Basic Income and why it is bad

There will never be a world where people have their basic needs met automatically and still retain freedoms worth living for.

Because you refuse to build it.

When this happens you will have no rights anyway. The government or (((they))) will control every aspect of your life through technology. You wont be spending money on anything that is unhealthy, deemed a potential hazard, mean or potentially hurting the Environment.

What makes you human is your life in the absence of technology or the mastery of it.

How do you figure?

It will never happen, you will never have a world where basic needs are met automatically AND you have freedom. It cannot happen and if it starts to be built, and events show I am right, I will destroy your safety

Nobody is going to give you that (basic needs met) without you renouncing your freedom. I'm not even a libertarian this is just obvious. Look at neets or welfare slaves today you jackass

I have no safety anyway. I lived near poverty most of my life.

Cheers.

Fuck off nigger, NS has two parts, and the SOCIALISM is important too.

Any income is slavery.

Capitalism is in reality a modified form of slavery - only you choose where to work and what to spend.

This changes very little.

We are increasingly moving toward a world of total abundance. The traditional ideas of state don't apply in such a world, because they revolve around the concept of scarcity of resources.

So, if you are so certain, create a state that can handle the eventual scenario where automation creates total abundance without labor, making both labor and goods near worthless.

Right, such a state doesn't fucking exist because people have been racking their brains trying to create one and failing. Basic Income is being suggested as basically a way to kick the can down the road a bit and try to come up with a better solution. Basic income isn't a good solution to the problem, but there currently IS no solution, so the only option available is just to delay the crash while trying to come up with something better.

my fucking ass

TPTB have been doing everything in their power to prevent it.

This is not an exclusively NatSoc board.

Fuck off lolberg.

this.

plus i was thinking this .

but we all know they won't give us shit for free.
especially when there are niggers having a fertility average of 6-7 children each and making the population explode.

Thanks for the allowance, government!

This is wrong. Welfare as it exists now creates dependency on the government by discouraging work. Basic income would be given out regardless of how much you earn eliminating welfare traps.

1500€ is way too much and these ridiculous amounts are proposed by people wanting to sabotage the movement. Half that is much more reasonable and realistic.

Minimum wage laws still exist.

Basic income would not be allotted on an individual basis.

There's already more "money" than there is physical cash so no. Cash would not be abolished.

The real problem with basic income is that giving our lowest income citizens cash would be a de facto tax cut for them, to the point of completely nullifying their tax burden in extreme cases, and it would do so at the expense of (((the top 1%))). Remember it's trickle down economics not Hitler's 25-point NSDAP program (we demand a division of profits of all heavy industries).

It's subsidizing niggertude.

How would it reduce the scope of government by putting literally everyone on welfare?

Look at it from differnt angle. It will bankrupt system faster.

everybody gets x money

there's no qualifying, no adjustments of status, no determining who gets it or doesn't, no "jamal just had another kid, how much more does he get?", no investigating possible fraud (well, far less), and so on

Fuck off leftie.

I don't think we'll get to basic income for everybody before jews/psychopaths get taken out of power

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It's administering a program with 300 million people in it. Only a libertardian could believe that would make for a smaller government.

basic income arguments are like religion arguments

there's always a few blind tards in them

always sounds like a pacification scheme to me
the ultimate form of bread and circuses

Where under NS has there ever been basic income?

well, if people didn't have to work all the time, they could pay more attention to everything else

That's not how it'd work. If everyone gets +$X, the price of everything goes up to compensate.
The proper solution is bringing back soup kitchens. It lets people survive (keeping them from going criminal to survive) but gives them no spending power whatsoever. It also forces them to frequent these places which could have mandatory work training and rehabilitation.

Basic income is slavery
You're forcing working, industrious people who are productive to pay for the hippie lifestyle of those who are idle and lazy. Now, the left would argue that everyone gets a piece of the pie, but what they don't mention is that this pie is being baked by the working classes, who work for a living. Stealing money from them and giving it back to them is just a slight of hand to distract from the fact that money has been stolen from them and given to leftist losers.

The people who lobby for basic slavery, are professional con-artists, far-left activists, who have dedicated their lives to dude weed lmao and smashing capitalism.

We are increasingly moving toward a world of expensive and ever-decreasing petroleum. The total abundance you speak of, the automation, the reduction of labor, the move towards a total lack of scarcity - it all depends entirely on cheap portable energy.
Notice that after each boom bust cycle in recent history, the economy contracts. Wages have been flat since the 70s. Two incomes are now required to support a typical family. Workforce participation is dropping but is being masked by manipulated unemployment statistics in order to stymie panic.

All of this is due to the steady erosion of the global productive capacity, the so-called "global economy", due to oil shocks. Oil price spikes, businesses go under, demand falls, oil price drops, economy starts going again, demand rises, oil price spikes, etc.
Think of a waves steadily eroding a shoreline.

Oil is a liquid fuel with unmatched energy density. Look up "EROEI" figures for various energy storage mediums. Nuclear might tide us over, but you can't put a nuclear reactor in a plane or a motorbike.

What will happen when the energy requirements of this automated post-scarcity world you dream of can no longer be met?

Yes, the increased demand for goods would increase prices. It would also pressure businesses to increase the supply of goods to match demand and drive economic activity. Reducing unemployment.
Opening soup kitchens creates demand for the things that go into soup.

When automation rolls in and replaces us by the truckloads, then we can talk about basic income.

Demand is a result of productive economic activity. Anyone can spend money, but that doesn't increase demand in the economy, because it is dependent on an increase in productivity. Demand does not drive economic activity.

What goes up is demand for cheap consumer goods that can be bought for the amount of money that is being redistributed. You'll see an increase in the price of food, shoes, cigarettes and all kinds of garbage, because when you don't have to work for your money you don't have the same attachment to it.
People would blow their basic loot on things like talking shoes, sunglasses with cigarette holders and trash like that.

Only niggers think that the death of scarcity means anything.

Basic income needs to be debunked now.
It is a very dangerous idea, because it is so appealing to the idiots who think that they can get something for nothing. The only people who are ringing the alarm bell are some thinktanks that nobody has ever heard of and a few libertarian organizations. We need to talk about it and arm people with the necessary information to destroy the left-wing narrative that basic slavery is the answer to all of our problems.

It should be obvious why it is a bad idea, but the left frequently confuses the issue with the robot boogeyman. "B-But everyone will be unemployed and homeless" nevermind that we've had thousands of technological leaps that destroyed entire sectors of the economy. Horse breeders, bookbinders, secretaries, accountants, farmers, these were all jobs that were destroyed by technological innovation, but the creative destruction of the market always creates new jobs and should the total robot takeover ever take place (it won't), we wouldn't need basic slavery, because everyone already has robots slaves.

Only niggers think that there is such a thing as "death of scarcity"
We do not live in paradise and we never will, we'll always have to struggle to survive, probably less as time goes on, but the struggle never ends, because our universe is not a place of abundance.

Even if you are pro or anti basic income, I feel like it's very irrelevant to talk about it when the interest slavery still exists.

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There is two versions of it:

You remove all kind of welfare and divide it between all citizen: this favor the working man and the family but welfare queens actually get to look for a job.

You give a liveable wage to everyone: You have to raise taxes by 200% and hope people will continue to go to work.

bunch of burgers here

welp wtf happened here.

I meant

And somehow Holla Forums sees this as a bad idea

Good for tyrone, but only fair system is that nobody gets gibs. Disagree? Well.. deal with the people that will never stop disagreeing with you. Never ever

Wrong. Reducing the number of people needed by the compangy to meet the demand.

If the workers have a guaranteed livable wage, why would they come here? You would have to give them a lot of money, and as you said, to a lot of people.

What do you think is going to happen to the prices?

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One, of the many, problems I have with it is that if the relationship between unemployment and the workforce does not stay constant or the workforce increases, the unemployment will sooner or later go go exponential.

Basic income almost passed in switzerland, one of the most educated countries in europe.
It's not just "burgers" who are falling for it.
This is going to be a major campaign issue in all kinds of countries in 2020, 2022, etc.

Kek. Also, NatSoc is neither left nor right. Now go fuck off to /liberty/.

the whole concept of civilization is based on some form or other of slavery

there are jobs that are by nature very unattractive but vital to keep the society functional, some of these are hard to automate
think garbage men, sewer maintenance, road construction, butcher assembly line worker
even with automation you still need people there and some things resist automation because they cannot be standardized
nhow few people with a functional brain would voluntary choice these careers, so society plays a sick stageplay on them by using the power of suggestion and wageslavery force the lower half of the iq distribution into them, all the while thinking they made their own choice
it is a bit cruel but utterly necessary to keep civilization running
with this proposed basic income scheme you remove all these illusions and now you don't have people filling this jobs anymore

that was reason 1, why it would fail, reason 2 woulod be goverment incompetence, of everybody got 1500€ rent and basic necessities would rise quickly to follow suite, thus forcing the government to raise the BI, thus raising rents
you are stuck in a never ending ride, like now only much faster, for a single autartic nation this could work but for a real world application international trade would get BTFO due to massively devalues of all currencies

in short the general largesse experienced today is still based on third world slavery in the mines of africa and south america and wageslavery in the foxconn factories of china
there simply is no solution to the current problem, save less people to share more resources with

Go back to leftypol, you godforsaken communist drone.

It also happen to be a real democracy where the people have a real political power. And education, like you said.

They said no.

And the money would come from…?

I think you mean, anti-Semitic Christian/heathen

The aryans are a working and exploring people. The most un-aryan thing would be basic income.
As I see it only burgers and communist can push for basic income.

Eventually it boils down to a point if goverment has any responsibility about its citizens. For muricans its ofc totally unheard of but its rather nice here when you dont die to serious diseases because treatment costs too much and everyone has equal chance to get degree.

Totally understand why its not possible everywhere, but rather than barking at the system america should just gas the nigs.

People have been literally saying this for centuries. Whenever an industry goes bust another one springs up. Maybe we'll all work 20 hour weeks or whatever, but the sort of army of robot slaves won't materialize for at least hundreds of years. Robots can't even pick berries, they can't even clean my floor properly. The state of robotics is a total disaster, which is one of the reasons why there'll be plenty of employment for a long long time to come.

You mean, the Latinos, the Celts and the Scandinavians, right?

Politics is history in the making. History itself is the presentation of the course of a Folk's struggle for existence.
I deliberately use the phrase struggle for existence here because, in truth, that struggle for daily bread, equally in peace and war, is an eternal battle against thousands upon thousands of resistances, just as life itself is an eternal struggle against death

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You are a dumb drone if you think people aren't dying of diseases, because of government programs.
The government is driving up the cost healthcare everywhere, they've made quasi illegal to develop and markt drugs, by imposing billion dollar legal and research obligations on medical companies. Read a book.

I don't give a shit about the leftypol shills in this thread.

They've already admitted in their little hugbox that basic income is nothing but a scam by NEETs to do nothing all day while playing videogames 24/7 AND living in luxury.

If there's no incentive productivity goes down.

I don't believe for a second that anyone who advocates this human turd has ever picked up a single picture book on economics or passed puberty.

Hey gyus, why wouldn't we give 2,500 € per months to any Swiss or anyone living in Switzerland?

I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I agree with you for the most part.

Well, on the issue loans you are obviously allied with communists and marxists, because they too believe that demanding payment for financial services is evil.

this has been misinterpreted
the industrial revolution didn'tt displace human labor it displaced animal labor

while the IR made cottage industry unfeasable it actually added more human jobs in city factories, although uncomfortable, without those jobs all those plebs that worked them would have starved and europe faced another population crisis like the 13th century

of interest is the fate of the animals, while beforehand many, many horses existed to supply labot after the IR the only horses left are the pretty docile ones used as pets for girls, or the absolute top performing ones as racehorses
now for these horses life is pretty good, they have better treatment than the lowest rank of people, but today only a tiny fraction of the horsepopulation is left, horses were btw the lucky ones draft oxen completely disappeared due to useless nowadays

and with that you see the future of humanity, don't frame this is capitalism vs communism, at this stage these are outdated concepts of 19th early 20th century factory labor, we are now going beyond them and nobody knows how to deal with that

I shouldn't need a basic income. There ought to be a good system to help everyone out and get them to work, but not basic income.

without cash a very small (((group of people))) own you.

My point is that there is no unemployment wave coming. There's so much work to do that everyone could work for hundreds of years with or without robots and there would still be more work to do. It never ends this shit.

I would argue the opposite. These kinds of idéa is exactly what the (((intellectuals))) comes up with and poison the minds of the "regular" people.

I was saying that there would be an unemployment wave if we started with basic income if the workforce does not stay constant or the workforce increases.

What animal labor replace originally? Human labor.
Animals didn't cause massive unemployment, the industrial revolution didn't cause massive unemployment and the robot revolution won't cause massive unemployment either, because every time technology advances, the type of work we do changes, not our need to work. There will always be work.

Whole argument is pointless because people that are willing to give into this shit will always be smacked the fuck up by people who are not willing. Given some time, always

I have yet to see one marxists/communists talk about this. I would even argue that if they did find out about this problem they wouldn't be marxists/communists anymore.

Demand is a byproduct of productive economic activity.

The more money people can spend on something the more it will be consumed. This increases the prices for the product because of its limited availability. The increase in price incentivizes more production of it because it's now more profitable to do so. This means more workers will be employed and have money to spend on it.

Spending money is what demand is. No one buying a product means there's no demand for that product.

Does producing a product mean that it will be sold? No.
Does producing even more of that same product mean it will be sold? No.
What an increase in productivity will do is lower price due to oversupply. This means that more workers will be able to spend on your stupid trinket, increasing demand.

Ok so demand will go up with consumption and everything you said above about demand being a result of productive economic activity is wrong? Got it.

Yes food and shoes are things that people would spend their basic income on. That's the point.

What are the things that you would spend your basic income on? Why is it different for everyone else?

I've been ignoring the whole robot taking your job thing but it's going to happen. One day soon a computer will be as smart as you and will be able to do everything you can and on that day there will be zero reason to keep you employed in any field.

The industrial revolution caused a lot of peasant to get out of job. By chance, in the towns, the factories were hiring.

They talk about it all the time, you probably didn't notice it, because they believe in free shit in all sectors of the economy, not just the financial services industry.

All they talk about is the purity of ideologies from the 19th century and where degenerates should take a shit.

Show me.

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There simple isn't enough that needs doing. We only have to keep everyone working now because we have such a shit system in the first place. The lower the percentage of people who need to work gets, the more this is going to be a problem. If only 25% of our population would need to work, 75% need to be kept occupied artificially. Isn't this precisely what has happened? The hundreds of thousands of new jobs as waiters and waitresses is nothing but slavery to justify keeping people alive on a pittance.

Fuck basic income, but let's see the truth for what it is: we cannot keep this up. No artificial market will ever last. We don't want this, we don't to work, we don't like our communities but we still have this outdated idea that we must have full labor market participation at all times. Ridiculous. Tell me, what could possibly be so important that we need all the good white people of the west working 40 hours a week towards its end? Fuck off, it's (((them))) getting us to play along with a false economy.

Go back to reading books about chemtrails and how climate change is all faked.

ah yes i forget about the roman mounted divisions where their cavalry rode niggers into battle
some labor cannot be done by humans cost effective, it is not about the amount of labor it is about the feeding and housing of people
short example in the past they used horses and cows for labor why, these where machines that turn undigestable grass into manual labor
if human grain fed labor had to till the fields the productivity in EROEI would be qutie bad

once again a misconception, farm mechanisation didn't happen untill late into the IR, a clothsmill or coal mine powered by a steammachine did not displace a single peasent from tending crops and livestock, in europe at that time their was a population expansion, this was the driving factor for people migrating from the rural areas to the cities

My job is to prevent this kind of machine to plant. I sincerely doubt I will live to see this.
Robots are just more effective tools, just because your hammer can work faster dosen't mean you don't need someone to hold it.

Once we have robots everywhere, we will live in large homes, eat delicious food and take vacations half of the year, but we will still get a job.

You don't see a problem with this analysis?
If everyone becomes- or is able to become- a NEET, then wages will have to rise dude to labour's increasing scarcity.

There is so much bad economics on this board

Then where does all the stories of peasants who couldn't keep up with industrial farm machines and who had to live in extreme poverty or to move to the city come from?

Spending money does not create more jobs. Neither directly nor indirectly. What creates more jobs is an increase in producivity.
Increasing the velocity of money, simply means that supplies will be depleated quicker, if there's no increase in productivity.
We know that there's no increase in productivity with basic slavery, because it actually disincentivizes people to get a job and work.
There will be more demand in certain sectors of the economy at the expense of overall demand.

Basic Income is just another dysgenics program.

I'm not even allowed to build my own community or care about myself because the fucking economy is more important. Everything is about money. Nothing about me, my community or my people matters. Almost every part of the economy is now part of some conglomerate and all that matters is efficiency for its own sake. It's disgusting.

fuck you

Maybe unemployment went down and wages went up even as jobs were moved around.
Usually jobs move around even more when the economy is doing well and unemployment is falling

the IR began in 1800
the first commercial fuel driven combine harvester hit the market somewhere 1900-1910

you had the IR people move into factory jobs, technology takes of, people with factory jobs produce fancy new equipment, this equipment causes displacement of jobs in agriculture
there was a takeoff period of a century here for society to adapt, we are moving a lot faster now

To the fucks that are already basically on disability from age 18 (there are a lot of them), it's life or death now. I agree with you except this, these autists have made it real for themselves and for them this is life or death already. They will shill to the end and they are not few

Demand (overall demand) would go down, but demand in areas that serve the underclasses would go up.

Being so economically illiterate (or ill-intent) to know that free market cannot exist, and that if a government doesn't have control over it, (((private individuals))) will.

Now they are going full retard. I guess i should work 12 hours a day, every day for some kike, while being overproductive (and getting sick in the process) so i become truly free?

Having time and energy for yourself (so you can improve yourself, help out the society (which is not profitable by default, so no private business will touch it)), AND for raising your family is slavery?

Basic income is good as long as the society is racially homogeneous and has soft eugenics programs. You can always put exercises, education, or helping out your volk as a requirement for getting it.

Nobody forced farmers to move to the city. They did it, because there was more money to be made.
Farming is hard work.

If a government monopolizes the use of force, then a free market is perfectly possible.

