Paneling / composition

What?
She's on a rock and it just shifts position so the viewpoint is from the bottom of the hill in front of the rock.
You sound really stupid.

Yeah okay

you have to go back

...

Is this bait?
Have you never heard of Watchmen, From Hell, Arkham asylum: a serious house on serious earth, Y the last man?
Or pretty much most things by Morrison or Moore.
No thought not. fuck off

you utter fucking casual

fuck off

I enjoy panel composition but user you fucked up hard.
Get the fuck out

It's about flow and cinematic feel created from panel and scenes. No need for words. Things that most mainstream western comics seems to forget sometimes.

Oh well, it's up to us to review what story is shit or not. To be fair good writing with cinematic style panels tend to win.

You can notice why it's still different than Japanese style panelings. It looks like most comic artists in US came from certain art teachings. So it's all about style in each panel or artistic positioning on all the panels in that page. While Japanese style created a flow, American style force you to sit further back and see the page as a whole.

Sorry pal but the style is still different from Japanese cinematic style. The Watchmen one is more about how you see the entire page as an artform rather than making an interesting flow.

It's not like I'm saying it's bad. Both styles have their own merits.

Other than colors, what's so symmetric about it?

Define "flow", "cinematic", "cinematic feel", and "Japanese cinematic style".

should have posted more but google being a bitch
it's not just the colors being symmetrical on this page but being the same way on other ones later on to call back to this moment

Simple. In most American movies the cinematic flow tend to follow the character since Americans tend to focus on the individual/persona/ego. But with Japanese movie style it tend to incorporate the environement more. Just like the comic OP posted. Other example including the movie Ran by Akira Kurosawa when a man standing still while most of the scene is the cloud in the sky moving rapidly. Or when a summer scene started with montage views of summer plants, bugs accompanied by sound for a minute or so before we actually see the character.

Japan storytelling style is rarely about character. Just like a series of classic Mountain Fuji paintings that depict them from close ups rather than the whole mountains to depict the mountain as bustling area full of pilgrims.

Why does Manga usually feel and read faster than American comics? Similarly it also tends to take far less time to get through 60 pages of European comic than American.

Is it because of differences in paneling, or all the excess dialogue that American writers tend to cram in.

I think it's a good mix of both.

You're got the answer there, twice.

What's the point of bumping a dead thread like that?

What's the point of anything?

To live as to die would equate to more nothingness

Deep…
(I think)

...

What mangas is the image talking about? I only recognize Death note

Franken Fran, Death Note, Hetalia. I'm not sure what the fourth is.
Franken Fran's pretty good, you should read it. I keep meaning to finish it now that it's ended, but I keep forgetting.

Look at the color scheme for each individual panel. The entirety of Watchmen follows those rules with color and panel composition, that way when it breaks those rules (ex: have an image take up multiple panels/have a panel the size of 2+) it has impact.

Fourth one is Detroit Metal City.

Could I point out that the second image is extremely biased, and the game can be played both ways?

Also, can we stop separating manga and comics? THEY'RE THE EXACT SAME THING! The only difference is what country the comic comes from.

Damn it, forget to link a couple of manga examples.

Just from a glance at my shelf..

Cape comics are utter shit, but the American Comic industry as a whole is not devoid of some truly creative stuff.

I'm trying to Google the comics you described there but I can't find anything, can you just tell me the title of the comics?

Locke and Key
King City
Skull Kickers

Stopped reading that shit when they had the racial awareness issue.

you lost me when you used bionicle comics as a counteragument

Ah thank you. I'm gonna check em out.

You'd be surprised how much effort actually went into those stories

Bionicle is a strange merchandise. For some it's just Lego for older demographic but I knew some people are super fanatic with the series and toys. Even willing to spend a lot of money for em.

Speaking of which, how is the new series holding up?

Ever since they kicked out the old guys I haven't paid attention.

They canned it for good. Again.

that universe got fucking deep

also, manga, manhwa and comics are the same thing. Just different names for the same medium.
Some will have things ingrained into their industry that another wont

I wouldn't call them the same, but the industry/ culture is certainly different.

We really should start treating them as part of the same medium (Because they literally are, and the same should go for anime and cartoons).

