American socialists seem to be divided into two camps: First, that American society was once very good (usually after the Revolution, during Reconstruction, or under FDR) but rightists then corrupted our society. The other camp suggests that American society has always been terrible.
The first line of thinking is particularly common among center-left demsocs, while the second is kinda idpol, because it usually focuses on the hypocritical oppression of women and African Americans in this society.
Which assertion is correct? Was America a leftist society betrayed by authoritarians, or has it always only served the moneyed class?
Nolan Cook
I'd say it has only served the moneyed class, thought shit began to change after the industrial revolution. Though before the civil war Americans were intently religious, so this may have helped cultivate a socialist ethos even at the cost of being mindcontrolled by the bible. But just as America became irreligious, so it became easier to severe socialist tendencies and worship the all might doller. It even got so bad in America some Babtist religions were even preaching that being rich means you have proven yourself to god, while being poor means you are being rightly punished. And that's how religious conservatives formed.
Joseph Campbell
The first assertion is utterly absurd considering the American Revolution itself was just a revolt of landowners and colonial capitalists against the British Crown. Also even if that's not the case, America is built on the back of colonial oppression and extermination of the natives and the exploitation of slaves.
Fucking Americans and their fucking myths trying to hide their nation is built by the most rabid form imperialism makes me sick.
Austin Hill
at least we didn't kill eachother like everyone else did in the old world.
Henry Lee
Great at what? How about music? America has throughout its entire existence been phenominal at making music. From gospel, to blues, to jazz to ragtime, to stride, to marches, to musicals, to bluegrass, to rock and roll, to punk, to soul, to funk, to dicso, to psychedellic, to rap, to R&B, to grunge, to half the metal genres, the U.S. has been extraordinary, even more so than Vienna ever was. Historically, America is the music capitol of the entire fucking planet in a walk.
Politics, though? Not so much. I mean, they had one of the earlier bourgeios revolutions, but that was the extent of it.
Gabriel Foster
The United States' origins were radically leftist…. for the standards of the time. We can't apply modern standards to the 18th century, because many post-1848 ideals just did not exist. Liberalism was, after all, a far left concept in the 18th century.
The problem of America is that it's become hardly more progressive since 1781. While liberalism was expanded to become more egalitarian, and while the interests of the worker are now somewhat better-represented, we still adhere to an 18th century document meant for a society in which only the interests of moneyed white men were considered relevant.
Dylan Baker
What the fuck are you talking about? Fuck yeah, we did! The Civil War is still the bloodiest conflict in American history.
Christopher Rivera
While this is somewhat true, the society that the revolutionaries wished to create was pretty radical. They could have absolutely preserved the aristocracy present in every other republic (Venice, Florence, the Netherlands) but instead insisted that American society would be as liberal as feasibly possible, being based entirely on material hierarchy with no vestiges of feudalism.
Washington was pretty apolitical, but developed strongly meritocratic convictions. He shut down the Society of the Cincinnati pretty damn fast, because he feared the American upper crust turning into the royalty they fought to free themselves from.
Ethan Wilson
IMO capitalism is inherently more ethical than feudalism. American imperialism is fucking shit, but not in the same weight class as the non-capitalist imperialism of the Nazis, Imperial Japan, or Spanish Empire