It didn't started with modern harvesters.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Either you work for yourself and your family or you parasitically feed on someone else.
We know you are a parasite and the exterminator is coming. We see you, comrade.

If spending money does not create jobs, directly or indirectly, then the opposite must be true as well. Lets pretend that everyone stops all spending. What happens in this hypothetical scenario?

Why does productivity increase?

You got it wrong.

Borrowing money and spending it does not create jobs as it just move the jobs from where they would have been to where they go.
Then, you have an artificial economic grow, also know as a bubble.

People would barter with each other. Money is just medium of exchange and a way to better calculate economic transactions.

Basic income is such a kike idea. It goes in the same category as communist. It lure the unknowing mind with false promises and ends only in destruction of the folk and the wellbeing of the (((chosen ones))).

Actually "free market" capitalism is a dysgenics program because it turns everyone into a kike. It destroys social cohesion, promotes degeneracy (because degeneracy is most profitable), petty materialism and mercantilism as the highest values. It's also a lowest common denominator system, so it's never about achieving greatness or actually evolving, but for turning people into mindless economic animals (cattle, goyim).

Because this is 19th century, rite?

I can't believe retards are actually shilling for working all day when there is realistically zero need to do so, due to technological abundance. Of course, parasites and petty sociopaths like yourself feel a need to have control over people, because you are essentially subhumans and crypto-kikes.

The economy is not a person. It is not a god. It can never be free because it is a game, and all games will be figured out. The "free market" is an excuse for men who secretly want to sit on the throne instead of the Jews who currently hold the reigns.

reading shit like this (and the idiot he's replying to) just makes me angry with your quibbling. Stop regurgitating your college textbooks at each other you fucking mongloids.

This is entirely it. They still want to have domination over others, and by setting up a complicated system they can find an excuse to do it. Oh no, I'm just really smart and deserve to be a winner. Look, my sy-I mean, the economy says so!

Utter sociopaths.

Show me.

Free meals still don't pop out of thin air. The government take money form the working men and give you a check and with that you buy a meal. This is completely different.

i reversed image searched your picture which you gave without context

the sources is a site for rural french fotos and dates that particular one to 1897
so i guess you proved my point
sauce: photos.linternaute.com/vie-rurale/?tri=1&page=9

Just because our current trainwreck of an economy is inefficient doesn't mean we should give up all hope and just keep working for it in the hope it fixes itself.

We are capable.

Are you a Jew? Because you're not willing to hear his argument at all. He is trying to paint a different context wherein basic income might be possible. You are ignoring his context and saying look, look, our entirely Jew-run economy sucks, so clearly we all have to break our backs for 60 hours a week to make a loaf of bread.

Fuck you.

Basic income is nothing short of full-blown communism and state control of all life.
You are dependant on the hand that feeds you. If you are obedient, you will live, but if you rebel, your lifeline will be cut off. This is slavery.

The first patent for that machine is from 1834.

Our current economy got us out of misery, gave us space travel, 80 year life expectancy and computers.

We can work, the point here is why should the working men work?

If only we agreed to work for free, NEETs could have more autismbucks. It's such a shame "cultural capitalism" is rooted so deep in our minds we won't work for you for free.

No one was talking about free market capitalism, faggot. UBI is a dysgenics program, stop deflecting.

DUDE, FREE SHIT LMAO

No it didn't. We got ourselves out of misery. NASA and German rocket engineers gave us space travel. Computers are the work of a tiny proportion of brilliant minds. YOU had nothing to do with any of those things. Your terrible, JEW-RUN economy had nothing to do with that. It did not enable them. It only hindered them. We are not dependent on the economy to decide what to do with ourselves.

Instead of basic income the government should offer basic work. Can't get a job? Clean/build/fix this building/road/park and you get your cash. Hard work, but you don't starve and it isn't a handout. If you won't work for society, society shouldn't work for you.

You're intellectual trash

Whatever you say. Go live in a wood if you think it would make you safe of the big evil economy.

I can see clearly and you don't like that, don't you?
It doesn't matter to me whether you suck on my neck for a second, a minute or an hour.
You are a vampire and i will drive a stake through your heart.

Society is already telling us exactly what work we are and are not allowed to do. If I want to work for society, I can become a waiter.

The sole fact that we need to work more than we did 50+ years ago (there are even studies showing that modern man works more than a medieval serf!), despite all the technological advances, means that there is some serious kikery and parasitism going on. And it's not even about money and net wealth anymore (which is entirely, and completely relative), it's about control over other people and nothing else. There are zero rational reasons for hoarding money past certain point, it's pure psychopathy and kikery.

Not to mention that the kikes want you to be too busy working all day and surviving, so you cannot think, improve yourself, or raise a family. Basically, so you cannot challenge them.

Remove the parasites, and you will need to work much, much less even with basic income. And you will get more income for working, so you can afford luxury goods.

Technology is eliminating the great majority of the workforce, and it's a fact. Basic income means there will be less people competing for your job as well, so you will be able to get a higher salary.

Basic income - enough to survive and nothing else. Most people would like to have more, therefore they would work. Except niggers, but that's why it has to be racially homogeneous.

I'm not that person. Stop trying to read people's minds.

If everyone had enough money to live without working then nobody would want to work. In order to make work profitable you'd have to make your products expensive so that you could pay people to work for you while having profit yourself.

Basic income means either inflation or neet life for anyone that can live that kind of life and we all know that shitskins can multiply in crazy numbers in shit conditions so basically they'd live off the system and be even worse than they are today..

Such a system would probably divide the society in two: those who are paid to live and live to spend and those who work and amass riches. The latter owns the former.

In such a system, cash would be an inconvenience. It would be easier and cheaper :^) to pump some numbers into accounts digitally.

To sum it up, in today's society it's a system that fertilizes hedonism and people who can live with the minimum while making them slaves of those who pay them to live.
In society free of degeneracy it might be a good idea, but now, it would be catalyst for our doom.

And where will the money come from? That's right, taxing other parts of the economy. No net increase in demand.
The proper way to go about things is probably to just remove the minimum wage and other regulations which increase the cost of an employee beyond what it's worth to hire.
The economy is more than capable of creating full employment on its own. And the jobs will be doing services for consumers, so you know it's something useful instead of just made up by some bureaucrat

Fuck me how are these plebs even here? Where did you come from?

What sort of faggot goes to an imageboard to not have any kind of discussion with the replies he gets?

When the people are free, they don't get taxed to death to pay an universal income. Here are the choices:

-FREEEEEEDOOOOOOMMM!!§
-A hard day of work will give you nothing, stay home, "others" will work for you
-State slavery

Most of those studies are wrong though user

If I'm right this image will be relevant to the debate, though I don't know what it is

To continue his post, Switzerland needed 188 billions Euros per year for a partial basic income. That is 23,000 euros per year of taxes per Swiss,including children, elders and unemployed.

Where the fuck would it come from?
If the answer is made of droids, then where the fucks are all the droids?

i think that picture is the point, the graph shows hours worked per person

so what we have today is a two tier system: one set of slaves who work ever longer and harder to support class two: who live of welfare
but the overall effect is a decrease in workhours which means everybodys lives could improve by removing kikery from the system

And now the worse part: the working men with personal responsibilities and the sense of family values can't get kids because he is strangled by taxes, while Tyrone can make ten single moms pregnant once more and leave them ans Abdul can come with his two wifes and 10 kids.

Eventually, you don't simply run out of other's people money, you run out of workers.

Investigate

checkmate leftists

And? the market will self adjust to a state where it will be most optimal, unless government comes and fucks everything up like it always does.
[citation needed]

Throughout history there have been numerous times where a large portion of the population suddenly found themselves without the level intelligence needed to get work. When the next one of these events comes, which is soon, the same thing will happen as it has done all the other times, Darwin will come and take out the trash.

here we go again, the conscious rational all-knowing market which definitely is not your idol will fix itself

Let me state the obious:
You have to work. You have to. There's no alternative.
Tomatoes don't grow themselves, blankets don't weave themselves, cars don't manufacture themselves.

Sitting on your ass collecting basic income redistribution simply means that someone else is doing the work for you and that you are a burden on your family, your community and your country. You will not be allowed to live the life a parasite. Arbeit macht frei.

In it's current form yes. But as i said, it can always be changed into an eugenic program. Of course, you will keep ignoring that.

You sound like a SJW

They are starting to worship market as some kind of deity kek.

The market always fixes things. That's why we have a market place, to fix things. If everything was perfect we wouln't need a market.

That is probably not what you wanted to write.

Let me rewrite my post so you can understad it:
the solutions are
-don't give the working man's hard earned money to deadbeats
-get basic income and don't get any work ever done again
-get basic income+basic work = basic slavery

There's this thing where a man wants to work for himself and his people, not for Jews.

Farmers are also the ones who are more likely to believe in Holla Forums values, so great job pointing out you're supporting genocide against your kind.

For the record, I'm against Basic Income, but pretending that the incoming automation will take care of the cancer of society only is foolish.

OP confirmed for knowing nothing about spending patterns, not even worth my time to read the rest of the thread.

Hahah, so some kike gets to sit there and pick winners and losers? Brilliant fucking idea, Chaim.

The thing about those farmers is that they owned themselves so much more than the laborers did. Farmers didn't just work, they built things. Things like families and communities. Laborers only work.

So basically you're a NEET but the Jews did it?

What are you on about?

WHERE MA FREE MARBLE AT?
SHEEET DA CAPITALIST KEEPIN US DOWN WITH DEM CHISELS AN SHIT
WE'Z AINT GUN CHISEL NO MO!

It's always deadbeats, deadbeats, everyone's a deadbeat out to take muh money. It's blackpill shit. Multiculti-based thinking. We must recognize that our current arbitrary economic game is broken and makes people do work that nobody particularly needed or wanted in the first place just to keep itself alive.

I work for me and the people I consider good. I absolutely do not work for trash.

We will eventually have basic income, and this does not make you a slave. Sure, if evil people ran a basic income world, you'd be a slave, but that's true already, and evil people won't let basic income happen, because they wouldn't have cheap slaves anymore and we'd have too much free time for them to be comfortable.

I think it has some requirements:
-wealth cap (I need another post to elaborate on this; I have what I think might be a really good idea)
-flat tax
-kids dont get it until they're 18
-zero other welfare
-trump style nationalism
-fucking GET RID OF PROPERTY TAXES YOU LONG-NOSED NIGGERS

The benefits are obvious:
-crap jobs now pay well because you get pay on top of BI
-crime is disincentified
-less government jobs pertaining to taxes and welfare
-people can afford to spend more time with their families/communities/art/science/whatever
-more spending money for the economy (therefor creating more jobs for people who want to make and sell shit)
-people can afford to study/train for the jobs they really want
-less useless lazy retards in the workplace (as a forklift operator, I'd love this part, though my job will disappear in probably 10-20 years)

You ALWAYS work for yourself you fucking lazy NEET retard. You work for your PRIDE and DIGNITY; something that jews like you don't understand. That's why jews like you were put into WORKING CAMPS now falsely known as death camps. And on the day of glory you and your kind will be put into working camps again until you do understand what the real fruits of labor are.

What the fuck is this stupid fucking shit jesus christ whoever make this chart needs to kill themselves.

Shitposting on chans is work, prove me wrong faggot. I like how you lolbergs and neocohens got brainwashed to accept only certain activities as work.

Not to mention that Aryans WANT to work, just not necessarily something that crushes their soul and enriches some happy merchant. We want to create.

This is literally

Tier argument. If you weren't some kid leeching on his rich parents, i'm sure you'd want to crush the patriarchy instead.

You know, it doesn't matter what your intentions are. Your insane proposals do not get better just because you pretend to want to help people.
You can call it welfare, you can call it basic income, you can call it social safety, but it remains economic parasitism, even if the host is strong enough to tolerate it.

Maybe % of total hours i

Classic Holla Forums

You can only ever own up to 5 million dollars. Everything passed that goes straight to taxes. However, it's 5 million per day, so if you earn enough that you'd reach the cap quickly on a daily basis, you need to spend a lot everyday, rather than just putting it in a bank account or investments. This means that truly rich people would be helping out the economy and spreading it around rather than hoarding it for themselves. It also limits the powers of the rich somewhat.

I guess living on interest, by renting out property, or buying low and selling high is not parasitism, it's a hard work of chosen people.

What about inheritance, is that hard work as well? :>)

No, no you don't. And that is what the basic slavery issue is about.
You do not want to create, you want to consume what others have created.

If a guy want to work to improve his personal situation or his relatives situation, good for him.

But why should he do it with my money? You want his to work for himself while I am forced to work for him? What if I say no?

Such outrageous amounts of basic income are only to sabotage any basic income movement. Switzerland spent 21.8 billion on social welfare programs in 2014 and has 8.29 million citizens. So right off the bat they can afford to give everyone 200 a month or 2600 a year. For someone in poverty that is a significant amount of money that can be used however they need it. Food stamps can't be used to repair your car if it breaks down and it can't pay for an emergency cavity filling.

Now add the fact that while it's universal not everyone would actually receive money from it. At some point you're going to be paying more than 2600 in taxes.

But people won't vote against that. We can't give the middle class a 2600 tax break while giving people living in poverty 2600 cash. So we propose giving everyone a million dollars so we can all be millionaires and basic income becomes everyone-retires income and the idea gets shot down.

Basic income is a stupid concept, but obviously we don't want citizens to starve either.

I'd advocate an opt in/opt out collection of foodstuff necessities provided by the state. Or a community projects simply organized by the state without direct funding.

And in a nationalistic society receiving it would be considered extremely shameful, so its wrongful use is minimal.

It's stupid. It's so stupid I had to go and extract the actual numbers myself. I was so mad I didn't even realize how fucking STUPID the x-axis labels were. Every single race has to be listed as (Non-Hispanic).

Fucking liberals.

>Not to mention that Aryans WANT to work, just not necessarily something that crushes their soul and enriches some happy merchant. We want to create.

yes

Sav'd

Then it could have a chanc to work. You still need to force the value of hard work in the people, only this way every able man will get a job.

But then, we are left with a question: what will basic income change?

Do you need a safe space? I'm not a lolberg. I'm still figuring out what I believe but it's not that.

No, fuck you. If you can't hold a job, you honestly you can't justify being entitled to anything. I understand support within community, but you don't deserve state support.

I was just pointing out how in the past certain advancements have made large portions of the population unable to find work because they lack the intelligence needed to adapt, and that this often results in large numbers of people dieing. I wasn't saying this was a good (or bad) thing I was just pointing it out.

As for the farmers, my current job is in HPC, I see the future of automation first hand, the jobs typically done by libshits, retards, blacks, and jews will be the first to go. Farmers will be one of the last, but since they own land they will survive because all their farm will be automated. They will watch robots running their farm while they sit on their porch drinking iced tea.

Believe it or not, this is what basic income drones think.

They don't want 2600 per year, how could they live off other's people money with so little? They want it big and if they must crash civilisation to get it just for one year they will.

You don't seem to understand that there are different types of work that depend on your skills and your drive. Of course you prefer to get basic loot, because you have no skills, no drive and you hate work.

not everybody will have jobs in the future
it's already a problem now: not enough jobs for the people we have
so, unless you expect people to just starve quietly, or the rich to just genocide the poor, we're gonna need BI

the weak should fear the strong tbqh

BI is when the "poor" part enslave the working part.

This is how things work:
You unconditionally need working people.
People work only for a personal gain.
Even by working hard, you won't get rich.

This lead us to the conclusion that society canto exist if the non working men is not less than the working men: poor. Get your welfare check and stop wanting more.

yeah, jews deserve to rule

Don't drag Aryans into this. You are not from Holla Forums and your constant attempts to paint economic parasitism as something right-wing and "white" is pathetic.
White people don't mind work. They don't like it, but they don't mind, because they understand that there's no alternative. Arbeit macht frei.

the working part in this case will be robots, btw

you fucking idiot

basic income means eternal childhood

struggle and strife are the foundation of ns

Without at least 3 paralysed limbs, you don't qualify for that.

Sorry aspies, you have to collect trash 40 hours a week for minimum wage now.

No, fuck you. You really want your people to starve?

What if there's no jobs available? What if you're simply not qualified?

State's job is to take care of its people. Of course it should render people to be as employable as possible, but there will always be unlucky ones.
It's not about being "entitled", it's about having a duty towards an individual of the common society.

If you wanted to create something, you'd just do it and not complain and whine about it on Holla Forums. You are not a creator, you are the opposite. You are of your father, the devil.

People wouldn't starve if they don't work. That would seriously reduce the labor market pressure. Those that work will get higher salaries and better work conditions instead. And they will still have more money and higher social status than those that don't work, so they have an incentive to work, even if they are materialistic subhumans.

But it only works if you are not importing millions of niggers to create additional pressure on both the social net and the labor market. Or if you are not letting your companies to outsource to other countries.

Liberal economy is a death spiral. Economic right, and social left both benefit the feudal kikes and fuck up everyone else.

Oh, now there are different types of work, are they? But only making money for other people is work, you need to make up your mind my man.

Stop projecting your parasitism on me. I bet i have more working hours than you do. And more skills as well.

In 2100 why not.
In 2200 possibly.
In 2300 probably.

For now, if you want the basic income you will have to build your own droid yourself.

I think there are two ways basic income could work:

*At present, add all state spenditures for social services, aid, etc and divide it by the number of people, give them that and spend nothing on anything anymore. This might seem drastic (and it is) but it has a few upsides, the bigger one is efficiency. Only a fraction of the money the state spends actually arrives where it is needed, a significant part of it is lost in boureaucracy, corruption, misalocation, etc. If you just give people the cash you guarantee that 100% of it will be available to them to use it as they see fit, and if they spend it on booze and hookers and they have no money for food or medicine later then you can in good conscience tell them to go fuck themselves.

*In the future, automation might make manpower needed for production of goods and services approach zero, then there would be abundance and at the same time no way for common people to partake in it. In this near-post-scarcity situation a basic income would be a way to keep things going in the period of transition to actual post-scarcity.

if you *just* want to create, you're an autist (and a jew tool)

technology advances at a faster and faster rate
it won't be 2100, it might be as early as 2030

projecting.

I've said repeatedly I think basic income as proposed is shit. It's that you can't have this tough shit attitude when you know it's not about working or not working, but having self-determination and sovereignty. You're basing your thinking off of an orchestrated economy when the immense progress the Nazi's made during the 1930s is a prime example of getting shit done the right way.

