism' as 'big gubmint that makes alot of rules and gives out money', it fits 'classic liberalism' better though.

Oh, I don't think setters and getters are good, I just think they're OO-compliant. I avoid Java as much as possible.

Everyone laugh at this sad Holla Forums retard! He thinks its practical and possible to implement actual Marxian stateless communism! He doesn't understand the concept of why everyone universally agrees Communism will never work!

Enjoy sticking to your early-20th century Utopian-movement era ideology while the rest of the world moves on faggot. Unless you can somehow convince people to work in exchange for wage credit in communes without a strong state involved. Retard

Nice one, Holla Forums, this the thread doesnt need a shitfight over your cuckoldry fetish of a political ideology, though. Though its a shit thread anyway, Isnt it.

In a commietard's mind, everyone who doesn't worship his retarded jewish ideology must be a pol-poster.

I guess you have to be that retarded to believe in idiocy like communism.

How the fuck do Commies even get dressed in the morning?

...

Just read the reaction to this shitty java program:

Are you going to put it on github under the GPL license?

We're coming, bucko!

Is it really THIS easy to impress leftypol? An incredibly simple Java program is making a statement?
This is why I cant have any respect for that board. I would expect this from Reddit, but not on here.

Its not. Corporatism was created thanks to Keynesian economics and government subsidies. Capitalism implies a free market

Don't try and argue with the lefty. He has no brain. He probably believes corporatism would still be a thing if all those banks were allowed to go bankrupt instead of receiving bailouts

I appreciate you all taking an interest in my work, however I just wanted to clear up the water.

This was simply a school project I made for a final grade in the class. It is based off the work of Allin Cottrell and Paul Cockshott from their book "Towards a New Socialism" which you can read here: ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf

I highly suggest it even if you're not a socialist, it gives some interesting proposals for how a future society can potentially work with modern computers.

I would appreciate it if you kept the discussion surrounding my work civil.

Also, this project was created to replicate what a socialist economy would look like in a game form - i.e. I made it particularly simple and left out linear optimization and iterative calculations for labor coefficients because it would have taken too much work for a simple school project

I presume they appreciate that I actually took Cockshott's work and turned it into something real, instead of leaving it in the abstract. You may see it as small and silly, but it's just the beginning

I appreciate the sentiment, and I don't personally mind any of this, but do you have any idea what kind of site and board you're on

No, this is my first time dealing with these types of boards

As a non-socialist. I love reading these papers regardless
fuck off with the hugbox shit here though

Seems to be a trend with leftists here
Lurk moar

The main characteristics of imageboards are that they're anonymous, unfiltered, and rude. People don't have an identity and therefore don't have a reputation to ruin, and moderation is often loose, so people just say what they want to. If someone thinks something is shit they're going to say so.
That's actually really useful and refreshing once you get used to it, but you do have to get used to it first, and if you don't yet "get" the culture it's very noticeable. That's why people tell you to lurk, to just read for a while until you understand the way the community works before you start posting.

I would imagine that an economics program would be much more complicated with its model. Does Cockshott simplify the entire agricultural economy into one variable? That's what I mean. Its not worth those posts for something that doesn't appear to scratch the surface of that work. Write it in C and make it do something thats a much more complete representation of that work and its something more interesting to look at.

I imagine that the kinds of people on the Holla Forums related boards have a very different culture, because its full of Reddit immigrants isn't it? Its clear that you guys are outsiders to the community here. Lurk more and learn how people post, you have to discard your ego and realize that there is no reason or need for consideration, only honestly, when there are no consequences to your reputation for your posts.

I don't think Java is a good choice (although it was probably mandatory for his assignment), but why C?

Cockshott certainly does not reduce it to one variable, and neither do I even. I have four main variables governing the game:

Even with these, it is still an oversimplification of Cockshott's work because I made this as a game to get an A on a school project, not to reinvent modern economics. I just wanted to share my work because I thought the people on that board would find it interesting to know that something like this does exist.

In one of the last chapters of one of Cockshott's latest books "Classical Econophysics" the pseudo code for how the planned system should work is actually there if you want to take a look.

Because C is more fun to write than Java and is a nicer language.

Well, it really looks like you got shoved in the spotlight without a great reason, so everybody is talking about your work, even though its not something that stands up on its own. Maybe you'll have something with more merit later.

God damn, quality arguments lads. I cant andle all this logical, rational argumentation

C is fun for low-level stuff, but it doesn't seem like the correct tool for this job.
Consider Python.

It wasn't real communism.jpg

you're just crunching numbers. There isnt a reason to use one language over another aside from liking it.

Maybe a control economy needs to be faster than python? I would rather have one written in C.

The other definition isnt referring to a model of government so no, its not even applicable.

