Was Brexit good or bad for the proletariat?

Brexit is the worst kind of bad. There is real potential for good in it that will be wasted on idiots like Boris.

Chaos is always good.

Chaos is opportunity

Chaos strikes fear into the hearts of the elites

Chaos brings misery to the average Joe that brings him to our side. The collective suffering to come is only good for our side, the side of violent revolution of course.

Once Ukip and the Leave Torries become completely discredited, the Brits will turn against the bourgies and will bite the hand that supposedly '"feeds" them. If Trump gets elected in the US, a similar scenario will unfold.

UKIP. They were a large face of Brexit.

Good if labour does something for the working class and wins the election.

Bad if they do nothing and be classcucked liberals.

Not even once.

very bad for workers in the short term. the far right sacrificed the economy because muh borders. yes the 1% has taken a hit, but as nice as it is to see porky squeal, understand that the elite will simply place the economic burden onto the workers . unemployment and lower wages are on the horizon.

the only way it can be construed as 'good' is from an accelerationist point of view.

lel what the fuck

Not really.

newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/if-you-want-genuine-leftwing-government-you-need-vote-leave

neither, but it will make it easier for either a fascist or socialist movement to rise since local porkies are easier to fight than international porkies. id say the former would succeed with the current situation though. but since fascism is even more contradicting than capitalism, after the fall of fascism in the UK, we might have a chance at a revolution.

It's hurt the workers a little in the short term with the pound being sold off increasing the cost of some goods and holidays but longer term it's not going to matter because you can bet we're going to be in the EEA or something similar which means access to the single market and free movement of workers which will shit on the xenophobes. Boris used it as a power play to become the Tory leader he's not going to go full isolationist and hurt porky. They want immigrants to keep pensions going, the elite and bankers need Europe and Europe needs us because we buy more than we sell.

This.

Oh wow

“Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent.”

Neither, because there wasnt a clear ploretariat force behind none of the options. Lexit was a minor force inside Brexit, as far as propaganda and media coverage goes.

If the UK had a big, strong Communist Party that went for Brexit, the situation woulx have been much better.

Good one.

i want to believe this will give corbyn momentum

48% of the electorate is going to be angry with a boris led conservative, and UKIP as a single issue party now has no reason to exist

the youth are up in arms about muh old racists ruining everything, hopefully this carries forward to high youth turnout in a GE

also there are the working class labour voters that voted for brexit. Some think this means they have turned to the far right, but they haven't forgotten what thatcher did to the working class

corbyns tactical backing of remain may win him all these voters, allowing him to pull britain further to the left than would ever be possible without brexit

Okay so now that we have left the EU why would anyone support them?

I will eat every item of clothing I own if the English people (Scotland is leaving, remember) vote for a genuinely socialist/communist party within the next 20 years.

Anyway, there's really no reason why a socialist government couldn't just invoke Article 50 and leave once they were in power. We don't need the Conservatives to negotiate a leave on behalf of this hypothetical future government.

It was good the EU is a horrible neo-liberal mega state which is impossible to institute socialist laws for members and also due to the right being the face of brexit they will take the blame for the economic instability.

You are delusional, and if they were smart they would ignore the EU and start their own socialist government.

If labour plays their cards right, this could be them.

Again, a socialist government is impossible under the EU.

Tell me again where in the labour manifesto they support abolishing private property and handing control of the means of production to the workers.

Completely false. You don't have a shred of evidence to support that wild assertion.

The conservatives don't want to leave the single market or stop free movement, straight after the vote Daniel Hannan was on newsnight saying he would be ok with going in the EEA (which is obviously contradictory for a lot of leave voters). They will use extra sovereignty to strip away worker rights and human rights and for Boris it was engineering a way into power. Their campaign was built on lies like giving the NHS extra money.

This doesn't change that the EU is anti union and anti nationalisation which gives socialists good reason to oppose it. The problem is Britain will only elect centrist sounding neo liberal governments so it's difficult to turn it into a positive situation.

They're certainly anti-nationalisation. I haven't heard of them being openly anti-union before (I thought that was mainly the Conservatives?). Anyway, this is why I'd support a Brexit if the people of the UK had proven themselves capable of electing a left-wing government.

Precisely.

Even if the party suddenly shut down, Farage and his voters still exist and believe their own xenophobic propaganda. This whole thing has given a lot of political momentum to the fascists.

