As a leftist, how does it feel knowing that Tories and UKIP represents the working class in the UK?

Disappointed but not surprised.

Mostly it's the Left's fault, for no longer being able to provide alternatives to neoliberalism and for the fact that most of our long-term projects include first going through painful Capitalist reforms that hurt the working classes.

The EU is an example: most leftists supporting it (including me) think it could be eventually be used as a framework for a pan-European system of welfare, labour and environmental standards that wouldn't have the consequences of capital flight and alienation of finance that similar nation-wide reforms would.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Capitalism is a at stage of transition and the Left has been historically impotent in face of changes like that. The Trumps and UKIPs of the world will provide the alternative that resonates with the working classes' short-term interests the most, but soon they'll be disillusioned with them as well.

Well said, have a sad clap.

t. KPD-1932

Well, we have alternatives, but when half the people are reformists and SocDems and the other half conservatives and have both been fed anti-commie propaganda for 100 years…

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM US?

We need to stop repeating that tbh

Because capitalism sucks and this is blatantly apparent.
Labour's for being liberal idiots that just sat on their hands making concessions to the ruling class with their champagne socialism further alienating workers.

>implying incidents like Rotterham weren't repeats of native British fuckery by the Tories

This has nothing to do with race.

Birmingham voted to leave EU, even though it has large Brown population.

The truth is that open border policy is a threat towards that poor and uneducated working class.

I cringe when I hear on twitter when pro-remain people bragging about the fact that people with 4 year degrees voted to remain and people with low education voted for UKIP. Its not something to be happy about, it shows that the working class is moving further away from the left.

Underage b&

Only in capitalism.

To their own detriment.

The left can't take all the responsibility. The working classes have to take some too for being fucking ignorant idiots.

...

...

No, the working class know exactly what their life is like. The fact that their concerns were capitalized on by right-wing populists isn't their fault, it's Labour's fault for totally ignoring them.

They've been alienated from politics for so long it's not a wonder why the hard right looks so good. When you use "fascism" as a boogeyman to beat them over the head with for every little thing it's not long until they decide maybe it's a good thing.

You fuckers are delusional.

But they don't?

It's just that no one protects the workers, and the workers vote according to their fears, rather than their needs.

Truth be told, Labour doesn't protect the workers either, and all the le evil commie propaganda had its impact.

Not only a capitalist project like the EU is built to destroy socialism and workers rights, its completely undemocratic and impossible to reform.

morningstaronline.co.uk/a-155b-THE-EU-ANTI-SOCIALIST-AND-ANTI-DEMOCRATIC#.V26VKeVaJhE

socialistreview.org.uk/404/eu-referendum-should-we-stay-or-should-we-go

The working class has fought and won its benefits in the past and it was the EU itself who took them away. What does the EU have to do with the Council of Europe(47 member states and almost half of them non-EU members), human rights provisions that come through international treaties, Refugee Convention, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Labour Organization or measures won from struggles inside Britain, from the Magna Carta onwards? Absolutely nothing. These laws are British, and would remain without the EU.

There is nothing socialist about wanting more government unless you are liberal or a tankie. You don't need the EU to get these benefits, what you need is the left to lead a strong socialist movement that fights for the working class. Not to abandon them for a neoliberal imperialist super state which is inherently anti-socialist and anti-democratic to its core.

The left in the UK is only to blame.

Please point to the socialism in the UK.
Debatable at this point.

I can't. That's the problem.

Yes, but they don't understand why. They've been lied to by the right-wing media so much that they just don't believe you when you try to explain how capitalism is ultimately to blame. It's much easier and more appealing for them to blame all their problems on muslims and benefit cheats, so those are the issues which they end up voting on.

How do you propose the left responds to this? Should we ignore reality and focus our energy on "fixing" the "problems" they've been convinced to care about, even though we know it won't improve their lives?

Personally I don't think that the answer to a brain-dead electorate is to throw our own brains away and join them in their pointless idiocy, just so that they will support "the left" in name only?

this

Until a significant group on the left is once more willing to fight mass economic immigration, free trade, and the rest of neoliberalism, the working class have no realistic choice other than fascists.

you don't fight immigration, trade and neoliberalism
this is social democratic faggotry that will result in nothing but its continuation
you smash capitalism or in case of britain imperialism
only this will end these things amongst all the other cancers of capitalism
these things cannot be resolved without resolving the class society and exploitation entirely
there is only one demographic of relevance, it's the working class

These are the same center lefts, they use pocket demographics to perpetuate the cheap labor.

As usual, the far left is too busy bickering amongst itself to do anything.

Fighting "mass" migration by closing borders is, well, how xenophobics deal with problems. You need to eliminate the incentive at the source.

Do people really not understand the effects of Mass immigration has on countries?

There are limits, a country can only take so much before it starts to burden the economy and harm the population.

When that happens, you lose the working class to the far right. Then cutting off the source of imperialism becomes impossible.

What you do is spread immigrants throughout Europe so they won't funnel into a few select countries and over burden them, causing fascism to rise.

This does not mean to stop trying to cut off the source of mass immigration. Its all about spreading the burden of immigrants all over Europe.

No amount of "hulk smash capitalism" would fix open borders, at least not until you completed a worldwide socialist revolution, without even the tiniest bastion of capitalism capable of reaching your borders. Nothing short of harsh immigration quotas and trade tariffs would work.

I'm distinguishing between the center left (who are open neolibs/neocons in all ways), versus the far left, where trade protectionism is still PC in many (but not all) quarters, but mass economic immigration is unthinkably non-PC and greeted with bleating hysterical catcalls of "muh racism, muh bigotry, muh nativism, muh refugees, muh colonialism". On the spooky side, there's also an undercurrent of fake feel-good do-nothing humanitarianism mixed with anti-worker white guilt masochism of the sort that matches fascists' worst stereotypes, and infuriates the working class.

This won't work

This also won't work

What must be done is to protect workers who have achieved regulatory/economic victories from more backward foreign economic regimes, while simultaneously fixing the economically "quarantined" areas using foreign aid. Immigration aside, trade tariffs don't even have to be total sanctions, just mandatory FairTrade-style countervailing duties to eliminate regulatory/economic arbitrage. Regarding "refugees", what must be recognized is that there is no reason these people should be allowed to flood into our vulnerable labor market, instead of our powerful economies paying host nations that are economically, culturally, and geographically closer to their wartorn homes for refuge. In fact, the amount of money wasted enslavinghosting them in the 1st world has directly reduced foreign aid to cheaper 3rd-world hosts so badly that the net global number of real refugees being helped has decreased.

>but FIGHTING mass economic immigration is unthinkably non-PC
durr

Of course it won't, I never said that it would, only that it would help momentarily to keep in power and not lose elections to the Far-Right.

Rereading your post, that's indeed what you said. Sorry about that.

Wanna meet up for some fug sugar-tits?

I feel nothing. It's expected.

Propaganda and conditioning, basically. Read some Chomsky.

Every time it's brought up, Holla Forums makes it clear that they're completely complicit in this - they simply do not care because "spooks".

...

Nuit Debout should be demanding a similar referendum in France.