Germans "Lose Faith In Banks", Rush To Buy Safes

It is no secret that one of the most admirable qualities of the German public - in addition to its striking propensity for thrift in the aftermath of Weimar - is its stoic patience and pragmatism when dealing with adversity. However, over the past month, we grew increasingly confident that said patience would be tested, if only when it comes to matters of monetary trust vis-a-vis the local, neighborhood bank. First it was the news that Raiffeisen Gmund am Tegernsee, a German cooperative savings bank in the Bavarian village of Gmund am Tegernsee, with a population 5,767, finally gave in to the ECB's monetary repression, and announced it’ll start charging retail customers to hold their cash. Then, just last week, Deutsche Bank's CEO came about as close to shouting fire in a crowded negative rate theater, when, in a Handelsblatt Op-Ed, he warned of "fatal consequences" for savers in Germany and Europe - to be sure, being the CEO of the world's most systemically risky bank did not help his cause.

That was the last straw, and having been patient long enough, the German public has started to move. According to the WSJ, German savers are leaving the "security of savings banks" for what many now consider an even safer place to park their cash: home safes.

Indeed, as even the WSJ now admits, for years, "Germans kept socking money away in savings accounts despite plunging interest rates. Savers deemed the accounts secure, and they still offered easy cash access. But recently, many have lost faith." We wondered how many "fatal" warnings from the CEO of DB it would take, before this shift would finally take place. As it turns out, one was enough.

To be sure, the Germans are merely catching up to where the Japanese were over half a year ago. As we wrote in February, "look no further than Japan’s hardware stores for a worrying new sign that consumers are hoarding cash–the opposite of what the Bank of Japan had hoped when it recently introduced negative interest rates. Signs are emerging of higher demand for safes—a place where the interest rate on cash is always zero, no matter what the central bank does.

Other urls found in this thread:

zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-29/safes-sell-out-germany-savers-lose-faith-banks
nashvillesafehouse.com/faq/top-10-things-to-know-before-buying-a-safe/
archive.is/EMGGX
economicsdiscussion.net/money/top-8-qualities-of-an-ideal-money-material/609
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Now it's Germany's turn.

“It doesn’t pay to keep money in the bank, and on top of that you’re being taxed on it,” said Uwe Wiese, an 82-year-old pensioner who recently bought a home safe to stash roughly €53,000 ($59,344), including part of his company pension that he took as a payout.

Interest rates’ plunge into negative territory is now accelerating demand for impregnable metal boxes.

Burg-Waechter KG, Germany’s biggest safe manufacturer, posted a 25% jump in sales of home safes in the first half of this year compared with the year earlier, said sales chief Dietmar Schake, citing “significantly higher demand for safes by private individuals, mainly in Germany.”

Burg-Waechter KG, Germany’s biggest safe manufacturer, posted a 25% jump
in sales of home safes in the first half of this year compared with the
year earlier, said sales chief Dietmar Schake, citing “significantly higher demand for safes by private individuals, mainly in Germany.”

Rivals Format Tresorbau GmbH and Hartmann Tresore AG also report double-digit-percentage German sales increases. “Safe manufacturers are operating near their limits,” said Thies Hartmann, managing director of Hamburger Stahltresor GmbH, a family-owned safe retailer in Hamburg, which he says has grown 25% since 2014. He said deliveries take longer from safe makers, some of which are running three production shifts.

The biggest irony in all of this, as we first pointed out last October, is the epic mistake that central bankers did by unleashing negative rates: instead of forcing savers to spend, it has - at least in the case of Japan and Germany - forced them to not only pull their cash out of the bank, thereby further slowing the velocity of money, but to save even more, forcing central bankers to come up with even more unprecedented "solutions" to a problem of their own creation.

As the WSJ adds, in a country where few people buy stocks, the possibility of having to pay fees on deposits has turned savers’ world—and their piggy banks—upside down.