I repeat

Might be easy for you to say but I already have no job, this is going to make things even harder, what do you know about it fucker?

EU has a bunch of neoliberal policies that force private competition and prevent eg nationalising railways

How does that prevent a far-left government from getting elected in the UK on a platform of "we'll leave the EU and then nationalise everything"?

Let me guess, are you one of those people who calls everyone right of Cameron "fascist"? UKIP are essentially just full-fat conservatives both in terms of economics and immigration. That's pretty right wing, but it's no more fascist than the actual conservative party like 20 years ago.

I think working people would be less interested in right wing demagogues if the mainstream left actually bothered to listen to them rather than make concessions to parliament and the EU whilst seeking to protect the upper-middle class and basically no one else.

...

When companies start packing their bags and moving to the continent it will matter. It's already threatening to screw over the Port Talbot steel workers.

If all prices went up by ~10%, that would be pretty fucking disastrous for a lot of the working class. There's no way wages would be increased to compensate.

No, not anyone who votes for UKIP, but a minority who have genuinely fascistic views.

Well too bad, they've already bought into it and are blaming poor migrants instead of capitalist overlords.

Well then they'd no longer be under the EU and I don't understand your point

This is what tankies actually believe

I did not say it was a complete "socialist party", I said they could be if they played their cards right. Its also funny that you should mention that because the EU is far from that and would only make that harder to obtain.

You are absolutely delusional, how can you reform a undemocratic state that is built from the ground up to be anti-socialist, and enslave the working class to international businesses? The EU's policies and actions is the evidence unless you completely turn you head away, socialist have time and time again made the case.

This article here and here provide enough.
socialistworld.net/doc/7529

It's too early for anyone to know exactly what the ramifications would be either of staying or going.

Not in a million years

Okay, so you have a minority of a party that got like what? 10% of the vote? Wow, it's like Hitler is right there in London.

And I cannot blame the few who do one bit when every so-called left-wing party is telling them to side with capitalist overlords.

The majority of the leave vote was due to race-baiting about immigration, it's the bad old days all over again

Are we going to have death camps, no, but I fail to see how xenophobic fortress england is fertile ground for leftism

My original post was here:

Someone responded:

I refuted that, so my original point stands. We don't have to get the conservatives to do the negotiation on our behalf. We can just wait until we get the leftist government you're talking about.

Young people don't vote. It doesn't matter that they try to portray themselves as if they are active politically and engaged on it, they are not. A lot of young people didn't vote, and before some idiot say "Well, they are disillusioned with voting", it wasn't because of that. They simply thought their opinion would win and that they didn't need to vote. Political illiteracy at its best

It wasn't. Leave was 52% of the vote. 52% of the voting population aren't massive racists contrary to what the shitspewers of Channel 4 would like to say. How much of the vote did UKIP (racism-lite) get? 10% last time around. How relevant are the BNP or Britain first (actual fascists)? Not relevant at all.

Because it isn't a xenophobic fortress. It's a smaller, weaker neoliberal capitalist government.

but now they didn't win, do you not think this could serve as a wake up call to actually engage in politics an vote?

i'm speculating hard I know

no, because the people never learn

he said it was ok if the cause was the left/right, not the end result

That's like an ass-covering statement. He still support actions that will lead to fascism.

Ashcroft poll says 48% of leave voters think of multiculturalism is a force for ill

lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

No one knows, but with a tory government probably bad. With corbyn, good.

STEM fags are fucked though. Research isnt gonna get nearly the same level of funding. I'm probably gonna move country after uni now tbh.

This is not how things work, where is your evidence? I provided mine.

This is why you negotiate on your behalf, this is not rocket science.

Where have you been, it seems to me that you don't know much of what the EU has done against the working class, and also completely ignoring the evidence I posted.

tuaeu.co.uk/the-terrible-tale-of-the-eu-and-trade-union-rights/

This is why you get up off your ass and spread class politics, its completely on the Left to get this job done, not relying on neoliberal institutions.

what if the fascists just kick it off and there's a reactionary left wing countermovement? you'd rather have the status quo?

51% of leave voters also think that capitalism is a force for ill.

Remember millions of them signed an e-petition. I know that's basically meaningless but it shows a lot of them are pretty desperate now they realise how badly they've been fucked.

Because that always happens, right?