Muh singularity.

Once we have it, we will discuss BI, I promise.
For now, we wait.

then quit shit-talking it like OP

Removing the niggers in a thing, but you are left with transniggers.

Your idea can work only if every one have a job = pay and receive BI.

Then my question is: what will BI changes?

What's stopping me from working even if i have basic income? I would just work on my own conditions and not to those of some petty kike. And yes, i would create, because that's what motivates me.

You imply that hunger (and other lowest factors on the Maslow's scale) are the ONLY motivators for work, which shows that you have a nigger mentality, and that you are projecting it on the rest of us.

in the 60's, the US gov't and its adored Artificial Intelligence scientists were convinced they'd have this AI crap figured out in no time. They genuinely believed they'd have fully automated translation machines in a matter of years. They really thought AI was coming. Of course, it wasn't, because they had absolutely no idea where to even start with creating AI. Ever since we've just been teaching computers more and more complex tricks.

For some reason the whole singularity thing has come back with a vengeance. I believe that to many it's a desperate attempt to find some kind of progress and meaning in life. Sadly, no. We can teach computers aspects of AI with much effort, but the singularity is still just as far off as ever.

It was not specified in the example that the same would apply to the disabled.

is to protect the people form external harm. Internal help and support was always primarily coming from within a FAMILY. Your brothers/sisters/cousins/aunts and if the situation warranted it, Church. State support always ended badly - see Rome's grain distribution and the fact that actual citizens did not want to fight and "immigrants" had to pick up the army job.

I understand blood connection with others within a nation, but in a country like US, there is no ethnos. There is no blood and soil and surely not under current cirumstances in other countries where welfare is aimed at single mothers, boomers and gibmedats.

This is an interesting topic to me. I am a futurist and have some insights that might be useful in this discussion. You really need to factor in the exponential rise of technology when you consider long term socially transformative ideas like basic income.

Science fiction has made a good case for basic income in the form of Star Trek. They have a society in which money is no longer a factor. The citizens of the united federation of planets have a level of technology which allows them to meet the basic needs of most of their people, and frees them to pursue whatever goals they might have with the guiding idea that whatever you do should better society or provide some service. This seems to drive most people into the arts like music or cooking, the sciences, engineering and exploration of the universe.

The problems with doing that today have probably been stated pretty clearly already. We don't currently have that level of technology or at least if it exists, it hasn't been used for the benefit of anyone but the globalist elite who are genocidal eugenicists that want to exterminate 90% of humans.

So we are in a transitional state. Technology continues to improve and we can already feel the effects on jobs. Some decades ago, we had a good middle class where people worked in factories. Today those factories have robots doing most of the work. Over the next few decades the computers and artificial intelligences will chip away at more and more jobs. Not just manufacturing, but far more jobs, which people consider to only be possible for a human to do, they will be replaced by programs. You can see it happening on wall street too. Trading algorithms have replaced 80% of the trade floor jobs.

so we have a serious problem. diminishing jobs. If you have 50% of the population with no work, but you maintain a system where you must work to eat, then you will inevitably have a vicious revolution as the starving masses fight for a place in the world.

This is probably the crux of the globalist agenda of mass depopulation. When the elite are faced with the choice to either 'financially support the useless eaters', or to 'depopulate them with war, famine, disease and mass immigration of enemy populations' the elite choose depopulation.

It's egotistical but the oligarchs enjoy their position of power, and if they free the human cattle from financial bondage, then what power do they have? If everyone has a basic income, then how can they exploit the labor of the lower classes?

This is why a third world war is inevitable. The ruling elite have planned it for a century or more and in addition to the planned hard-kill, they also employ a vast array of complex soft-kill methods to reduce humanity.

They intend to fuse with technology and become a post-human hybrid of man and machine that is functionally immortal. This will require vast resources for a very tiny few. Those same resources are currently being used up in vast quantities by people which they consider to be inferior, useless, slaves.

go on

nice strawman you piece of shit

my points are:

1. you might be a special snowflake, but in general, subsidy kills initiative and damages the economy by giving a lifeline to flawed systems, beliefs, and yes, people

2. BI is unsustainable in a competitive world, no matter how many robots you have

3. BI naturally promotes vice, from envy to addiction and degeneracy

weeoweeoweeo you're a cunt

I know most of you on /pol focus on race, but to the elite which I describe, race probably does not matter. It's all about class.

People are essentially baboons. We form a congress, and in that society we have a social hierarchy. There is the alpha baboon who gets all the resources, which in baboon society means all the females, and the procreation rights. The beta males are often attacked, beaten down, and left alone to die of depression.

The human animal operates in the exact same fashion, except we go about it in a more advanced way. The alphas have financial superiority, they get all the resources like the land, the corporations, the mansions. The females are naturally attracted to the money and power of these alphas. They will still want a chad for biological reasons, but they will most desire the mate which has the most resources and keep a breeding chad on the side.

You may feel like you are superior because you are a white American but in the big scheme of things you are a bottom-bitch beta-baboon. To the psychology of the monied-elite, you are all good for nothing, and this is why we face the so called white-genocide.

have you read the rest of the post?

The global elite is not really fond of eugenism. They like to be part of the chosen people ruling over dumb half-monkeys.

Let's put it in a different context.

Current economic productivity (tech level x efficiency optimization level x scale (economy of scale) / divided by resource costs) is so high, that you can get most stuff you buy for NEARLY free, despite all the actual people working there having relatively high salaries and working in good, healthy conditions.

It's not a post-scarcity economy, but it's pretty damn near there.

Now, why are the prices so high, and salaries and working conditions so bad on the other side, and the gap keeps getting higher? Because of the parasites, the middle men. And they are not only leeching on everyone, they are actually creating bottle-necks in productivity with their kikery, so the economy (as a whole) is much less productive than it can be.

And they have created a very complex economic system, so they can fool the dumb goyim that they actually deserve what they get.

One of examples is interest slavery (usury), another is buying up an entire living block so you can jack up rent prices, third is being a "publisher" that takes 90% of the revenue of some artist.

And a special example are government parasites and "political workers" which additionally tax and leech on already robbed citizen, while working in the interests of the "productive" parasites.

So you get a mutual feedback loop that completely deprives society of it's wealth, it's health, and it's future.

The need of working.

You would know if you had a job that people don't want to work. They are willing to work for a paycheck. Give them unconditional paycheck and see what happen.

If what you said was true, the free market would kick the middle men out of the equation.

The middlemen as you say take more than his share, but as a %age of the total equation, it is not a really big deal.

Your marxism is showing.

I see that you still don't understand how we see the world. You have progress to make.

you're making no sense

how would BI aka more (good goy) government help the situation? by making more parasites?

Have to compete with small local banks.

a>nother is buying up an entire living block so you can jack up rent prices,
Have to compete with smaller actors.

Now have to compete with autoproduction, thanks to the Internet.

And everything you said is true. FOR THE CURRENT MODEL OF BI.

If you actually read my posts, you'd see that i'm promoting something entirely different.

I've already been in a position that i don't -need- to work, but i have worked regardless, because having salary allowed me to afford things which i otherwise couldn't.

And i've also been in a position of a comfy office worker contemplating to become a trash-man, because their salaries are higher and they get hazard bonuses.

(((free market))) is the middle man! It's a system built on false premises that allows kikes and shabbos goys to become a feudal caste that does zero work, and reaps 100% of the benefits. There is no such thing as a free market, it's as much of a ruse as Marxism.

The free market will fix things by forcing employers to pay more for undesirable jobs instead of allowing them to abuse the fact that you either work or die from starvation or exposure.

Right. But lets do a little thought experiment.

Imagine a world where everyone lives rent-free, has food delivered regularly and receives free medical care. That is the ideal. The goal of the basic-income proponents and the Bernie Sanders socialists.

Lifespans would be around 80 years. People would be freed up from work, to have families. The population would grow.

Compare that to the current trend, where the birth rate of most developed nations has plummeted and the perpetual wars have exterminated hundreds of thousands of people in the undeveloped world. This is depopulation at work. If they continue on this path, we may see a population drop in our lifetimes that will be shocking. Especially if they release some lab-made biological weapons. A few little plagues will clear a couple billion people in short order.

Looking at the big picture, historically, this has actually been beneficial. The black plague eliminated 70% of Europeans. This benefited humanity on two levels. First it promoted strong genetics because the weak died and the survivors had a natural resistance to disease. second it had a massive impact on society, because with far fewer people around, each persons value dramatically improved, leading to a kind of renaissance.

So I'm kind of torn. I feel like the ruling elite are evil on the order of a james-bond villain, but I can also see the logic in a mass culling. I just wish my own head wasn't so clearly on the chopping block.

Actually they don't, because they have enough wealth to use it as a leverage, or simply buy up smaller banks.

Same goes for everything else.

How is that countering my argument? We can eliminate the other middle men in the same fashion.

So, you mean, while being on welfare you choose to go to a job because it paid more, and no you want to switch for an horrible job because it pay more?

Tell me what a free liveable wage would change, there. Would you apply for the first job? What would you ask for the second and who is going to pay at the end?

That's one of them and the most important one, yes.

First, I do agree. But not everyone has two parents and loads of relatives to freeload from.
There needs to be a system for people who lack such family assets in a form of communal help.

You should catch up on your history, friend. The grain dole was just the symptom of the same ill that caused the Roman military to lack manpower; large agricultural estates of the wealthy, worked only by slaves.

Read up on the Gracchi and their planned land redistribution. Caesar was in the process of implementing the same reforms before his assassination.

...

And we want to encourage people to get family values, right? Not discourage them? Right?

Then they are not farmers. They are Masters making sure that their mechanized slaves are doing the work.

We don't insult our intelligence by pretending that the CEO of a building company is a builder himself.

This is extremely hard to make a reality. As the isolated son of ex-pat parents whom I cut off all contact with since my 19th, life has been ridiculously hard. Family and community are not things to take lightly, since the government has its intentions but rarely makes sure it delivers. This is why I consider building communities of people who actually like each other to be worth infinitely more than efficient labor. Social cohesion matters too much.

A black plague could have killed another Da Vinci, Wagner, or Fermi. It could allow some nigger to survive simply because he had greater immunity.

Your premise is entirely wrong.

Depopulation in the white countries is happening by design, because they are too busy "working" and quenching their sorrow by indulging in degeneracy, because the system they live in is completely sick and unnatural.

There is not "too much" of white people, there is too much of subhumans. Besides, population is easily controlled when there is a political will for that. No need for plagues.

But the (((elites))) are afraid of determining someone's value meritocratically, because they are subhumans themselves, and would be the first ones to get culled, if we would do it objectively.

It's not (((universal basic income))) when it's not universal. The fit don't need (((basic income))), only the unfit do.

i haven't read your posts, you replied to me

i was talking in an NS context, where racial consciousness is thriving and the JQ is thoroughly understood

in the current system, where parasitism is the name of the game, BI would do little more than accelerate the collapse

remember, at the end of the day, money is a representation of value; who decides what that value is is key

for the moment, money represents the value of not dying in nuclear hellfire at the hands of good goy america

in an NS society, money represents the value you pose for your people

sure you make some valid points
a plague could have killed Da Vinci, but he had more immunity because his ancestors survived past plagues. White Europeans are significantly heartier when faced with disease because we are all the descendants of survivors.

The system is sick. And I agree it is because of a large parasite class of middle-men and systemic corruption skimming all the value from every system.

This problem cannot be solved though. Humans are what they are. People will game the system, which is why you cannot make an airtight system. It is in fact why our system is designed to be cheated. We have an upper class which benefits from a system full of loopholes designed only for them. The rich pay a tiny fraction of their wealth in taxes while the poor pay in excess of 60% of their wealth, when you factor in all the hidden methods of taxation and inflation. It's human nature, and the people smart enough to figure out how to take advantage will do so.

If the system has safeguards, checks and balances, the people will chip away at them over time until they are gone. For example, glass-steagel, or the end of the corporate charter system.

It would change that people would get higher salaries, better working conditions, and less working hours, and some kike would lose a zero on his trillion account without even noticing the difference. (Actually it would be another shoah, but you get my point)

They buy your new business, and inflate the money so the money you get keeps losing in value, while they keep physical assets and control (which is the only thing that actually matters since money is a meme)

You just got tricked goy.

...

Translation: service and products cost more.

If you want to tax the kike to death, you are free to do it, it is entiely diferent than the BI initiative.

In fact, I always see you, on the left, arguing on how you will spend the money of the rich but I never see you actually taxing him and when the bill come, you have to pass it to the working men.

Nice socialism you fight for.

psychopathy and jewishness are genetic

The fit don't need inheritance, parent's money, or speculation either. And those are all the things that keep actually fit people from thriving. Nor do they need a system that selects people based on kikery, where it is the highest value.

I am not talking about current system, in the current system BI is only buying indulgence until they switch to the next phase of their plan. Current system needs to be crashed with no survivors, with or without BI.

Exactly.

No, it's not human nature. It's what kikes and other psychopaths have defined as human nature, and brainwashed everyone else into accepting it,
neocon or Marxist alike.

see

At this point you are starting to sound like a shill, completely ignoring my points and (((translating))) my posts.

btw i'd be in favor of BI if the receiver is sterilized

The point of Is that everything is nearly free and the joo take all the cake.

Well, the joo do take a big part of the cake, but things are not near free, so BI is still science fiction.

Basic income is BEGGING for welfare leeches, you fucking retard.
Confirmed for Communist

The situation is coming to a head anons, people like Elon Musk see it coming with AI and the elimination of human labor as a factor in modern economics.
Tell me what happens when productivity increases decrease labor demands to the point where there simply aren't enough jobs for the population? Make-work jobs? (((banking jobs))) ?

You create new lines of jobs and you raise the medium quality of life.

Or you get a part of the people living off welfare and you make it suck for everyone.

Not a good idea. Certain people with large amounts money would game that so hard by freezing their genetic material, taking BI, and doing in vitro fertilization later. Or fly to China and do human cloning. Meanwhile everyone else gets to die off.

Pic related.

I'm actually surprised how many Strasserist we have here on Holla Forums. Not that that is a bad thing. Discussion is good and thread like this when we actually make valid arguments against each other is good for Holla Forums.

It is impossible to create a system where people can't find work, fam. It is simply a pipe-dream made up by leftists, even someone with a single-digit IQ can find work that cannot be computerised or robotised. A very basic example would be transport, there is a shitload of money pumped into making a self-driving car but there is no programmer in the world that would be able to account for people driving wrong or unpredictably, incorrect construction of both roads and cars and on top of that civilians and any other living creature or obstacle. For example there was one practice test where the self-driving car drove over someone walking across the street, the car drove away without realising but the recording from the dashcam caught it.

Strasser was a leftist infiltrator

doing what? what kind of jobs when more and more of the manufacturing is done by machines every day? when voice recognition and smarter machines mean that many jobs are going away soon. When self driving automobiles are here and will soon take over the trucking industry.

This is the kind of pie-in-the-sky thinking that got us into this mess.
Tell me when did greed become a virtue in modern society?

Yes, that's what Im getting at.

kek

I don't like basic income for many of the same reasons I don't like welfare and that sort of shit. Makes people lazy and dependent on the government, giving the gov more control of your life.

That said, I don't see an alternative in the coming economy. Automation will put most folks out of work for good. Self-driving cars alone will eliminate truck drivers, bus drivers, and cabs. Not entirely, not at first. But that's a big chunk of people suddenly out of work. And then you've got fast food - robots can cook all the shit perfects, and kiosks can get your order right every time. There's another shitload of people out of work. Then you get into retail, and you've just knocked over half of the workforce.

People say that it will create jobs to maintain these machines. Yeah, it probably will make some. But it'll be one mechanic who does maintenance on all the restaurants in a district, for example. That's +1 job, but you just lost -100 or more. Sure there will still be some human only operated restaurants/stores but they'll be high-end gimmicks and not representative of the average store.

Basic automation technology can replace the majority of work without much issue, and be much cheaper and more reliable than human workers. Later stage automation will be able to phase out even more complicated work. That's less a pressing issue, because either the economy and living standards will be completely overhauled by then or there will be massive unrest with a 50%+ unemployment rate.

Again, I don't much like the idea of basic income. But I don't see an alternative in a world where machines can do almost anything a human can do faster, better, and cheaper.

Venezuela

Hadn't considered that.

TBH though, I'd still like to do the work manually because sitting around doing nothing all day just sucks.

That is where you are wrong, it actually is a bad thing because that means there is leftist subversion at play. Open discussion is nice and all but that still doesn't make it any less of an issue.

some yes, most no…
studies in India showed that many people once the pressure of providing basic housing, food and clothing were taken care of immediately started small businesses or volunteered to keep busy.

Basic income means the government steals your money and gives it to niggers. Just like now, but even worse because it can never be shut off.

Struggle is the essence of life.

If it would give me enough to watch anime all day and eat decent food while allowing me to upgrade my PC every few years, bring on the slavery boys.

I am sure it was pure coincidence.

"We didn't program skynet to kill everyone, it's like sentient or something"
"It was a software glitch that made the irael robots the wells, we'll fix it in the next version"
"That election that was stolen? Well, it must've been some hacker attack or something or maybe a virus"

In the future everything will be blamed on machines. They make great scapegoats.

You are absolutely fucking retarded, there is always the possibility of work. An incredibly easy example of a market that can't be taken over by robots would be the black market, which is actually fairly profitable in Venezuela and manages to ensure many ordinary people a constant stream of income despite not being controlled by machines.

Well, here's how you can make your dream come true:
Move to sweden, kill someone other than yourself (that's important) and check into your personal NEETcave at the police station of your choice.

Any examples of the effects of universal basic income in first world countries? Especially ones with very mixed demographics like the US.

The idea is that almost nobody will be able to find work, regardless of how bad they want it.

So when over half the workforce is made obsolete, you think they'll all be able to find work in the black market?

God's axe is ready.

Every tree that does not produce good fruit shall be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Any bee that does not help build the hive will be forced to die outside of it.

The book the Kiln People covers this topic pretty well and shows how it plays out.

The problem is that people will keep on bree>>7427456
ding even if there's massive unemployment.

The problem is that people will keep on breeding even if there's massive unemployment.

