How do we make internet free without ISP? I know it has to be a mesh networking system in order for it to work

It's been done, multiple times. Be your own ISP. We started in 2004 with few pringles (actually, canned peach) cans. In 2017 we have our own AS, 80Gbps on the border and 40k members.

Note that this is "free" as in freedom - we retain full freedom of our network. There will be always costs associated - rent for fiber and installation, electricity and equipment all needs to be paid for somehow.

Obviously a non-profit cooperative. I'm not sure such radical communist ideas would fly in the US, though.

JT65 is the current in-thing for global HF datacomms.

When running flat-out, it sends a ~40 byte packet every two minutes at best.

Homework question: scale that up to millions of users across just 20 frequencies, where a 1% of users are shitheads and trolls who're in it to fuck up the entire planet's transmissions for teh luls, and 95% are mouthbreathing normies who're challenged by the HI-TECH iPhone.

APANA in Australia started doing that in 1989..

No one would be using HF for that. They'd be using the higher frequency bands and using something like high speed multimedia raido where they can use common off the shelf hardware:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_multimedia_radio
Bandwidth would still be extremely limited though. Even if they saturated all of the channels that 802.11ac can handle (the 2.4 GHz and the 5 GHz channels) they would still only have 3.2 Gb/s links for the backbone. which ends up being closer to 1.6 Gb/s when you consider the links would be half duplex. With a only 2000 people on line at a time you'd already be down to ~800 Kb/s per person.

On this planet frequencies over 25-30 MHz go straight out the ionosphere never to return.

Literally the opposite is true.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s

Enjoy your 1000 ms ping times

Idea: We make a completely open ISP that anyone can add onto and has no Logs

Why not just encryption? It's impossible to just build a wireless system without the FCC in the US.

Come back when you got all the cables laid out on the territory, then we can talk about it

Here's some resources
diyisp.org/dokuwiki/doku.php
lists.ffdn.org/wws/info/diy-isp
ffdn.org/en/projects

What about Opera? It comes with a built in VPN.

Lol

local smaller isps is the only way

tbh, local networks > world wide web

why are you assuming it should be done through radio?

visible light spectrum -430,000-750,000 GHz
Radio - 15 MHz - 1.5 GHz
FM - 85-120 MHz
ShortWave - 120 MHz - 1.5 GHz

Do you believe that we can do network communications in the open air with visible light technology?

yes.

its called a laser.

It's been around for a while:
ronja.twibright.com/

Thanks for ruining my day. It's only 11:45.

WTF? I honestly don't understand how you guys can live in the US without killing yourselves.

It's fairly reasonable, in a way.
It's illegal to use the amateur frequencies for commercial purposes and there's no way to prove it if it's encrypted.

All of amateur radio will have a bad time if the airwaves are saturated with encrypted communications that is as meaningful as radio static. If want you encrypted communications, move it to a high frequency where distances are small and your communications don't affect the wider community, only the area that's within your immediate vicinity.

You're right, I was thinking about infrared and omnidirectional light transmission. Most IR based systems don't work well in the sun.

That's a neato way to do point to point links. I'm not sure how well you could do a mesh network in this manner.

infrared isn't as powerful as visible light.

Radio ----------------------- 15 MHz - 1.5 GHz
FM --------------------------- 85-120 MHz
ShortWave --------------- 120 MHz - 1.5 GHz
Microwave ---------------- 30-300 GHz
Far Infrared --------------- 3000-15000 GHz
Near Infrared ------------- 15000-430,000 GHz
visible light spectrum -- 430,000-750,000 GHz
Ultraviolet -------------------1-100 PHz

Mesh network. Who's gonna be our Idea Guy who creates the logo and name? This is as far as Holla Forums will get.

I'll make the wiki!
with Holla Forums satellites!

Ew

I've been on this idea for a while. I won't bore you with a wall of text about it just the tl;dr version:

You're all thinking exclusively in terms of the technology. That's only one piece of the puzzle.

It needs to be approached in such a way that it's profitable and socially interesting. That's what powers the Internet, not just techno-geeks building stuff.

On top of that it needs to start on the Internet, migrate to the darknet, THEN to an alternative Internet (mesh networks and all that). These steps would all overlap but you HAVE to start where most people actually are or else your little Alt. Internet is doomed to obscurity.

Want details? Ask. Or don't. Fuck you.

Google streetnet in cuba. We should build a similar one in Europe or the US.