Writing it in Python will take less time and produce fewer bugs, probably.
It's also an extremely popular and useful language for number crunching, thanks to numpy and friends. It can be fast.

I almost feel sorry for muritards

sure, i just find it very boring to write python. It feels like i'm assuming everything because its so implicit, which makes it annoying to write. Also, all the "advanced" features of the language just seem like bad ideas. (like, the OOP, operator overloading, etc)

you've just been posting tons of angry replies in this thread. Its like you've been on reddit / leftypol for so long that you cant handle interacting with normal people (normal as in; not subscribers to your pet fringe political ideology).

Two different posters, user. And Im never any more antagonistic than the posters I was replying to, nor do I intend to put in the effort to make real ponts in response to facebook tier meme arguments on an non-politics board.

Python is kind of boring, but in a good way.
cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD03xx/EWD340.html
It sounds like you're just not used to simple things being simple to do. Python is explicit, compared to most other languages at the same abstraction level. That's even part of Python's semi-official philosophy.
python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/#the-zen-of-python
What's so bad about those?

the implicit-ness is what makes it more complicated than it has to be. This is because nothing is labeled as what it is, this is derived from the operations applied to it. This means instead of looking for the highlighted type names, i have to look at the operations and guess.

With operator overloading I don't know what the operators will do just by looking at it. More guesswork.

This isnt simplicity; lowering the amount of things in the syntax makes it more complicated because there is less information than there should be.

...

You're supposed to complement the source code with technical systems documentation. This means complete data dictionaries of data structures as one part of the documentation you write to describe the system.

Come on now, even the wikipedia article for the calculation problem points out cockshott as one of its criticisms, on grounds that its not such a problem with computation. Im not even in favor of the centralization thatd be required for it, but thats not addressing it at all.

It's a question of scale and complexity
You need an adaptive tracking control system for a non-linear system of an innumerable amount of state variables
The only scope in which it's even slightly calculable is local, in state variables and time scale, which is exactly what businesses do

no, you're just retarded. using communist as an insult is retarded period, and this has nothing to do with reddit or leftpol or whatever bullshit you're on about.
fuck off 2nd generation newfag cancer
t. not guy you replied to

My first post in this thread but okay

>true capitalism was never tried!
Oh you silly Americans :D

Where did this come from? Now you have to write technical documentation to understand your python code? That pretty much defeats the point of it being simple, right?

This is exactly what I mean, a bunch of fags from the /gnussr/ or whatever coming in, making one post (or samefagging) and shitting it up because of being unable to handle that their ideology is generally not socially acceptable.

...

You can't be a socialist and an anarchist. Socialism opposes anarchy due to the reliance on having some form of state with socialism.
No, it doesn't and if you believe that you're an idiot.

Both of you are retarded faggots for trying to turn this into "HURR LEFTYPOL RIGHTYPOL UPPYPOL DOWNYPOL"

All commies and nat socs please fuck off to your containment boards.

The concept of containment boards is completely lost on any imageboard with user-created boards.

Holla Forumss user count is disproportionate to its PPH. They're scripting VPNs to raise their board rank. Bui did the same exact thing to /furry/ once. That's partially why Codemonkey put Holla Forums dead last on the main boards to be recovered from the hack and their disgusting tranny BO threw a shitfit

What if people use BOTH boards? The only one at fault is the OP, not the people responding to retarded shit.

Richard Stallman explicitly says he's not an anarchist.

After that he usually says he has a pro-state gland.

But y'can be pro-capitalist and anarchist, right, because you can enforce private property rights without a state perfectly fine, right. Again, the equating socialism=statism is retarded.

that hes not entirely an anarchist, because they need some state to enforce the GPL. it was specifically that he described himself as a cross between an anarchist and democratic socialist, or something like that.

gay drama thread
muh pol muh leftypol
muh trannies
muh nat soc whatever the fuck that is
S A G E
A
G
E
S A G E
A
G
E

S A G E
A
G
E
S A G E
A
G
E
S A G E
A
G
E
S A G E
A
G
E

S A G E
A
G
E

S A G E
A
G
E

S A G E
A
G
E

If you ever read Stallman's news commentary feed for a length of time you'll see that he's a social democrat but not a socialist. I've never heard him describe himself as a socialist and I think he's intelligent enough to know how dumb the socialism = gubbermint doing stuff meme is.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, im just talking about how he describes himself. I think hes a little bit politically oblivious outside of his area of exeprtise, as much as I like him.

sage is not a downvote.

yall niggaz posting in a gay thread

don't you mean pozting :^)

sage to the grave

Light yourself on fire faggot.