I think we have to look at the need for productivity. The reality is there are just too many fucking people and not enough to be productive at. Half the jobs today are just an excuse to keep employment numbers where they need to be.

possibility yes… probability depends on the economics of the situation. If you haven't figured it out yet dear user it takes money to make money. This little truism doesn't really hit home until you are broke with no prospects of a loan. Far too many people are in desperate financial situations not of their own making but handed to them by (((TPTB))).

Tell me again how un-employment isn't a problem in Venezuela at this very moment.

none that I'm aware of.
It isn't likely to happen any time soon because of ignorant people who think the supply of jobs is infinite.

Because it's communism

USSR communism is still communism

Communism is not a solution to anything. It is proposed by people who don't like the fact that the only way to get people to create value for them is to create value for other people and exchange that value.

Communism is for people who don't want to work or fight, even though working and fighting is all that there will ever be.

Communism is for christcucks who think that after they die they will go to a communist country where no one has to work except if God gives them holy work.

Imagine what happens if you make half of the planet unemployed, do you think there are going to be enough people buying shit to justify buying and maintaining multi-million dollar machines? The company buying them would go bankrupt because it wouldn't be able to keep up in profit to compensate for the investment. There are also jobs where it is practically impossible to create a program that will make the machine operate at an appropriate level to be able to replace humans. Like I said previously, good self-driving cars are impossible due to interaction with unforseen changes in the enrivonment or with humans will prevent it becoming viable. If people wanted to get rid of self-driving cars, they could just remove manhole covers and make small indicators that human drivers would recognise but robots would not, as a result the car would sustain severe damage and during the time it is stuck there, it will not be generating any wealth.

Get fucked commie.

I'm not taking money that could go to my kids and paying other people to do nothing. That's literal cuckoldry.

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Forgot the image

people must create value to trade for other value, cyber-christcuck. Heaven is nonsense, cyber-christcuck.

You have a point in that people being out of work will be unable to participate in the new economy driven by automation and not human labor. But since when have rich business owners cared if poor people couldn't buy their shit? Raise the prices and sell to rich people. There may be some consolidation in the market, but for the most part I don't think they'll be that bothered. They'll still be living comfortably.

What makes you so sure of this? You really underestimate human ingenuity. Self-driving car tech has been improving quite rapidly, and right now is perfect competent under normal conditions. It could spot a removed manhole easier than a human could. They are in many ways safer than human drivers. What they still have problems with, last I checked, was heavy snowstorms and rainstorms where all the shit in the air throws off their sensors. Aside from that though, they're already doing well.

They don't just drive with GPS following predetermined routes. They constantly scan their environment, faster and more accurately than humans can and over a wider range. They can already deal with construction sites, with cones making them make unusual maneuvers. Like it or not, they will be mainstream soon.

this argument is funny. It sounds like someone from 1800 talking about how the automobile could never replace the horse drawn carriage because only a horse can navigate unpaved roads. We don't see too many people riding horses down the streets these days though, do we?

Basic income is a socialist policy at most not a communist one. It does not seek to abolish class structures. Calling everything you don't like communist isn't an argument.

You are naive about the future of AI, most people are. Machines are not unable to react to unforseen changes in the environment, AGI is going to happen and it will demand changes in the way the economy works, denial won't help.

As for the "investment" in machinery: What if machines are produced and maintained by other machines and the raw materials are also extracted, processed and transported by machines, including energy production?
Then the now multi-million dollar machines become basically no-cost.

No it doesn't. Alaska has a basic income, and they aren't dependent at all.

That is a ridiculously high amount. UBI should be enough to get an apartment in a low rent area with multiple roommates, college dorm style. It's not meant for comfort, just giving a basic fallback position so people can take risks by starting new businesses.

Yes, but only in that the minimum wage will be eliminated. This will lead to more jobs being created. Positions like theater ushers and pump jockies at full service stations will return. These entry level positions will have advancement paths that don't require you to become a debt slave.

If everyone doesn't get the same, then it isn't a UBI. Stay on subject.

You are thinking of the current system.

No it wouldn't. And they can get rid of cash even without UBI. That is a tangential subject.

people have a blindspot for exponential advancement. If you read any of Ray Kurzweil's books he explains it best. When technology advances exponentially, you have a long stretch of time where it seems like not much changes, but once you hit the incline, the rate of change is steep.

We're seeing the first part of that rate of change, accellerating now. in the 80's we had PC's, in the 90's we had internet, in the 2000's we had cell phones and smart phones. Here we are in the 2010's and we have the start of artificial intelligence, self driving cars, algorithm based financial trading, virtual reality etc. Once we hit the 2030's you won't even recognize society. The difference between now and 20 years from now will be comparable to the difference between a cave man rubbing sticks together and the industrial revolution.

Rich people's income depends on poor people. Even retards living on minimum wage manage to afford to buy themselves luxury items like jewelry, the amount of value they are capable of affording is what decides the amount of value rich people are capable of affording. If food costed next to nothing, the guy working on minimum wage would be buying other things and driving costs for luxury items for the rich guy through the roof, resulting in the stabilisation of prices which is nothing new, prices adjust themselves based on how much people can afford. And if everything were to be come incredibly profitable as a result of inflated prices, there would be more people getting into the business by manufacturing it themselves. Just because they have no direct ties to each other doesn't mean they have no ties whatsoever.

Previous accomplishments are meaningless when talking about future ones that have yet to even be reached, let alone made viable. People used to think in their predictions of the future that cars would fly just like planes do but just because someone liked the idea happening doesn't mean it actually will.
There are plenty of ways to fuck with sensors, your own example is a simple one, but there is also the creation of false positives. Here is where you can apply human ingenuity, simply knowing how the sensors determine an outcome can allow you to mimic this to make them do what you want. If the car can sense manhole covers then you can make it believe there are open manhole covers everywhere, you can hide existing open manhole covers and you can do a combination of the two to properly fuck with it.
I am a mechanic, m8. A lot of the shit implemented is filled with gimmicks that are VERY dependent on the environment, for example intelligent cruise control systems are actually basic as fuck, all they do is look at the street markings on the road with a camera or two to see if you are travelling straight and radar to measure the distance between you and the closest thing in front of you. That means if you drive onto a dirt road with lots of turns, you have rendered the entire system obsolete.

I get what are you are trying to say, but most of the people who are alive today will be alive in 2030 and all the technology that you envision require resources that do not yet exist or are bound up in existing technology. There are a lot of bottlenecks that will slow down the adoption and spreading of new technologies.

Alaska's example is a pretty good one.
archive.fo/lBw3W

gibs turn everyone into niggers eventually

I just did the math. It would take 1500USD a month here to provide rent for a 1bd1bath, internet/utilities, and decent food. I would happily be enslaved for 1500USD a month.

it would come with prima nocta

You're already paying that welfare money. So go ahead and keep on paying it and enjoy not getting any of it back via basic income.

The elite won't want my 2D waifu

I think the rich are genuinely concerned. Maybe not all of them. There will be those who are just sociopaths and they live in a bubble with no understanding of the plight of the underclass. Some of the financial elite though, they are well aware of the dangerous situation they are in.

Civilization is like walking a tight rope. If you sway a little too far in either direction, you will fall. And civilizations DO fall. There is a balance that needs to be maintained. Right now we have such a chasm of wealth inequality. The ruling elite are making a lot of mistakes because they feel invulnerable. They are not. If we reach a tipping point where the crushing weight of desperate poverty pushes a significant portion of society to become radicalized… it's game over.

Revolutions only require 5% of the population to fight. Real unemployment is at about 20%, and as others have said, What happens when it hits 50%? And it WILL hit 50%, soon.

History is cyclical. The ruling elite caused the great depression and for a few of them, it was a great way to destroy competition, consolidate power and resources, and take everything of real physical value at a fraction of what it was really worth. This caused a backlash though. They did not anticipate the madness of the mob that rose up in anger after their financial shenanigans destroyed the livelihoods of most people.

would you let her cuck you ONCE for $1500/month?

Make it 2k and we have a deal. Everyone is equal but some can be more equal for certain favors ;)

basic income is for cucks CONFIRMED

just name your price lads

No shit. Look at 1900-1950. Some advancements, some major. 1950-1980. Smaller time period, about the same amount of advancement. 1980-1990, same thing.

Then look at 2000-2010. Huge amount of advancement. 2010-2016, even more. The rate of change is accelerating.

I get what you're saying and it's mostly true, but not to the extent you're implying. They may need to make some minor accommodations, but not nearly enough for everyone to enjoy their current standards of living. Not without some sort of massive redistribution tax, like universal basic income. Which like I said, I don't like but I don't see a good alternative.

The only thing I see really changing that is some sort of revolution, or peasant's revolt.

But that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about AI autopilots. They do more than follow lines on the road, they have been proven multiple times to be better and safer drivers than humans under standard conditions, and even in some dangerous ones like construction sites or heavy traffic.

They're already capable of driving on dirt roads with lots of turns. Again, we're not talking about the basic shit they're working into normal cars already. We're talking about true self-driving cars.

You keep talking about just sabotaging any self-driving cars, but what are you gonna do when there's people in them? First of all it won't be as easy as you think, the cars will just pull over or stop if they don't know what to do. But even if you could derail those things at speed, you'd be killing the passengers. I'm sure people could figure out ways to sabotage them but again, what are you gonna do? Sabotage each and every self-driving car you see? What about when there's more of those than normal cars? Your proposed "solution" will only delay the inevitable. Your time would be better spent preparing for that than trying to delay it as long as you can.

Around $1000 a year.

Good example of a national $2000 per month basic income.

To be honest i'd prefer the government didn't provide so many welfare programs and such. Going on welfare is just bad and it makes you feel kinda hollow idk how to describe it.

That's because living like a nigger isn't natural for humans.

I think the crux of the issue is basic income feels like welfare. welfare is basically a bribe to the poor and ignorant, to keep them passive. It does more harm than good.

We need people to produce value in society. Maybe instead of giving basic income to everyone, for nothing. Maybe they could require that people who receive basic income, attend some sort of training program which would give them some kind of useful skill which would allow them to contribute to society, and earn more money than the BI would provide on it's own.

Welfare is a bribe if receiving it depends on the whims of politicians and bureaucrats, so they can threaten it will be taken away if they are not kept in power. If people get a fixed alloted income that can't be taken away then it would have the opposite effect, politicians would lose leverage, the focus would shift to other policies because the gibesmethat would be settled.

It's you Jamal is after, not your waifu

I always keep seeing this bullshit from retards like you that keep trying to shill for self-driving cars because of "hurr durr muh utopia". There is no situation where conditions will be standard unless you have a city built from scratch for the sole purpose of accomodating for these cars since it would require the elimination of all human drivers to work, which would not only be unviable in practice but would still exclude pretty much everywhere else in the world.
Yeah and I am talking about reality. I know very well that there are cars capable of going through turns, the issues start when the road is neither completely empty nor completely full. There are tractors that drive themselves on fields and send SMS messages to their owner whenever they accomplish something. In fact, lots of tractors that you see farmers in are actually driving themselves with the person in them to make sure nothing goes wrong. And that is the thing here, they don't trust the machines enough to let them go unsupervised, each tractor has one driver inside to make sure it doesn't do something wrong.
The only reason anyone would ever pay for a car like that is to transport goods. There may be some retards that are dumb enough to fall for the shilling but the real use for it would be to replace truck drivers, which definitely won't happen.
I was using that as an example for a way bystanders could do so. It's not just ordinary people that would take advantage of it, there are plenty of companies that would have it in their interest to sabotage their competition and what better way than to destroy a piece of technology that cost them fuckhuge sums of money to buy that won't have any proof of their involvement? Then there's insurance fraud, people that know how those systems work could definitely take advantage of a machine they can predict with complete accuracy. A tractor on the field would be difficult to get insurance out of but a self-driving cab would most certainly be a fountain of money. Then there's people that would destroy self-driving cars for the sole reason of destroying them and people pissed off at the company that either has taken their job away already or is planning to if the self-driving car does well enough at its job.

Basic in come will be needed, but SHOULD NOT be administered by the government, but by Corporations.

Specifically, robot sponsorship. You own "stock" in a robot, and that robot works for you and you are paid a wage from that robots labor. For example, the robot will be able to work 24/7 365, so the company could pay you 8 hour of the robots labar 7 days a week, and the company would gain 8 hours over a normal human shift. Win win.

The government would just be sure the corporations paid up.

Great, so you are a slave to corporations.

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Why do people keep falling for this shit?
No, the gibsmedat problem will never be settled. Why? Because no matter how high you set the monthly gibs amount it won't be enough.

The effects of putting the entire country on welfare is that prices for your "basic life needs" will rise.

If you try to put indexing on the gibs, then prices will rise faster than the index.

Just say no to gibs. White people can survive in an environment without gibs, but niggers and spics can't. Get rid of the gibs and suddenly the shitskins won't be able to survive in our ecosystem any more.

Wow, this is on a new level of retardation.

I have some theories about the future. A lot of our current systems are basically doomed to fail spectacularly. Consumerism, the rigged financial system, the political system are all doomed.

If you look at something like bitcoin, it proves that you can do a financial system far more efficiently, and with no middle-men parasites.

Take that concept and extend it into other realms. What if we had a bitcoin of politics. Each person makes a transaction (a vote) which is logged in the big block chain which is a ledger of all transactions. Everything is encrypted and recorded to prevent fraud. In addition to value, a transaction can also contain data. It wouldn't be a big stretch to create a political system around the idea that everyone votes, in a form of direct democracy that hasn't been possible since ancient greece.

New systems like this would have to employ ideas of voluntaryism and crowd funding. Imagine if you could vote for something, for example, my vote is to improve the road in front of my house. My vote would include money/value, all the voters in my neighborhood would vote for this and eventually the value would add up into a fund, which would be payable to anyone on the open market who could do the job. Similar to how crowd funded ideas can be turned into finished products based on the support of potential customers. Basically preordering something that you want to exist, but doesn't exist yet.

Or my idea for basic income in exchange for training/education. Imagine if you could give a basic income of like 30k a year to someone in exchange for them to produce a youtube channel where they instruct how to do something, some job, some service that has value. Then you give a basic income to other people in exchange for them to watch those training videos and then act on that training by producing something of value. In this way you are getting something of value from the basic income.

It beats the hell out of a welfare system where you are basically throwing an infinite amount of money into a black hole and getting less than nothing in return.

For that to work the robots would have to be owned by the state and "rented" to corporations by the people through the state, while prohibiting private companies to make their own robots, which is a pretty retarded and roundabout way of doing things if you ask me.

No you would have Unions and a 2nd amendment.

Nice argument faggot. I'm not shilling anything, nobody is paying me for this. And neither is my reason "hurr durr muh utopia" it's that this shit is inevitable. It's coming. And there isn't shit you can do about it.

Not true. They can already drive in our cities. That's what they were built for in the first place. As they become more common we may see AI only lanes where they go way faster, but they're already fine under current conditions.

Why? And anyway it's not like this shit is stagnant, there's too much money in it. Kinks are constantly being worked and out bugs eliminated.

Now here's something. People do have an issue handing over control to a machine at high speeds, even if they know it's better than they are. For now, this will probably be addressed by having an option for manual control, and will still have a steering wheel and pedals. But 1-2 generations from now when people grow up used to this stuff, they'll have less an issue handing over control to a machine. That's when they'll eliminate human control entirely from the vehicles, and maybe even ban normal cars on major roads.

You're not thinking big enough. Imagine having a car that can get to the destination without you having to drive it the whole time. I enjoy driving, but a lot of people don't. Imagine you wanted to visit some family a few states away. You could hop in, tell the car where to go and relax in the back. Read a book, listen to music, chat with your passengers, drink some beers. Tell the car to pull over at any national parks or whatever and it's a vacation on the way. No more stressful 12-18+ hour drives that many Americans make regularly, and many die doing.

Again, I'm not saying you couldn't or that it couldn't happen. I'm saying you can't just sabotage this technology out of existence. It's too goddamn profitable.

Good to know you have absolutely no argument, there are plenty of these sort of documentaries made for technologies. The thing is that most are garbage and just wishful thinking, like that future military technology show on Discovery Channel. And watching what you just linked only one minute in, I can already tell you didn't watch it since it is intended to drive through the desert, which is a completely fucking open field with no risk of collision with other drivers.

Not necesarily, it depends on how you do things. What I had in mind is for the government to turn every expenditure in social services and aid into basic income and privatize everything. So the state would spend the same ammount and there wouldn't necesarily be inflation

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That is how it works now, a few things could be improved, but it works well in Denmark. Main issue is in America, we are dumbed down and no one knows who the VP is so the Jews can rip everyone off with scams.

which just goes to show you know absolutely nothing about the DARPA challenge

Är jag ens förvånad att de är en danskjävel som skulle komma med ett så efterblivet förslag.

The basic income idea relies on the assumption that people aren't inherently lazy shits and will use that money to better themselves and society. Which seems to be true. For some mysterious reason it's always everyone else that will blow it on crack and leech off of the system.

Putting conditions on it would turn it into regular welfare where you have the government micromanaging recipients.

This is actually one of the better alternatives that I've heard. Everyone invests in completely automated corporations that pays out dividends. The only real issue is getting the initial funds to invest in them in a future where there are no jobs.

you are a fucking child

Freedoms worth living for, eh?
Do you know what will happen if BI doesn't get implemented? Don't you see it already happening?
Do you think that the proliferation of political correctness, attention whoring and literal prostitution happened because of a few pretentious books and speeches?

When robots take your job, the only value you'll have to their (((owners))) is sucking their mutilated dicks, selling your genetic material to them, your attention, etc. You'll be a slave not just physically, but they'll own your very mind. You'll be selling ad space on your retinas just to make ends meet, your job will consist of praising your masters on your social media page for half a shekel an hour, and you'll be considering wife-pooling with 10 other miserable fucks like yourself, just like how it's already happening in China. And remember, no complaining. It's not marketable! Stay positive, attend a motivation rally, and smile! If you can't, we have a pill for that! Side effects include brain and organ damage.
When hard work is taken out of the equation and you still own jack shit, the only thing you'll be able to rent out is your very private life. And if you refuse, and have no safety net? You die. Everyone with a shred of self-respect left dies. Only the rock bottom of humanity remains.

UBI is your only hope of your livelihood not being dependent on the whims of a maniac with an unending thirst for power and control.
When your slice of the planet has already been claimed by someone else centuries before you were born, the least you can do is make them pay the fucking rent.

See?