One of the biggest takeaways I remember an article posting about was about how people were treating it as a big deal that some Star Wars comic was able to sell a million copies (Or something similar), and then the writer compared it to the numbers Attack on Titan is able to pull in and it really showed how insignificant the Star Wars comic really was. However, because people still treat the Japanese an American industry as separate entities, companies can get away with holding themselves to a lesser standard rather than being forced to do better. Let me see if I can find the article…

Alright, here it is:
pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/07/theattack-on-titan-comic-series-just-sold-25-milli.html

AOT is fairly popular, but One Piece outsells it and the next few top-selling series below it, combined. A single fucking volume of One Piece sells more than nearly everything DC and Marvel put out in a year… and this is on top of people already paying for all the issues of Shounen Jump each week that are then collected into that volume.

Maybe it's the black-and-white print style or the type of paper they use or just the way that Japan is hyper condensed, but there's a big enough difference in some ways that keep western comics from even starting to compete, and it's not helped by the stagnant characters, obnoxious annual events, or fully pozzed writers and artists.

Is One Piece any good?
read some as a kid so not sure today

For Shounen shit, it can have it's moments. If you can get past the goofy art-style, you'll find some genuine sympathetic characters, a fascinating world, and writing that is surprisingly coherent and lacking in asspulls.. It's no exaggeration to say that some things that are revealed in the series were hinted at and not revisited for hundreds of chapters. I imagine binge reading will make these even more apparent.

It does feature a little power level bullshit (there's even a timeskip training arc) and it's hard to recommend a 700+ chapter series to read,

I genuinely enjoy it, but I'm the kind of faggot who read Naruto and Bleach to completion while they were still being released… But, for what it's worth, I hated every moment of it for the last few years, but I had to see it through to the end.

It's good, but I can't recommend it. It's too damn long. The characters are likable, it has great worldbuilding, and a great setting, and lots of build up/forshadowing. My only problems with it, besides the length, are that it has too much of "obligatory shonen friendship" dialogue, typical anime face (the cartoony art makes up for it though, would feel like a western cartoon if not for anime face), and occasional power creep later on in the series (but not nearly dbz levels of bullshit). Also really tired of the "Male lead likes to eat and is dumb, but is incredibly intelligent when in a fight" anime trope.

In all fairness, the recent arc has really started kicking Luffy's teeth in (literally) for trying to solve all of his problems by eating and punching. Other than the fight that led to the timeskip, there hasn't been too many times where Luffy really had to deal with the consequences of his actions until now.

It's because manga (and other foreign comics) is more diverse than American comics and on average better written and drawn. There is something there for everyone. In American comics your choices vary between different flavors of superheroes, and stupid hipster garbage, with very few outliers.

I only read about first 100 chapters. Writing is rather good and consistent as far as shounen goes, but art can be rough in the earlier chapters and actions scenes can get messy.

I think it's the approach of their comic that need to studied. First of all look at the image I posted, that's the typical monthly or weekly Manga zasshi/magazine. It got around 10 comics in it and it's as thick as a novel or phone book. Rather than selling them in pieces like American comics they selling them altogether so the reader can read ALL the comics. Then they have pollings about which comic they like the most.

Comics that's on the lowest polling grade several months in a row will face possible cancellation if they can't make it more interesting to the reader. If they failed to gain favour from the reader after several months they will end abruptly and new story from new writer and artist will fill the void.

Meanwhile successful comics will be put together in Tankobon or Trade Paper Back version and sold separately.

So far this technique works well in Japan. I wonder if a company in America is brave enough to try to emulate cape comics in zasshi style. Why? While big cape comics sell well but minor heroes tend to be ignored. With this style reader can read the minor heroes stories because it's already bundled with the magazine. Helping their popularity.

There's a reason why One Piece is the only one left standing from the big three.

The big three is the name for three shonen comics that became goldmine for their respective publishers. The other two is Naruto and Bleach. But both finally ended after excruciating story that keep going on and on. The strength of One Piece is because of the world building. Oda never forget about minor characters and he keep posting little updates to show what happened to them after Luffy's crew left.

This is why the Japanese comics industry is superior

I'm not sure how relevant this article still is (It came out 5 years ago), but it does state the inherit problem with the magazine format Japan is using to sell their comics:

io9.gizmodo.com/5874951/why-manga-publishing-is-dying-and-how-it-could-get-better

Here is a more recent article, though it talks about the anime industry (But it seems like both industries go hand-in-hand):
goboiano.com/original/2895-the-anime-industry-may-be-dying-but-anime-is-not

Interestingly enough, this is also one of the approaches used in Europe, although volumes are not as thick.

Manga bounced back in 2013 and has been slowly growing. Despite scans and Japanese publishers who seem hellbent to don't make any changes.

