Tfw Brexit

Also. Socialism has nothing to do with the workers owning shit. It's precisely the opposite. It props up the aristocrats even further and higher.

Show me a single successful socialist economy. I'm not going to wait for your answer because you can't.

inb4

And to think you're on lefty/pol/

Socialism is much more evil than communism btw.

McCarthy with the memes.

Whoop de fucking do.

You niggers don't own the right to celebrate the death of neoliberalism.

This is a retarded argument. There is no aristocracy under socialism.

yay a definition on a website.

Cool.

Show me a successful and functioning socialist society. You can't because they all end when the workers don't get shit because the plutocrats get it all.

kek

With this tism I'm out. Cya lads.

Yeah, a definition of socialism (collective ownership of production, as opposed to private ownership).

...

Fuck communism

I'm quintessentially British pole living in uk. Very happy about brexit. Fuck the eu, I hope Poland will exit next.

Reminder that meritocracy is natural and communism evil.

If you're a leftist it's because you're weak and you want to bring others down to your level or make them pay for you.

Kek blessed us with Brexit, welfare, tax, and public spending repeals next.

Who the fuck said we're in favor of welfare? That's just putting a band-aid on an open wound. Hell, welfare is just a means of alleviating the economic problems related to capitalism.

GO BRITS , AIM AT THE BALLS

Mass leftist uprising is impossible. Far too many racists, reactionaries.

What's with all the Holla Forumsfags on here this morning?

Were they expecting us to be upset or something?

Yes, they need to fucking lurk more.

We came to mine salt.

Well you're outta luck unless you're alright to mine celebration instead.

...

10/10 argument

That's going to be a long wait.

He's right though, you fucking namefag. Reactionary is a term for whoever you don't like and racists are irrelevent to the cause, they aren't fighting against us nor for us. They're just dickheads.

Show me a socialist country where you had plutocrats.

Most of us are for the Brexit buddy.

It might be used that way, but reactionary literally means "opposed to social or economic progress". This accurately describes many people, and many more if you were to actually suggest to them anything more radical than raising taxes on the rich or taxing hamburgers, like the call to abolish private property rights.

How can you expect the socialist and communist movements, which are one of emancipation among class lines, to not be dependent on a rejection of spooky discriminatory categories like race, ethnicity or nationality?

Wouldn't be too bad if that was the case, but sadly, it blatantly is not.

That's a weird way of saying "it's because you want to do better for yourself", but all right.

I hope so.

I hope Trump wins the American vote, too.

Let's keep accelerating. No reason to stop now.

...

Last time I heard Glorious Komrad Korbyn was pro-remain.

But yes, Holla Forums is pro-leave all along, which explains all the doomsaying threads and muh EU threads all over the first few pages of the board.

RULE BRITANNIA!

...

wew lad

Last I heard, Corbyn was busy saying nothing much.

I dunno about the past few weeks 'cause I wasn't here, but before then most people were anti-EU.

It was Sanders and Korbyn's shitposting.

Korbyn was pro-remain, lad.
YES, BRITANNIA RULE THE WAVES!
BRITONS WILL NEVER BE SLAVES!

Also mind that CPGB-ML was pro-leave.

...

Yeah, suddenly Holla Forums doesn't support Korbyn and Labour after all.

Muh Lenin hat was just a meme as usual.

But I am not a Briton. You are not a Briton.

Why do you want something else to dominate you?

It is true that a lot of us have been memeing about Corbyn for some reason. Probably just the dumb tankies.

I'm not a Briton but I feel for the glorious regain of independence of the Britons!

They shall never be slaves!

...

It's not like most of Labour was pro-remain or anything.

So do the scots and the irish, I hear.

Scots and Irish actually were pro-remain!

So now they shall be slaves and deservedly so!

tfw also second scottish referendum is on the table

Dumb tankies supporting Korbyn? A reformist?

What's next? Tankies supporting Bernie Sanders?

...

Labour are not the arbiters of what every person on the left believes.

Eh, they kinda hate the UK more.

Yes, which is why they shall be slaves to the UK.

What fate, what irony!

Whatever fag.

scotland has the best hope for a revolution and will set an example for other countries

Nah i can see capitalism falling soon
The teaniggers need to strike very soon

And?

Most of you guys were pro-Labour and pro-Korbyn.

And some of you still are.

Not in this fucking lifetime.

Oh, I'm so scared.

We thought the scots and irish were badass, but they lost the fucking votes.

Brits and Welsh and Anglo-saxons are the stronger breeds.

I'm not. I voted to leave and Labour don't even run in my constituency.

Not to mention most people here are radical leftists whereas Labour are SocDems that get widely bullied.

Yes, keep hoping for that future.

For now, I have a Brexit party to celebrate.

See ya later, fags.

GOD SAVES THE QUEEN!

they lost the vote because their population is smaller

what the fuck is your logic

pow

Toeing the line of a party no matter what is retarded. Following blindly a leader no matter what is retarded.
Will you still support Farage or Trump if they start to promote multiculturalism?

...

What Britons?

Scots are pretty Viking m8. Lots of Anglo Northern Irish, too.

They're convinced Corbyn is a crypto-Tanky.

...

Blairites are attempting a coup. Fuck.

Lmaoing at all the salty liberals.
Remember guy's: Its racist to not wanna get fucked in the ass by corporate oligarchs in Brussels.

Eh, Corbyn wasn't doing anything anyway.

He's not wrong. They are.

TFW the whore empire is finaly dead.

Aren't most muslims in the UK Pakis? This doesn't really do anything except stop Polish workers from coming over.

Holla Forums needs scapegoats so that the universe makes sense.

Well, that's important and good for socialists though.

For Race-Nationalists, it's not really their main concern.

...

You're conflating socialism with a misunderstanding of communism. Communism is where no one owns anything and critically there is no money because without money you're ownership is limited to utility and need (see John Locke's spoilage principle)

Now socialism is predicated on wealth redistribution, wealth confiscation and the elimination of private property through coercion. Marx was, in his defence, against the forceful abolition of property but only because he believed it would not be successful.

The european union funnels capital from successful member states to economically useless ones, like greece for example. The EU is socialism, on a multinational scale. Britain leaving the EU is not a victory for socialism it is a defeat.

Yeah its working all right for Greece, country is basically owned by German Banks.

Socialism.

...