Eventually all cars will have a self-driving function and insurance companies will charge you a lot more to drive manually because self driving cars will be safer. So eventually everyone will switch over to automated systems.

Anyone who argues against that is probably earning a living as a driver and just doesn't want it to be true.

i would blow it on crack and leech off the system

you 20 year old faggot

Why are you fags so eager to have the government control everything? Do you like sucking government cock?

Only way to ensure human rights is to take ownership of that which makes your income.

That why you have standing in court to sue should the Corporation take your money or screw you over. Otherwise it just becomes governments screwing corporations, and corporations paying government to screw the people. Kinda like now.

You really don't know how shit many roads are not only in terms of condition but also design. Very careless and incredibly dangerous design choices are frequent when making roads, they are actually the cause of a large portion of accidents and the reason why you have so many street signs in cities. In fact, it is the reason why in many countries it is illegal to not come to a complete halt at a stop sign rather than going down to 1 km/h and just continuing when you see it's safe, the police looking for people breaking this rule isn't just because they are greedy pigs that want to steal your money.
And yet the only thing they can provide is "oh but we are so close to getting it done". Promises mean jack fucking shit because you still don't have the required results, only speculation.
Yeah and they don't trust vehicles at low speeds on an open field where you can see everything and you will never see a single car less than a mile away either.
That would require it to become economically viable, which it would take hundreds of years. The tractors I mentioned that can drive themselves on open fields? They cost between 1 to 2 million Euros just to buy, there is also the fact that you need service stations with trained car eletricians, which is a highly specialised car mechanic. There are mechanics that have in the past fried circuitry on sensors in tractors and the company they worked at refused to cover the costs, meaning they had to slave for years just to pay back damages.
Like I said previously, this shit is incredibly expensive. Most modern cars have around 70-120 sensors in them already and this is for ones that aren't deluxe models with warmers for the steering wheel and cameras to observe the road. This is just for the ordinary car, then add all this shit you would have to add just so the car doesn't crash in the first few weeks, the costs are phenomenal.

Then congratulations on being a minority. Figuratively and literally.

I'm pretty sure Hitler had basic income in the Reich

the current government is a dinosaur, it will go extinct in our lifetime. The only reason it continues is because the elderly faggots that had power 50 years ago, still have power today, and haven't had the good sense to fucking die. Just look at Rothschild, he's over 100 and has had 9 heart transplants. Just fucking die already you fucking Lich.

Once the older generations are out of the picture we will see the new wave of people start to pave the way for a more modern system that actually takes advantage of things like instantaneous global communication via the internet.

When cash gets killed, i go fill automatic. fuck it. there's nowhere to hide after that.

Also the tractors I am talking about for that cost aren't ones with special tools for certain tasks, it is just the tractor itself. The fuckhuge cost is due to all of the electronics farmers want added in them, the mechanical parts are a lot less expensive than people think.

oh shit, lefty/pol/ going shitlord on us

btw, are you admitting that "minorities" would become leeches because of BI?

Ya they won't die, they already have life extension technology. That is what the socialist healthcare is about.

Funding the technology to extend their life, you will of course get death panels.

source?

You are a greedy little fuck. That is your problem.

If having the UBI be small fixes all the problems with it, then make it small. $24,000 a year for everyone is completely unsustainable. Only an idiot would set it so high. $6000 a year would be far more reasonable. Enough to live frugally with multiple roommates, or fairly well if you live at home.

???

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge

What could possibly go wrong?

6k are you kidding?

Most places you can't hardly even pay rent unless you make 11k a year and then you need to ride a bike to work, take food stamps and basically starve like a peasant most of the time.

In Switzerland where they recently almost had basic income, they estimated it would cost about 30k in US dollars to afford food, shelter and other necessities.

just fucking die

maybe the prices will go down for everyone else, and instead of a burden, you'd be somewhat useful

What does that have to do with anything?

Self-driving cars will be better at handling these things than humans. Unexpected sharp turns, etc. They have way better reaction time and will always be paying complete attention.

True. But we already have the results. And the results get better every month.

You don't know shit about technology. People that live today saw the invention of computers. They were fuckhuge and crazy expensive. Now everyone has one in their pocket that's way more powerful than the one that put men on the moon. Shit advances at an exponential pace and is always getting cheaper. It's not gonna take hundreds of years. It will be more expensive, at least at first. But like another user said, insurance companies will cut special rates for self-driving cars because they're way less likely to get in accidents, so that will help. When they first come out they will almost definitely be way too expensive for average people, but rich people will buy them and the technology will improve rapidly. Phones were crazy expensive and only for rich people when they were new too. You're being shortsighted here.

It is, and will be for some time. But it will continue getting cheaper like all tech does. Initial costs will be defrayed by shipping companies who will see profit from the mass amount of use the vehicles will get, that can drive much longer, further, and safer than any human driver. It will also be much cheaper per hour, plus you don't have to pay a robot any benefits.

You seem to have this idea that I like this. That I'm a fan of taking control of cars away from people and opening them up to 3rd party interference and constant GPS connection, so the government knows where you are at all times and where you like to go. And with internet connectivity, they can be hacked and made to reroute or just crash. I don't like any of this, at all. But there's no denying that this will be the reality.

open borders and welfare is what we have now. It's a mess. Everybody in central america wants to sneak into the US, shit out 14 kids and then live off the tax payers that need to pay taxes to fund the bloated welfare system. The democrats will keep pushing open borders because all the illegal immigrants vote Democrat.

Hopefully we get president Trump, and he deports 100 million of them back to their shithole of origin. Then we can have basic income, for citizens only, and build a better future.

Automation is the biggest issue facing our society and basic income is just a band aid. Until now for the last at least 6000 years and possibly much longer human civilization has been a profitable business transaction between people, keeping individuals and groups alive and together, no man being an island. The land owners, lords, and kings of the world needed people to grow their food, suck their dick, and wipe their ass. Now that basic utility that the non-owners of society has is being diminished, with signs of quickly disappearing entirely. Basic income would allow us all to continue living in cities eating what we're fed and buying what we're sold, just like things are today, but would be something like emulating DOS on your new top of the line PC. You're just wasting resources to play old games like "owner of an apartment complex"

There's no reason for us to live in tiny boxes miles away from food, water, or energy if we don't have to all go to the same place to generate value. Automation, 3D printing, so called green energy, these things in a free market would be depopulating cities as people save up enough to buy the robot slaves and land they need to start their own plantations. But people are instead offered gibs that keep them trapped in food deserts and depression.

I expect basic income but what would really advance humanity to the next level is providing every family with one electron beam deposition 3D printer and two acres of land.

You are a greedy little fuck. That is your problem.

Get some fucking roommates and live college dorm style if you don't want to work. Three men to a bedroom in a two bedroom apartment translates to $100 per month per man rent in a low rent area.

Don't want to live like that? Better get to work!

well I lived in San Diego. I had 4 other roommates. My 1/5th share of the rent, for a room the size of a large closet was over $600 a month.

but he's special!

how can he share a room and eat microwave pizza (if that)?

he needs 30k/year for his own apartment and expenses!

Only reason that is needed is because you wanted to live in the white hood. The niggers pay 1/10th that because no one want to live there.

Remove minority and problem solved

If you think that green energy would help de-centralize the world, then you are either stupid or you have no idea what you are talking about. Decentralization is impractical. Cities are the hubs of capital, influence, science progress. You can get everything in the city, that's the point. Of course, you can argue "oh but why don't we have village for scientists, village for beer, village for movies etc.". Well, because the entire world would go bankrupt trying to make the manufacture work. Unless in the future there is something that transports stuff over continents for pennies a kilogram, there will be no decentralization.

*make the infrastructure work efficiently, not manufacture

This guy gets it.
Half the problem is we have monster corporations like Monsanto that want to have an absolute monopoly on food production. This is an old method of control, you control the food, you control the people. Plus it's a slick way for the globalist eugenics proponents to poison the population without them noticing.

In 20 years, if everyone uses bitcoin, gets a 3D printer and starts farming their own food we could bring down these corrupt mega-corporations and regain a bit of the sovereignty that we need to prosper.

gotta agree with this guy

I'm a BI supporter (not yet, but soon), and I think 6k is plenty

Exactly, I wanted to live in a house in a white neighborhood, with white roommates.

I didn't want to live in some ghetto apartment complex surrounded by welfare hoodrats and gangbangers.

you deserve a lot less than that

you're less than white and deserve to be spat on

decentralization will happen because of two things. 1. you can get anything over the internet. and 2. cheap 3D printers will mean that anyone can download a file from the internet and manufacture it in their own home. So shipping becomes unnecessary. Big box stores like wallmart, selling cheap plastic crap from china, become unnecessary.

Then get a job and don't try to survive entirely off of a basic income. A BI means that you won't don't die if you lose your job, not that you can quit working entirely.

Neocohens and lolbergs ITT are actually saying that jobs must be "created" (implying that they don't naturally arise out of need, but that they must be artificially made), even if there is zero actual need for those jobs. Their brainwashing to be slaves and useful idiots goes so deep that it's practically a religion for them, making them no different from SJW's.

Exactly.

But good luck explaining that to spoiled children who live on their rich parents expense. Those people are essentially kikes, as their value systems are 100% Jewish.

What work?

kill yourself

Oh, and not to mention that neocohens actually have a paid shill army that goes around promoting "free markets" on the internet, so they don't get guillotined when goys realize that that's one big lie.

You see, even a bot agrees with me.

You do know that 3D printing is expensive as of yet and it still needs base materials to do the printing. It won't just shit out a fucking gourmet meal or a computer out of thin air. You'll still need millions of trucks traveling country-wide to provide metals, plastics, food. I don't even want to mention how many mobile technicians you'd need employed at all times to fix and maintain these machines everywhere in the decentralized, let's say US. It'd be a logistical nightmare. You'd probably increase fuel consumption worldwide.

Driving once through a course for 100km is not really an issue, especially for a scheduled event. Even for humans, you have to try REALLY hard to fuck up driving 100km through urban areas. The problem is when you have a car that has to survive for prolonged periods of time, a truck driven by a human can easily reach 800,000 km within its lifetime.

There is a crossing with a stop sign where I live, it is famous for having a particular wrong on once guy's property that has had a couple dozen cars crash into it. He bought the boulder because he had plenty of close calls with cars almost going through his window into the living room, which could easily have killed him and his wife. And that stop sign is there as a precaution, it ensures people don't crash because of the geography of that particular spot but it is one of the examples where the marked line on the road is not the guide for where you should stop, which is where the exception in stop signs for marked lines applies. The actual crossing is impossible to see if you stop at the market line and incredibly dangerous if you just drive without paying attention to the actual spot you should stop at. The crashes in that crossing can go up to two or three times a year and that is for people that have driven there before and that is for experienced drivers. Since you are going to call bullshit, I may as well mention that it is in Cesis, which has some of the shittiest design choices imaginable for roads.
You are orientating by what you desire to be the outcome, the progression of technology into what it is now is a very attractive image but it is also very misleading. Modern CAN systems are already filled with fuckhuge numbers of devices, raising the number of devices will not make it cheaper. In fact the entire CAN system arose from the fact that there was so much electronics that copper wiring was actually becoming the most expensive thing about the car. And it certainly helped reduce the cost but wiring on top of the electronics themselves is still a massive part of the cost, the tractors I mentioned aren't even close to what you are asking of car technology and they are already at the price that you could build your own damn company from how much it costs just to buy one, let alone maintain it. Farming is a very huge business and makes up a very large portion of the demand for car electronics manufacture, the sinking of prices is true when it comes to things that don't have businesses dedicated to their manufacture (eg. high-frequency flow sensors) but these things already have that, there is already heavy competition over it and it is still vastly expensive. Here it is a matter of resources and necessary work, not the lack of interest.

read the thread you 20 year old faggot

I'm getting sick of arguing with you because you're clearly uninformed on the issue and you keep bringing up entirely irrelevant shit.

Mile for mile, AI drivers are ALREADY safer than human ones. Already there. Yeah they're still expensive but the tech is already here for self-driving cars to get in FAR less accidents than humans. I don't think you realize how many people die in car accidents every day.

Are you arguing against yourself? An AI pilot would have GPS data, near instantaneous and complete awareness of its surroundings, and would be immune to distractions. An AI pilot would not fuck up there like humans so often do.

Why would I? I know there are plenty of fucked up roads and city planning decisions. I don't think you quite understand what we're talking about here. AI drivers would handle that shit better than any human is physically capable of.

I don't desire this. But I see that it is a natural progression. It will be highly profitable and highly convenient. Just one of those would make it likely, both guarantees it.

And man will never fly. No man will ever step foot on the moon. We will never cure smallpox. The horse and carriage is here to stay. There is no smaller unit of matter than the atom. etc etc

It is difficult to imagine the future, even harder to do so accurately. But that has never stopped it from coming.

3D printers used to be very expensive but this is changing fast.
indiegogo.com/projects/new-matter-mod-t-a-3d-printer-for-everyone#/
Here is a $200 3D printer.

I would like to see them legalize hemp and then make a machine that processes hemp into 3D printable material. It's a great material for making all sorts of things. Just imagine if everybody could grow some plants, throw them in a shredder. Download some designs for furniture and 3D print out a whole room full of tables and chairs etc. If you needed plastics you could probably order it from amazon and buy in bulk on the cheap. Or there could even be a market for an appliance that recycles plastic bottles at home into 3D printable material.

They could even design systems to use other materials that are available most places for free. Sand, dirt, stone etc.

All you have is circular logic relying to a "free market" as some kind of omnipotent deity and using a kike value system as the ultimate reference.

Being a kike is more than a race, it's a state of mind.

They are not near free because of the parasites. And finite resources, but that's a different story.

sage your posts in the future (((user)))

Only in controlled environments, which means nothing. Someone from Russia can drive better across ice than someone from Spain but that doesn't mean that the Russian will all of a sudden be better at Spanish roads.
And you missed the whole point of that wall of text. The crossing is by design very dangerous and the sign that was put in place was actually inadequate, the safe zone to stop and observe marked and deemed safe by the government, which would ultimately be where they get the information from, was not suited to ensure safe driving. The marking was wrong because the government itself was incapable of recognising an issue that only the locals are aware of and can only be discovered through experience, which is not very helpful when the one driving there is an AI and not a human.
Where are my flying cars then? I was promised flying cars, teleporters that would bring me to work and magic food that would instantly make me full while at the same time being super healthy and not costing a damn thing. I am also still waiting on my shrink ray so doctors can use a spaceship to travel through my bloodstream.
It is very easy to tell this particular thing is bullshit though since I deal with cars every day and actually know how the sensors I am dealing with work, just like it doesn't take a genius to tell why a shrink ray wouldn't exist.

I think there are some really big hurdles for basic income. A lot of the problems are a result of other problems and if we could fix those problems, there wouldn't be as much opposition to BI. You couldn't just do it by itself because it wouldn't have a solid foundation.

It's like how we can't have affordable healthcare. It's too easy to sue a doctor so insurance premiums are huge and insurance companies cause medical costs to be super inflated and the pharmaceutical industry is full of greedy cunts who will take a medicine that can be made for pennies and jack the price up 6,000,000% because they have a monopoly and you can't get it anywhere else so you have to pay.

Why hello there fellow right winger.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. They've tested these cars on normal roads with normal drivers. They had a human in there to take control if need be, but they never had to. They are already safer than humans.

The car could at the same time see the GPS data for the spot and could react much faster than any human could to an unexpected change in the road. The AI is also much more aware of exactly what the car is capable of, so if it were coming to a blind intersection it would slow down until it had sufficient info that it was safe. The marking alone being wrong doesn't change that. We're not talking about basic shit that runs off street signs and street markings. We're talking 360 degree observation of the environment, very quick analysis and decision making based on that info faster than a human is physically capable of, combined with constant awareness of GPS and satellite imagery. No human can compete.

We'll probably have this stuff eventually. We already have flying cars actually, and cars that can also function as boats and submarines. Problem with them is that there's really no need for them, they don't provide enough benefit for their increased cost and normal users are completely incapable of operating them. None of that is true about self driving cars.

No, you're not. You can know all about the sensors

have you been here since chanology?

accidentally hid submit dammit

No, you're not. You can know all about the sensors and mechanics of a vehicle, that doesn't mean you're qualified to speak on the future of AI technology and what it is capable of. You're blinded by arrogance, you think that since you know current tech so well you can speak so authoritatively of the future. But time and time again you've shown yourself to be completely uninformed on this matter.

lol, man oh man, you two have been going back and forth forever on this self-driving car thing.

The first automated trucks will rely heavily on predetermined routes set by operators that have driven the route and planned for any obstacles the truck will encounter. These trucks will act like trains over the road but without the track and reacting only to other vehicles, pedestrians, and the occasional deer or lost couch on the road. Buildings don't move very often.

At first these trucks will have human operators behind the wheel to do inspections, hookups, and take over in case something goes wrong. Drivers will be have it easy doing less work and it'll allow them to run more hours than before. Eventually as the system is perfected less human intervention will be needed and less experience will be needed to run an automated truck. The wages for truck drivers will drop from the 30-40k/yr it is now to minimum wage work. The human is only there for formality.

Next will come the convoy. A single human operator will drive a lead vehicle and several will follow. Getting more done for the same amount of work. Then comes the completely autonomous vehicle. Why pay a human to be there when the trucks drive themselves? Inspections and maintenance will be done as they pick up and drop off trailers. If something breaks it pulls to the side of the road, parks, and waits for a human mechanic to show up.

That's how automation is going to replace human jobs. It's not going to be 100%. A few people will remain in niches as needed. Humans will be slowly phased out over the next few decades in favor of more profitable and economical solutions. AI and the singularity may or may not happen but it doesn't need to. The technology is here now.

You can be the moderator. Who scored more points? I'm about done arguing about this shit. 5-20 years and he'll be learning to be a mechanic on more complex systems.

according to jew science, the universe began about 13-14 billion years ago
earth about 4 billion
complex life about 500 million
mammals at like 70 million (or something)
hominids at like 6 million
man at 200k
tools at least 100k ago
bows at 20k
farming at 10k (unless atlantis theory is true)
writing at 6k
~lots of stuff~
fancy renaissance shit about 600 years
industry 300 years
trains 200 years
metal ships 150 years
cars/electricity/running water 120 years
planes 100 years
radio/tv/jets/all the nazi shit 80 years
computers 60 years
space 50 years
modern computers/video games/cell phones 30 years
internet 20 years
internet phones 10 years
self-driving cars recent

see the pattern, numbnuts?

