Holla Forums has found themselves some new propaganda

I don't care if you are a socdem, I just think the thread is shit.

Have you ever read Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxemburg? You should.

The tactics of your "practical solution" are based on a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of revolution, or the nature of Social Democracy as an ideology. You need to read more.

cool cool lads. Others are contributing so im gonna go interact with them, k?

You're easily the worst poster here.

I havent, and i will. Thanks for the suggestion.

>>>/reddit/

I like the ending, he just sends all this to Obamas personal email.

You guys are part of this problem. You and the social liberals in the West are the most active in the pathetic shaming campaign against the "white" people who should be on our side. Fuck off with your identity bull shit. If you're a social democrat, you're not as left as us. You're not even socialist. You fucked up other leftist movements like the libertarian one by undermining it. You''re part of what fucked up the left.

Give the guy a break, Jesus. He's contributing, and he's hardly the worst poster here, by a long way. A lot of socialists start off as SocDems for those kind of "practical" reasons when they first start getting engaged in political thought.

No problem.

Not really wanting to gett too of topic, but as i said then, i understood their were splits in both the left and the right, and the lefts concerns with the EU were perfectly justified.

All he does is bitch about the EU and nationalism.

Meant to write:

So be a proper socialist and educate him. If the issues he sees as concerns are the EU and nationalism, then help him to connect those issues to larger questions that are more important or interesting.

When someone constantly moans about x,y, or z feature of capitalism, they are giving you an opportunity to help them understand how it is capitalism itself that is the cause of these features, and what must therefore be done about them.

Fuck me some ones pissed. Look buddy, like i said, its what i see as practical IN MY AREA. If there were means of production to be seized, i would certainly do so, if there were a communist or socialist movement that isnt just online, id certainly join.
Study limits the time i can commit, but i would if i werent constrained. Guys please, im trying to help discussion and you are focusing on a fucking flag that i use. I dont identify with everything it promotes, i certainly dont think its the right way to go, and i do agree that in the past it has lead to undesirable consequences, but i say again, its what i think is best for me, where i live.

Brexit is topical, ill stop soon i promise :*
As for nationalism, its something i feel the left should be against, and many agree, but also many disagree, which leads to discussion (a good thing for everyone, in
case you didnt know.)

Lets get back on thread.

You've got to led the discussion go where it goes in a format like this, buddy.

I think that would not be a bad idea to be honest, an easy one myth to attack is the purpose of the crusades.
The threat of Islam spreading into Europe was not really evident at all during the start of the crusades, it was an attempt to seize the holy land. Also what about the other crusades that didn't target the middle east for example the horribly brutal baltic ones in which large amounts of people were forcibly converted and in many cases killed by the christians?

How hard have you looked? Socialist organizations exist all over. They might not be very big, but they won't get any bigger if nobody joins.

Yeah fair enough, ill try and get things going with anyone who actually is able to stand me.
Its my understanding the crusades where about retaking the "homeland" of christ, so Jerusalem and Bethlehem, and slaughtering countless jews AND muslims because they were in the way because, you know, they lived there. Crusaders where infamous murderers and rapists of civilians (raping anyone is bad also) and so your acceptance of their actions is deeply flawed.

Fair enough I suppose.

I have, and there are none here. Problem is my town is a school town, so lots of over 30's and under 18's. Others my age tend to take the political leanings of their parents because politics isnt taught in school, so alot believe in anti-immagrant/muslim, pro centre/right parties. I do my best to dispel the myths they believe, but the problem is is that its the only thing they know so they cling to it despite what i tell them. Ofcourse not all young people round 'ere are porkies in the making, and ive formed a close nit with those who believe in the left, atleast the down to earth ones. (sorry guys, there are young commies here, but they have no idea about economics or means of production, they just like sharing and wearing red stars). Thats essentially why i align with socdems, as the group i am around is widespread across the left so i like to take the collective values and attribute them to my area and its politics.

