ITT: WW2 General

back to cuckchan

lol sage

...

lol sage

...

What are we sliding?

I'm not sliding anything as far as I'm aware.

Hitler didn't want war with Britain and France.

He didn't want a war with Poland either but invaded as a result of terror attacks on German minorities trapped within the Polish Korridor. The Polish government's refusal to accept an East Prussian land bridge as well as the incorporation of Danzig into the Reich to safeguard the minorities led to the crisis (see Polish Corridor and Free City of Danzig).

"According to the 1910 census, the German Empire lost to Poland a population of 2,962,462 in areas that became part of Poland without participating in the plebiscite, and 985,075 people from plebiscite territories, a total of 3,947,537 people of whom about 1,670,000 were Volksdeutsche and the rest ethnic Poles. About 600,000 Germans in the ceded territories belonged to a closed settlers' territory. German emigration from the lost provinces to the Reich assumed staggering proportions. While the Austrian, Russian and Prussian censuses reported 2,188,683 ethnic Germans within the area to be ceded to Poland at Versailles for the year 1910, the Polish censuses listed 1,036,000 in 1921 and only 741,000 for the year 1931."

Reference: A Lesson Forgotten: Minority Protection Under the League of Nations : the Case of the German Minority in Poland, 1920-1934, by Christian Raitz von Frentz, p 171.

"German political scientist Stefan Wolff, Professor at the University of Birmingham, says that the actions of Polish state officials after the corridor's establishment followed "a course of assimilation and oppression".[65] As a result, a large number of Germans left Poland after the war: According to Wolff, 800,000 Germans had left Poland by 1923,[65] according to Gotthold Rhode, 575,000 left the former province of Posen and the corridor after the war,[66] according to Herrmann Rauschning, 800,000 Germans had left between 1918 and 1926,[66] contemporary author Alfons Krysinski estimated 800,000 plus 100,000 from East Upper Silesia,[66] the contemporary German statistics say 592,000 Germans had left by 1921,[66] other Polish scholars say that up to a million Germans left.[66]"

Reference: Polish Corridor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regarding the circumstances in the summer of 1939:

Narrator: "All across Poland, the so-called 'pogroms' (lynch-mob attacks associated with ethnic cleansing) against the minorities begin. In Galicia, Ukrainians are detained, while Germans are forcibly deported to the Polish interior by the thousands. German stores are boycotted, their farms torched, and ethnic Germans are physically assaulted, in the open, on city streets, and on three separate occasions, Polish air defenses open fire upon German Lufthansa (civilian airline) transport planes en Route to Königsberg (now Kaliningrad).

In July and August of 1939, facing increasingly violent attacks, a wave of ethnic German refugees is forming, and increasing in size, with each passing day. Finally, the minority Germans begin trying to make their way to the free state of Danzig, and to Germany proper, but those who to try to escape, also put their lives at risk. Night after night, Polish border officials shot at the fleeing Germans. Nonetheless, many would try to make their way to safety, and freedom.

Shortly before the official outbreak of war, there were already 80,000 ethnic Germans in refugee camps in both Danzig and the German Reich."

Reference: Hitlers Krieg - Sechs Jahre, die die Welt erschüttern, SPIEGEL SPECIAL 2/2005, Alle Rechte vorbehalten; Vervielfältigung nur mit Genehmigung der SPIEGEL-Verlag Rudolf Augstein GmbH & Co. KG.

For months prior to the 1939 invasion, German newspapers and politicians like Adolf Hitler accused Polish authorities of organizing or tolerating violent ethnic cleansing of German nationals living in Poland.[6]*[7]*

Reference: Gleiwitz incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*REFERENCE (fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/resource/document/HITLER1.htm):

Adolf Hitler, Sept 1st, 1939: "For months we have been suffering under the torture of a problem which the Versailles Diktat created - a problem which has deteriorated until it becomes intolerable for us. Danzig was and is a German city. The Corridor was and is German. Both these territories owe their cultural development exclusively to the German people. Danzig was separated from us, the Corridor was annexed by Poland. As in other German territories of the East, all German minorities living there have been ill-treated in the most distressing manner. More than 1,000,000 people of German blood had in the years 1919-1920 to leave their homeland.

These proposals have been refused. Not only were they answered first with mobilization, but with increased terror and pressure against our German compatriots and with a slow strangling of the Free City of Danzig - economically, politically, and in recent weeks by military and transport means.