Hydro power and nuclear tech outperform oil. Oil's just an extremely convenient method of energy transportation.

America is currently working on a solar-powered landfill recycler that turns landfill waste into oil. The future is converting green energy sources into oil.

have the foresight to become self-sufficient instead of relying on gibsmedats. you need your basic income for whatever hedonistic trash your into. government should always stay out of economics unless it HAS to intervene. otherwise you end up subsidizing those who didnt evolve.

this makes you omniscient? and you know the future?
Knowing tube technology completely wouldn't have prepared you for hall effect sensors

Many GPS systems are lacking in roads and often even have misleading information, this is, of course, ignoring it being extremely inaccurate even if the road mapping is 100% accurate. I am sure you don't need to be reminded of the retards that drove into a river because the GPS told them to.
You are legitimately retarded if you think that knowing about sensors isn't enough to tell it is bullshit. Saying "b-but the programmers will fix it" is not enough because the cost, application, function and malfunction of sensors is important. One example of this would be the difference between segways and hoverboards both in price and application. Feel free to look up the prices of both, segways have been around for a lot longer than hoverboards but manage to have monumentally higher prices, which is largely due to the price of sensors measuring for acceleration. And segways have gotten cheaper, but it still costs less to just buy a car.

Fuck off back to your sociology professor with that linear technological progression bullshit

Hall effect sensors are pretty shit, m8.

What are helicopters?

Isn't basic income just welfare? In that case,it's shit. It provides soil for lazy useless niggers to grow on.

its thinly veiled commie bullshit and many posters in this thread are from Holla Forums. they dream of robots doing all the work while they squat on dildos and eat ice cream. despicable.

No you're just uneducated. With an electron beam deposition printer you could make your own solar panels out of silicone and copper. Your own batteries out of nickel and iron. Your own gravity battery out of steel, cement, and copper. Your own anything almost as long as you feed the printer the right powders. This is gamechanging tech. Look up the words you don't understand before you post plz.

Have you ever heard of the MetallicaRap project?

One thing that goes against the linear technological progression autism is the fact that battery technology is actually fairly stagnant due to material constraints. There are advancements in battery technology but they are fairly insignificant.
You know very well what is meant by that. It is not the concept itself that is in question here but also how viable it is to have it in abundance. Quantum computers exist already but that doesn't mean everyone is going to have one in their fridge simply because someone thought it would be cool if it happened.

They even post that shitty CGPGrey video thinking that people won't notice

Not quite. Welfare generally requires some justification (often tenuous) like "having depression", or "being really autistic". Basic income is just given out to any ol shit.

Also "Basic Income" has a far more aggrandized name.

No shit numbnuts. It's like you're not even reading this shit anymore because I've fucked you over so many times. At least twice now I've said that they COMBINE navigation systems like GPS with full environment awareness and processing faster and more accurate than a human brain is capable of. And they can't be distracted thinking about other shit or some hot chick jogging on the sidewalk. You also skipped over that bit where I said they could and have already driven under normal conditions further and safer than humans. Just like every other time I've shown you to be wrong, you just pretend it didn't happen.

You don't. I don't care if you're the best mechanic the world has ever seen. That does not translate into being an expert on what AI pilots are capable of, or will be capable of. You can make all the "hurr durr" shit and "b-but this and th-that" but you only reveal the weakness of your position. Like it or not, programmers and AI researchers that work on self-driving car tech do indeed know more about it than you do.

Do you really think that shit is comparable? What utility does a hoverboard or segway offer compared to a self-driving car? They will save lives, make money, and be crazy convenient. Hoverboards and segways do not have nearly the same utility or capability. No segway can transport tons of shit across the country quickly and reliably. No hoverboard can take you across the country while you relax in the backseat.

Are you denying that technology progresses at an ever increasing rate? This has been the case since writing was discovered, and is especially apparent since the industrial revolution. Things are still accelerating.

Read the thread.

Isn't inheritance just huge welfare? It provides soil for lazy useless niggers to grow on.

Sure thing Moishe. I guess we should embrace Monarchy with "wise bankers" and "industrialists" as royalty?

if you do that, porky will reshuffle its workforce until its cost effective again.

you need actually change the system(contracts and conditions),
socdems can cry blood, porky doesn`t give a shit.

/thread

San Diego isn't low rent. Fucking move.

not a collegefag, but shouldn't it be "quadratic" progression if it increases exponentially?

x^2: x has an exponent
2^x: Exponential

You are not even trying to hide your power level there.

If we ever get automation, it will be the work of the porkie.

useless eaters scared as fuck of the future. they know they offer nothing of value and are seeking to preemptively insure their survival with "basic income" garbage. either use improving technologies to become self-sufficient or innovate so other innovators/workers need or want your product. commies once again subverting their end goal of a moneyless society by shilling for subsidization of the useless eaters. cant even into their own end goal. probably because they are full retard in the first place and dont care about " systemic oppression" just being catered to while offering nothing. thanks for exposing yourselves as complete trash once again.

yeah that helps, thanks

x^2 is an exponential function
2^x is a geometric function. That is faster progress than exponential, and is likely the type of curve we will shift to post singularity.

subsidizing people for no other reason than being alive is marxist garbage. seems like you cant take natures eternal fascism to its logical conclusion. evolve or die scum.

Programmers are dependent on the inputs they are given by the technology available. I can say the same thing to you, you can be the best programmer in the universe but that doesn't mean you will make an economically viable technology that does everything that is asked of them.
Segways and hoverboards rely on the exact same sensor technology, the primary difference between the two in terms of functionality is that hoverboards have just enough to ensure functionality while segways have more sensors for redundancy to ensure safety in the event of failure. And that alone manages to make a huge part of the price difference. I was using segways and hoverboards as an example of sensors having a huge impact on the price in comparison to one another, which they do, not about how cars are literally segways.
As stated in the battery example, it depends on what you are looking at. Another thing that is reaching close to slowing down is the density and size of processors that can be made in computers due to the material constraints of their buildup, it is still rapidly advancing but the pace is starting to slow down.

Useless eaters are ALREADY subsidized, and worse, incentivized not to work.

Give them an allowance AND let them work is much better. Even better than that would be to reduce their allowance to zero.

So you are ok with banning inheritance then?

I am evolving, it's you who is already dead, slave.

The world today is a real screw job. You can move to the big city if you want to get a good paying job. I applied at Time Warner, I applied at Sony. If you don't land one of those jobs you have to take what you can get which tends to be a low paying job. The rent will be too damn high regardless.

So a couple years go by and you lose all hope of landing a good job. Then you move out into the middle of nowhere and yeah the rent is cheap and affordable, but there are no high paying jobs, there's no tech jobs, there is literally nothing but low paying factory work and warehouse jobs.

So basically you are fucked no matter what you do. If you happen to be one of the lucky few who does land the high paying job, even then you wont be happy.

One of my roommates who also applied to time warner did get the job and he made real good money but he hated it, absolutely hated it. So he was super unhappy, overworked etc. He probably got the job because he is a pseudo-jew. Actually Russian but his family converted.

theyre catered to because kikes run the world. work, become self-sufficient or die. if you are too stupid to compete in a world with automatization, without being catered to for simply being alive, you were not meant to survive.

You're just burying your head in the sand at this point. I and many other anons have shown you that self-driving cars are coming, and in many ways are already here. And I dunno why this upsets you so much, this is good business for you as a mechanic. These cars will be more complicated making shit even more impossible for home mechanics like me to do any serious work on them.

There is far less economic incentive to build on those technologies and make them cheaper and more efficient. There is very little return in doing so. Compared to self-driving cars which is huuuugely profitable. This isn't some future-fetish shit, major car companies see it too and have already begun investing in this area. I don't just mean Tesla, there are other big ones like GM that are very interested.

No, tech improvement isn't a clean exponential curve. But it is accelerating. We already have the processing speed required for self-driving cars. We don't need faster computing for them, just better programs. Which we already have and are still being improved.

woah there shlomo. its like you dont even know how genetics/dna work.

ok commie. slave to nature i am.

Yes, the (((elites))) and their pets are truly scared as fuck. What will these useless eaters (inheritors) and their political prostitutes do in a system where you need to be productive?

You are the other side of the same shekel.

Not in any English literature. Are you from some country with almost no connection to the bulk of scientific literature?
You could call it that in a sense, although it would be confusing. You're right that it relates strongly to geometric sequences though.
Shitty bait, I almost took it though.

Move to Texas. Much lower rents, combined with better salaries. Also no state income tax.

why are you so mad about inheritance itt? did your parents take turns shitting on you in the closet every night?

Genetics work by transferring billions to your children, sure thing Chaim. Because money is totally not a meme meant to give the inferior power over the superior, against all rules of nature.

And this further proves that your kind doesn't give a fuck about nationalism, but that they are only pretending so to defend their shekels. You are petty, greedy subhumans, essentially the Jews.

literally the definition of communism is to get rid of money. i dont give a fuck about money though shlomo. i care about not subsidizing useless eaters with "basic income". good try though.

Because it exposes your hypocrisy and lies the best.

Ok, then enjoy working for 1 dollar a day in some sweatshop. But you are not working, you are leeching on your parents, that's totally not welfare, it's genetics :>)

It is future fetish shit though, learning to drive isn't really that difficult and most of the time people can easily put up with it. And thus the only way it would be anything other than circlejerking over technology is if it is without supervision, which is the part about it that I am saying is unviable. Having it go like farmers simply sitting in their tractor is going to give very little advantage for companies to take it and personal comfort from not having to turn the wheel alone is not enough for it to be sustained.

Inheritance tax and the complete removal of the possibility to inherit property and wealth from your parents actually encourages a hedonistic society. Since people see that there is no reason to save it for their children, as they won't be able to get it, they will spend it all on personal pleasure to be certain their effort won't have gone to waste. Having the possibility to transfer your wealth to the next generation ensures that people will just for the sake of giving it to their children.

I've been in the self-driving cars are inevitable category this whole time. The other guy is just wrong. Not completely wrong. He makes some valid points. But generally wrong. manually driven cars will go the way of the horse drawn carriage eventually.

No I haven't heard of metalicarap, I'm looking into it now. I feel like a lot of corporations will try to block 3D printing technologies, and governments will help them do it, like when the feds forced them to take the files for the 3D printed gun off the internet. Corporations can pay lobbyists to bribe politicians to pass laws to ban technologies which would be disruptive. and 3D printing is very disruptive.

Taking the power of production away from the monumental corporations and putting it in the hands of the individual is a powerful decentralizing force which has major implications on our entire consumer driven society. If you can make you own cheap plastic crap where does that leave China and Wallmart? Bankrupt hopefully…

Whoops. Been more than a decade since I used any math beyond trigonometry. y=x^2 is a QUADRATIC function. y=2^x is an exponential function. Growth that follows this rate can also be called geometric.

yeah, and your mentioning of geometric is reasonable

tell me what im lying about.

nice projection. ive helped my parents financially. doubt youve done the same because all you seem to care about is being catered to.

You sure have. Paid for their basic inco- I mean "social security".

I think what is lacking in the welfare system, is progress. If Flapsqueesha is on welfare she has a bunch of kids (which gives her more welfare) with a bunch of dudes, and most of them go to jail so none of her bastards will have daddies or any role models at all for that matter, except maybe the gangsta rappers telling them to do drugs and shoot cops.

In that, there is no progress. It's a perpetual torpor. A form of cultural stasis or suspended animation. They are living but not truly alive.

basic income, if it is going to work, will need to at least include some method to incentivise that the recipient better themselves in some way so that eventually they become a productive self-reliant citizen. that's why I was suggesting earlier that basic income is a good idea if it comes with the requirement to take job training or do some sort of public service volunteer work.

user, you are so full of bad information I'm surprised you aren't a government employee.

As of mid 2016 google's autonomous cars had driven a total of over 1.5 million miles. At the same time Tesla's autopilot driven cars had logged over 47 million miles since the programs release in 2015
>electrek.co/2016/04/11/google-self-driving-car-tesla-autopilot/

I guess modern electronic ignition system are all crap since the majority of them rely on hall effect sensors to replace the points in an old fashioned system?

...

That's an outright lie and projection.

A society that instills right values in people would encourage them to invest in things like science, space exploration, or the general wellbeing of their nation. Or simply improve themselves and learn instead of chasing a shekel on a stick their whole life. That would benefit their children as well. They would have to struggle for their personal power, and that would mold them as people.

But i'm not arguing for welfare here, not even for the inheritance tax, i'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.

This stance means that you have understood nothing.

You can create a feedback loop of economic growth from something that seems like a dumpster fire of wasted tax payer money, you just have to do things in an intelligent way.

1. person receives BI, attends job training
2. a job is created, providing the job training
3. person uses job training to get a job that pays more than BI, thus BI is no longer required.

some safeguards would need to be in place
A. no illegal immigrants on BI
B. no BI for people who wont attend job training

It could work even if the job training is training the person to train other people, it creates jobs. Eventually some of the people in that loop will learn how to succeed and become a profitable self-sufficient person.

BI has to be near starvation though

never underestimate laziness and human indecency

8 years ago we didn't think that we needed or wanted a platform to express our thoughts in 140 characters, but here we are today and a Presidential candidate is using that platform to great effect in his campaign.

creative destruction will create new jobs that we never thought we wanted or needed, or the population will be reduced due to starvation.

either way, we win.

Hall sensors are shit though, the reason why they are used over inductive sensors for ignition systems is that Hall sensors are lighter.

In theory it sounds nice but how can you ensure that people WILL invest in science, space exploration and general wellbeing? People are much more likely to care for themselves than they are for people they don't know.
Wrong person, m8

I'm sure its been said already but Basic Income is a dysgenic and immoral solution to automation and increasing productivity. The exact kinds of people we don't want hanging around will be the only ones using this income and will drag down the rest of society with them. With that they will breed and create even more dependents that will leech. Basic income is the culmination of what socialism advocates for in all its forms. There is no future in such a world, for without the basic instinct to survive we have nothing to live for.

How did Hitler ensure it?

A nation needs to function like an organism. When cells start fighting each other, organism dies, and cells along with it. When they work together, the organism becomes powerful, and that benefits each cell individually. You need to create a society where every cells knows it's place and position.

The problem with capitalism, as well as Marxism, is that they create wrong premises for determining that.

Capitalism does work initially, when the conditions are relatively free, but it's end game is same as that of Marxism. The kikes pushing for SJW stuff today didn't get power thanks to communism, they got it thanks to capitalism.

Soros is a financial speculator, not some kind of commie official.

Third position > alle

It could even be something like an apprenticeship, like in medieval times the job of blacksmith was pretty important, and he would take on an apprentice who would work for him and learn how to do the job while assisting the master.

You would need to update this a lot for modern times obviously. It would probably be like, you hire a robotics engineer who teaches an apprentice how to maintain factory robots, or a mechanic who repairs self-driving cars. These are job skills that will be required in our highly automated future.

yeah BI might have to be low. Or perhaps instead of paying for housing it should allow the person to live in a camp or facility in which the job training takes place. The biggest part of BI would be rent so if the sort of public housing that BI covers is specifically on-site at the job training facility, that kills 2 birds with one stone.

although it could be done badly and be like chinese factories where people live where they work for nearly nothing and require suicide nets to keep from killing themselves.

We already have basic income
Its called ssi aka autismbux

There isn't much of a future in a world without basic income either. Considering that over time robots and programs will replace almost every job that a human does. Either you find an alternative to our money system that requires money to live, or the human race is doomed to extinction.

You sound like a fucking Redditor

Autismbux requires some (weak) criterion at least.

Well I don't know if Hitler ensured people would donate or not because I don't have a source pointing to either way. And the thing about ensuring scientific progress, Hitler removed a lot of restrictions on trade along with having his own value-based currency meaning that there was strong economic growth that would ensure scientific growth along with it, there's also the German-science movement shit which I haven't really looked into too much but am pretty damn certain it wasn't to do with inheritance or lack thereof. Economically Hitler was actually very much in favour of free market, he simply didn't take the "muh free love" faggotry along with it that libertarians and ancaps often do.

...

That is just as retarded as the transhumanist cunts that say we will be able to magically upload our brains into a computer to create a hivemind.

fucking idiot, that was a beautiful post

NO BI WITHOUT STERILIZATION

When humans stop working society degenerates into a hedonstic, a-moral shithole. Just look at the end of the Roman Empire.

Work can be fun if you have passion for what you are working on. I can put in a 14 hour work day coding something as a hobby and I don't make a dime but I still do it because it's what I love to do. I don't think its a problem of basic human laziness, I think its a problem that most of the jobs in society are soul crushing bullshit instead of anything that you could take pride in.

brain uploads are a long ways off, probably the 2040's at the earliest, but it will happen. The human body is just a biological machine. If we can build a better machine out of silicon and metal alloys, why not do it? Plenty of people already have become cyborgs with robot hearts, or eyes, or ears etc, the brain is just the final frontier of replacing failing organic parts.

Autismbux is proof that basic income won't work. Less then 1% get off the rolls.

BI only has to be starvation level today because that's what we can afford with our current level of automation. $200 is enough to keep you alive for a month if you don't blow any on drugs or booze or other unnecessary shit but if the system works most people would only see a tax break, not a cash payment. The few people who legitimately can't support themselves because of disability or autism would be able to get shelter and care. The people who start a business that takes a year to become profitable aren't using high interest loans from the Jew to get their foot in the door of the economy. Elderly folks without retirement won't be eating catfood living in a cheap RV until some illness takes their life at huge taxpayer expense.

While I don't take kindly to Keynesianism the monetary velocity thing is a real effect and giving people with no spending power a bit of spending power at the expense of entities with more spending power than spending capacity you do end up with an economic net gain.

Oh great, you really are a transhumanist retard. I really don't know what else I expected.

very, very bad idea

insanely bad idea

address the jew, not the incentive to not fail

that's what families are for

Had that been the case, we would still be hunter gatherers.

The whole point of society is to impress a woman enough to have sex with you, and provide enough resources to ensure the resulting child reproduces.

Bloody hell, I thought it'd be bad, but that's awful.

