What does Holla Forums think of Camille Paglia?

It's probably newfags. No actual leftist would hold a lot of the opinions people on Holla Forums have.

Also Nina Power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Camille "Foucault is wrong because he's too hard to read :'(((" Paglia

what's wrong with her

While we're on the thinly veiled topic of Focuault, there's an excellent chapter written by Richard Marsden in PDF in which he puts Foucauldian theory to work alongside Marx's critique.

Worth a read on its own merit.

This her critique of modern feminism is spot on.

That's not a straw, user, that's Charles Koch's dick.

sommers is a total shill

this tb

...

lol, what insipid commentary. I figured she'd be pretty bad but man.

She overextends and is hopelessly inconsistent. Says a lot of bullshit about things she knows little about. Never heard anything illuminating from her. May be a bit unintelligent to boot.

Gail Dines is sort of the goto feminist if you're looking for socialist feminists that think that 3rd wave is bullshit. And she's pretty illuminating, if not a little caustic and elitist.

People recommending feminists on an image board, whodathunk that?

Her views are wahtever she finds to be "controversial" at the moment.
Hipster ,liberul turned lolbert.Basically a hipster attention-whore that happens to be an academic.

Yeah, modern feminism is divorced from radical politics and is fucking useless, but so is this cunt sooo?

Also fags on here like her cause they blame Foucault for idpol and she shits on Foucault

sigh

discarded

First of all, she works with the American Enterprise Institute, who has proud feminist leaders such as Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich(Who she has both worked for). It's nothing but an ancap organization uses selected and unethical data to fund and push agenda.

With very libertarian leanings. She's even criticized Bernie Sanders, and admitted that she's a conservative Democrat on Twitter.

SHE ONLY CALLS HERSELF A FEMINIST BECAUSE LOBBYISTS PAY HER TO DO IT

She was never one of us in the first place.

Gail Dines goes overboard with anti-pornography (although not more overboard than the consumption of pornography that goes on).

Gail's analysis of third wave feminism, the capitalism infecting it, and her critique of big-beauty and porn *culture* is spot on.

Camille is porky. A dumb right-winger. Anyone who thinks differently is being too desperate in their search of a prominent left wing female MRA.

/end thread

What do you mean? There isn't anything wrong with fapping to porn.

t. Gail Dines

pls stop shilling for that fat insecure weirdo

I don't think this commentary is too far off. The porn industry relies on the "naive and submissive" type tropes that are characteristics of children. Even the ones where the women are in charge, the roles are only just reversed, with the male characters being the naive, childlike ones who do what their elders tell them.

your point?
fapping to someone who acts submissive sexually is not the same thing as wanting to dominate and control them outside of the bedroom.
Also, and this needs to be said, but areas in the US with greater usage to pornography correlate with lower rates of sexual violence.
So unless Ms. Dines has any actual evidence that jacking off to playboys leads to child rape I don't see why anyone should listen to her.

I have no idea what she's said on the subject. But this wasn't reflected in the quote. This is just one argument that I don't really disagree with; I don't think it means anything about how healthy people act in the world outside of porn.

It's fairly obvious that she's imaging that pornography naturally leads to child exploitation. I think you're being disingenuous. Like the other user said places with high porn consumption have lower rates of sex crimes then areas with lower pornography consumption and more restrictive porn laws. As porn has become more plentiful and easily accessible, the rates of sex crimes have only gone down with time. The kind of anti-porn hysteria she advocates for isn't supported by empirical evidence. It's the same flawed line of reasoning that inspired horrible stuff like the comic book code or the crusade against violence video games. Porn is just a reflection of the desires and fantasies of the average person in our society. It's a fairly silly notion to think that young men have to be brainwashed into wanting to have sex with attractive women willing to fulfil their every sexual desire.

virgin manchild detected

Are you part of that nofap cult or something? Most men regularly masturbate to porn. There's nothing unhealthy or unusual about it in moderation. Fuck off weirdo

Gail Dines is insane.