…

These proposals for mediation have failed because in the meanwhile there, first of all, came as an answer the sudden Polish general mobilization, followed by more Polish atrocities."

*REFERENCE (nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/imt/nca/ftp.py?imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3469-ps-04):

Concerning this the leading German newspapers, on the basis of directions given out in the so-called "daily parole", brought out the following publicity with great emphasis: (1) Cruelty and terror against Germans and the extermination of Germans in Poland; (2) forced labor of thousands of German men and women in Poland; (3) Poland, land of servitude and disorder; (4) provocation of frontier clashes upon direction of the Polish government

what pointless fucking thread
circle jerking ovet the details won't change anything

An Overlooked Candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize
By Alex S. Perry Jr.
archive.org/stream/AdolfHitler-AnOverlookedCandidateForTheNobelPrize/AdolfHitler-NobelPrize_djvu.txt

William Joyce, nicknamed Lord Haw Haw by British propaganda, became a German citizen and took up the German cause. He described the conditions of the Germans who were living in Poland as:

Quote:
"On the nights of August 25 to August 31 inclusive, there occurred, besides innumerable attacks on civilians of German blood, 44 perfectly authenticated acts of armed violence against German official persons and property."

Reference: Twilight Over England, 125-6.

Hitler declared to British Ambassador Sir Nevile Henderson on August 25, 1939:

Quote:
“Poland’s provocations have become intolerable.”

Hitler placed blame on Polish and Jewish nationalist militias for the terrorism (Poland was 10% Jewish at the time), in addition to a reckless Polish government edged on by British and French unconditional support. Specifically, Polish officials remained unconcerned about rising tensions with Germany by promises of British Ambassador Sir Howard William Kennard and French Ambassador Leon Noel - that Britain and France would come to Poland’s immediate aid should she need it.

One can only imagine how the British Empire would have been subdivided had Germany won WWI: Scotland, Wales, England, Northern Ireland would have been made independent. In Canada, Quebec would have been separated. One wonders how long it would have taken before we would have forced reunification?

Hitler made several official peace offers to Britain, most notably in September 1939, October 1939, July 1940 (after the fall of France), January 1941, etc (The Führer speaks - The Speeches of Adolf Hitler!).

During the Blitzkrieg, it was noted:

Quote:
The Germans contacted the British ambassador in Sweden during the invasion of France - Victor Mallet, through Sweden's Supreme Court judge Ekeberg, who was known to Hitler's legal advisor, Ludwig Weissauer.

"Hitler, according to his emissary [Weissauer], feels himself responsible for the future of the White race. He sincerely wishes friendship with England. He wishes peace to be restored, but the ground must be prepared for it: only after careful preparation may official negotiations begin. Until then the condition must be considered that discussions be unofficial and secret. […]

Hitler's basic ideas [are that] today's economic problems are different from those of the past […] In order to achieve economic progress one must calculate on the basis of big territories and consider them an economic unit. Napoleon tried, but in his days it wasn't possible because France wasn't in the center of Europe and communications were too hard. Now Germany is in the center of Europe and has the necessary means to provide communication and transportation services.

England and America now have the best fleets and will naturally continue to, because they will need the oceans for their supply. Germany has the continent. In what concerns Russia, Weissauer has given the impression that it should be seen as a potential enemy."

According to Mallet, these were Hitler's peace terms:

"1-The British Empire retains all its Colonies and delegations
2- The fundamentals of Germany's continental sphere of interest must be recognized
3- All questions concerning the Mediterranean and its French, Belgian and Dutch colonies are open to discussion
4- Poland. A Polish state must exist
5- The former Czechos(slovakian) state will remain independent but under German protection"

Weissauer didn't go into details, but Ekeberg understood that implied that all European states occupied by Germany would see their sovereignty restored. Germany's occupation was only due to the present military situation.

Reference: The Hitler Hess Deception by Martin Allen, February 17 2003, ISBN 0007141181

German General Blumentritt’s statement (shown above) is not the only notice about Hitler’s hope of peace and friendship with England. The renowned Swedish Explorer Sven Hedin observed Hitler’s confusion about Britain’s refusal to accept his peace offers:

Quote:
Hitler “felt he had repeatedly extended the hand of peace and friendship to the British, and each time they had blacked his eye in reply.” Hitler said, “The survival of the British Empire is in Germany’s interests too because if Britain loses India, we gain nothing thereby.”