Not a huge surprise I guess. I was once telling some friends that if we had basic income I'd be quite tempted to just play music and video games and waste time, and they said "no, no, Basic Income would inspire you to work at something you're interested in [that would also happen to be productive in society]". A sketchy claim, made even more so by your

They shouldn't get anything. Being disabled is a liability and if you have no social capital in order to justify someone paying for your existence, (such as a war veteran or loved family member) you have no right to steal it from productive members of society. Autism is a result of our decadent society sheltering young children from the realities of life. It wouldn't be a thing if we'd just raise our kids right.

Stealing is stealing user and taxing one bracket of civilians to subsidize a more worthless group of civilians is fucking theft no matter how pretty a bow you put on it.

Most people on ssi can drive a car, they have to get to the welfare office after all. The issue with ssi is that its too hard mentally real disabled people to obtain. Srs the avg wait time is 1+ year

Are you under the impression that the incentive not to fail is anything other than natural consequences?
When my shop fails to turn a profit no one comes and pushes my shit in, I just lose money, how would it be any different if some rich family member or the government provided me with barely enough money to survive?

Failure is failure. Loading up secondary consequences like bad credit and debt to failure doesn't make it any less fail. If anything it encourages failure because someone profits from it in that case.

I actually believe you're right but didn't they test this in switzerland and most people on it continued to work or started a business?

Once automated cars are in… First country will be china likely,basic income can be done.

The swiss have great work ethic. There is no real culture of work here in the USA.

So the country least likely to EVER use automated cars is going to have them first? Make sense
No, it can't. Even if you get some people to work when under it, the number of people leeching off of it will drain away any benefit and end up creating a net loss. Welfare in the US most certainly isn't ensuring people go to work, in fact it ends up doing the exact opposite by getting them to find new ways to get around rules to continue their parasitic tendencies.

He supported and allowed free trade (with heavy restrictions and conditions so it serves the nation and not work against it), because banning it completely would be idiotic.

However, his system brought power back to the people, even if he wasn't against inheritance.

He was a heavy "statist" and the state had control over the economy. Private interests, trade, etc. are fine, as long as they are in the common interest of everyone.

It's not about not working at all, but about working something fulfilling, or at least having enough free time for yourself and your family. Work needs to be a value in itself, and not a petty mercantile necessity.

I'm for BI not because of it's gibs aspects, but because of it's pressure relieving effect on the labor market.

you make no fucking sense

government should not subsidize individuals who are too fucking stupid to manage their finances until their business turns profitable

Well, the

It also has a possibillity for strangling competition. If an independent grocer, for example, must pay an employee 9/hr instead of perhaps, 5 or 6 and hr, he can never compete against say, walmart or a ralphs. People complain about corporations, but they don't know enough on how to stop it. Minimum wage laws are part of the problem while leftist mindset of "i'm an independent! Now I demand that the government provide services such as free education and free health care while I have no work experience to work for it". It's no wonder that ObamaCare or it's failure of a predecessor, HillaryCare, was doomed to fail and leave many people uninsured all the while continuing to feed into the greedy monopolies and oligopolies. It's funny how leftist morality has caused two generations of children into drones for both the state AND corporations.

Mike Rowe might have something to say to that

Min wage laws are needed you retard. Theres too many poorfags willing to work for less then 5 bucks an hour. It would make the jew richer

...

You're joking right? We practically manufactured for the entire world for 2 decades in the 50s and 60s

Why? Do you have a reason or are you just going to spout drivel about Jews and pretend like that's an argument?

Young people are moving back to their homes, happy playing vidya in their moms basement.

...

Jew's cunning =/= intelligence

According to your logic, Jews are the master race because they control all the finances.

And even the worst retard and degenerate can hire advisers to run profitable business for him, as long as he inherits enough money for it.

...

Well what do you base that on? Hitler reduced tax rates at all levels, the highest amount anyone would end up paying was 10% of their income. The US has a corporate tax rate of 15% and that ensures a lot of businesses want to stay there, relatively low amount of restrictions also ensure that small businesses can have a chance to stand up against larger ones. There is also the fact that Hitler privatised a lot of industry doesn't really make it seem like he had "heavy restrictions and conditions", since that would end up achieving the exact opposite of taking control.

lmao. Nice.

why is greentext a slightly different color since yesterday?

Oh look, the leftist reveals himself

That was years ago, the usa was mostly white with work ethic. Now you need a college degree and 20k debt just to obtain a 70k job.

He also nationalized many things. You are picking what you like, and ignore what you dislike about his policies.

Yeah and the US didn't have a $15 minimum wage either, faggot. Nor did it have the amount of welfare it does now.

I know that he nationalised some industries but he privatised more than he nationalised.

Do you really want that walmart bagger to obtain welfare and work for 3 dollars an hour and also paying no taxes? Its a lose lose.
I

sage your posts and pick up some books on economics

finance and economics do not belong to the jew

you should be ashamed of yourself for saying that

Err.. The us had more welfare you fucking retard. State welfare that is.

He nationalized the relevant industries. And how did that privatization go on? Was Germany communist before Hitler came into power or something? No, it was a free market paradise.

I have read enough of kike propaganda to know all of their points. Are you saying that modern finance does not belong to the kikes?

In contrast to what? Leeching welfare from a private company instead?

are you saying that modern finance is based on libertarian principles?

Minimum wage in 1963: $1.25
Adjusted for inflation to 2016 dollars: $9.83
Current federal minimum wage: $7.25

btw the us should not be a reference point in this conversation

Yes. It exactly is. Because your model brings accumulation of wealth to the point where it can be used as a leverage on it's own, and after that it leads to controlling the governments. And then you get feudalism with kikes as kings and baronds, and less freedom than in USSR.

You are forgetting that some states have a $15 minimum wage though, which is exactly what I was aiming at since that is also what Glassberg and Shillary supporters shill for.

Basic income is bad because Pigeons.

Which states have $15 minimum wage? Last I checked it was only a few cities and all of them plan to raise it to that level within a few years (none of them currently have $15).

They should lower the minimum wage so children can have jobs.

Paying people for nothing is like wasting water, and in the end we all die.

Oh wait, mixed it up, it wasn't states but instead only the most cucked cities that actually made it a goal to get $15/hour. The first to add it was San Francisco, then Seattle and Los Angeles later on. What a strange coincidence that it is only leftists, SJWs and Commiefornians that want to raise it to $15/hour, it is almost as if there were a correlation.

my model states that the weak should die off, or be sterilized

today's financial system works in collusion with the government

btw you never address what i post, you just take it towards general principles

you're all over the place

no clear stance, no argument

Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that "we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",[13] but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."[14] At a later time, Hitler said: "Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether… What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism."[12] In private, Hitler also said that "I absolutely insist on protecting private property… we must encourage private initiative".[15]

So he was a Common-Sense Socialist…

#148800

Read up on Strasserism and his rivalry with Hitler. Hitler abandoned his anti-capitalist views after the National Socialists got into power, Strasser was subsequently killed because his beliefs were fundamentally different and he was an anti-capitalist.

The national socialists solved the problem differently, but created pretty much a system that our central bank system today is based on with different factors accounting for inflation etc.

And how do you determine who is weak and who is strong? Because money is certainly not the way to determine that, as i have said, it allows subhumans to thrive and strong people to become eliminated. It's inherently dysgenic, as we see today. And all the "leftist" stuff that's going on today is nothing more than an attempt to make people even more powerless, and reduce the wages even further. It's profitable.

I have clearly elaborated all of my points.

Was that the time when he said that he has one ball? Or another of countless (((testimonies)))

Bread and circus, everyone.

The text you copy-pasted means that you can't rely on the general definition of "socialism", you have to depend on the actual economic policies. From what I understand, it is largely free market, since he removed a lot of things implemented by labour unions that leftists added "to protect workers" after he banned labour unions as a whole, greatly reduced taxes and did more privatisation than nationalisation.

Strasser was a closet Communist, the fact that he thought Hitler was going after Jews for no reason should give you a hint as to why he sought to overthrow the NatSoc government in Germany after being expelled by Goebbels despite being good friends with him at one point.

Correction: Goebbels didn't expel Strasser, he announced him to be public enemy number one and offered a huge bounty on his head.

Peanuts and propaganda.

Money and magazines.

Communism => Paid in Propaganda
Capitalism => Paid in Peanuts
Trump Republicanism => Paid in Both (Goebbels + G. Washington = Trump)

clearly

Capitalkike logic

great post

Space exploration, mars colonies, yada yada yada.

So I am at the point of rejecting UBI, for the leech economy, slavery-productivity argument. But I cannot see any jobs ( for billions of people ) surviving a galactic expansion. I feel that the aim of a NatSoc (any nationalist populist) movement would be bettering humanity. The next stage of this seems to me to be colonising the stars. What will happen to "work" then?
Opt.1 - relatively (to current pop. Stats) small groups of colonisers? This would mean global genocide?
Opt.2 - exponential expansion, with EVERYBODY (billions)

Opt.1 seems wrong, unless we did a Aryans in Space style eugenics program
Opt. 2 seems the most appealing. I am currently considering the arguments for a capitalist expansion vs. A commie expansion

Wow sorry for the word salad chaps, this is work in progress.

I'll give you this, Moshe: you've got dedication.

Ditch the idiotic ideas of "humanity". Any future "natsoc" or similar movement needs to be militantly racialist and exclusionary. White colonisation of Earth should happen before colonisation of the stars.

You might be right, I am only looking at this from my privileged white male western european aryan perspective- full societal cohesion etcetera. What the honest fuck would the nogs and wops do in space?
Sage because I am off on a tangent.

50% of the population of western countries already does not have work.

You can look up the US stats at bureau of labour.
Canadian ones are here:
statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/dsbbcan-eng.htm

You can factor out certain groups but best case you still have 30% of 18-65 year olds not employed.

If robots take half of our jobs we would only have to work half as long.
If they take 90% of all jobs we only have to work 10% as long. If they take all of our jobs we won't have to work at all and we certainly won't need a crutch like basic loot.

That's true, but we don't have a functional economy right now. It's practically illegal to compete with certain industries, it's illegal to work for less than the minimum wage, taxrates are at an all-time high, regulations are at an all-time high etc. If we made legal again to work, people would find work.

NEETs can't vote, own firearms or are entitled to free speech?

Or are you talking about economic freedom to own land, a business or other assets that allow an individual to accumulate real wealth? Because as stated government assistance is utilized for just that, to control entire sections of the population in a sort of sad complacency of basic needs and to hold that fact like a carrot over their heads if they dare to be productive citizens.

This is an obvious forfeiture. And I agree with you, it's why basic income sounds dangerous. From the pro arguments I've read I haven't been convinced it's a good idea in any way.

Hey every one, great replies, I actually forgot to quote .. which isn't all that relevant for basic income save for the quote about private property and interests being promoted which by and large is why I quoted that and I left in the extra stuff for context.

I've read mein kampf but it's more about the ideology motivating hitler, and the events he's been through that shaped him, I'd be very interested in clear cut policies.

Again, I'd like to iterate this thread is about policies

Wrong, basic income only raises the BOTTOM Margin and those at the top of the income latter would pay far more back in taxes via PRIVATE PROPERTY AND ENTERPRISES.

In a ==NatSoc== country half the fucking shit said in this thread like "but muh bix hood niggas", they'd be sent back to africa, along with all other non hapaloid group members, this is for after multiculturalism has been solved.

Can't say it any more plainly.

Because there would be no approval process, You just get it, and I'd assume if your raising children (properly in a natsoc environment) You'd get money based on the basic needs of the child being met, Oh you can afford every thing? Great put it in a savings account or some shit, it's your money.

Then literally NO ONE has an excuse for being homeless, with the incoming flux of niggerization of the work force soon to be followed by automation, basic income and free boat rides to africa are required.

No one would stop you from say having an online business selling stuff you made woodworking, blacksmithing, or from opening a store, or restaurant and by the time you get of your feet and are paying taxes your no longer dependent.

There will always be some form of lazy piece of shit that doesn't want to do any thing, and for them living on the bottom is just fine.

Right, but what do you propose will occupy us for 90% of the time? I fear a Brave New World scenario more than 1984 tbh.

I might have some insight to that, having a rough past I ended up homeless at 17 which just turned into traveling.

I read the bible, I learned guitar, I practiced my people skills, I know every thing about traveling in north america from guatamala to alaska, I've got my /outdoor/ skills maxed, I'm a professional chef and I write a lot, I learned various graphic design stuff and work on linguistics as well.

It's up to you how you spend your time, not some fucking corporation or government

I agree with your overall point but this part was retarded.

Psychopathy is a Jewish fictional disease, so is narcissism.

That's just the tip of the iceberg on the "psychopath train".

Leftists use this argument for raising taxes and, who would have guessed, it resulted in rich people not paying taxes. In the US around the 50s tax rates on the top income bracket were 90%, which Communists try to argue was proof that their system works since the economy was doing great then, but the thing is that nobody actually paid that 90% tax bracket because they either found ways around it or simply refused to pay it.
Administrative costs aren't even in the slightest the largest part of the costs, faggot. Every single welfare system that has ever existed has had administrative costs take only a small portion of the money allocated to the programs. I can easily tell you have no clue what the fuck you are talking about and only shill for it because then you get to shill for welfare when you use that as an argument as to why it is suddenly good when welfare is bad.

Everybody will become equal, except those in power of giving out the basic-income.

Does it sound familiar?

They fed them and put roof over their heads. That's what money is going to be for.

Basic income should only be for citizens only and should be a substitute to the current welfare system and people can have the option to opt-out for a tax credit if they want to.

Also you pay taxes to the government so you literally already are "enslaved" by the government dumbass because you can't just not file and pay your taxes or else they will yakuza your ass or worse.

I'm not in favor of BI but this is retarded. You're still free to make more money. No one is equalized except the lowest of the low.

I think you mean the leeches are equalised with the actual poor

UBI would probably be the worst thing you could do without secure borders and strict immigration control. Otherwise people from everywhere would flock to your country to collect the livable income and never contribute a goddamned thing.

filteries.com/

According to this page, with a fascist society it is possible.

However you spend 27% more shekels with BI.

wut?

This makes no sense. No one needs welfare if they are entitled to basic income. That's implying basic income still wouldn't be enough to live which moots the whole point of universal basic income in the first place.

Some other thoughts on UBI:
What also bothers me about universal basic income is that I don't see it working in the economic system we have now. Other anons suggested it could work in a NS society, but we aren't that in the current year so I can't those pro-UBI arguments seriously.

If UBI was implemented wouldn't the cost of goods just go up to adjust for the fact that everyone has money to spend? Like your rent and internet bills for example. There is nothing stopping Verizon from now charging x2 for the same service because they know everyone can afford it now.

It would be a lot like how certain industries respond to government subsidies. It doesn't get better for the consumer. If you need examples on this happening IRL then look at the medical industry or college tuitions. Both of those industries are artificially inflated because of the existence of government subsidized loans and medical insurance.

The entire idea of UBI just seems off to me. I honestly can't see it working positively for anyone at the end of the day.

...

THIS IS WHAT YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING BELIEVE.

(33733)
Nice symmetrical digits.

There is undoubtedly a lot of problems with UBI, but nobody really has a better answer for when automation puts most people out of work. That's already begun, and if they raise the minimum wage it'll only accelerate the process.

That implies most people will be put out of work by automation, which would be very difficult to achieve since companies still rely on the people themselves to justify the automation itself and make sure the company actually has the money to automate. It ends up being a negative feedback loop that at one point makes automation unfeasible, you need people that have money to buy your products but people don't have money if they have no job. So really automation making the society poor is a non-existant issue because the very nature of automation for the sake of increasing profit causes it to burn itself out long before it can even hope to reach the doomsday scenario.

If machines can do retail, transportation and fast food better than humans, then over half of people will be out of work.

You can drop the people's wages to keep them on board, but that's not allowed with minimum wage laws. You have a very utopian ideal there that companies won't phase out most workers because people won't be able to buy their shit. Not all companies sell to poor people. Many just sell shit to each other.

Machines still can't do transportation and never will regardless of what the wishful faggots in this thread think, fast food replacing students with machines is because of leftists asking for a higher minimum wage and retail is generally the same thing. Without a minimum wage students would simply do those jobs for experience, since in most cases they need it more than they need the actual money they get from it, this experience also makes it easier to both get a job and ask a higher pay.
It is not utopian, it is very basic demand and supply. Companies are heavily dependent on the economic well-being of the people they sell their shit to, having less customers means they will have to tone down production to waste less resources and to cut prices to ensure that more can afford it. There is a thing called diseconomy of scale, m8.
That is simply using other companies as middle-men, the end-result is still a company selling to an individual that earns money through a job.

Universe 25 is your answer

You're ignorant and stubborn. I'm glad that time will prove you wrong, I only wish I could have the satisfaction of seeing you realize that you were full of shit all those years.

Learn to fucking read, retard. In case you are too retarded to grasp the concept of diseconomy of scale, let me explain it to you.

Most people having no job whatsoever will mean a fuckhuge portion of the population not buying a single fucking thing, this means that the company that took a ten million dollar loan to buy the machines to increase production will have gone to waste. The loan would fuck them hard, as would paying it back, and wasting resources would fuck them in the ass even harder. If the number of people that can afford to buy their product is going down then any investment you put into making more of your product is going to make you lose money. It doesn't have to be the very same company that automates it that suddenly starts to lose profits, as multiple companies simultaneously automate they will all inhibit each other's growth and anyone pushing even further than what can be sustained by the number of people working will cause them to bankrupt themselves. That is why you are a fucking retard for interpreting this as "the rich people will help the poor". It isn't even remotely that, in fact it would be more appropriate to call it rich people trying to eat each other and thus perishing in the process of being such fat fucks.

I understood the point, nimrod. Mine was that this one factor will not prevent mass unemployment.

UBI would take away the power of the SJWs to get people fired from their jobs for saying politically incorrect things. You'd see a huge burst of dissident right activity once UBI were in place. It would neuter the power of the Jews, SPLC, etc.

Arent yuropoors supposed to get ready for bed?

I see it as inevitable. Every year there are fewer jobs to go around. The US currently relies on service positions, and even those jobs are going by the wayside. Supermarket checkers and fast food workers are already obsolete. Even pharmacy workers have been replaced by machines. Retail workers? Most people shop online now, brick and mortar stores are downsizing or closing their doors everywhere. It's only a matter of time before less than a third of our workers are matched with jobs. What are we going to do with the other 2/3rds?