This is a false dichotomy. I wouldn't have neither.

Source?

The poll in the post I was replying to.

Nope that's 29% for leave voters and 30% for remain voters.

lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

page 161

No, it says that 50/100 people who dislike capitalism voted "leave".

Yeah the graphs show 80% of racists* vote leave, not that 80% of leave is racist*

*using 'racist' as shorthand for 'dislikes multiculturalism' but i don't feel like arguing semantics

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I don't wanna sound like the "get-off-my-lawn" grandpa but that's all this new generation believes, Comfortable protest (read "showing of dissent") that it's convenient to both the dissenter and the status quo maintainers.

Well they're not about to tear down the system that gives them their ipods. They do care enough to vote next time though, since it's been shown that leaving the EU would inconvenience them when going on holiday.

Read my post again, carefully.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy. It isn't hard to understand.

This is my exact fucking point. Learn to read. A Brexit now is stupid when the Conservatives and UKIP get to take advantage of it.

Ignorant fuck.

When are we going to be useful?

Huh?

Class consciousness is almost non existent, that's what we have to tackle for now. God knows how.

but it is.

this e-petition?
boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/78792913

...

They gave up. They bloody gave up. It's that Venezuelan petrol dollar user. They don't have anymore.

I gave you evidence to why a socialist government is impossible under the EU from a variety of sources from Trade Unions, Socialist, and members from the labour party itself, you are simply ignoring my argument at this point.

This is makes your logic fucking stupid, why go back to the EU(which I have clearly have shown you that it is near impossible to become a socialist government as member of the union) when you are going to leave again anyways?

The EU will not protect you from nationalism, in fact it was the EU's neoliberal policies that have helped create a climate where fascism can grow in the first place.

This is where many of the European Left problems are.

theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/

Why can't the Left in the UK also take advantage of the situation, its far from too late and you can start now, many already have. If many on the Left in the UK would stop backing the source of the working classes oppression, demonizing them for going to the right for their inability to even try to fight for policies that benefit them. Only then a strong Left government can truly become realized in the UK.

they gave up though

...

*what

How do you define a "socialist government"? We're completely talking past each other here.

I define it as a government with a socialist manifesto who will actually follow through on their promises. How the fuck do the EU's trade union laws prevent a government from being elected on a socialist platform?

I don't believe you're arguing honestly. Surely you must be trolling, right? I'm talking about whether we leave now - not leaving and then rejoining you imbecile. We haven't even left the EU yet. The Lib Dems and possibly Labour are going to be running on a platform of ignoring the referendum result.

Also, to add to this, the title of the thread is "was brexit good or bad for the proletariat?".
We're talking about the brexit vote result which just happened, not some hypothetical future where we rejoin the EU.

A manifesto does not mean shit unless you can enact upon them, which I have shown that you can't

You somehow as a fucking socialist did not know how Anti-Union the EU was, so I gave you information that you should have known already.

I gave you articles that you refused to read explaining why you cannot enact much policies if not none at all that benefits the working class under the EU.

How is the Left ever going take power when we are unable fight for policies that protect and make the working classes lives better. Things will become worse and you will get fascism either way.

Explaining how brexit can be good for the proletariat if the Left in the UK were to take advantage of it is on topic. This doesn't matter anyways because discussions in threads go anyway way they want, are you new to image boards or something.

Forgot to remove sage

Except by leaving the EU, which is what I've been fucking repeating for half the thread.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.

Just in case you didn't get it.

First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.
First a government gets elected on a socialist platform, then they leave the EU, then they implement socialist policy.

Bad. Now Brussels can harm them with their shitty policies and they won't have any input whatsoever. And they will lose a number of good consumer and environmental protection laws that the EU upheld.

stockholm syndrome much?

You're not alone in this
Yes. Perhaps you might even get off your arse and fight, now.

We're gonna get fucked like the Greeks. It's about sending a message.

It will have little effect on anything, for the proletariat, the jobs will still be shipped off to poor countries, the immigrants will still come, everything will still happen. It's not like this is Britain exiting the world.

If anything this is evidence of the growing working class frustration with the establishment. Every Porky came out and told them to do something and most of them said "fuck you"

Same reason Trump is gonna get elected

How will a socialist party get elected and gain enough influence when the working class keeps getting taken by fascists do to the modern European left not catering to their interests because EU neo-liberal laws block legislating things that will help the working class?

