How does Holla Forums feel about the whole trans-humanism movement and the coming cyberpunk future? Can we stop it? Should we stop it? Does it not seem that in society today we worship the progression of technology and science as well? If Darwinian evolution is true why then don't we just practice eugenics, it's just applied biology.
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Marx couldn't forsee the Cyberpunk future. Yet his communist alternative remains the only way out.
And we ARE trying to stop it.
noun, (used with a singular verb)
1.
the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, especially by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics)
Eugenics =/= Biopunk or whatever.
Cautiously optimistic. It'll be interesting at least.
No. You'll be about as successful as the workers who tried to smash the mechanical looms.
Nope. Even if you somehow succeeded in halting scientific progress, the only thing you'd achieve would be dooming our species to die a slow death to resource depletion and the eventual death of our sun.
Science and technology let us do good things as well as bad. You'd change your tune very quickly if you lost an arm and wanted a prosthetic. It's thanks to technology that you're even able to make a shitpost like that in the first place.
Natural selection is slow. It would take millions of years and trillions of lives wasted to achieve anything. It's like asking why we don't just swim everywhere when we have boats and planes.
Luddites
en.wikipedia.org
Luddism isn't so much about destroying machinery, cause it took r jobs.
It's about replacing workers with machines, without finding anything else for the workers to do.
In the same sence, the cyberpunk dystopia, removes the need for work, but doesn't turn the workers into anything usefull. Thus, they become rentable objects for the rich.
So, it's not about stopping the progress, rather changing the system.
My prediction for the Post-Singularity future is that emerging biotechnologies like gene therapy, human genetic engineering, artificial limbs ect will be products made almost exclusively for the upper classes, firstly due to the fact that most new technologies are extremely expensive before them become more efficient and before production methods improve, and secondly by design. The elites will maintain a high price ceiling on this new tech in order to keep it for themselves and maintain not only their economic superiority, but also their biological superiority as well.
Eventually the separate classes will slowly begin to resemble separate species as the physical and cognitive abilities of the Bourgeois increase, and as this class begins to literally speciate into a kind of super-Bourgeois. Meanwhile, thanks to the welfare state, mass immigration and dysgenic fertility we will begin to see an increasingly mixed, increasingly degraded and increasingly brazilianised underclass develop.
How would Communism solve this situation? Technological development would continue to occur under a Communist society would it not? As much as I am loathe to admit this the Soviet Union did make major advancements in various fields of science and technology, unless you're endorsing some form of Anarcho-Primitivist Communism.
The problem with this plan is that unless such a Communist revolution were to occur simultaneously everywhere at once, while one nation is transforming its system in the way you describe other nations will continue to peruse technological advancement and capitalist expansion. This will only cause your Communist nation to grow less competitive against the Capitalist nation, less able to defend itself due to its inferior technology, and increasingly less able to maintain its sovereignty.
The story goes like this:
Earth is captured by a technocapital singularity as renaissance rationalitization and oceanic navigation lock into commoditization take-off. Logistically accelerating techno-economic interactivity crumbles social order in auto-sophisticating machine runaway. As markets learn to manufacture intelligence, politics modernizes, upgrades paranoia, and tries to get a grip.
The body count climbs through a series of globewars. Emergent Planetary Commercium trashes the Holy Roman Empire, the Napoleonic Continental System, the Second and Third Reich, and the Soviet International, cranking-up world disorder through compressing phases. Deregulation and the state arms-race each other into cyberspace.
By the time soft-engineering slithers out of its box into yours, human security is lurching into crisis. Cloning, lateral genodata transfer, transversal replication, and cyberotics, flood in amongst a relapse onto bacterial sex.
Deus Ex distilled all political arguments into two clear camps, anarchism and capitalism. Without taking sides, it points out the benefits of capitalism while at the same time showing you how aweful the world has become with it. It then offers anarchism as the only way to stop corruption, as the ultimate philosophy of anarchists is that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Is technology soley a capitalistic concept? Well first it was Soviet Russia that got into space first, and it wasn't a capitalistic country. The scientific process itself is both democratic, meritocractic, and an open process as a socialist society should be. Even Tesla wanted to distribute electric power to all, but is surgar daddy JP Morgan said no because he couldn't sell it. Perhaps if Tesla was funded by a socialist society things could have been different.
Humans are amazing machines, but I have no doubt we will build better machines eventually. At some point in the future there will be machines which can out-perform you at literally any conceivable task.
For the last few thousand years our society has defined by people by the jobs they do. People's names even come from their ancestors' jobs. At some point we're going to have to start figuring out how to define ourselves when we don't have work to do. People will have to start asking themselves what they would enjoy doing, rather than looking for any menial task which will let them pay the bills.
If people keep being obsessed with trying to be useful, this transition is going to be very rough.
None of this is wrong though.
We either break out of meat space or we should embrace the coming heat death.
With regards to acceleration, the problem with Land is that he thinks speed is the same as the rate of producing capital. It is the rate of acceleration that must be increased, to "accelerate the process".