HURRR DURRR DEAR SOCIALISTS SOCIALISM IS REDISITRIBUTION OF THE MEANS OF CONSUMPTION THAT IS WHAT YOU SUPPORT DON'T YOU KNOW THAT?!

Cool. I want to take what I make. I don't really care what you call that.

Semantic-twisting is useless.

Where do you get these ideas?

We liked Corbyn for BTFOing the Blairites, not because he wanted to stay in the EU

Alright lads, who're they going to blame when everything goes to shit?

I mean, I'd love it if they blamed capitalism, but the right's gotta jump on something.

I'll post it again.

Socialism is worker ownership and management of the means of production

"lol but what does that even mean xD"

Think of it this way:
In any given society, you're going to have three basic groups of people:

Productive Labor - The people who directly produce the goods and services society needs though their work, they must necessarily produce more than they themselves use, creating a surplus
Unproductive Labor - People who's work is not directly involved in the production of socially necessary goods and services (eg - soldiers, lawyers, firemen, police, etc)
The Ruling Class - The people who receive the surplus created by productive labor and decide how it should be used and distributed.

Socialism is a relation of production where that third group has been abolished and its functions distributed to the former two groups, with special deference to productive labor.

The Right is just going to blame the Other like they always do. The only question is what form the Other will take.

I'd bet on it either being the immigrants already in the country or supposed sabotage from the left.

Lefties and Pakis

All that happened is that they cut out poles and italians from the equation.

I'm getting baited. If you're serious, don't talk about things you don't understand. You do realize that the EU was at the beginning a collection of European steel companies that controlled prices, right? You do realize that even the two ideological influences of an United Europe are not Socialists in the slightest.
One of the reason's the EU was even made was for the United States to have a strong currency as a shock pillar for the US dollar.

Making Greece an example to be made of and loaning the money they know they cannot pay back is not socialism.

Oh yeah it's going to go shit. I'm an American, so I can't really tell what the UK people will blame it on. When I look at the referendum map, Scotland voted all remain, so maybe England and Scotland will turn in on one another and Scotland just bails.

...

Mixed with "trying to take ownership of property is weak".

Saw this on Twitter, conducted by a pretty big public opinions body. (Trusting polls right now is probably bad but still interesting).

Seems like the UK would go full Tankie before anything else.

...

Read nigga read!

s3.jacobinmag.com/issues/jacobin-abcs.pdf

50% of brits think capitalism is a force for ill? Fucking fantastic

That's not at all what it's saying.

It's just saying that of those who did think it was a force for ill, half voted each way.

I hope we do it

This fucking country Jesus fuck.
Ironically Keating and Turnbull, two of the biggest neoliberals were always in favour of it.

...

i mean, yeah, fuck the monarchy but geeze
this isn't inspiring at all

To be honest, I was quite sad when I heard the news. The future for young Brits like me has been screwed over by an older generation wanting to return to "glory days" and to be "independent".

Brexit was never about economics, even though there are economic reasons, it was always about xenophobia and FUD about immigration and nationalism.

It's not a win for the left, it's just a win for the old people who will die soon and not see the mess they've affected. Hopefully Scotland at least can save itself.

Hey, he was right, you really don't know what you're talking about.

WEW

All according to keikaku

The left let the right control all of dialog for brexit, it could been about fucking over imperialism, capitalism, and the EU.

Corbyn & CO can still recover now if they go full anti-EU while the Torries are infighting because 70% of them were for staying in the EU(including Cameron the face of Pro-EU)

On the other hand, if we had – and it crashed and burned afterwards – we'd be the ones getting shat on.

...

So an unaccountable bureaucracy built by assorted socialists and championed by two known communists is now global capital?

...

...

...

JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

...

typical Holla Forums

Could you explain to me why Habermas and Derrida (communists) championed it?

You have no understanding of how the modern world an the economy works.

The EU is an entirely capitalist organization, owned by lobbyists, banks, and industrialists.

GIBRALTAR ES ESPANA

The biggest shill for liberal Europe

The biggest anti-marxist liberal in academia.

Bingo. 80% of the lobbyists for TTIP are corporate interests or representatives. And they try to discuss this behind closed doors.

Fuck these people.

see
my degrees say I know a hell of a lot more than you, pleb

both are communists. you're confused, friend. perhaps you should do a close reading of their texts?

...

I have a degree in philosophy, it's you who is the pleb.

Habermas has been the biggest shill for liberalism ever since the EU was created. Maybe he was a leftists in his youth in Frankfurt, but he hasn't been one in over 50 years.

...

why does /lefypol/ immediately start sperging when someone disagrees with them a little bit?

your bachelors doesn't impress me, timmy.. Habermas is a communist. He's doing imminent critque. You should look it up, tough guy

Holla Forums in a nutshell: I'm so fucking cocky - even though I'm a low-IQ poorfag - that I'm not even going to try to learn, but rather attempt to mock people that say things I've never heard before.

This is why everyone hates you Holla Forums and this is why you'll never have your revolution. You are fucking stupid. You don't know shit. Both of those men were and remained communists.

Perhaps you should read Strauss' Persecution and the Art of Writing?

Kant was doing it as well an was basically the founder of critical philosophy, was he a communist?

no

Kek

You just did the same thing.

Fucking lel. That is what BTFO looks like.

no /leftypoor/ i'm not the one that's stupid, you're the ones that are stupid, and if you weren't so stupid you'd see that!!!

Yes, the EU is capitalist : workers don't own the means of production. What assorted socialists are you talking about?

...

It is now.

He thinks that Derrida and Habermas are socialists.

Second Irish Civil war when?

...

This is what a thirteen year old looks like.

There will be no need. They'll keep voting in ways which objectively contribute to the erosion of the union while singing Rule Britannia and thinking they're winning.

...

...

British Unionism is a codename for English Imperialism on British islands.

This is what a thirteen year old looks like.

This bitch nigger mad.

he so mad

...

It overall was much more dangerous for the left to hand over control of the brexit dialogue to the right than petty fears of maybe crashing and burning.
katesheabaird.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/the-lexit-that-never-was/

Nobody in the South would vote for a united Ireland you clown, it has no public support overall, and the requirements to call a referendum will never be met.

The Fishwoman can call an election but she won't in the end, because with the French, Dutch, and the rest now scrambling to save the EU, the shit oil prices, in a few years if the referendum gets called there will be no EU as we know it, Scotland will not vote to drop the pound, and Westminster will be their survival.