Inaccuracy aside, since I've never known a man in a relationship who didn't also have to fap to porn, why would a feminist shame a man for being virgin? Oh that's right, it's pretty standard these days for feminists to have no fucking self awareness when they're being hypocritical and genderist.

All these fucking female tribalists, We were supposed to be getting rid of this shit, but they decided to take pride in the spooks that enslave them because they're too shallow to have anything to define themselves as individuals.

She's a typical American 'intellectual' whose sole gimmick is being critical of feminism. A non-entity otherwise.

Holy shit I didn't know it was possible to be this retarded. Yes, when two people do things together, one tends to be dominant. It's easier when one person takes the lead instead of two people jockeying for control. You can't both lead in a dance, nor can you both follow. It's like you've literally never interacted with other human beings.

This is so fucking bad.

...

yeah, like I said she's caustic. And
what cherrypicking

honestly, modern feminists are putting way too much legitimacy into pornography. That there are still socialist second-wave feminists still alive and annoying the capitalist feminists is hilarious and welcomed.

I don't give a shit if she thinks porn is evil and all men that use porn are horrible. I do give a shit about the creeping authoritarianism in some of her policy proposals, she's not particularly left-libertarian. BUT if women were rid of their sexual insecurities, which Gail is all for, I wouldn't really care that much if internet pornography was seen as terrible in a social sense.

Sexually secure people don't see porn as evil :^)

leftypol will like her because she doesn't have nice things to say about feminism (not that you should) but ironically she's procapitalist–just kinda goes to show what people are against {{{{idpol}}}} today.

Sexually secure people probably also shouldn't see pornography as a source of empowerment.

I want the Sommers meme to die.

If Camille was a good Marxist she'd stop yelling at clouds and realize that the "postmodernism" in academia that she hates so much is a direct result of post-Fordism and neoliberal ideology.

In other words, bitch needs to read some Harvey.

Nah. It shows you just how cancerous idpol is when everyone from Marxists to neofascists are against it.

Shes not a Marxist at all.

Every politic is an identity, a social contract moreover, a relegation to individual responsibility but likewise the epitomized delegates. Identity politics is cancerous insofar as thou shalt have the world kneel, as thou shalt impregnate the world with vanities upon vanities.

yea, come back to me on that when there is a single source of non-profit, consensual, non-exploitative pornography that involves heterosexual women in any meaningful amount

not saying it's not possible, but it simply doesn't exist for more than like a year or two

right, given how every part of the industry works at the least

Camille *is* a neoliberal moron. Gail Dines is the only Marxist being discussed in this thread.

why is there so much sjw apologism on this board

i thought this was leftypol, not leftytumblr

define sjw
hard mode: do so in a way that actually reflects the traditional/real definition

yeah, no
anti-pornography in the context of exploitation is EXTREMELY common in the left

if you want to just bathe and legitimize capitalism's horrors with some sort of nihilistic postmodern detachment, there's always the alt-right for you

people who care about identity politics more than class politics

wrong
"justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and p rivileges within a society. It's the p rivilege part that triggers you. But pretty every single left group and politician in the last century has promoted social justice and most have even used that term.

The add-on of "warrior" is just a smear by righties to make lefties feel overzealous and associated with some strawman things they created from what used to be minor parts of the internet (agency-obsessed feminists etc..)

Every board becomes a Tumblr, especially when you let your principles go unchecked and your posts a mere symptom of a failure's criticism. /leftypill/ was doomed the moment it began to feign ideological unity, which was at its commencement.

Professional neoconservative edgelord who makes money by saying controversial things. Believes that filthy rich pop singers are "feminist icons". A relic of the 90's "culture wars" who hangs out with American Enterprise Institute people. Thinks Star Wars Episode III is "the greatest work of art in recent memory"

In the words of Molly Ivins: "Sheesh, what an asshole"

the muh privilege part does not trigger me. class muh privilege is a real thing and is a real problem, whereas identity politics' version of muh privilege revolves around idiotic factors that are much better explained by economic class.

sjws care for the people they deem oppressed but they don't know why they're supposedly oppressed. they're ultimately stupid fucks because they're detrimental to the well-being of the working class by shifting the discussion away from economics and towards stupid shit like identity which doesn't help anyone

identity politics is cancer and you should be ashamed for even thinking sjws are what leftists have been for 100 years. that's just fucking wrong.