It's understandable that the sales are declining. Even the giant like Oh My Goddess series finally collapsed because of that (and the sad thing is, they ended the series very abruptly). But now sales are not that bad for publishers that focused on more specific market. Like Ultra Jump, the branch of Jump magazine that selling much more mature manga (including Holla Forums beloved Jojo series) and bimonthly or seasonal manga magazines.

Manga will move to digital one day, but for now the magazine will stay for a decade or so. It's pretty hard to put down printed paper compared to reading them on PC or mobile phone.

The second article is the best one. Self publishing is the key. We just need a united front.

Yeah I actually found out when I read Lampil. Also manga bouncing back because they focused on better market like I said above.

Phonebook anthologies in America are a pipe dream, because they'd be a money pit. Nobody really wants to pay more than 8 bucks to read several stories when they'd rather read one. You couldn't stock them anywhere since rack space is expensive. Comic shops in particular aren't going to order something that'd take up space quickly if left unsold. And the ability to buy comics digitally has made the physical anthology format all but obsolete.

I fucking despise the art and paneling in Arkham because of how that shit looks

Actually kill yourself, OP.
You're a fucking weeb that thinks anything that comes out of Japan is a fucking gift from God himself.

Go outside of your safe space for 5 minutes and go read a western comic. Instead of assuming every single comic is on par with The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, which you only saw screencaps of 3 pages in a designated Marvel shitting thread, why don't you go pick up something good, like a book from Heavy Metal or 2000AD? Maybe try a European sci-fi comic.

As I said, all you do is read the shitty manga that are translated by westerners. They only translate the good stuff, so the shitty things made in 10 minutes with big tits to make a quick buck are ignored.

I'd put money on your room being filled with posters of shitty big-titted anime girls, wall scrolls and at least 1 shelf dedicated to showing off dozens of shitty figurines.
You're a generic weeb that acts like your taste is superior to us filthy gaijin, and you should consider using your imported katana or nunchaku to disembowel or suffocate yourself, respectively.

More than a little pissed off with these fucking weebs making posts every day.

At least DC has shown some attempt to get better since their decline in the 70s. Marvel has just always been on the pop culture wagon.

yeah 4 bucks for one story (maybe whole story if you're lucky) plus most of the paper space taken by ads, what a steal

Dude, most comics cost between 2 - 5 bucks each. 22 pages of comics, plus probably 8 pages for ads, editorial letter, flashbacks, preview for next issues or just plain garbage. Having 10 comics in one for 8 to 10 bucks is quite a steal.

fuck off

that phrase sounds like that other stupid phrase "capeshit"
I'll try get back into One Piece, need something long to dive into

this

You sound like someone who doesn't know jack shit about comics. No one wants to buy issues. The bigger, the better. The reason manga or comics like Fables do so well is because they're sold in thick volumes that feel like a steal, and are easier to mantain.

That's after they're serialized though. That just illustrates that most people would rather trade-wait for complete collections, which also works against anthologies.

The thing is, people don't do this because it's a collection. It's just that it's more bang for your buck. Shonen Jump in NA was extremely successful when manga was at its peak popularity back in the 2000s. Its first issue sold 300,000 copies.

If they tried this with the current line-up of comics, it'd probably tank since no one buys this shit in the first place. But if they want to make money like they used to, they need to ditch making issues and do what Japan does. A large anthology magazine, and complete volumes of different runs. And maybe the boost anthology sales, add popular old comics into the mix that people might not have otherwise read.

Also consider: American comics are full color, glossy, fairly good quality paper and sometimes take a fairly large team of people to produce, on top of needing several ads per book to afford publication.

I don't need my comics to have glossy paper and computer shading effects. I was fine with newsprint and four-color. I could probably even get used to black and white if the art were made with monochromatic printing in mind.

Fuck the paper and ink they are using right now. It is far too easy to leave fingerprints on, and it is one of the factors that keeps me from buying physical editions of American books instead of downloading them. Glares that are produced by the glossy paper don't help either.

Japan also had big team for each comic. They consists of:

The Editor
Writer (usually also the penciler)
Penciler (usually also the writer)
2 or 3 inkers
1 background artist (optional)

Gantz for example, is a weekly release comic. You will be surprised since it's a very detailed comic with lots of backgrounds. Sure it's black and white but even then the detail is still very impressive for weekly release comic.

Also ads are pretty common in Japanese magazines too. But hey, that's magazine for ya.