There will be no break up of the Union, that is just reality.

holy fuck you absolute philistine

Okay, so I've got the Holla Forums perspective on this.
What's the consensus here?

Don't mind me, I'm just a disinterested third party who doesn't fully understand what's going on.

Jeez, I'm rusty.

He's a troll you mong.

Full on damage control mode.

We were always brexit-guise!

Labour do not speak for us, guise!

"This is good…isn't it?"

EU is an undemocratic, neoliberal mess and while things appear shaky right now in the long run it is a great thing that the UK is out.

This graph was made by an incredible retard.

Remain.

I voted Leave.

Ah, yes, consensus.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Soviet_Republic

idiot

Ah yes, the super egoist shows himself up again.

Can't wait for his hot opinion and how he changes them within minutes.

The actual consensus is "this is the outcome we wanted, but there are issues". One guy's a butthurt and/or trolling Holla Forumsack.

Oi, I'm the super egoist around here. You could be too.

Nah, I will leave that to you.

u shuld b unique

Hey man, Stirner was right, but this is the first time I've posted here in months.

Yes, I am butthurt; how can anyone think of trusting a minority-elected government to draft up a good Bill of Rights, when both the Conservatives and Labour have displayed keen interest to increase surveillance powers and have no problem with limiting rights.

Nobody will care at all about what they putt in this Bill of Rights because the populace is so apathetic on anything that dosen't tug on their tribalistic hatred of the "others".

Always consuming, making itself as it destroys itself, like the worm that eats its own tail…

Pretty good metaphor for the Creative Nothing.

when every1 is unique, no1 is

but when every1 is unique every2 is unique?

what is every2?

its u and me and everyq else (as creative n0thing not as spock)

lolno

That's not a thing.

...

Scots are really nice people.

Well, time to try to do global goverment again.
And for sure free anglos will have nothing to do with it.
Moving to Germany soon, some of you brits are OK, leave Britain in next 10 years.
The plan is to remove all kinds of democracy on global scale, and instute aristocrat version of meritocracy, martial state with units similar to polish ZOMO, but not related to police. You non-democratic commies will enjoy that.
Screw retarded anarchists and any kinds of dem, only thing worse than you is tyranny.
Soon.
Await us.

But we have all the good looking, young and pretty people.

Ew, 3dpd

Well, every anarchist should read and listen to Egor Letov who was punk, who stopped believing in such "nice" thing as anarchy.
As always, anglo punks are totally useless scum.

I am okay with them

I am a voluntarist who wantst to make love, not war to lefty anarchists

You know love was never the way, also under global goverment, you would have enjoyed your life the most. Just think of lack of any actual threats, and any aggresion against the state would be crushed. Making love is not aggresion against the state as far as I know. That's why current world leaders had nothing serious against Woodstock, more popular punk movements and so on. While Letov was, well put in fucking mental hospital by totalitarian "bolsheviks".

Who gives a fuck? It's not about the "who" it's about the "what". We don't fucking care if fucking Karl Marx said to vote Cameron, we still wouldn't do it. What matters in all these discussions, despite what persons are involved, are the actual material conditions. The EU is decidedly a mechanism of capitalism and is anti-leftist. That's a fact.

Being a retard and pointing out strawmen every two seconds might constitute an "argument" on Holla Forums, but not here. Fuck off.

I cannot wait to shoot you.

...

I like you. Even though we probably don't follow the same political philosphy, I like that you can think rationally.

Who was Letov and what did he do? I am not really that familiar with leftists and punk history.

Why don't you just invoke the oven like Holla Forums does?

Is this really how Holla Forums thinks arguing works? Don't address any issues, ideas or counterarguments, just point to a certain group and say "you're stupid"? You literally deserve to be shot, for the sake of civilization.

Korbyn is against because he knows that leaving means handing over england to retards like Boris Jonhson and Farange and that Scotland will want nothing more than to leave now.

And he is right, bar a rise in class consciousness england is fucking doomed

delet this

...

He was one of the most changing person in Russian political arena, he was one of the founders of Nazbol party, tho he criticized them later.
Just read his short biography on wikipedia.
I am still waiting on some serious book on him, as he deserves it.

ayy

Holla Forums should at least get it's facts straight before coming here to mine for potential salt.

...

If labour were not retarded, they would have not left the anti-EU narrative in the hands of those nutjobs first place, its their own fault.

We could always start with Puerto Rico, though I don't know if they can do much being bankrupt.

Puerto Rican Podemos when?

...

I doubt they will discriminate against other british people.

top kek cara

The Ukraine does discriminate against Russia even though they're basically the same thing.

...

Sure, but they had a violent past.

When the genies out of the bottle, all bets are off. Scapegoats are needed.
'Why is the haggis ration being cut? Crypto-English wreckers!'

Scotland and England too

No, I don't think so.

They would at most be angry at the goverment, not at the english or other people living among them.

...

We've been happily unified for three hundred years you dumb fuck.

Ukrain, on the other hand, has been unhappily unified.

...

...

haha fuck off
you know nothing about this country

What the fuck

We weren't literally killing each other.

...

You were born 16 years ago, of course you killed nobody.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Donaldson

In May 1941, during the Second World War, Donaldson's home was raided by the police, who suspected him and a number of other SNP figures of "subversive activities", due to their support for the Scottish Neutrality League. An informant of MI5 told the desk officer Richard Brooman-White that in the event of a Nazi invasion of Britain Donaldson intended to set up a puppet government akin to that of Vidkun Quisling. As a result of this information, Donaldson was arrested and interned under Defence Regulation 18B, sent first to Kilmarnock Prison and then to Barlinnie Prison in Glasgow. He was held for six weeks.

Amerifat confirmed

Goal posts. Moving to far away.

And the seize of the means of production, and, maybe, a visit to the guillotine.

Books, You need to read them.

What an argument.

Amerifat confirmed.

rad
youtube.com/watch?v=YrWCpZC-tKg

...

...

Q U I S L I N G
U
I
S
L
I
N
G

corbychev sold out and gave up on his dreams

unless this was all a ruse, and the shit labour campaign was planned to ensure brexit thus crashing the pound, so he can swoop in when everyone hate conservatives and ukip

then uphold brexit because "oh i have to", and lead us down the path of true leftism

So, what's left to UKIP? They have achieved their only purpose, what are they doing now?

sitting in a bathtub and drinking wine

B8
8

What the fuck do you think it is, socialist?