I think you mean:

Camille "Putting a Spike Heel in the Lacanian Real" Paglia
Camille "The Gal who Blew up the École Normale" Paglia
Camille "One-Woman Morphine Pill" Paglia
Camille "Not a Shabbos Goy for the Frankfurt Boys" Paglia
Camille "Going Mental on the Continental" Paglia
Camille "Going Psychotic on the Semiotic" Paglia
Camille "50 Shades of Postmodernist AIDS" Paglia
Camille "Michel & bell Straight to Hell" Paglia
Camille "Mass Destruction for Deconstruction" Paglia
Camille "Pushed Michel onto a Car he Fell" Paglia
Camille "Tossin' a Dart at Barthes" Paglia
Camille "Strangle Every Structuralist" Paglia
Camille "Baudrillard Feathered and Tarred" Paglia
Camille "Rhizome Raider" Paglia
Camille "Gruesome Ghoul of Ecole" Paglia
Camille "Panic at the Discourse" Paglia
Camille "Cutler of Butler" Paglia
Camille "Word Salad Tosser" Paglia
Camille "Bustin' a Shell in bell" Paglia
Camille "Willing to Discipline and Punish" Paglia
Camille "Biology Degrees Bring Gender Studies to their Knees" Paglia
Camille "Cutting Open Michel's Trojan" Paglia
Camille "Exposing Gloria's Phantasmagoria" Paglia
Camille "Raping Gloria with Intense Euphoria" Paglia
Camille "Porkin' the Dworkin" Paglia
Camille "Deport Levi-Strauss to Laos" Paglia
Camille "Just Say Nein to Da Sein" Paglia

What in the fuck kind of porn are you watching?

Okay buddy. What do you not watch movies or play video games either? Yeah I don't give a shit a out lifestyle nonsense. Newsflash there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. You unwilling participate in crimes against humanity every single day. You're not going to gulit trip me for jerking off to porn videos. Especially since porn stars at least make a decent salary unlike the exploited workers that manufactured the electronic device that you used to type up that moronic post of yours.

I don't.

First time I legitimately loled here in a while

so little critical thinking ability….
You really think these women are empowered?
Go to Tumblr or Holla Forums please ——-→

Yeah there's a difference between consuming it and actively legitimizing it.

Do you live in the real world?

How could you possibly not know that amateur porn is a thing? I get it, some amateur porn probably has some form of exploitation behind it, but to claim that every woman that was ever filmed having sex secretly didn't want it is ridicolous.

right, how many women are the ones leaking their sex videos and telling strangers to cum on their pics? It's the guys doing that. The women doing that exist, but they are so few that they are basically just PMing people and skyping people. There's no website for non-profit, consensual, non-exploitative pornography

What does it mean there is no website? You can access amateur porn in any site that collects porn. People upload it there. There are amateur videos of girls masturbating, alone. Who's forcing them to upload those videos? I don't claim the porn industry is a magic fairyland but i'm not in the mind of every woman in existence, I don't see why some women wouldn't enjoy making amateur porn. That's extremely common in swingers subculture i believe.

Exibitionism is a well enstablished fetish for both sexes, I really don't see why you have to reject it.

it does happen I guess, but not even close to what you're imagining.

Not really, take a look at chaturbate. There's about one female exhibitionist for every 300 women desperate for money, and 300 male exhibitionists

You're not getting the point. When a woman masturbates and sends it to a boyfriend or a few sexual partners, and then those people she sent it to upload it to a porn site, that's not consensual. If you do think that's consensual you are far gone, there's a reason men who upload those vids don't tell their partners they did it and maintain secrecy on those sites.

So r/gonewild etc don't exist?

