Why do Liberals get so defensive when you point out their ideology? Many Liberals I have discussed Marxism with have always came out fanatically oppossed to it (What a surprise) and have called me an ideolouge while at the same time ignoring any shift towards Socialism or even Communism.
Many times the more frequent argument I hear is "Well how will people just magically accept Communism?" like it somehow won't be a gradual change in society and another, more disabled one being "Communism is just anarchy and all anarchy is the same".
I have pointed out their ideology but they reject it still and get extremely defensive. I'm losing hope of ever converting some people or even having a reasonable discussion with them.
When liberals don't understand class they think everything you are talking about is somehow conspiracy theory tier, and only information from trusted sources such as the White House, the IMF, WHO, UN, etc can be regarded as FAKTCHUAL (I'm talking about one individual here, a 'true believer' as it were, a truly remarkable specimen)
Seriously, people neck deep in ideology. But to analyze the problem a little more, it seems they have a deep deep need to identify with the current order, depend on the current order to tell them what and how to think, and reduce life and society to numbers, statistics, and academic-sociological categories. This is why I think they need to have their ideology altered from the epistemological/philosophical bedrock (which is really more in need of construction than alteration…), I remind you of when Hegel says [paraphrase] that it might seem unusual to contest whether a category is 'true' or not, but it is of utmost importance! It just blows a liberal's mind when you can argue without moralisms, and have a whole coherent view/ideology with a different set of categories that are directly at odds with the existing order. What I am bad at is arguing with liberals within their excellent. In fact, it seems like the epistemological bedrock of a liberal's excellent is identification with the ruling order. This is precisely the problem and why it's not worth debating with them until they are alienated/fucked over by the ruling order and they aren't too cucked to still cuddle up to it.
Eli Brown
Understand that I am using the word p.roblematic (excellent) as Althusser would
Hudson Turner
Thanks, just what I needed.
This is pretty much how I feel on the most part. People are too wrapped up in their ideology and can't think outside of it at all. The whole facts and numbers thing is all they care about and there is little to no room for theory. I mean, considering the fact that are facts and figures out there that are supportive of Socialism and even Communism, it's there, but they're either too far up their own arse or not open to any external suggestions or opinions.
Elijah Nelson
Can someone explain to me what a liberal is?
Wyatt Smith
A modern way of calling someone a faggot.
Xavier Rivera
Yea At this point I'd like to know what the fuck a liberal defined exactly and without joking is nowadays.
Levi Johnson
In murica calling someone a libuhruhl is a common epithet for anyone that disagrees with you on anything, politically or not.
Now it's become a common political epithet for le brainwashed sheeple. It's popular with tankies but mostly used by normie conservatives.
Hunter Perry
Basically just capitalist apologists who realize they and everyone they know and care about are being fucked by the system, but don't recognize it as systemic and instead just blame others for their problems. To liberals, history is over. The way first world countries are run right now are the epitome of how society can be, and only care about meme issues like abortion and lgbt rights. After all, shit still sucks, they just don't really know why.
Asher Green
"Liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others; but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty."
"Neoliberalism is a policy model of social studies and economics that transfers control of economic factors to the private sector from the public sector. It takes from the basic principles of neoclassical economics, suggesting that governments must limit subsidies, make reforms to tax law in order to expand the tax base, reduce deficit spending, limit protectionism, and open markets up to trade. It also seeks to abolish fixed exchange rates, back deregulation, permit private property, and privatize businesses run by the state."
Bentley Martinez
Liberals are fickle. One second, they see you as their ally, the next they're stabbing you in the back because "socialism is unrealistic and should only be done with capitalism hurrr bernie sanders".
so mediocre and generally well-intentioned people who have a superficial way of thinking but want the good of society at large.
It's also pretty much an american specific term from what I can tell.
Austin Sanchez
You've essentially just described most political ideologies there.
Jordan Flores
Holy fuck, people don't reject it because it's unattractive, if it was unattractive people (including like 90% of all intellectuals) wouldn't have converted to it a couple decades ago. It obviously is attractive, especially to anyone with a brain.
The singular reason why they don't accept is because history has shown it ends in failure, and nobody fucking cares to hear your "but this was because of Y, let's just try again!!".
You will never get rid of the looming shadow of the historical failure of communism. Ever. Because that's the first thing they learn about it.
Unless you fucking get up and build your own communist society and SHOW it to work, instead of sperging over "but m-muh muh paris commune!"
But it's much easier to believe everyone is a spooked sheep who is too scared to tap out of their safety zone belief system, of course.
Everyone knows capitalism is pure shit but unless you can be sure your system actually works, nobody is going to go along with the "tear it all down" meme.
Jackson Morales
this
Christian Ross
Read a book on communication, something like "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. That book is a must read for anyone wishing to spread his ideas beyond an echo chamber.
First agree with them that the personal freedoms are truly great and noble.
Then get the liberals to agree that the ideas like freedom that they believe in don't just magically appear from the sky, they are a product of circumstances.
Once they get on to dialectic, materialism, progress and all that jazz, ask them whether the current condition enable everyone to be free, whether everyone enjoys that undeniable freedom that is given to him at birth or whether any freedom is not merely a result of circumstances.
Arguing is pointless, you'll make them more firm in their beliefs and their worldview. No fucking wonder they get defensive. You tell them they are wrong.
Matthew Gutierrez
Then tell them to watch a shit-ton of Zizek videos.
Joseph Campbell
FUCKING BURGERS STOP FUCKING UP POLITICAL TERMINOLOGY REEEEEE CLASSICAL LIBERALS = LIBERTARIANS WHAT YOU CALL LIBERALS ARE PROGRESSIVES AND SOCIALISTS
Cooper Rodriguez
Burgers cannot say the workd Socialism. They are alergic.
but what people subtly imply when they bring up the failures of communism is that capitalist works the thing is that capitalism only works by capitalism's standards from a completely neutral standpoint, mass inequality, exploitation, global poverty, racial and gender discrimination (don't scream idpol! yet) would surely be considered negative for a society but capitalism has swept all these problems under the rug by saying they're natural. The success of capitalism can only be attributed to inherently capitalist principles. People say that capitalism works because of economic freedom, the diversity of the market, the opportunities and so on. Basically, they're saying capitalism works because capitalism. It's really a circular argument if you think about it.
Nathaniel Carter
capitalism* whew
Charles Reyes
Actually, classical liberals = liberals. Libertarians are just autists
Nicholas Hernandez
I love this man
David Hall
They'll say it but mean something different. Happy capitalism with government regulations, perhaps ubi, and everyone suckles the genitals of the nearest sexual-word salad.
Levi Thompson
The majority of the people have an IQ under 110, that is, under the average IQ of an art student.
Christian Long
wow, thanks for clearing that up
Charles Ramirez
kys fam
Chase James
The point is, most people are really, really dumb. The average IQ, 100, is low.
Dominic Carter
100 is average. The IQ tests are altered every few years and the average score is set to 100. When people perform older tests, they tend to score higher. If all of a sudden, everybody started scoring 95 on average, the base IQ of 100 would be set to that standard. So >the average IQ, 100 is nothing more than the current average, and that's all it will ever be.
Jordan Murphy
I never implied otherwise, you wise guy.
Noah Cooper
Don't talk about subjects in which you are ignorant. In any IQ test, the average of all participants is set to equal 100. The purpose of IQ tests is to measure deviation from the norm. 100 literally cannot be "low" because it is always, by definition, the average. Yes, I'm mad. Poseur fucks like you who pretend they know anything about statistics or psychology are directly responsible for the canards and misconceptions that plague the public. Jump off a bridge.