“The moment the bank tells me I have to pay interest on my deposit I’ll take my €50,000 or whatever it is and put it under my pillow, or buy a safe and stick the money inside,” said Dagmar Metzger, a 53-year-old entrepreneur in Munich.

Alas, with every passing day, that moment gets ever closer.

Meanwhile, for those who can't find or afford a safe, there are other options. Ms. Metzger, a game hunter, said she would also consider squirreling cash away in her gun cabinet, which has solid locks. Paying to save is “preposterous,” said Marlene Marek, 58, owner of a Frankfurt bistro. “I would rather withdraw my money and stash it at home, or keep it in a safe-deposit box at a bank.”

She is not the only one - many Germans have a similar idea, which has led to safes selling out, and creating waiting lists for safe-deposit boxes in some big cities as a growing number of Germans prefer self-sufficiency. “When you put money in a safe-deposit box, everyone notices, and you’re paying fees,” said Mr. Wiese, the Hamburg retiree, who said his new safe is roughly twice the size of a hotel safe.

And while one could blame retail savers for being conspiracy theorist nuts, in Germany it is the very biggest corporations who have been, throughout 2016, rebelling against the ECB's idiotic policies. Indeed, banks and other financial institutions themselves are also keeping more cash. As we reported earlier in the year, reinsurance giant Munich Re AG said earlier this year it would cache over €20 million in cash in a safe, alongside gold bars the company stockpiled two years ago.

“We are testing that and are happy that this works without any glitches and at reasonable costs,” said Chief Financial Officer Jörg Schneider. The reinsurer said it would consider augmenting its cash stash.

Finally, in what may be the pinnacle fo practicality over stupidity, Germans are particularly focused on safes because they prefer cash to plastic. “Only cash is real,” goes an old saying.

Well, yes, until it is confiscated as sad Harvard economists have been urging in recent months.

Unlike their more "hip" Scandinavian peers, roughly 80% of German retail transactions are in cash, almost double the 46% rate of cash use in the U.S., according to a 2014 Bundesbank survey. Germans also keep more cash in their wallets and visit ATMs more often, withdrawing on average $256 at a time, the study found. Americans withdraw $103 on average.

And they are absolutely right; we can only wish more Americans showed the same foresight as the ordinary German.

Meanwhile, the WSJ concludes, Ms. Metzger is a member of an activist group demanding the existence of cash be guaranteed in Germany’s constitution. "I don’t want to become completely transparent,” she says.”I don’t want everyone to know whether I buy chocolate, strawberries or mangoes at the store.”

Alas, if "erudite" Harvard economists like Larry Summers and, now, David Rogoff get their way, Ms. Metzger's, and everyone else's, worst nightmare will soon come true.

Until that moment, however, as a final reminder, in a fractional reserve banking system, only the first ten or so percent of those who "run" to the bank to obtain possession of their physical cash and park it in the safe will succeed. Everyone else, our condolences.

zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-29/safes-sell-out-germany-savers-lose-faith-banks

Finally, in what may be the pinnacle fo practicality over stupidity, Germans are particularly focused on safes because they prefer cash to plastic. “Only cash is real,” goes an old saying.

this is what I wanted to talk about. You think cash will soon be eliminated and only credit cards allowed? If so, you think eventually people will just reject the monetary system and find new transaction methods?

Reminder that this also happened in Japan earlier this year

Coming soon to a burgerland near you

it's stated in the article

what you think about this?

Not even German but thought of buying a safe for a while now.

Anyone have a buyer's guide for safes? Like, which brands to avoid, how to conceal it and all that stuff?

No, that'd probably rock the boat too much
I wouldn't be surprised if we had quiet bailouts of some of the bigger banks though

You mean like using cyptocurrency?

The solutions to all this problems is getting a microchip implant.

No. I mean like how it happened in Serbia during the war (there was a image with the story). Alcohol became the coin.

Think of it like in Fallout how they use CAPS, people would just lose faith in the banks and use their own thing.