Either going to filter to other parties, or become some "new" more-right party.

Or maybe they are going to try to replace the Conservatives as the new conservative party?

Leaving the EU only stopped poles and Romanians coming in

They're going to be giving the full go ahead to Reich 4.0 and advocate a whole new era of fascism against "da moslms"

Republic when

...

That would be the implication, yes.

The EU and the rich fat pigs are just using this kind of anti-racist sentiment and sjw pawns to pursue their authoritarian fascist policies.

Dear god, is that all you faggots can ever say?

m8 no one uses the word liberal in the uk in that sense. that is a completely american thing. it shows that you don't actually live here, nor have any fucking clue about scotland

I'm not disagreeing with you, I agree the EU is pro-capitalist. But that's not why most people voted leave, Labour fucked up and let UKIP and the Tories take control of the EU ref and generated a new wave of "much white pride". Polls of leave voters show them to have voted mainly because of immigration, not anti-capitalism. Just stating the facts. There is an even less chance of a revolution now.

Yes, we use facts and definitions unlike you faggots who just like to scream buzzwords like little Tumblrinas.

...

would kek again.

Idk. I just see it as the elite importing new cheap workers and also exploiting the different cultures of the newcomers for racebaiting and creating divisions in society

Those white prides as long as they are reasonable, I am kinda tolerant of, because they wouldn't exist in the first place if corporations didn't lobby the goverment to invite cheap immigrants and loading the cost of integration of to society.

I have some nationalist friends and they kinda see it the same way once I explained it to them.

But yeah. Sure thing, m8. It was the fascists that did this.

...

...

If anything it will just turn into conservative socialism.

the eurosceptic right are useful idiots for communism.

they're weakening global capital and unwittingly strengthening socialist movements

capitalism relies on cooperation, divided it will fail

thanks UKIP, for speeding up the death of the free market

and I voted leave

I would have voted leave*
wtf I am not a britbong

glad to help

t. KPD 1932

I literally don't understand what you're trying to say

The EU is a sinking ship. The UK was smart to leave when they did. Maybe this will force the EU to reform itself and address its democratic deficit. But I doubt it.

...

A = B = C
Comrade, yes!

...

I'm sure that post made sense in your head, but it didn't actually communicate anything, so you should try again. This time, remember that people can't read your mind.

funny how no one is talking about the class divide while ranting on about age endlessly

this was a vote that shows the 'left' in britain have completely lost touch with the most vulnerable they pretend to protect, all in the name of patting themselves on the back

just wanted to list my opinions on those things, nothing else user

God, I love you leftypols.

What would you call it, if not socialist?

Whatever you call it, I'm that.

...

WE'LL SPEND THE 350 MILLION ON REVERSING GENDER ROLES

"Class divide?" Is there some figure on how the bourgeoisie voted and how the proletariat voted?

It's not going to happen. You guys just had your referendum, and the House of Commons isn't going to approve another one, at least not for several decades. Sorry, Scotbro.

This time we'll win, and we'll be able to push it even further leftwards to begin with McComrade.

...

How do you propose this would happen? I say we erect a statue of a pair of tits and a cock in every major city.

Why are you an anarcha-feminist, how do you distinguish yourself from other anarchists?

...

It's a troll flag.

umm yeah it's the figure in the post i replied to

I think you're too thick to understand it tbqh.

Okay. I saw some lgbt-anarchists on r/anarchism and here too I believe, maybe I should ask them.

The HoC will approve another. The alternative is the Scottish Government running a non-binding referendum, then, when the result is pro-independence, there'll be a ton of pressure both from Scotland, and from the right in England, who'll be demanding Westminster let us scrounging, whiny jocks go. It'll happen.

It syphons money to keep the banks afloat, that money doesnt go in people's pockets

Can you go back to pol? You obviously dont understand economics, so why come here?

Well, now all you have to do is tell the HoC this.

You realize the Tories will allow yo the appearance of leaving to remove all military assets, then Longshanks 2: Electric Boogaloo.

...

Scotland voted no on the condition that it was guaranteed a place within the EU (fuck knows why)

This part of the deal has been compromised so chances are it most likely will happen

feels good comrade

Those are liberals LARPing. They're not real anarchists.

Feels good to be part of the few people who got it right?

Can't wait lads.

...

I don't care about anything else.
I just want to sit next to you in the nex communal meeting.

...

Feels good not to be a liar, yes.

I can just imagine the foreign relations shitstorm that would follow. It'd almost be worth it.

Let's face it: Holla Forums is pretty much the bad part of Tumblr, only for the opposite demographic.

MGTOW represent

milo pls stop exploiting autist basement dwellers and selling them tin foil hats

Eh, I guess. By my mark, MGTOW has always been more about lifestyle choices than about politics.

This sounds like you've never actually been on their forums

It's full of Holla Forumstards and 4ever virgins crying about how the sjws have destroyed their lives and teh moslm boogeyman

I wish it was actually about that user

I wish

A proportion of the posters here aren't exactly a far cry from being just that.

where is my aryan waifu? damn sjw! curse you! :^(

So Brexit is more than anything an existential issue, and what the Nationalist Right seems to implicitly understand, and the Left doesn't (because it keeps caving in e.g. Syriza and the EU bailout, Corbyn backing Remain) is that it's at the existential level where Neoliberalism is most vulnerable. The first occasion when globalisation is definitively pushed back, the whole thing is likely to collapse like the proverbial pack of cards. Also, I think the Left were hoping to inherit what they saw as the good bits of Neoliberalism (open borders, supranational institutions, diverse populations) while reforming the worst bits (financialisation, corporate welfare etc.), so they appear a bit tame compared to the Nationalists, and a bit too close to business as usual.

phil-zone.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/actually-slight-amendment-to-post-below.html

So it will never work due to basic human biology?

IF YOU DIDNT WANT WHITE IDENTITY TO BECOME A THING

YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE LET EVERY SINGLE MINORITY WRAP THEMSELVES UP IN IT FOR DECADES AND MAKE POLITICAL ARGUMENTS COUCHED IN, WHILE DENYING WHITES THE muh privilege

YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE REDEFINED RACISM AS "RACISM IS WHITE PEOPLE BEING BAD AGAINST NON WHITE PEOPLE AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RACISM AGAINST WHITES"

STUPID CUNTS

REAP WHAT YOU SOW

...