While the European left has been platforming on idpol issues which don't piss of the neo-liberal elite of the EU, the working class has been getting more and more disenfranchised and continue to grow poorer. This has lead to the working class being quite vulnerable to the tongues of fascists as they are looking for someone, anyone to reach out a hand and tell them who or what is at fault. The longer the UK stays in the EU the more fascism will grow as a result.

As the growth of fascism while being in the EU will be greater the odds of a future Socialist government will get slimmer and slimmer, it is easy to put off difficult decisions forever but if one keeps doing so then they will achieve no progress at all. A socialist platform will have a far easier time getting elected outside the EU.

It all really depends on who takes control of this situation, Labor, or if it'll open Pandora's box into privatization and corporate bullshit. I've got a feeling that, given need to be submissive to the market in this situation, it's going to be the latter. Which is bad. Because once that happens, there's little hope that any kind of progress can be made in this. It's a small window of opportunity, but in the long run I think it might just make the UK far more willing to give itself in, into the market, then not.

A post-modernist Muslim new labour professor Big Society conservative professor and Tumblr user was teaching a class on Jürgen Habermas, known continental philosopher.

“Before class begins you must get on your knees and worship Habermas as the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Queen Elizabeth II and accept the EU as the most revolutionary project in world history and the only post-nation-state entity in the world capable of meeting the challenges of the 21st century!”

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, unreformed British Tory who drank 1500 cups of tea a day and fully supported all past military actions of the British Empire stood up and waved the Union Jack.

“If the EU is so great why are all the refugees and immigrants coming to Britain?”

The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and replied, “Because the inhabitants of Britain have learned to be truly tolerant, post-national, and accept a competitive labour market unlike the rest of Europe, you racist!”

“Wrong. It’s been 41 years since Great Britain joined the EU, if the British people were truly European and post-nationalism, as you say, is real…. then this should be an EU flag by now.”

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of The European Dream. He stormed out of the room crying those bureaucratic, adaquately multicultural European tears. The same tears Eurocrats cry for the “refugees” (who today live in such luxury that most own cellphones) when they jealously try to claw away the national sovereignty and cultures of the peoples of Europe. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, David Cameron, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than another Eurocrat Prime Minister. He wished so much that he had the confidence of the British people to save himself from embarrassment, but he himself had declared that they didn’t exist!

The students applauded and all registered UKIP that day and accepted an appropriately moderate Anglican Christ as their lord and saviour. An robin named “the British Monarchy” flew into the room and perched atop a copy of the complete works of William Shakespeare and shed a single tear into its print. The magna carta was read aloud several times, and God himself showed up and enacted the restoration of all the British Empire’s former colonies.

The professor lost his tenure, the referendum, and was forced to resign as PM the next day. He was forced to become a refugee and died from drowning the next day and his “speeches” were disregarded for all eternity.

The brave student’s name? Nigel Farage.

Nigel needs to be shot with bullets filled with shit

Yeah, but the Brexit was a good thing.

Still reactionary right wingers need to be shot

>He was forced to become a refugee
apparently this one isn't from Holla Forums

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not tbh but if it is

youtube.com/watch?v=9WY-tWsNKDY&feature=em-uploademail

t. Thunderf00t

Brexit was fueled by alt-right and neo-liberal propaganda. The people were fooled, and they've screwed themselves over now. The working class is fucked for good.

RIP UK.

I'll actually give him credit for not jumping on the alt-right bandwagon like his followers want him to, but jesus does he need to stop pretending to understand sociology.
Even during my nu-Atheism phase i saw how shitty his arguments are.

He never did though

Stop weeping into your beer and have a read of this:

indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-desperately-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ

TL;DR : There will be no Brexit

Have to admit. Most other youtubers in his niche, such as Sargon, would immediately start pandering to the audience if they started getting that much hate from them. It shows at least the science man has integrity

That doesn't really mean it wont happen. That is just a theory.

Personally, i think it would be great if Nicola Sturgeon took over as prime minister and completely put an end to brexit

Well, that and the mandatory switch to the Euro in 2020.

youtube.com/watch?v=h0EAsc-pVKM

HAHAH WE'RE FUCKING OUT NOW GET THEM ALL OUT

So why has no-one invoked article 50?