Wouldn't be better to bury the money? If I would be a turkroach in germany now, I would target homes and search for the safe to steal the money.

sure, if there was major civil unrest you could see a return to a more barter like system
But the Yugoslav wars were a far different situation than Germany is in today of course, we all know Euro Civil Wars are in the near future

I`m sure that the`ll start doing that.
We`ll move to a society where having a financial reserve will cost you. You cannot keep the money out of the bank, for money will only exist withing the digital banking system.
And keeping money in the bank will be very expensive for every Dollar/Euro above a certain amount will be taxed to hell from either government or thought pricing schemes within banks(or both).
What we`ll end up with is a society whereby cash that is made will be moved, once your salary is in you spend it. Renting will be the norm, rent a car because you`ll never be able to save up the money to by one. We`ll be even more into loans and debt and we`ll mistake money for wealth even more.

Unless we have RaHoWa,
0.159090
Hail Victory.
KKK
KEK
KKK

They are trying to move to all electronic finances in order to track and control their underclass better. I don't know if they will be able to eliminate it in the near future, but they are certainly trying to make it less appealing with chips in cards and paying with your phone being more "convenient". Soon they will try to make it a straight up hassle to use.

Bartering is becoming more popular among myself and my friends. We all are at various stages of homesteading/traditional living and have something the other doesn't. Be it fruit/veggies, meat or some type of craft. Some small time farmers in our area will do it as well if they get to know you and you can make them something they want. For instance my friend makes high quality pack baskets and got some very nice piglets for a couple this year.

That would be another option but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with it tbh (what if I can't remember the exact location? what if I want to add money?)

Also, I don't even have a garden (let alone a big one with plenty of potential burying space).

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Yeah. That's how I think they see it. Remove property, no ownership, no homes, just cities with small boxes to live in. Big corporations will also take control of all the growing fields, food will just be the same for all, a daily meal put on your card while the guys in control will have big feasts each day. It will be like a big open prison.

Nice trips.

Bump for interest.

I was thinking of getting a gun safe at the same time, and storing my precious metals along with cash.

In the meantime, hiding cash in hollow books or vidya game boxes works too. You can also hide some under newspaper in the vegetable drawer of your fridge (a trick my parents used, we suffered two break-ins in 25 years, they never found it).

Sweden's heading towards cashless. I'm a foreigner here, and the bank interrogates you whenever you want to do something as simple as deposit money.
Back home, you can deposit it straight into an ATM.

In other news, safe cracking set to be new most profitable profession

can't they be open just with a blow torch?

I thought I remembered reading about a country that was proudly touting going cashless. No surprise that it's Sweden. It's so progressive.

so if money would become all digital, anyone working for the government could just add one more number to his account..

Maybe they'll go further than that.

unlimited funding for the party in power. delete the accounts of the opposition, leave them without money, say it was hacked or that the money were never there and put in prison the leaders that threat your position of power..

Interesting ideas.

Anyway, in the meantime I found this guide which looks pretty informative (detailing security ratings and sheeit).

nashvillesafehouse.com/faq/top-10-things-to-know-before-buying-a-safe/
archive.is/EMGGX

Yeah, it's fucking retarded. The incredibly high taxes here go to waste - the streets are shit, healthcare is shit and doctors are mostly foreign, and native swedes aren't even having enough babies so the somewhat free education goes to the nu-swedes.


I don't see why not, and say if someone (or some group) were not in the government's favour, then they could easily have their card spending amount limited or cut off. All purchases would also be on record for the government too.

Depends on what you buy. Cheap, common house safes can be cracked quickly with a crowbar by someone who knows what they are doing. Same with gunsafes/cabinets. A criminal would can just steal safe and open at their convenience if it's small, light enough, and not securely bolted down as well.

So declining faith in banks is good for bringing about economic collapse right?

Is there any economic reason for negative interest rates or is it purely about gov control?

According to 1929, yes.

Next step is to print off money, right?

Since they can't possibly keep track of taxation now, they have to pay off (((debts))) somehow, and the Eurozone will soon know what hell smells like.