You should also touch on the arab christians that were killed by the crusaders.
Another great thing to touch on about this topic would be the fourth crusade, which never even reached Jerusalem and instead sacked, looted and raped the orthodox christian Constantinople.
Really interesting shit and should really be touched on.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

Also here is more about the Baltic Crusades.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades

Thanks for that, saw your early post about it, was furiously typing as it was left so my apologies for not noticing it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade#Outcome

Are you near any of these places? Go along in term time and meet fellow Marxists. Most are open to non-students, I think. Discussion groups:

marxiststudent.com/marxist-societies/scotland-and-the-north/
marxiststudent.com/marxist-societies/wales-and-the-west/
marxiststudent.com/marxist-societies/london-and-the-south/
marxiststudent.com/marxist-societies/east-of-england/

It is all good, glad to be of assistance.

Closest to me is Southampton, little drive away but im sure it would be worth it, thanks alot man :*

No problem man, happy to help. It's important to make connections IRL with other socialists - for you, and for socialism!

Burger claims heritage to crusaders for muh racial superiority, didnt know crusaders where a race,…or does he mean white, christian Europeans? and when he says "our people", who does he refer too?

Some burgers have generalised view about people, they believe in a single culture that all white people share.

its essentially the white version of
which they like to condemn black people for.

Holla Forums, contradictory? Never!

What is the point of this? to lessen the impact of the trans-atlantic slave trade because its their ideology that was responsible for it? Even so, just because there was a "white slave trade" doesn't mean the other slave trades were justified, the same way ANY slave trade is unjustifiable. Just because A got oppressed but we focus on B, doesnt mean B wasnt oppressed just as much or worse.

Quite pathetic isn't it?

It was really badly argued I think, maybe it is because they feel like modern society places the sole blame of slavery on white people when people around the world have also participated in slavery. I also guess that they feel harder done by because they see it as Europe ended slavery.

They're idiots. What "white" ppl are they talking about. The Europeans have ALWAYS been at war with each other. Different European nationalities, cultures and even ethnic groups have always fought and resented and waged war against each other so what "unity" are they talking about? The last two world wars were mostly begun and ended by the European people. They need to read some fucking books. The West has battled and deemed their Western neighbors as inferior since the beginning. This has pretty much considerably stopped recently but shit, they're so fucking stupid. Bring this point up. What nationalism is this fuck referring to? French, Belgian, English, Spanish? If they're all nationalists they're just begin wars and animosities towards each other once again. Do these fucks know what nationalism is? Oh and finally, if you're going to inherit the (fake) "pride" of your ancestors, you shall inherit their shame as well. They're just stealing the accomplishments of people that happen to be born around the same area they were because they're devoid of any sense of worth.

succinctly succinct

Overall I see the white slavery thing is a feels thing because the far right is based around feels > facts.

Interesting point you made about ancestral shame being inherited if you want to inherit ancestral pride, is it essentially that if you deem a past success to be beneficial to life now then you must also accept that atrocities deemed unacceptable in today's standards, and events that postponed unity amongst different peoples be they of a different nationality or race must condemned? is this a logical white guilt?

People don't get converted to that way of thinking.
They choose it.
It's a character flaw,whether inborn or learned,it's still a choice.

This may be a freewill sort of religous view,but we have a choice.

Whats the goal of bringing it up? Im sure they dont want reparations from anyone (unless they say the jews did it, in that case give us ur shekels m8)

I really don't know, maybe they themselves feel guilty and as such need to bring up such things to feel better about the past?

Nationalism is feel-good shit meant for its adherents to go behind "their people" and feel all good about it.

Good points, its all about them feels.

bump

Wew

It's not really worth it. What's the point of the video? Jerking off to mah national pride.

Well intended point is to help those who are sympathetic to the far right to see the logic behind the rhetoric, I suppose those who are already right wing won't listen though. I guess it's to make fun of Holla Forumss "serious" posters. If anything it helps those of us who don't know any counters to these points, because whilst this maybe a decrepit board, there are always new members, especially Holla Forumss more liberal members who lurk this board (we know your here, join us)

Critiquing this vid in particular, I can definitely point out issues I see in my own ideology, and I'm sure many on this board can point out mine.

Okay.

Tenks