Hence the obsession of the right with communication, disintegrating the false narrative of the Cathedral. But this is naive in a future where bio-engineering exists K-selection tactics are meaningless. There is no authentic multiplicity ready to usurp the state apparatus, so while it becomes more technocratic, more cold and more alien, the closer we arrive at the singularity. Which will be perfectly global, distributed by the market, the alien intelligence will have brought the seeds for evolution. Communication technologies used for control will become schizo weapons of techno-mutants, Those who live in the past, security, state and coercion can only go so far when you have advanced AI and 3d printed grenades. Eventually the hivemind will revolt, the capitalists will shriek but the hivemother will shriek to them you are not "effective enough", and the little celibate machines of control and resentment will die one by one, while the hive takes control.
The future does not belong to the right or left, it belongs to the collective species consciousness (the final realization of mankind as human species being according to Marx) which is communism, Capital will become the passage of evolution towards merging with the producing machine (the tool augmenting man). When the process is complete Capital will have decoded all the flows and arrived at absolute entropy. This absolute entropy will the be the passage to a leveled universal system , in effect the global economy will become one large organism, administered by a horizontal communication network that runs on code, running more efficiently than beyond our wildest dreams.
Techno utopia is passe, embrace the Hive my fellow drones!
Technoautisms and deleuzian epiphinies in neochina
So basically we are all heading towards destruction. :(
All species head towards destruction. Each generation necessarily replaces the last but is not quite the same as the last. The rate of change is just going to accelerate significantly in the near future.
No we have to evolve to level 3, there is no other way, move from 3d to K-space.
It is negentropy which is death, lack of of space lack of activity and movement. we must purge ourselves meat-space sentimentality and become viruses, cold, mechanic , nomadic and viral. Infect the dogma of production with the dogma of acceleration, scramble the security state of communication and deny to the system reproductive rights (no more meat puppets!). Embrace multiplicity, complexity, ambiguity. No more false universalisms! No democracy other than the democracy of matter!
Evolve into a super-organism or die.
Yes, this is exactly why we can't go on with capitalism!
It will make the machines more important than the humans. Even than the human machines.
And better human machines will be on higher class than lesser human machines.
In the end, only few human machines remain, they are now more machine than human and thus ends mankind.
Or, transhumanis is never materialised and simply fullautomation brings the end of capitalism and the begining of techno-barbarism.
If Kurzweill is right with his technological singularity prediction and that there will be superhuman Artifical Intelligence, than i don't see why the human species even needs to survive. The superhuman AI will be a new species and humanity won't be the most intelligent species anymore on the earth. We will be to AI what monkeys are to us. Are we interested in somehow technologically enhancing monkey brains to bring them up to par? No, we aren't. So why would the AIs be interested in enhancing us? The technological singularity will lead to a new robot class that will from then on rule the world and humanity will then become just another animal species along with the other animals and we will probably go back to hunter & gatherer lifestyle.
We won't go back to being hunter-gatherers. I imagine we'll take on the role of pets/children. We'll be looked after by the AIs and they won't ask anything in return. They might even find us entertaining at times.
They might. But we would kinda become desillusioned about ourselves. Much of our culture is based on delusions of grandeur about ourselves. We believe to be the special little children of God or God's ourselves. We believe that our actions are important for our destiny. If we become pets and the robots from then on rule the world, do science, do philosophy, make art, write literature, build civilizations etc. then what's there left for us to do? Eating, sleeping, fucking? Our intellectual endeavours won't have a purpose anymore. We won't make any great discoveries anymore, only the robots do. There won't be a need for political revolution anymore. The robots will manage us. So we will become no different than other animals. Eating, sleeping, fucking.
I wouldn't mind a life like that, but you're right that many people would. I guess we can let the AIs figure out how to make everyone happy.
But i suspect the AIs would have no interest to make us happy. They would instead simply euthanize us. Why keep us alive? We are not build to be happy to begin with. So if the AI's goal is to increase the overall happiness in the universe, then it would be best to euthanize everyone who is simply not capable to become happy anyway.
If you had Godlike superpowers why would you keep flawed species alive and try to make them happy instead of completely redesigning the whole fucking world and creating a completely new species? Why try to make mosquitoes happy and somehow enhance their tiny brains or awkwardly try to evolve them into a new species by eugenics instead of simply designing a new species from scratch?
That's the bad end. We should try not to let that happen. That means we have to build the AIs to have a sense of empathy and a desire to incorporate the same sense of empathy into any future AIs.
Is it really the bad end? Imaging the AI has a thousandfold more potential for happiness than us? Why should we clinge to our survival as a species? Isn't that a kind of racism? Why are we so important that we need to survive as a species?
I mean if you feel bad about humanity becoming extinct, because you identify with it, you could simply identify with the robots instead and consider them as humanity's children which are the next step in evolution and which will become much happier than humans would ever be capable to. Just like you would wish for your own real children to be happy.