Don't just keep cash on hand or (((they))) will render it worthless through inflation. Use your money to buy tangibles like food and ammo and valuables that keep their worth

I've read multiple times that bottles of alcohol are extremely desirable in a shtf scenario. Toilet paper also has a high worth.

related

just tried to post and your post hadn't show up yet.

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I can think of a solution

Usury.

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A safe is a waste of time unless it's too big or heavy to just steal the whole thing. A burglar isn't gonna bother cracking your safe if he can just take it and run.

damn….that was a nice read
but….where can I get illegal arms in shitty country where even licensed guns are fucking controlled like hell?

Fair points, what would you recommend then? Keep in mind that I live in an apartment so burying isn't a realistic option for me.

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Why not just use the biometric code from an eye scan?

What are interest rates like in the US? We've been having negative interest rates for quite some time now here.

Get friendly with drug users low or level drug dealers. They will have a line on guns. Dunno if lmao weed will have the connects, but ones selling harder drugs should. I've heard even crappy illegal pistol can be quite expensive depending on where you are in Europe.


It's harder in an apartment. I have a gunsafe in my basement that bolted to the floor. My advice would be the highest quality safe you can afford. Make sure there aren't youtube videos on someone crowbarring the brand/model open in a minute or two. Bolt it securely to the floor. It makes it harder to open and they can't steal it. Should be enough to foil amateurs and the unprepared.

.5% is the current federal fund rate

Overall it's pretty low, The only people who even have savings accounts anymore are older folks

thanks for advice, will search for it

I have a savings account to keep my emergency fund in so it at least earns a little interest. If you have debt, pay that off first. The interest rates on debt means you could actually losing money if you chose to invest instead if the interest rate on your investment in lower than the interest rate on your debt. The only caveat would be if it's a retirement fund where your employer is matching your investment.
I'm by no means a shekel counter, but my was and some of the stuff he taught me stuck


nice double dubs
Also, bolt it down in a place that a pain to get to. If it's annoying for you to have to open it, it will probably be a straight up pain in the dick for someone trying to break into/remove it.

Why have the safe the basement, why not in the master bedroom?

It's where my my workshop/reloading bench are. My carry pistol and home defense/truck gun don't go in the safe unless I cannot take them where I am going. If you have a gun for protection that you can't get to when you need it, what's the point of having it?
Note, my gunsafe is like the first pic, not the second. If you have kids, I understand why you would need to keep all your funz locked up unless they are in your hand. I hope your safe has a fast and reliable way to get it open when you wake up in the middle of the night, disoriented as fuck to a window getting smashed.

It'd be easier to keep the gun out of reach of the kid until they're old enough to be taught firearm responsibility. Fuck trying to put in the combination on your safe after you just heard your door get kicked down and adrenaline is coursing through your body, sending your fine motor skills to shit when you've got seconds to grab your gun.

Cheers for all the advice mate.

That's my opinion as well, but I understand the line of reasoning with a kid. Doesn't mean I agree with it.

I think this is what you meant

guys…

that's what I said

Please, it isn't like civilized poc of colour would ever resort to something like embed related.

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PEPE

forgive me KEK

jews or moslems, different side of same semitic coin

Many anons here have the right idea about safes not being safe enough, but no one seems to mention that the money itself isn't safe, either.

It's volatile and prone to becoming worthless, so it's smart to turn it into something more stable before storing it by burying it or whatever.

Gold bars might be the first thing that comes to mind, but they take too much space and are a bitch to transport, so if I was rich, I'd go with diamonds, instead.

how about buying the house you live in?

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Diamonds are worthless you retard unless people want to buy them. You're foolish if you think precious metals and gems will be worth something when Western currencies tank. You need to be investing in materials and skills that can be used to keep you, your family, and your friends alive. What the fuck use are diamonds when people are scrambling for something to eat? I'd rather have means of keeping warm, medicine, and ammunition along with the ability to produce said items than silver, gold, or precious gems.
I live in a cold climate
Your obsession with traditional material wealth, even as the Western world collapses, is interesting. Does your last name reflect you lust by any chance? Something along the lines of Goldberg by any chance?