Technically there's nothing inherently socialist about multiculturalism. Socialism is about the workers owning the means of production.
You should read Sorel if you want to learn about the conservative side of socialism.

You can't be serious

Please fuck off.
Also "white" people did a lot of horrible shit to minorities. I'm not telling you to feel guilty for being white cause that's fucking retarded.

But the reason it's retarded for whites to make arguments about suffering "racial oppression" in the west is because it doesn't exist, not even close to the same extant it was forced onto other minority groups.

Fuck off back to Holla Forums, idpol scum,.

Conservative is a meme that needs to die.
There is no inherent belief associated with conservatism.

Just replace it with whatever you actually want to talk about or people believe that you want conservative social policies.

???

Indeed, next why don't you academically chronicle the sins races you won't get a pat on the back for attacking? Coward

Brexiters confirmed for wanting to take away your memes #MemeFreeOrDie

I don't care what races did in other countries. I look at people as individuals not as an ethnic group. My point is that the notion that there is systemic racism being imposed on white people as an ethnic group that is as severe as was imposed on other races in the west is fucking retarded.

Go back to Holla Forums

other races not in the west*

...

...

lol at dem travelling goalposts. Going back to pol now keep losing

I know, you are only allowed by your masters to critique whites. Thats why we will keep winning in the future and you will keep losing

sure :^)

It was strange atmosphere sitting on the train this morning in London during rush hour. It was eerily quiet. The whole of London practically voting to remain, there was definitely an air of defeat, and severe disappointment. I saw a woman crying on the bus. This truly is evil triumphing over good. And there is definetely a very obvious divide in the country, with the voting ratio almost 50:50. I expect a lot of tension in the next coming years.
Pride in London is tomorrow, so a bit of positivity in such a shocking time. Though, as a volunteer, I am slightly afraid of tensions. But we will stand in solidarity, we will not go down without a fight.

go back to facebook neolib

Gay pride? If yes, it's only circus.

Seriously though, at least Cameron is out… And.. Well… if you vote people that want to reconsider..

On the other hand, I find it equally possible for UKIP to form gov with the Tories or something..

But on the other hand, isn't London full of bourgies?

What you all need to do is to forget about the EU, win elections, and bring socialism to the working class.

Y'know, something that was completely impossible under the EU.

What's a gay pride like?

I am bi, should I go?

I was talking about things in terms of ethnic groups and not as individuals because that's what subhuman Holla Forums posters do.

I don't think "white" people as a group did shit to collectively( not everyone was in favour of it obviously.) But certain ethnic groups in WHITE countries were objectively being oppressed and to say white people experience that same oppression today in those same countries is ludicrous.

Glad you didn't deny the whatboutism though.
Is it our Hegel was a sorcerer friend from yesterday?

So did the Irish and the Scots start taking action or are they going to see England leaving EU without trying to be independent since UK used that excuse.

socialistworker.co.uk/art/42434/Six myths about the European Union

Wahh! the Right is popular right now so we must go back to big daddy EU instead of taking the opportunity to finally bring socialism to the UK because we can't possibly do anything ourselves

YOU HAVE TO GO BACK

i'm so sick of this ignorant "northern ireland voted remain so they are gonna leave the UK" meme

you clearly know nothing about the politics of norn iron if you think that their departure from the UK would be that simple

SF calling for unification means nothing, it's been literally the main objective of the party since the creation of northern ireland

Not talking about their choice to remain, more like :

UK: "Hey we want to be independent with no one interfering in our private matters"

Irish and Scots: "Well good for you faggot."

You might have more success if you were more subtle about pretending to not be from Holla Forums

yeah you clearly have no clue about northern irish politics

look up the troubles

because that is what would start again if northern irish succession from the UK looked likely

So there might be a chance that UK decision might spark a bloodbath again in those parts or people there decided to settle for good?

10/10 best pasta

I bet you think Zizek is a nationalist islamicphobe too you dumb fucking liberal.

go away Holla Forums

tfw leftypol celebrates nationalism over the liberal capitalist basis that communism needs to rise.

Moreover the EU is spreading post nationalist ideology and destroys borders instead of getting ruled solely by bankers. Atleast the EU can now push bank regulations through without the veto from GB.

Fascists are celebrating that liberal capitalism got weakend, and you guys think this is a good thing. God you are not better than nationalists, learn that protectionism is not leftism.

smh

Can you make yourself a bit more clear?

Am not sure I get you.

Are you upset because you know I'm right, and don't you have some work to do?

Like, inform people about class politics and that the torries, UKIP, and EU are all full of shit and want to fuck them over so in end the you can avoid becoming a fascists shithole?

All the shortsighted anit-EU rethoric makes me sick. No one wants the EU but hoping for its demise when all that will replace it is nationalistic capitalism(which will end even sooner in fascism) that provides less wealth to the people is retarded.

I am disappointed that you think insulting people is an argument.

Unless EU becomes EU again and not the Franco-Germanic aliance it is now, nothing can be done to prevent it's demise.

ML's don't like it cause it's foundations were capitalistic.
Nationalists don't like it… cause nationalism.
South doesn't like it, cause the north screws us over.
North doesn't like it, cause they think south is lazy and steal their money.
The Euro only serves the stronger economies.

EU is at it's weakest point and unless it, itself, changes, no matter what leftypol thinks, it will collapse.

Mondragon. Spain.

Totally agree, using the nationalism of the right to achieve your goals in un-leftist. Leave-Leftys need to take a long hard look in the mirror and see if it was *their* campaign that won, and not the campaign of Farage, Boris and Gove.

Yeah, I'm sure racists leap at the thought of collectively owning property with their black brethren.

How am I insulting you and wear am I using it as a argument?

You simple said I was from Holla Forums without explaining what was wrong with anything I said. That is not a argument either.

t. PennyRed

...

So tell me exactly where the Left was going before the referendum and how sustaining the EU is good for socialism in any way?

Yes.

Sometimes opposite sides can agree on something.

No, your right, the left was split as much as the right, but it had a collective responsibility to stop nationalism from dominating the debate, as it does in all walks of life.

what?

i refer you too

I actually totally agree with you on that point.