What is this bullshit?
(shitposting @160m* in CW)
*160 meters refers to the band of radio frequencies between 1800 and 2000 kHz,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave_bands

The usable frequencies are actually quite limited and are shared globally (though the available frequencies can vary slightly per region), not just in the US. Allowing encryption on amateur radio frequencies would pretty much kill off the HF bands. The 40 meter band for example can only support at max 125 perfectly spaced SSB voice channels, and those have to be shared with everyone in the world since radio waves at those frequencies will bounce off the ionosphere.

BTS + wimax router or phone(very few).
idk how to provide WAN tho (WAN = the current internet).
the problem is that wimax is proprietary (like other basebands like LTE).
maybe if someone reverse engineers wimax chip and gets hands-on with BTS device and steal ISP wimax tech

...

God I know this is the tech board but you people are too autistically obsessed with tech as the solution. It isn't. Not even for creating our own Internet. The Internet is just as much of a social and business phenomenon as a technological one.

1. Form your own decentralized HUMAN networks. Leverage platforms that already exist like proboards, wrongthink, ricochet. You don't need to build a colossus like another Facebook for non-normies. That's thinking in terms of monolithic centralized platforms.

2. Set up your own virtual currency. time-bank.info/ or drupal.org/project/mutual_credit. I've already done that part, but I'm making the site NOT look like shit before I post a link to it. And yes, it CAN work. I've already talked about it here: pastebin.com/t7xdEuBd

3. Build our own private virtual economy to the point where our currency takes on real value all just by doing things we already do anyway (again, see the pastebin). Use the money to finance our own virtual and physical infrastructure. In this way we migrate from Internet to Darknet to Alternative Internet.

No! It's also about profit motive and leveraging online social activity aka the HUMAN factor

The kikes have a stranglehold on the series of tubes that make up the internet and are not giving it up. What we need to do is find an alternative to cable and phone infrastructure that can be used to send data, lots of it, efficiently. Something so revolutionary and cheap that the feds wouldn't be able to shut it down. Radio seems to come up a lot, but trust me, there is no better way to get the man in the van in front of your house than sending out lots of EM. And we have to get away from the ISP model way of thinking, too; the very idea of a 'provider' means 'they' can control it. EVERYONE should be an ISP, that way no single ISP exists.
Just some random thoughts, I need more coffee.

So how exactly do you suggest raising the money to run all the cable necessary for something like that? Radio is the only financially feasible way of accomplishing such a project.

I just told y'all:

If that sounds too crazy then run a lemonade stand & raise the money that way.

You're going to need a lot more money than whatever "money" you'd get from swapping scrip with your friends. Building wired infrastructure that would cover a large area would be incredibly expensive, not to mention the legal issues with laying the necessary cable.

Wire isn't the answer. Or more accurately, laying MORE wire isn't the answer. Taking the wire away from the entertainment kikes would be a start, maybe. But we'd still have the problem of centralized control. What I'm suggesting is a different medium entirely, I just don't know what that medium would be. Somebody in a lower percentile than I needs to come up with that answer.
More communism has never been the answer to anything, ever.

If that's seriously your answer, then enjoy your 800 baud rates.

That would imply they could in fact run any cable in any populated area.

It's going to be wireless. We should just take that as a given no matter what.

Could just take a different spin on wireless. Instead of broadcasting you could use point-to-point laser signals couldn't you? I'm sure I'm not the first to think of that idea.

Could you camouflage a signal into the EM background that could only be found if you knew what you were looking for? I kind of stenography?

The only other medium worth pursuing is one that breaks the light barrier.

no you idiot, that won't solve anything if you use your memesh networking to connect to facebook or youtube.
you need a completely new network that can connect only to servers within that network. in practice this means local nearby servers only. that way you won't have corporations fucking your shit up.

That's not going to happen if your goal is to connect to the Internet. Making local internets is an ancient idea that's older than the Internet. If you want to connect to the Internet, somewhere along the line, that connection as to go through the big corporate-owned network links.

Of course, but why do you absolutely must connect to the Internet with capital I in the first place? It's like you need to be fucked in the ass at any cost. Isn't the point of building your own network to avoid all that? Just removing ISPs from the equation achieves almost nothing.

802.11s does nothing to address the inherent scaling problems in an unmanaged, any-to-any network. This is especially true when using a shared, bandwidth-limited medium like radio.

This is already done with wireless - look up "Microwave backhaul". Lasers are less reliable and more expensive than RF in this application. It also doesn't solve the problem of needing centralized control of the infrastructure: somebody has to coordinate the point-to-point links to ensure that the network as a whole functions reliably and to prevent link interference/overlapping.

Yes, but you'll have to accept incredibly low bitrates for the occupied bandwidth.