The Bosnia SHTF primer that has been posted in this thread TWICE is a great start. Stop pretending like you are le enlightened gentleman who is smarter than everyone else faggot.

The bar in that guys's hand is currently worth $42545.08.

Also most of a diamond's value comes from them being controlled by a cartel. You can't resell diamonds for nearly the price that the cartel sells diamonds to consumers for.

Not sure if retarded, if trolling 7/10

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Also, you're a fucking lolberg aren't you? Go sell your guns to gary johnson you worthless fuck.

I want to learn some useful skills like: mending clothes, fixing shoes, making kerosene or lamp oil etc. In the event of a collapse these skills can keep you fed.

Anyone have some guides on easy fix-it things?

I use a credit union but most of my funds are in bitcoin and etherium and cash and silver

A floorsafe in the basement with a basic security system is about as safe as it gets. It takes hours, if not days to get to your valuables, but it takes only a few seconds for the instant message from your security system to arrive. Cheap, Save & Secure and you can store gold bars and diamonds in there as well.

can still turn them into fertilizer if you own a farm.

Your statement would be true if the entire world's economy collapses, but with local collapse your gold is bound to retain most of it's value, since it can be sold overseas.

Sorry, I just don't relate to the delusion that any imminent currency crash will be widespread enough to rid diamonds and gold of their value and leave me homeless.

If kebabs break in they can still force you to open your safe.

Although I suppose it's not all that difficult to get a license for s suppressor in Germany. Could build a mousefart quiet boltgun and if Muslims break in you just kill them quietly and dispose of the bodies.

You still have to survive the collapse in order to use whatever traditional currency your hoarding. Materials that will keep you alive both


That's fine. There are numerous sources, such as the Bosnian account, that prove traditional wealth is useless when things go south. Die for all I care.

It's funny that you should mention the kosovo conflict, since there were so many vultures from russia and other surrounding states pouring into the country to buy up whatever valuables the people had.
Gold is so valuable that there are always buyers and history is full of examples and ar in bosnia/kosovo in the 90s was a classic example.

Countless opportunists poured into the country to buy up silverware and jewelry in exchange for basic items. Gold retains most its value even under the most dire circumstances. This is why pilots and secret agents were issued gold coins. It has a tenthousand year history and for most of it it was very, very valuable.

this is a joke, right?

It's also worth mentioning that storing money in Gold and the like protects it from extreme bank jewery, such as the 2012 Cyprus capital levy.

You're right for isolated/short term incidents. I'm a burger and think in terms of my country's collapse. Initially, criminal elements will come in a trade basic needs whatever valuables them can get. But, it's like selling stolen goods to a fence, or a stolen car to a chop shop. You get far less than your valuables are "worth".
And once the collapse expands beyond your state, or country for Europeans, traditional wealth retains even less value. Trading in and of itself means exposing your wealth to others who only care about what they can get from you. Keeping a low profile is a good idea whether you're walking through a nigger neighborhood tonight or your country is in the grip of civil war. Trading gold for food makes you a target. Begrudging parting with some batteries and your "last" flashlight doesn't raise your profile nearly as much.

I basically agree, but most things lose value when society breaks down, gold is not special in that regard. Sure batteries and storable food are great, but nobody's smuggle you or children out of the country or sell you a ticket for an ocean liner or w/e for a pack of dried beans & peaches. Everyday items are great for everyday life and smaller trades, they're not great for extraordinary circumstances and high value trades.

Also, you don't have to spend your gold. Eat your beans and when the depression or collapse is over you'll still have your wealth in the form of gold or precious metals.