Take out the boyfriends posting gf and wife,pics, and you got a,bunch of novelty seekers and rate me type posts. The real female exhibitionists,which do,exist are few in number
,The last thing on the mind of the majority of female,posters,is,guys wanking it to them.

I concede that Reddit gone wild could be one example of a model for a new type of porn. But hopefully one that goes beyond body image issues. The big problem is making women feel safe and anonymous. Screencapping is killing user cybersex and porn.

I think Gail Dines main issue is that we take it for granted how violent and terrible porn actually is, especially for women. A lot of those problems are basically non-existent outside of the tube sites, especially when the actors and actresses have more say and dignity in their work.

This could be true, but how would we know?

smh

I'm not even saying she's right about all her claims. Who's seriously prepared to say that the porn industry has zero problems (aside from the typical ones caused by capitalism)?

So, we agree that female exibitionists do exist, I really wouldn't know how to get any number, if you have statistics on male vs female exibitionism i'd like to see them. But aren't you already admitting that non exploitative form of pornography is possible? I don't care how rare, that's the direction in which the genere can go.

Also, i hope we agree on the fact that female sexuality is still frowned upon, don't you think it's likely that voluntary female exibitionists will increase in numbers when the old prejudices are left behind?

I never said anything about empowerment. I said porn isn't the worst industry out there and more exploitive any other niche of the entertainment industry. What do you think video games developers are empowered by working brutal hours with no job security? It's all waged labor at the end of the day. At least porn stars make a decent salary. In fact, I didn't even mention women in my post as far as I can tell. I said pornstars male or female. Sounds like your desperately trying to fit me into some little strawman you have about "sex positive" feminists. Which I am not. I never said that porn was "empowering". I'm saying that you're acting like all porn is child pornography or something and that for some bizarre nonsensical reason I shouldn't watch porn. Yet, it's completely fine for me to enjoy other forms of entertainment and products made through waged slavery or forced labor. Its just a double standard because you clearly infantilize women. Which is your problem not mine. I'm going to continue jerking off to porn whenever I feel like it without a hint of remorse or gulit.

I've never paid for or given advertisement money to porn sites or porn producers. So, I don't see how I'm "legitimizing" it. You do far more to "legitimize" forced labor every time you drink a cup of coffee or buy a new computer or tablet then me masturbating to porn. Which isn't relevant because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Again do you not have a favorite movie or TV series ? Are you "legitimizing" the exploitive film and television industries when you enjoy watching it?

Porn isn't particularly violent or terrible. I don't even know the kinds of stuff Gail Dines is watching but post porn is just people fucking in crazy positions on camera. Especially now in the era of "Gonzo" porn where the camera and film making process are well known to the audience. Even if it was violent or whatever there isn't anything wrong with violent media. Some people enjoy rough sex. As long as the actors and actresses aren't getting hurt in the process there's nothing wrong with enjoying some dungeon play porn or whatever. Pornography consumption is not correlated with violence and sex crimes. Even if that's her issue with it's a position that isn't not supported by empirical evidence. In fact, it seems like it's the opposite the more porn that's easily available the lower the rates of sexual crime. Like I said previously it's like the comic book code or the crusade against violence video games. Thear positions are based on fear mongering and American puritanical values not facts or available information.

>>>Holla Forums

It's worth a shot and it exists currently in ridiculously small quantities. Any large scale effort would have to be non-profit, *consensual*, and non-exploitative. And that's not easy for many different reasons unrelated to the internet even.

>Don't you think it's likely that voluntary female exibitionists will increase in numbers when the old prejudices are left behind?

If gender norms, prejudices, bad sex education, lack of privacy on the net, etc were thrown out the window, yea there would probably be an increase. I am interested in ways to subvert gender roles (and not in a Tumblr ID pol way) and possibly see if there can be a non-profit porn and cybersex site made that doesn't scare most women the fuck away. There's potential in Omegle and Snapchat like technologies.

*There's potential in Omegle and Snapchat like technologies.
But… adapted on a more public scale with more safeguards.

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