I understand fully well that my traffic can be monitored at every step of the way. If I wanted privacy on the Internet, I would be using tools to promote privacy such as GPG, Tor and Freenet.

Could be used for specific things though, like a secure channel for passing around keys to facilitate encrypted connections over conventional channels. We don't need to invent a whole new Internet all at once. It can be built from incremental steps like this.

Ye of little faith. I'm talking about starting on the regular Internet first. With a shared currency issued in the right way we have an economic model that can incentivize people to build their own communities from a primordial soup of imageboards, discussion forums, chat services, etc. We can bypass the cultural gatekeepers of the Internet, which is a great deal of our problem. You're thinking all-or-nothing. I'm thinking in terms of an evolution.

Sure Facebook is thinking about starting it's own currency too, specifically for games. But you have to buy the currency with your own money and you can be goddamned sure they'll heavily control & monitor the way you use it.

Remember, you're here forever!

What? The ITU regulates radio spectrum across most of the planet, and not allowing encryption on amateur bands was their call. It actually has nothing to do with the US corporatist police state (as surprising as that is).

No one is going to seriously lay cable again. The cost is prohibitive, and that's not even considering maintenance.

Service providers are laying cable all the time. You get multiple orders of magnitude more bandwidth over a fiber link than even the best microwave systems, and you pull hundreds of fiber channels at a time between points, instead of just a single microwave channel.

Just use the Internet if you want to play the video games or whatever. Before all this lame commercial crap and subversion there were BBS networks that propagated messages and files like Usenet but over slow modems and in daily batch jobs. This had huge ping time but was good enough for its purposes.

You mentioned the only method. Meshnet.

Start producing easy to use server devices that use some protocol to create a meshnet. Make sure the feature to connect to regular internet is there. The idea here is to have something like piratebox with a larger range, that lets people connect to internet if the server admin has it routed through their internet or unlimited data or whatever. Obviously through VPN so nobody even thinks about legal consequence. This will appeal to normalfags as free wifi, plus some might see some shit like free books on the "log in portal" aka the meshnet. Eventually, start a movement in a meme city like somewhere in California where you do this in mass. Free wifi everywhere in some big cities, but the real point is the meshnet lying under it. Eventually, with enough people using this free wifi, start emphasizing less on internet connectivity and more on the meshnet software. Eventually, people will start talking about the RegularNounThatsMissingTheLastVowel-net over the internet. Boom. Internet replaced.

Now can we start this project? I'll make the logo :-)

who is "we"?

That's just silly enough to work. I wish I knew enough to set something like this up. I don't get how you would route the captive portal through the meshnet, but let them connect to regular internet, too. Then again, I can't be too smart if I'm posting on Holla Forums.

I think it can be done. I'll experiment on my piratebox. Basically a rebranding of the piratebox without the negative name with regular internet connection. Piratebox has Raspberry Pi Zero support, but no mesh support for it because something to do with multiple wifi cards. Will make some site for it if it works.

I just hate working with the piratebox because my neighbors might see it and connect while I'm still testing shit. Plus phones will see an open wifi hotspot, then people will think "oh sweet free wifi" and then see some red page that says PIRATEBOX. Scary as fuck. Which is why the log in portal has got to take priority. Wish I could faraday cage it while testing.

Hidden network and/or MAC filtering should be more then enough to keep the normies out.

Plenty of meshnets out there already
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wireless_community_networks_by_region
Catalonia has a yuge one
guifi.net/en

I've been getting the site more-or-less functioning. I've installed the Buddypress Timebank plugin and a discussion forum. You start off with a zero balance and a default limit between -100 and 100 so it's a mutual credit system with a net balance of zero. Been sending money back and forth between dummy accounts without any problems.

It's pretty minimalistic but I think that's best TBH. We don't need to develop some kind of high-end solution like ebay. You just make a forum post and allow people to form their own standards.

I'm securing the site as best I can before I post the URL.

hey you people talking about using radio and shit. why not just use a huge bunch of open (unencrypted) wifi hotspots with some servers and shit running on it?

perhaps i am too dumb to realize the flaw in this design or what

oh nevermind i am a retard who didn't read the previous posts properly. disregard me.

Has anything original and useful ever come out of GNU?

[UPDATE]

What's up anons? I'm this guy here:

The site is ready for testing: smarmyarmy.com/

This is how we could build our own separate economy and use it to fund our own separate Internet. I don't care about getting over-shadowed by a more tech-savvy & well-funded group that copies the idea. I just want to showcase the basic concept.

READ the intro page before registering.