I deal with Java "apps" every day to manage various datasets and corporate reporting tools. They are all universally shit. SAP frontends, revision control systems, project time managers. All 100% shit. Please stop.

For the love of God why didn't you just let this thread die? Why did you have to bump it back up to page 0?

well shit Holla Forums, doesn't anyone at least think it's an interesting idea ?

...

>>>/reddit/

youtube.com/watch?v=y_iiacXiJYE
read some of the pdfs linked in that vid description, you are the one who is outdated regurgitating Austrian school economics propaganda from the 1930s which wasn't been relevant in the light of Shannons work on information theory, much less Cockshotts. the fact that anyone still believes in the austrian ECP after 1995 is a testament to how quantitatively illiterate libertarians are.

This is shit. No one on reddit cares about muh reputation, they are totally lobotomized so what they openly say they believe, they can't ruin their reputation by being silly moderate mainstream without any hope and vision.

congratulations, in a thread where people are unironically advocating for communism you managed to make the dumbest post in the thread.

This question is simple;
In cases where a resource can be copied a GPL type of system is the best since the true price of the resource after begin initially created are little to nothing. In cases where a resource is limited (like land) true freedom should exist for the owner since others must deny you use of it to use it themselves.

How do you decide who gets to use limited resources? Force. To the winner go the spoils. Life isn't fair.

That's actually not an bad idea. You could set up dedicated service for web page retrieval and send plain HTML with pre-rendered dynamic content to the client. Doesn't Stallman actually does something like this already? The best thing would be to use some kind of public hosting, maybe something like 000webhost, so you actually fetch webpage from their server and send static content back to yourself, basically a web proxy but with enhanced privacy and debloating features.

If you know a little about economics and Computer science, try reading "Towards a New Socialism", by WP Cockshott & A Cottrell. Its a book on how you would use computers in the context of a cybernetic planned economy. You can find it free as a pdf online:
ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf

Yeah they do, that's why they karma whore and raid peoples post history for anything to disagree with and start a witch hunt.

...

...

You do realise just how much of a viral license the GPL is right? if someone uses a single line of GPL code or even links to GPL code (the exception being system calls if I remember correctly) they have to open source their entire program. Whats even worse though is that it doesn't even effectively protect against large corporations wrongly using GPL code (see: any of the numerous violations of the GPL by Chinese manufacturers) since the only groups which have the resources to fight the massive court cases and actually care are companies whose entire business model is blackmailing over such things. Meanwhile small companies who can't fight such battles simply choose to not use GPL code and because of it are at a disadvantage. By using the GPL you are actively choosing to make it harder for small software companies to compete with the likes of Google, Microsoft, etc.

Outside of the Linux kernel the the majority of the widely used open source programs (LLVM, Docker, Apache, etc) use more permissive licenses such as BSD, MIT, Apache, and LGPL. If Docker and Apache were GPL very few people would use them due to the nature of the GPL license.

If you are concerned about people or companies taking your code and claiming it as their own then you should use the LGPL license. Since it doesn't require users to open source their entire program your code will get used more and by companies who will likely end up paying you to maintain it if your code is useful enough.

It takes more than a single line.
Calling it "viral" is very misleading, because it doesn't "infect" a codebase. You have to deliberately introduce GPLed code into it, and you can take it out again. Not like a virus at all. Stop swallowing literal Microsoft propaganda.
It doesn't always work, but making the shit those Chinese manufacturers do legal would hardly be an improvement.
I don't think Google and Microsoft are in the habit of violating the GPL. They actually really dislike the GPL, which means it's doing its job.
How many of the people who use Docker and Apache do things with them that would violate the GPL? Do you have any examples?
You do realize that copyleft only triggers the moment you distribute your modified version, right? The GPL wouldn't bother you when you're just using Docker. It would bother you if you created a proprietary fork called NuDockerPlus™ and tried to sell it, though.

The GPL is only as viral as copyright law. Nobody forces anybody to take another's GPL code into their own codebase and then subsequently distribute it.

If small American companies are able to get patents for their inventions, then small American companies are also able to ask the court for an injunction over the importing of these copyright violating Chinese imports.

I'd like to remind everyone that GPL is not a usage license and says nothing about usage. GPLv3 is a software conveyance license that only governs the conveyancing of the licensed software.

Like the Amerkikes violating British copyrights during the 19th century industrial times and cloning/ripping most products.
Kek this is coming full circle,sometimes I wonder if skydaddy exists.

How many lines of code does it take, exactly? And is there any precedent to back up this number?

And it happened again within the US during the dawn of the movie era. You know why the US film industry is based in southern California? Because that was as far as one could get from Thomas "sue everyone for everything at the drop of a hat, I hold a shitload of movie-making patents" Edison's New Jersey companies and still stay within the continental US.