The City doesn't want this to happen. The Tory party is the political arm of The City. It's not going to happen. :D

SALTY COMMIES

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I thought Cameron already did the go ahead. Regardless, it should be out within the week.

Like it matters since that leaves two years of grumbling.

And then we'll just see a Lisbon treaty where they hold multiple votes until they agree to stay by a margin.

Shouldn't you all just be happy about the potential for a free Scotland?

the irony of posting that flag when both Scotland and Ireland are going to leave the UK. The United Kingdom is no longer united you twat.

Lol fuck off. Scotland commies are stuck with us

can you link the exact time?

So fucking naive you cunt

Sinn Fein calls for a border poll everyweek. Also do you think sons of Ulster like me are gonna let the papish state take control of protestant areas?!!

Maybe
No way.

Irish Unification is infinitely more complicated than a marriage of convenience. Not to mention Northern Ireland wasn't much more in favour of remain than Britain as a whole was for leave.

JO COX AREA VOTED LEAVE

Glorious

Please go back to shitposting in Holla Forums. You're boring.

SALT

What exact time? The whole video is the same theme- Muslims rioting.

If you expected something related to the Euro, here. archive.is/Pur86

Bad in the short term, very very good in the long term.

Bad in the short-term, potentially good in the long run

Anyone who thinks Brexit is bad should watch this:

youtube.com/watch?v=nwK0jeJ8wxg

Literally not an argument

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Read the news. no he didn't he called their bluff and said the next PM would have to do it when he steps down in a few weeks. EUrocrats are raging (except the ones with elections coming up who need the support of their pro business voters)

...

your side had twenty years to respond to the concerns. Instead you dismissed them as bigots/stupid/chav/racist. You did this to yourself. Since 1997 the 'left' ,in the UK has cared much more for globalism than the working class.

Enjoy it faggots. You've earned it.

But Farage literally didn't make that claim.

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These talking heads can say whatever they want. EVERYONE who voted leave knew there was something about immigration in there. We're fully prepared for them to try jew us out of it.

redpills yo

If he doesn't he'll be made to. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

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He rode that like the hooker he is. Guilty by association.

Video evidence emerges of Nigel Farage pledging EU millions for NHS weeks before Brexit vote
independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

...

blowjob sounds.mp3

So if you are not a neo.liberal neo-Nazi you have to be in favour of the EU? I hate porky EU and I'd like to watch it burn to the ground. If some of it was started by right-wingers, so what?

This PROVES Nigel Farage is a liar. It's not up for debate.

This is what tankies actually believe

Why would an anarchist want to remain? The EU is a precursor to an inevitable authoritarian government spanning the entire European continent.

Farage is scum for a variety of reasons. But this is a massive logical leap here if you really must look for reasons to dislike him.

I'm not for the EU. I'm against the alt-right. This was a movement spearheaded by them.

It does show that he manipulated public perceptions though. THAT isn't that much of a leap

Maybe Brexit was spearheaded by alt-righters (I thought it was an American phenomena), but opposition to the EU has existed for many years, from the entire political spectrum for many different and sometimes opposing reasons. My reasons for opposing the EU (I'm not british btw) are very different from those of the alt-righters. The point I was trying to make is that we can't always expect purity of the initial movement in the necessary direction; this is not an endorsement of the Alt-Right. That is also not to say we shouldn't be critical of the players in very large social and political movements.

You do know the alt-right is the one taking the credit for this? right? You do know that this will drive many people to them, right? You do know that these two facts setbacks leftist causes for decades to come, right?

I'm aware they're taking credit; good for them. But I certainly do not believe that it's driving so many people to them that it'll set back leftist causes for generations to come.

And if that is indeed the case, then I'd far rather fight the alt-right's claim to credit, attack the EU on leftist terms, and try to recruit Leave voters than to treat a majority of Brits as neo-nazis for leaving a neoliberal union.

People will say good because the EU is global capitalism.
I say bad because the reason for leaving was not about the proletariat, it was about spooks, and those who wanted to stay are more defensive of the EU than ever. Particularly bad because they are mostly young people.

Refer to

Once again, you're ascribing the worst possible motives to the majority of the leave group. Almost everyone I know (my brother is a bigot and voted leave) who voted out did so primarily because "free trade" and "globalisation" are royally fucking over the working class. Shouting this truth down just makes you a dirty Blairite.