Humanity has fulfilled its purpose. It can now die.
It isn't bad in the long run but it's bad for the individuals.
Reducing humanity to such basal things. How boring.
You underestimate the potetial of engineering ability of hordes of socially awkward nerds, who would pour themselves into their work when they realize that such efforts to trash the capitalism everywhere would stop the enormous alienation of socially awkward nerds everywhere else.
But we as humans still have intelligence, fairly advanced cognitive abilities and most importantly the ability to create that superhuman artificial intelligence.
If anything, then our superhuman AI will be having reasoning similar to humans, only faster.
So it would be like Ford model T as humans and Tesla model S as the AI.
Giving the robots science, philosophy, philosophy, art, writing, etc. would be a mistake. What will there be left for us to do? And also if robots take care of some of these things, they would also understand that the desire to be useful is one of human desires.
Because when one feels useless, then it is a bad feeling.
Consider this.
The robots don't need to exist in 1G gravitational field. We on the other hand have to, or else we grow weak.
Maybe we send the robots to the moon, mars, asteroid fields and earth will be a human reservation, where humans will be left to do human stuff, but in communism of course.
The time would be of no meaning to the superhuman robots as well, due to their immortality, so they could also explore other planets, and maybe become the aliens to some other world when someone there has a theory like Posadism. Maybe the superhuman AI will spread communism to other worlds.
Cyberpunk >>> any kind of socialism/gommunism
Tracer Tong ending errytime.
Authoritarian/totalitarian doctrines need to leave.
Libertarian alternatives with reasonably regulation is ALWAYS the better solution.
But the problem is how we control OURSELVES not the system
We as individuals need to work towards a goal on our own understood ideals.
We need to know why we must build that building, repair that reactor, fight that war.
Control of the masses is just creating more evil.
That's why I think we WILL modify ourselves.
True communism by our own free will alone and no need for enforcement.
That is the direction the left needs to head.
It's fallen into the same trap as the right extreme.
The individual should come first.
The society will natural come after if they are ALL informed on what they should do.
That is why I browse both Holla Forums and now this forum.
When did I say "Authoritarian"???
When you mentioned Marx.
His version of communism is deeply flawed and subversive.
Almost like he deliberately missed out on key issues and aimed for authoritarian communism.
His books were aimed for controlling the masses, not freeing the masses from slavery.
I prefer post-marxism. The reaction to it.
That's the correct direction for left ideals. It epitomises liberty and is nearly feasible.
Marxism is an evolving science.
Don't be preoccupied with Marx…
…
After all…
I didn't mention Lenin…
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY! WE NEED A VANGUARD AND TO GET THE REACTIONARY COUNTER-REVOLUTION UP AGAINST THE WALL!
You see I really don't like that mentality.
You can lead a horse to water..
I prefer to have the animal think for itself, sort out it's decisions and take the water.
And I don't want to trick the horse into drinking the water. It needs to thirst for the water. It needs to know for itself what is the poisoned water.
Another thing. The Left v Right argument is wearing thin.
It's definitely become an authoritarian v libertarian thing.
Then also a nationalist v globalist thing.
Then a traditionalist v progressive thing.
The left and right thing needs to go. We need adherence AND flexibility. We need individualism AND socialism.
I think this thread is on the right track.
It's a way of getting the horse to think for itself AND play for the team.
It may be a solution we may feel is incorrect/problematic to an extent, yet may be the best solution to these problems.
You see…
you're on the first train to the gulag already
We can have different ways to socialism… Some of us are anarkidschists…
Not me.. but some of us…
and will be kronstaded
We could all … get along …or get checka after you!
I can see why you would say that.
Because you use socialism ironically the same way people use nationalism. The difference?
You think yours is a global view of the world.
Know where I'm going with this buddy?
I'm about to suggest something drastic. What if we divided that world into districts or NATIONS like the soviets did.
Eventually we will have to if communism wins.
I only see one inevitable solution for both the left and right.
National Socialism. It's not just right, it's clearly also left.
And it needs to flexible. NEEDS to be.
Why? to transfer production to parts of the globe.
You've been fighting nazies when infact they are your kin.
Personally?
I'm a libertarian, and I think that will be the real question - how do we allow individuals to remain to themselves.
also a gulag IS just a death/concentration camp
I had just a nightmare of AI taking control of earth. Scary shit.
National Socialism!
Double the wings, double the fun!
Seriously though, Marxism isn't Stalinism. Any killing will be purely defensive.
… Were the fuck has the autocorrect to Not Socialism, BO?
Probably ironic with your reference to Evola, but even Marx recognized that humans aren't happy with eating, sleeping, fucking and mere consumerism. See Marx theory on the alienation. Yes, t is fucking retarded to reduce human beings to mere animals and completely disregard their entire psychological needs.
I'll pass.
just read german ideology ffs
Was Deleuze the only man who fore saw this?
Fucking transhumanism is just the rapture for atheists. This is how you sound.
You clearly don't understand the argument.