Blame Labour for being liberal shibby shites that refused to take a stance on anything controversial yet again. And blame Labour for their milquetoast champagne socialism alienating the working class into the arms of hard-right stooges.

no

fuck off

How can you stop nationalism from dominating, when the debate was created by nationalism?

Also, you think the actual left is powerfull enough?

Not talking about the SocDem left. SocDem is what CREATES fascism, by being inadequate.

(You)

Mondragon isn't a society.
But they are a good example of the model that cooperative socialism could take.

There was a time when labor organizations pulled together working class people from different races, even the ones who were incredibly racist, in the cause of their shared class interest. Racebaiting actively undermines the potential return to this sort of boundary-crossing solidarity.

Don't know, sounds like a limey thing. Also,

dont blame Labour, blame Corbyn.
He was always leave and as a politician he put his prinicples before his politics, and as such his heart wasnt in the debate. Labour voters disillusioned until the vote because corbyn didnt want to go against his ideals, even though by doing so he wouldve kept his place as labour leader

There where many legitimate complaints of the EU from the left, taking nations democracy away, TTIP and others, but nationalism took centre stage taking the argument from being rational and an actual argument to being
to stop nationalism, as a collective yes.

There is nothing wrong with nationalism.

The "EU" debate, had always bourgie arguments. It was lost to the bourgies, before the nationalists.

Nah, m8. Labour in general are Blairite stooges and Corbyn may as well be a radical ML as far as they're concerned.

Most of Labour should fuck off to the Conservative party.

*simply
*where
Ignore my bad grammar

This, its their fault for literally leaving the dialog for brexit in the of hands of porky's shills.

Though I still think they could recover if they go Anti-EU and steal PM right from under the torries noses while they're busy infighting.

My alignment as a Socdem is a reaction to the political climate i exist in. If i saw a viable alternitve ready to go, be it comememism or whatever, id support it, but in my life i dont see an alternative. I do concede that socdems in the past have created nationalism, but much like any leftist arguement, i believe in the school of thought that

pick one

You must be new here.

Fact is that comperative advantage exists and that free trade and no tariffs help economic development(to a degree) and we need that.

We will never build a european movement when the population is constantly baited with immgration and evil EU while getting bullied by fascist nations like future Trump USA or Russia because there is no European unity.

Left should campaing to reform the EU and then focus on build local decentralised structures, trying to make some far left nationalist socdem shit like Venezuela and some in Labour want is useless.

With current British nationalism, there everything wrong with it. Sure, Swedish nationalism can exist because they have actual success to celebrate, what do us bongs have? Boris and football hooligans.

It's possible to have free trade zones without also buying into all the other EU horseshit. Tariffs are pretty rare in general these days.

Nationalism is the idea that the nation (i.e., a group of people with shared characteristics who wish to live together) should be the basis of the state.

Especialy when you are importing more than you are exporting, and when your industry is gone overseas…

On the other hand, EU is full central planing, when it comes to production.

"France will produce the wine. Greece will not." for example.

Fuck off dude, you know full well that nationalism is horseshit unless theres significant things worthy of celebration, and even then its questionable because its bragging that your nation is the best.

What you are incorrectly calling "nationalism" is better and more accurately described by terms like patriotism or chauvinism.

Protectionism has always been a thing on Left, fuck off you dumb liberal revisionist.

Something like the EU will always be anti-leftist, fuck off with that shit

thats why the left is doomed

fair economic integration(as in not promoting a race to the bottom) is only possible with political integration at the same time

Nationalism in itself is extreme, state and status quo endorsed patriotism.

Get out.

nationalism can be benign or very dangerous

it can be cheering for england in the euros, or fascism

it's not good or bad inherently, that depends on what form it takes

It's not that we think nationalism is doomed.

It's that we think people right now wouldn't be so racist and nationalistic if the Capitalists weren't so keen on importing workers from different cultural backgrounds.

If the cost of integrating them lies on society naturally those people are going to have a problem with that and racist sentiments increase.

If there were much less muslims in Europe, there would be much much less racism against them.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragón

Racists are still a hindrance.

workers rights and welfare through protectionism is economically stupid and shortsighted and can be achieved better through other methods.

Modern economics knows the dangers of unchecked free trade and has ideas on how to deal with it.

But protectionism outside of protecting industries in their infancy is useless and only promoted by leftist that are at heart actually nationalists

Not remotely. It's one of a few bases for delineating a state's boundaries. Thailand doesn't have its current borders because they want to respect geographic boundaries, they have them because those borders correspond to the distribution of the Thai people (i.e., the Thai nation).
The fact that political terms are routinely and deliberately skewed and misused today (see: liberal, conservative, radical, progressive, socialist) does not mean that we should go along with these distortions, and so allow our political vocabulary to be stilted.
I was going to say that I was surprised by your obvious misunderstanding of the history of that political term, but then I remembered that you're unironically using a socdem flag.

Accidents of birth arent, imo, something to be celebrating.

Learn how to sage.

this are concerns about our society but equatin nation with society and as thus following nationalism only leads to fascism

I am also concerned about integrating and educating masses of stupid culturally backwards foreigners but the solution is not nationalism

holy fucking shit.
get in here guys.
why are you on this board

I've probably been here longer than you.
Quick, tell me what you think "liberal" means. I'm betting you'll be wrong there, too.

how the fuck do you know that? just because youve been here any amount of time more or less doesn't mean you are right/wrong, take your entitlement somewhere else.

you are a ==MONG==

I don't know for sure, of course–that's why I said "probably." I'm going off the fact that you're a socdem, that you're misusing political terms, and that you're triggered by nationalism (when we've always had nationalists here).
Also, you're samefagging a lot.

I don't like the religiously compromised rabble we have now swarming into Europe tbh.

I prefer the Christians to them any day.

You probably don't know what it's like to deal with them on a daily basis.
The shit they pull. The extreme backwardness of the family. Oppression of women and just the extreme nationalism and religiosity.

I don't know why we should look at the worst of them like we are somehow stuck with them tbh.

i see your point

but when the form of nationalism is just enjoyment, through emotional investment that harms no one, then why not?

i suppose you could say non harmful nationalism breeds the harmful form, but i'm not sure that is the case necessarily

cool cool bro, wanna tell me again how you are the purist version of Holla Forums ?