Reference: Irving, David, Hitler’s War, paperback edition, Avon History, 236.

For 20 years Hitler had dreamed of an alliance with Britain.

Quote:
As Hitler told Maj. Quisling on August 18, 1940: “After making one proposal after another to the British on the reorganization of Europe, I now find myself forced against my will to fight this war against Britain….”

Reference: Irving, op. cit., 236.

Hitler tried to remain as civil in war as possible towards Britain, that is before the British bombing of civilian targets.

Quote:
"Hitler had given orders that no British towns were to be bombed and, above all, bombing of London was completely forbidden and embargoed."

Reference: Theodore J. O'Keefe. Irving on Churchill. Institute for Historical Review. Date: Spring 1986. Issue:Volume 7 number 4. Location: Page 498 ISSN: 0195-6752 David Irving on Winston Churchill

Hitler stayed the hand of the Luftwaffe and forbade any attack on London under pain of court-martial; the all-out saturation bombing of London, which his strategic advisers Raeder, Jodl, and Jeschonnek all urged upon him, was vetoed. Though his staffs were instructed to examine every peripheral British position—Gibraltar, Egypt, the Suez Canal—for its vulnerability to attack, the heart of the British Empire was allowed to beat on. In these months an adjutant overheard Hitler heatedly shouting into a Chancellery telephone:

Quote:
“We have no business to be destroying Britain. We are quite incapable of taking up her legacy,” meaning the empire; and he spoke of the “devastating consequences of the collapse of that empire."

Reference: Irving, op. cit., 236.

More:

Quote:
Hitler offered total cessation of the war in the West. Germany would evacuate all of France except Alsace and Lorraine, which would remain German. It would evacuate Holland and Belgium, retaining Luxembourg. It would evacuate Norway and Denmark. In short, Hitler offered to withdraw from Western Europe, except for the two French provinces and Luxembourg [Luxembourg was never a French province, but an independent state of ethnically German origin], in return for which Great Britain would agree to assume an attitude of benevolent neutrality towards Germany as it unfolded its plans in Eastern Europe. In addition, the Führer was ready to withdraw from Yugoslavia and Greece. German troops would be evacuated from the Mediterranean generally and Hitler would use his good offices to arrange a settlement of the Mediterranean conflict between Britain and Italy. No belligerent or neutral country would be entitled to demand reparations from any other country, he specified.

The proposal contained many other points, including plans for plebiscites and population exchanges where these might be necessitated by shifts in population that has resulted from the military action in Western Europe and the Balkans. But the versions circulating in authoritative circles all agree on the basic points outlined above.

Reference: Mark Weber. The Inside Story of the Hess Flight. Institute for Historical Review. Issue:Volume 3 number 3. Location: Page 291 The Inside Story of the Hess Flight

Quote:
These were Hess' proposals:

One: Germany and Britain would reach a compromise on world-wide policy based on the status quo. That is, Germany would not attack Russia to secure German Lebensraum ["living space"].

Two: Germany would drop its claims to its former colonies, and would acknowledge British hegemony at sea. In return, Britain would acknowledge continental Europe as a German sphere of interest.

Three: The then-current relationship of military strength between Germany and Britain in the air and on the sea would be maintained. That is, Britain would not receive any reinforcements from the United States. Although there was no mention of land forces, it can be assumed that this balance of forces would be maintained in this regard as well.

Four: Germany would withdraw from "Metropolitan France" [European France] after the total disarmament of the French army and navy. German commissioners would remain in French North Africa, and German troops would remain in Libya for five years after the conclusion of peace.

Five: Within two years after the conclusion of peace, Germany would establish satellite states in Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Serbia. However, Germany would withdraw from Norway, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece (except for Crete, which German parachutists had taken at the of May, 1941). After some rounding-off in the East, North, West and South (Austria and Bohemia-Moravia were apparently to remain within the Reich), Germany would thus concede Britain's position in the eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East.

Six: Germany would recognize Ethiopia and the Red Sea as a British sphere of influence.

Reference: The Life and Death of my Father Rudolf Hess by Wolf Rüdiger Hess. From The Journal of Historical Review, Jan.- Feb. 1993 (Vol. 13, No. 1), pages 24– 39. This is the text of an address presented by videorecording at the Eleventh IHR Conference, October 1992, in Irvine, California.