Even then, it wouldn't. Gold is not as universally useful as food and ammo, but it does have intrinsic value (general acceptability) because women love jewellery, and because it's scarce. Gold has served as a commodity money all over the world for millenia. Besides its general acceptability (which is high, although not as high as that of, say, ammunition), some features of gold as money are:


There are a few others. For instance, see:

economicsdiscussion.net/money/top-8-qualities-of-an-ideal-money-material/609

I agree with what you're saying as well. My main difference is I'm not looking to escape or be smuggled elsewhere. My priorities would be different and I need to remember that.
I do have some silver in case I'm in a position to need it if I live long enough.
What I'm working towards is surviving in a sustainable community of around 50 people. I live in a rural area where a group like that would be a player in rebuilding a society. or could survive on their own. That doesn't mean I plan on larping as a bandit from Mad Max or something, but being able to leverage our strength and resourcefulness in rebuilding society rather than trying to pay our way in.

Somebody put these people out of their misery, they're a fucking living parody.

In addition to, or before a safe, it is worth looking into hardening your house or apartment to make it far harder to break into in the first place. In some parts of Eastern Europe there are doors that are made of solid steel that is about 1" thick. Couple that with bars on the windows, or reinforced/laminated hurricane glass and your entire house is now a safe that would take serious effort for someone to get into. You sleep a lot better too.

A safe full of valuables is begging to be tortured to death.

Isn't that logically inconsistent with your first statement though? By making your home look well guarded, it will look like it protects something valuable, which begs the attention of thieves.

Diamonds have literally ZERO value outside of industrial purposes for cutting.

I can't remember the documentary, but there was one awhile back that interviewed all the cartel heads. Every single one of them said diamonds are completely fucking worthless outside of industrial use.

The "value" of a diamond is entirely manufactured by propaganda.

Id say silver and copper have more values. The former has some medical properties like being antibacterial, while the latter can be shaped into useful items like cookware.

Copper won't have any value, it's abundant and during a systemic crash the demand for it would be nil.

Copper only has value when the industrial demand is sufficient during the rise of a civilization, not the fall.

Two weeks ago npr radio had a segment shilling cashless society and being able to easily transfer money between banks to accounts by some cool hip app (this was us)

Well im glad i bought 50k worth of metal last year

when people take all their money out of banks the bank is fucked since it never had the money to begin with and was loaning on credit, basically when people start withdrawing their money it becomes obvious its just funny money

Jokes on them, good luck carrying a safe with 2000oz of silver in it

I mean if someone has broken in already and finds the safe while you're inside. Fortifying the house can be done discreetly, and dissuades any thieves of opportunity. If you live in a cold climate, you probably already have an inner door and an outer door - fortify the inner door.

Gold won't go far in a FUBAR society. Sure, it might still hold value but how many people are going to give you bread and water for a fraction of a gram of gold? Gold in a FUBAR society would massively lose its value and that 1 kilo of gold you have worth 40.000 euros now will only be worth maybe 100 euros at most if everything goes down. You are literally better off stock piling useful things like alcohol, weapons, edibles, fuel, vehicles, and the like.

Gold is a guarantee of wealth when shit recovers. Ideally you buy guns, grub, gold. What's the point of buying the daily necessities if you dont think you'll make it to the other side?

No point in putting all your eggs in one basket. Spread out your portfolio. Have a bit of everything.

Are you trolling? Diamonds lose value the next minute you bought them.

Nice try Schlomo, diamonds are completely worthless.

Bad safes now!

Wouldn't work in Germany.

Also, I have never heard of people buying safes here. It's well-known that we love to save money, though.

Also "Only chash is real" is actually "Nur Bahres ist Wahres".

It's all about having a decoy safe, not impossibly bolted down, and filled with something very heavy. It needs to be enough of a challenge to make thieves take their time and draw their attention.

Meanwhile, hide money in the bottoms of cereal boxes, false drawers under built in cabinets, under and behind sinks, and under floorboards.

Is that that jewish whore?

Look at soviet jewnion

see what gold's status was there

forget your fucking zombie apocalypse for half a second, not every event will end with Jurassic Park opening on your goddamn lawn.