Also
tuaeu.co.uk/unions-across-europe-protest-against-eu-rail-privatisation/

Oh god, just fuck off you neoliberal shill.

Put some more words in my mouth, newfag. I said that you stick out, not that I'm some paragon of the board. Holla Forums has always been contentious.
Do you have poor reading comprehension, or are you just bootyblasted?

i do think that the last point you put forward is true but also the the nationalism through enjoyment does seem somewhat innocent in alot of cases. If we take he euros as an example. As an english citizen, i want so see england succeed, but i mostly want to watch a good game of football, which is why i watch alot of the games. The idea that your heritage in a nation is intrinsically linked to that nations success and the reverse, is harmful and why nationalism can be an issue.

I actually know it, and its bad but at the same time I also know much how good integration work can change that and huge the differences are between the arriving populations.

Its a complex thing that sadly gets dominated by rightwingers and their shortsighted racism. Real culture and islam critique from the left is rare. Just like commitment to protect liberal values even inside a capitalist society.

intended for

???
I wasn't responding to the content of your post, comr8. I was saying you weren't saging right.

i stick out? you are the only one who has flat out argued with my point of nationalism being bad. Others conceded that nationalism is toxic as it can breed from non-violent to violent, and also recognized its an accident of birth. So, for the last time, go ahead and justify nationalism, and tell me why it doesnt breed into violence against others.

Oh, never mind then.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Railway_Package

Not that poster but you're obviously in need of a safe space right now. Many reformists and liberals have set one up on reddit.

...

aha, Im good for now, might go take a breather in my mind-safe-space for a few hours whilst i sleep, but thanks for the advice. i just dont like this guys logic, nor do i like naionalism

youtu.be/IEyBaBEQLM4

THE FIRE RISES

Nationalism isn't bad. At this point it's the only barrier to global capital. I know there are others here who agree with me but just don't bother to say it because they don't want to get banned or they don't feel like arguing with autists like you.

Others in the thread have said the same thing, they just didn't provide any of those delicious (You)s.

Now you fucked up.

It makes sense to want to live with people who are similar to you. What characteristics you use to determine that similarity is up for grabs. But dumping, say, 10 million Chinese people in the middle of Iran probably wouldn't work out well.
People who share your language, your values, etc., are people for whom you, as a human, more easily have a shared sense of fellow-feeling. It makes sense to want a government based on the nation, in order to allow you to live more effectively in peace and prosperity with such people.

Anyway, most of the political opposition to nationalism is just bourgeois politics hiding behind a thin veneer of cosmopolitanism. Industrialized countries don't want workers from poorer countries because of "diversity" or anything else–they want to treat labor like capital: an expendable, inhuman resource that must be utilized efficiently in order to maximize profits.

The left needs a new image.

are you being completely serious right now? If your actual arguement is
"nationalism isnt bad"
im going to go ahead and tell you to just fuck off

So, we're against the Kurds and Zapatistas now?

The problem is that muslim countries hadn't yet a french revolution. They get cucked by western insistance on democracy to really implement secular and liberal values.

When you keep in contact with those countries or import their population you kinda have a reset progress going on with the children of immigrants and newcomers.

What I am saying is that while yes immigration works sometimes, we unfortunetly just have too many cases of it not working.

Also I don't want to see my friends getting even more nationalistic by seeing the goverment continue swarming in refugees.
People who think less about these issues fall in risk of joining a nationalist torture chamber and instead of thinking they just exchange their paroles and mantras without thinking.

I think more people fall risk to that if we finally fucking put an end to that problem, that shouldn't even be a problem in the first place.

...

I'm the guy you've been arguing with. This post is mine. That one isn't.

privatization is nothing I promote or want

free trade is free trade not neoliberalism, which is a shitty ideology that thinks free trade only halfway through and follows the ideal of private ownership of everything and introducing markets to places where it does not belong even in capitalism

The point is that protecting your businesses at all costs, is stupid and hurts your population.

Do you have the first clue about either nationalism, Rojava or the Zapatista territories? Freedom for your people from opression is not nationalism

I'm not a Marxist. I'm a nationalistic syndicalist with some Sorellian influences. I could care less about Marx's dogmatism. Just because he says "nationalism is bad". That doesn't mean I have to necessarily agree.

Ah i see, do excuse me, i am very autistic

Aren't we all.

that same arguement still applies

Also, I'm going to use this flag now to prevent more confusion.

What argument? You just told him to fuck off.

You need to go to that safe space.

Pretty much. He has no argument, mutualist-friend.

i told him that just because hes speaking up, doesnt mean he speaks for others and his idea of nationalism doesnt correlate to others

...

I meant isn't

The socdem has no argument, he only crys in butthurt that many people here dislikes the neoliberal organisation that is the EU.

That isn't an argument, though, that's just semantics again.

this is the issue, that you like to think some nationalist movements are good, and others arent. In my mind, nationalism breeds hatred and so you dont get to pick and choose which is good or bad. I can see how this could be a fallacy, but until you show that you all have the same interpretation of what is nationalism as the rest of the board, and in historical leftist circles, i dont agree with the points you make.

It doesn't mean that I don't speak for others either. You're just assuming that everyone here is a cosmopolitan. Most probably are but there is decent sized minority that isn't opposed to nationalism.

I'm not really defending them. Basically, I see both sides as autistic.
The old forms of violence no longer really apply in making any sort of real change. If the left wants to make an impact through violence, it needs to adapt it's strategies for the 21st century. Cyber warfare would be much more effective than attacking random people on the streets imo. The latter just makes us look bad.

i am a little butthurt, ill give you that, but not that theres splits in the left in regards to the EU. i appreciate that both sides where right to raise concerns, im disappointment that left-leave didnt stop the nationalist rhetoric from taking over the campaign.

Violence is the ultimate source of authority. It's just that mass violence is the only effective type. Individual acts are impotent and counterproductive.

Yes, we should support liberatory progressive revolutions like Rojava where the local people area actually freeing themselves from their backwards culture. Some intervention to support these changes can be good and helpful(and sometimes more than just some, the massive support of the USAF for Rojava is absolutly great).

But we also shouldnt forget that the best foreing aid is giving education possibilities and foreign workers sending money home while also absorbing and spreading western culture. Which is why just importing massive amounts of people is not effective or helpful.