Quote:
Irving pointed out that Churchill rejected Hitler's peace offers in 1939, 1940, and 1941. Irving pinpointed one critical moment, and supplied the background

Reference: Theodore J. O'Keefe. Irving on Churchill. Institute for Historical Review. Date: Spring 1986. Issue:Volume 7 number 4. Location: Page 498 ISSN: 0195-6752 David Irving on Winston Churchill

Quote:
In January 1941, Hitler was making extraordinary efforts to come to peace terms with England, …. He offered, if Britain would assume an attitude of neutrality, to withdraw from all of France, to leave Holland and Belgium . . . to evacuate Norway and Denmark, and to support British and French industries by buying their products. His proposal had many other favorable points for England and Western Europe.

Reference: McLaughlin,op cit., 10.

When Churchill was leaving London to meet Roosevelt for a conference in Quebec late in the summer of 1943, a reporter asked if they were planning to offer peace terms to Germany. Churchill replied:

Quote:
“Heavens, no. They would accept immediately.”

Reference: Martin, James J., Revisionist Viewpoints, 75.
In a January 1, 1944, letter to Stalin, Churchill said:

Quote:
“We never thought of peace, not even in that year when we were completely isolated and could have made peace without serious detriment to the British Empire, and extensively at your cost. Why should we think of it now, when victory approaches for the three of us?”

Reference: Walendy, Udo, The Methods of Reeducation, 3.

Here are some more interesting points regarding WWII:

Quote:
Was WWII Worth It?
For Stalin, yes
by Patrick J. Buchanan
Was WWII Worth It? - by Pat Buchanan

When one considers the losses suffered by Britain and France – hundreds of thousands dead, destitution, bankruptcy, the end of the empires – was World War II worth it, considering that Poland and all the other nations east of the Elbe were lost anyway?

If the objective of the West was the destruction of Nazi Germany, it was a "smashing" success. But why destroy Hitler? If to liberate Germans, it was not worth it. After all, the Germans voted Hitler in. If it was to keep Hitler out of Western Europe, why declare war on him and draw him into Western Europe? If it was to keep Hitler out of Central and Eastern Europe, then, inevitably, Stalin would inherit Central and Eastern Europe. Was that worth fighting a world war – with 50 million dead? The war Britain and France declared to defend Polish freedom ended up making Poland and all of Eastern and Central Europe safe for Stalinism.

–Patrick J Buchanan

NS Germany was an elected response to communism which existed beside it, which had already been responsible for the murder of millions; to name a few: the Ukranian Holocaust (9 million). German fears of Bolshevism:

Quote:
Stalin's Willing Executioners
Dr Kevin MacDondald, California State University, Occidental Quarterly, 2005
kevinmacdonald.net/SlezkineRev.pdf

A persistent theme among critics of Jews—particularly those on the pre-World War II right—has been that the Bolshevik revolution was a Jewish revolution and that the Soviet Union was dominated by Jews. This theme appears in a wide range of writings, from Henry Ford’s International Jew, to published statements by a long list of British, French, and American political figures in the 1920s (Winston Churchill, Woodrow Wilson, and David Lloyd George), …

We destroyed Germany, only to face a greater enemy which, under Stalin alone, killed 50 million innocent people … which, due to communism's spread, led to the deaths of millions during the Chinese civil war, Korean war, Vietnam war, Cambodian killing fields, etc.

(czech'd)
I'd love to participate, but i'm afraid i don't know much about it, although i am fascinated by the subject. I am amazed that germany was able to come back from the defeat in ww1, the crushing sanctions and reparations and take on the two most dominant industrial countries in the world + Russia. Just fascinating. I already watched TGSNT, what should i watch next?

Anyone here has any relatives who fought in ww2? Axis or Allies.

I have 3 great grandfathers who fought for Finland but two of them passed before I was born and the last one I never got to talk about it with. It would be interesting to hear from someone who lived at the time, especially about the alleged holocaust.

brazilian here

my grandpa was on his way to fight the war when he fell off his horse and broke his leg

spent the year he should have been fighting playing in the army band. later made some money in a band.

his brother went, but i don't think he saw combat

sage for slide thread

...

It's a concept
Welcome to Holla Forums