If we have 2/3rds of people without any buying power, then there will be no need for production, and our remaining 1/3rd industry will die. Companies rely on the poorest 2/3rds of Americans to patronize their companies. If they're engaged in waiting in soup lines and nothing else, the remaining businesses (which are also paying all the bills) will fold like Superman on laundry day.

We currently have a huge amount of fake money disappearing into the pockets of bankers and stock brokers. More of that fake money needs to be distributed among the populace, so that there are still people capable of taking out loans and buying stocks. Otherwise, we're finished.

I doubt that a basic income would convince many people who are already working to quit. Working people like their luxuries and a basic income won't afford them the power to buy many luxuries at all.

People are still going to want nice cars, good homes, phones, vacation homes, and other luxury status items. The only people who will quit are people whose labor is already obsolete anyway—fast food workers, retail clerks, and the like. Everyone else who can't be replaced with a machine will get a raise and increased buying power. People who are on the minimum income will be encouraged and inspired to get the training and education that they need in order to get these jobs. The people who are incapable of improving or learning will still be cared for—because only nigger countries let their citizens starve.

That being said, it's too soon to roll out a minimum basic income. There are still too many available jobs. Getting rid of the illegal aliens that are working these jobs should suffice for another generation at least, maybe two.

There's something fundamentally black-pilled about all these pro-redistribution advocates. They seem to be tacitly admitting this idea is just a band-aid. Seems obvious to me that the real solution is to allow the weak to be weeded out. Automation means we don't need this many useless, low-skilled cunts. If you can't hack it, then your bloodline should end.

what makes you think you'll be one of the people who can "hack it", edgemaster?

I'm all in favor of evolution and survival of the fittest, but I'm not so sure about applying it to the current system that we live under. I guess you could say that a superior bloodline would prosper under ANY possible system, but this particular one seems to be selecting for the wrong traits. The people who succeed and prosper in this current system are paradoxically the unworthy ones.

Alternately, you are talking about killing white people along with useless blacks, Mexicans, and Muslims. In a high-trust society, there's no problem with having a large leisure class. Few white people will be satisfied to sit on their heels making $12,000 a year and will struggle to improve themselves. Shitskins will not.

Currently we have a deeply discouraged generation that needs support in the hopes that they will breed a greater generation in the future. If guaranteeing them basic food and housing will encourage them to do something other than wait to die without reproducing, it's worth the money. The white race needs to be kept alive and reproducing while our society is cleansed and reorganized. We can't do that if we starve them out. Don't forget that whites are 60 - 77% of the American population (depending on your definition of "white"). If 2/3rds of society are made redundant, then some of those folks are guaranteed to be white.

Why should we keep redundant people alive? It's simple—so our race won't be wiped out by a simple plague or disaster. We will always need surplus genetic material in order to keep the white race alive and healthy. If 50,000 workers are suddenly wiped out, 50,000 redundants will move up to replace them.

We don't need basic income we need personal robot farmers

Also, consider this: a basic minimum income would allow scores of women to retire from the workforce and get back to the important business of raising white children. A $12000 a year income guaranteed would make this decision less painful for a traditional 2 parent family.

*guaranteed for her, I mean.

That's because they're parasites

Our current socioeconomic system rewards parasitism and punishes honest work.

blyat

cute

how do you explain the brain differences then?
how do you explain the psychopathic behavior?
absolute lack of empathy? inability to understand the concept of consequences or future? learning disability?

There are white, black, brown, and jewish psychopaths, so it's not just race, if you were gonna say that.

This.

Just because you are free does not mean you will waste it, I use my freedom to perfect myself, to consciously sculpt my being to ever higher levels of existence, spiritually, mentally, physically.

My spirit unshackled, my will unbridled
I AM UBERMENSCH!

And I shall create with my Godly powers paradise for all the noble of spirit.

No one would work hard to provide for their own progeny if they knew it was going to be taken away and given to some lazy nigger. Inheritance 'is' eugenic, it's giving advantage to the progeny of the more fit.

The wealthy fags who are against inheritance just end up sending it to Africa or solving nigger diseases so they can feel good about themselves and instead end up overpopulating the planet with gibsmedats.

Nice, but it would be even better with the sauce for the data on the picture, to cut off that denial tactic.

Please leave, lolbergtarian.

Large corporations that pay minimum wage are some of the biggest lobbyists for the welfare state. The idea is that they don't have to pay their employees a livable wage because the government will pick up the slack with things like healthcare, foodstamps, housing, etc… In fact, if I remember correctly, there was some large business (Wal-Mart I think) that included medicare and foodstamp applications as part of their hiring process.

A basic income would have the same wage suppressing effect that welfare has but be worse as there would be no oversight on how people spent the money, leading to the same irresponsible people needing welfare now also needing it along with the basic income.

tl;dr welfare does actually lead to suppressed wages

If robots replace most of the labor, wouldn't that spurr the need for a living wage? (funded by taxing the robots' labor).

Would not a basic income give vendors an excuse to hike up prices because they can work on the assumption that people will always have at least X amount of money in their households?

The problem with money for nothing is that it completely ruins what money even is supposed to represent to begin with. Money are just tokens you get in return for hours spent in your work. It's worthless on it's own, but we give it meaning through the system that has been created.

The poorest people are already getting a basic minimum income with welfare. They would not get any additional benefits if we converted the system from a need-based system to a comprehensive system. We'd just be removing a lot of red tape from how the money is distributed to them.

The people who would be getting more money would be the lower working class and the middle class (and of course the rich, but to them it's pocket change that doesn't make a difference). As such, it shouldn't affect prices on essentials as much, because there won't be a lot of extremely poor people receiving new benefits. These people are more likely to spend the additional money on luxury items like cars or investing in large purchases like houses rather than using it to feed themselves. This is the type of consumerism that will help our economy.

Of course, we need to make sure we don't have a bunch of illegals getting the new Basic Income. Then it really would drive prices on basic things like food, rental housing, and used cars through the roof. We definitely need to prevent non-citizens from getting these benefits.

It's also important to make sure that we don't reward people for having children they can't afford like we do in the current system. Children would not be eligible to collect the Minimum Income until they turned 18. Churches and other charities could step in and provide formula and clothing, but no bigger checks and no larger housing allotments for having extra kids. I can guarantee you that the nog birth rate would drop dramatically pretty quickly. They're only popping out kids right now because they're getting paid for it. They'd stop if it made their lives considerably harder.

It would slow down the number of single moms too. If they don't need to have a baby to get their gibs, they probably won't. There are always accidents and people who are too stupid or selfish to use birth control, but if we had an aggressive program that provided free birth control and abortions to the Minimum Income crowd, we could probably reduce the number of fatherless babies born among the underclass considerably. It would cut the birth rate even more if we rooted out and punished child neglect more harshly. We would have a bunch of former welfare workers who could be diverted to Child Protection Services instead and we'd still save money over the current system.

Coincidentally, the extra money each year might be enough to convince lower working class and middle class couples to have the children they currently feel too financially insecure to have. If the minimum income is $12,000 a year, that means a couple will get an additional $24,000 a year, and that might be enough to convince families to have the wives stay home and raise children instead of working. That will free up some of the remaining jobs.

I use $12,000 a year as an example because that's the per-person average of our current welfare system.

So if someone sticks the tip of their cock in your ass they might as well just go all the way and inject the poz?

Fuck that, take away welfare. Take it away, end it. Let them starve. Welfare is dysgenic, UBI is dysgenic. Let the gibsmedats become homeless and starve in the streets.

OP

The Reason this is a TERRIBLE IDEA

Is b/c all of this basic income would cause huge inflation. the value of the currency would plummet.

Currency must be created by work / services / goods.
When currency is just printed, it destroys everyone's wealth.

The reason (((they))) are pushing universal income…
is b/c they fear a deflationary crash

Your a fucking idiot please in an ideal NatSoc country, we'd all be of the same haploid group and the closest we'd get to nigs would be backwater appalacians and German Texans, which there are a very few number of comparatively to niggers.

Can you timecvcks not perform an thought experiment?

Removing welfare and allowing people to keep what they earn is the best solution. Unfortunately it will never ever happen without a complete collapse. It's political suicide to suggest it. The corporations that profit from stamps, the same ones that throw a massive fit whenever people try to have soda and candy are removed from the approved items list, will spend millions lobbying against you. The people that depend on stamps will vote you out of office.
The money to fund welfare has already been taken from you. It's being taken from you right now. Stolen from your next paycheck. Might as well put everyone on welfare so we all can get some of our money back.

No, they need to die.

How do you think niggers became niggers, you fucking ⚣? Thousands of years of communal thinking - if someone starts getting ahead every nigger relative comes out of the woodwork demanding gibs until there's nothing left. It's the whole reason gommunism is so attractive to them: it's compatible with their mentality.

Enabling that mentality will just bring about more of it and cause a dysgenic effect in the white population. It's already happening. Look at how easily Europe let the mudshits in. They have absolutely no concern for what was once theirs - sharing is caring!

This mentality creates cucks.

What we don't want is for unemployed and stupid Mudslimes to continue having children at the expense of the taxpayer. Welfare allows them to do that now. Basic income would only make the problem worse. We need the opposite of basic income. We need to let people fail.

Responsible workers tend to have children when they know they are in a financially stable situation. Dirty brown immigrants have children whether they can pay for their children or not, and then they expect everybody else to pay for their children. As far as I'm concerned anything that disproportionately helps the Muslim immigrants and takes from the workers is to be opposed at all costs.

oh look…this faggot again

Why should American citizens be allowed to fail (AKA starve) when banks and insurance companies aren't allowed to fail, but are bailed out by the government?

I'd rather subsidize citizens than banks and other Jew-run, corporate welfare recipients.

businessinsider.com/the-too-big-to-fail-problem-is-getting-even-bigger-2016-8

Why must it be one or the other? I would rather subsidize neither. Bad companies should fail. Unemployed people who have children irresponsibly should fail also.

Ever hear of a false choice? No one should get corporate welfare either, but at least they still employ people who actually work even if the fucks at the top are raking in money from the fed to pay them with.

Let's not forget it was niggers and other shit-tier subhumans who caused the banker bailouts by being stupid enough to fall for Jewish low interest schemes. If half our population wasn't as dumb as a fucking box of rocks, they would have had the sense not to put us all in this predicament in the first place.

Kikes love dumb people. Dumb marks are their bread and butter.

Can't handle thought experiment

God you're a dumbfuck, I think you should be chopped up and thrown to the wolves.

Natural selection isn't some fixed fucking thing where the white population started out better than niggers and all we have to do is stay white to maintain it. Our decisions affect our genetics going forward.

So I'm not saying our country won't kick out niggers, I'm saying the dysgenic effect of UBI will, over time, transform us into niggers. It's why Europe is being overrun - a large share of their population has a nigger mentality of gibsmedat so they think of the mudshit slide streaking across their country like a stool across TP as kindred spirits. Far too many had no pride and were living on the dole before the mudshits came. They stopped having children, their productivity declined. Their women became degenerate slags. Their men became fucking cucks.

Socialism and UBI promulgates the cuck gene.

Their children are American citizens who have done nothing wrong, though. Are we to punish children for the sins of their parents now?

Also, the companies taking the most welfare aren't even necessarily failing companies, just the ones that are "job creators" and "too big to fail", like Nike:

cheatsheet.com/business/high-on-the-hog-the-top-8-corporate-welfare-recipients.html/?a=viewall

I'd rather pay low-wage Nike workers $2.09 B than let Nike squeeze Oregon for $2.09 B a year because "Oh, if they close the factory, all those people will lose their jobs". That's grade-A kikery on Nike's part. They're holding Beaverton, Oregon hostage. Better to guarantee those people won't starve, it's probably a lot cheaper than subsidizing Nike. We'd be buying Beaverton back.

All of these companies are doing the same thing: "Give us money, or we'll take the jobs away, and you'll all starve." Minimum income would take away their leverage.

Nice ID.

The problem is that we will soon have more people on welfare than people paying for it, and in democracy you know what that mean.

Picture related.

The whole land would be like that if niggers tried.

You argue like a fucking woman won't somebody please think of the children??? Are you sure you actually possess a pair of balls? You wouldn't have this problem minding other peoples' money if you were actually attending your own. The solution to kike usury and graft isn't to turn everyone into kikes and bring about gommunism.

And yes, I do care about the children. I care about the ones who have brains and potential. I don't give a shit about the encephalitic crotchfruit of braindead retards. Is it a nigger's fault that he's born with a nigger brain? Is it a pretty woman's fault that her snatch smells like roses? No. Evolution teaches us that life's not fair, and our every attempt to make it fair only punishes our best for the sake of our worst.

Fuck that.

And that's the one who deserves to live and pass on his genetics. Everyone else, everyone who piled trash around his plot - that's all they create, and that's why they deserve to die. So something must be done to promote his existence and eliminate theirs - then, given enough time and eugenics, niggers will become a thing of the past.

This is not an argument, this is just a string of insults from someone who probably is someone else's braindead crotchfruit themselves.

A future for white children, remember?!? That's what natsoc is about in the first place, isn't it?

Companies like Nike will eventually take government subsidies, use that money to automate the factory, and throw all those people to the curb eventually anyway. 99% of the workers there could probably be replaced by robots right now. What part of "there will not be enough jobs to go around in the near future" is so hard to understand?

Throwing out the illegals will provide low-paying jobs for the next 20 years or so, and then we're done. We're already at 50% unemployed with no shortage of workers to take the available jobs. This is only going to get worse. Being unemployed will no longer be due to laziness or failure to apply oneself. There won't be anything to apply for. If there are only available jobs for 33% of the population, nepotism and cronyism will provide more than enough workers for those jobs, and anyone who isn't born into the right family or having the right connections will be out in the cold.

The improvement of our race, an application of eugenics, do you fucking remember? The purpose was not simply to fall all over ourselves taking care of every nigger-tier white person out there. Our goal was and remains to become the best we can and promote the best interests of our own race.

You're a fake faggot NatSoc who is only onboard with the idea because you're jealous of the gibs niggers get and just want more for yourself. Fuck off you ⚣✡.

Just look at people currently on welfare and it will give you a picture of what to expect.

If they are going to be given a basic income they should have to relinquish their right to have offspring. I can get behind that because it would actually be a long-term solution.

No argument, just insults. You certainly have a nigger-tier intellect, therefore I'm done with you. You can continue to larp natsoc on your own.

For the rest of you, here's the national socialist welfare programs that Hitler established during the 3rd Reich:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterhilfswerk

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People's_Welfare

⚣

fellas, fellas, I just offered a perfect compromise here

They would just hide their offspring. Do you think they got there legally in the first place?

That's a different issue, obviously nations need to secure their borders first

In Europe, "securing the border" is an orwelian code for "be sure that as many browns can enter as safely as possible".

Still no argument.

Hmmm, what would Hitler do:

Gosh, I guess National Socialist Germans cared about other Germans, regardless of wealth or social class.

Of course, their program could stand some improvements, since "donations" were not really voluntary, but rather mandatory, since one could be prosecuted or fired from one's job for failure to donate or for not giving enough. Rather than being hit up by a can rattler every time one leaves the house, it's more efficient just to take it out of people's taxes.

wtf, i hate civilization now

Wasted effort, mate. Pretty obvious that they're just here to cry about the big bad black man because they don't have any power in real life. Their fantasy of eliminating everyone they deem to be undesirable and subhumans is just that. A fantasy.

If you want the whole thing to florish, you must drawn arbitrary lines and tell individuals: you are respnsible for this part of the world. How good your life will be depend only of the good use you make of this part. Only this way we will have the whole thing used at its full potential. If we all are free to go where things go well, then things would never go well for a long time, nowhere in the world.

To create civilisation is to create borders.

Providing relief after losing a major war and having your country held down and fucked by international kikes is not an argument for UBI.

Your equivocation is a sign of your feeble-mindedness and your continued efforts to use starving children as a shield for your desire to live a life of welfare and NEETbux is truly pathetic.

There is no war on, there is no existential threat, there is no economic depression. This is all about you and your personal lamentations over being weighed, measured and found wanting.

Having white skin will not save you from your sloth. Arbeit macht frei.

No one wants to eliminate anyone, I want them to eliminate themselves in a natural course but you want to keep parasites alive and worse - transform our population into parasites, samefag.

If you want communism go to Holla Forums and pray to Stalin. We're not interested in your fantasies about making money doing nothing.

Now let's take a look at your UBI heroes:

Philippe Van Parijs: French faggot who wants to tax people for speaking English so that people who do not can be taught. Yes, a tax on being white.

Ailsa McKay: feminist and major SJW. Cryptokike.

André Gorz✡: Marxist Jew who committed suicide with his wife.

Hillel Steiner: Maplefag and left-lolbertarian SJW

Peter Vallentyne: Oh look, another left-lolbertardian SJW, dual citizen Maplefag and American in true kike fashion.

Guy Standing: SJW and professor of African studies. Wow, looks like the nigger philosophy rubbed off on this cryptokike.

Addendum: And none of them have ever had real jobs, they're all (((academics))) on the dole. Not even a hint of military service, nothing. They're SJWs teaching at SJW universities and poisoning the minds of young people.

Food stamps and section 8 keep food and real estate prices high. See usa and europe compared to rent and food prices in a place like mexico.

After all the roads are built, after all the bots are in place, when the only thing left to do is manage cities and populations, bread and circus in place what exactly do you expect people to do for money??

BI is a necessity, We are facing the problems we are today because none of the fucking work people do is meaningful or has impact in any way that is tangible to them, I.E They already have NO PURPOSE, if you have half a brain you would be well familiar with these concepts and rat city, because when you nix survival in the ass, and then you nix motivation in the ass, we come to a development bottle neck where we are merely maintaining our cities, not building them, our grandparents and great grand parents built the autobahn and the highways and rail roads they were doing things and never had time to wander to the edge of their enclosure so to speak.

Money is arbitrary and your a fucking kike arguing for money because kikes have control over they economies. You clearly don't understand we're moving forward in terms of production and printing, and it's time to think ahead. Niggers are only a problem to those suffering identity politics, once the gibs dry up they will disperse and leave.

There are so many more things more important to life than money and you should look at pavlovs hierarchy of needs to get an idea

The cuck gene? Are you fucking serious nigger, it's called our altruisim towards us Promagas Homosapien being exploited by neanderkikes and Australopitheniggus

Reminder that Nazi Germany had a form of basic income you dumb shits.

What is wrong with this dream Holla Forums?