I have no clue though on how you dress this in easy populist rethoric that can influence the politics of shitty capitalist parliamentary democracies without supporting the right wing

Let's come at this from a different perspective.
What kind of (presumably non-nationalist) world order would you like to see? Knowing what you're for, rather than what you're against, could lead to better discussion.

Kurdish liberation through democratic confederalism is way beyond simple nationalism.

Do you actually think that autonomous zones with equal rights and protections for all minorities count as nation states?

Should be "social order," not "world order."

…the moon could be made of cheese. It's not a basis for debate. You just wish to engage in polemic. Please depart for the safe space where there are cookies and anusol on tap.

Well, you're right to a large degree. With that said, cyber warfare is essentially a force multiplier. It turns a small team into what is essentially a cyber battalion assuming they're skilled enough.
With that said, the bourgeois allows a certain degree of violence within capitalist society. They turn rebellion into marketable trends. With that said, violence on a microcosmic scale just causes the left to lose the war of hearts and minds. It is absolutely ineffective and autistic.

please get it through your head that the american empire is cancer and should be abolished

you don't use it to continue playing empire

Tbh they weren't even attacked. Maybe her hat was stolen, but all they got were people calling them fascists and telling them to wank off.

I agree with all of that.

ofc it should be abolished, but all other states should to.

Intervention was more meant in the sense of supporting movements that deserve support, and not just writting off the whole ME as backwards and unsavable

Cyberwar is more than a force multiplier, it also allows attacking without the defender knowing who actually attacked him. This has bad and good sides.

Dont want to clog the thread with my hypothetical and what-should-be's, also because i realised weve gotten quite far off track. I use a Socdem flag because i believe in social democracy and thats the way i see we can make change in society work best for the poor but also everyone else.

So do you also think that NAFTA was such a great idea huh?

That is what free trade is, businesses being able to move their factories to foreign countries(or other European countries) for cheap labour.

This does fuck over its population, and harms immigrants, because jobs they could have are overseas paying immigrants for cheap labor which does not help out their economy at all either. You need protectionism to stop this because it harms everyone.

Well, from a legal perspective that's still defined as a form of assault. Plus it doesn't accomplish anything.

This is also true.

besides, explaining the bottom up re-structure of the political system would likely be flawed in many areas, as im quite drained from the days events and also because im a fucking child and havent looked into structural alternatives and any great detail.

If the means of production were owned by the workers, free trade would be a net positive, without the downside of outsourcing (since no worker-owner is going to vote to put themselves out of work). But until we have that, yes, it's not a net positive for working people.

Alright, have it your way.

Exactly, under our capitalist global economy its pretty damn shit.

tenks bebbie, love ya.
have a monkeyman for indulging my ramblings

Thanks for the Walken, have some of my rare Stirners.

Why should I care that some shitty jobs get transfered from strong economies to workers that need it far more? If we would have a decent social safety net and retraining to better jobs there would be no problem at all.

Cheaper products help millions and bring jobs to poorer regions, at the cost of a few people that need to be retrained to jobs with a higher comperative advantage. If we would have a decent social safety net based on the local cost of living, retraining of workers that lost their jobs due to free trade and a investment mechanism that balances out trade surpluses we actually would have a kind of socdem that could serve as a basis for socialism and communism. And to achieve that level of political integration(for the unified education system, social safety net and workers rights) and economical integration we need the EU.

economyincrisis.org/content/free-trade-fair-trade-whats-the-difference

worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2006/no-1218-february-2006/free-trade-fair-trade-or-no-trade

Free trade is capitalistic and good for porkies, it is not net positive for workers, Fair trade on the other hand IS, learn the difference. This is why neoliberals are heavily against protectionism.

I never heard "fair trade" be used in that context. Where I live its just a shitty slogan to promote ethical consumption by prmosing to pay fair wages. Which is clearly stupid, reforming capitalism by appealing to the morality of people doesnt really work.

But subsidies are a huge problem. They are a kind of protectionism that ruins smaller countries in Africa because the EU exports way to cheap food to them. Tariffs can have the same results: protecting inefficient industry at home, that produces more exspensive products(which hurts a huge amount of workers) while hindering foreign industry that might actually be more efficient but cant get going because the tariffs.

In short we need a politcal union that creates a fair basis of social safety nets, workers rights and education access where we can pull down barriers(which would include excessive patent laws, which are one of the reasons why I oppose most trade agreements) that only hurt workers and stop innovation. This would lead imo to a faster economical development and the often tried but allways failed route of protectionism and trying to build up self sufficient industry.

In socialism self suffiency should and must be a major goal but before that its useless and the economic failures of the Soviet Union many other 3rd world countries make that clear.

Anyway I need to leave

*than the often tried but allways failed route of…

This does not help those regions it actually harms them, did it help the Mexican population at all?

theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/19/globalisation.politics

aka neoliberalism which I dont propose.

I propose that the EU can be a force for better socdem till we achieve socialism and I propose to maybe listen to some economists as long as we live under capitalists instead of crudily planting socialist ideas in a capitalist global market

socialistworker.co.uk/art/42434/Six myths about the European Union
Again it can be done with out the EU, you don't need a even bigger government over another to achieve that.

Let not forget having the EU and your major parties fight against socialism is much worse than just having to fight the elite at home.

They're schizoids who think everybody who disagrees them is all in it against them in a vast commie-muslim-NWO-joo-librul gonsbiracy, and see everything as a zero-sum game. If we are happy they are sad. If they are happy, it stands to their reasoning that therefore we are sad.

read that as 'teenagers'

Ohai non-shill with mershy reaction images that have been in use for the better part of a decade.

I'm going to refer you to Dr. Piccolo, our pharmacist. It's clear you need his help.

trying this hard

Who said I left. m8? I just stopped using that flag because I'm not talking to a Holla Forumsack.

...

Well, you managed to break off from a monstrous undemocratic capitalist organization that was importing massive amounts of immigrants for the sole purpose of exploiting them, not caring about the massive clash that two incompatible cultures would cause ( which they knew would happen, hence why they've been oppressing the fuck out of you with idpol). The mass rapes, the suffering and confused migrants, the alienation that causes radicalization towards anti-modern Islam that justifies executing atheists like me, it's all the EU's fault, their greed and their power madness.

You took a shit in the face of the EU. Good for you. You've done some of our work for us.

There is no beef in that "burger."

for sure