Pulse

20 dead, up to 40 injured, gunman had possible Islamic State ties.
stuff.co.nz/world/americas/80983374/reports-of-nightclub-shooting-in-united-states

Also gay night club

Holla Forums is showing they hate muslims more than gays

Other urls found in this thread:

versobooks.com/blogs/2422-no-more-heroes-franco-bifo-berardi-after-david-bowie
youtube.com/watch?v=I6uU8mgLmgk
humanosphere.org/science/2015/10/visualizing-gun-deaths-comparing-u-s-rest-world/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_ISIL
brainjet.com/random/1092/9-unexpectedly-high-death-statistics-you-wouldnt-believe
hownew.ru
theintercept.com/2016/06/12/before-nightclub-shooting-fbi-pursued-questionable-florida-terror-suspects/
theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/jun/13/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-pulse-nightclub-live
youtube.com/watch?v=JvcEP0EjqIc
spreekillers.ch/?o=vic
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

ok

They only care about gays when it helps their ideology, like people who rightly attack the false inflated rape statistics but then act like the trans bathroom issue is going to lead to an epidemic of sexual assault everywhere.

Specific targeted terror attack directed at a gay club?
This is going to cause serious waves.

Yeah, just like the last 50 million mass shooting/terror attacks after which nothing changed.

I hate when those happen in the US, because it means I'll spend the next four or five days fighting both islamophobia and anti-gun horseshit.

Over 100 persons in a small, cramped space, and not one tried to attack or stop the lone shooter in some way? Incredible.

Mark Wahlberg pls go

internet toughguy.jpg

no

this will probably help trump more than it helps hillary (if it's a muslim dude). as ISIS falls apart in Syria and Iraq, they'll start focusing more resources on international terrorism. accelerationtists can look forward to their First Orange President.

...

dont tage my gums :DDDD dog bless

Clearly we are not tolerant enough of the camel-fucker pedo religion for this to happen.

Fuck the next person who claims this attack was carried out as "revenge" for US imperialism.

I mean, WTF do a bunch of random fags have to do with US invasions/occupations overseas?

Just got confirmed about 50 people dead and about 50 more in the hospital. Shit's fucked, man. We should have never invaded Iraq.

lol, the west fucked up a long time ago. Ever since we got involved in the Middle East it's been nothing but trouble, even before Iraq.

ideology

Forgot to take your flag off, OP.

Just wait for Jason Unruhe's next tweet celebrating the attacks as a "victory to the Third World" like the raging narcissist he is.

...

Not OP.

Fuck Islam and fuck religious death cults everywhere.

fuck statistics amirite

What? It objectively is about US foreign policy.

Do you think that just because you disagree with their fucked up tactics it somehow changes the reasoning behind the attacks?

Is anyone really surprised anymore?

Whenever a plane crashes, it is a coin flip as to whether or not it is due to Islamic terrorism or not.

Whenever there is a mass shooting or bombing, it is a coin flip as to whether or not it is due to Islamic terrorism or not.

Whenever a new conflict breaks out in Africa, western China, India, the near east, the middle east or the far east; Islam is almost always at the center of it.

Islam (regardless of what variety) is one of the most dangerous ideologies out there today.
Any sane country would ban it in all of its horrid totality and institute a practice of Damnatio Memoriae upon it.

The blood of the 50+ people that died because of Islam today is on the hands of those that preach "tolerance" and "coexistence".

Evidence?

lol

Thank you for giving me a laughter after all that. I love when people who see the world in simplistic terms get overly dramatic.

This tbh. Western imperialism has fucked up South American and Asia pretty badly but they never caused terrorism if this scale.

Absolutely no way that I'll spend my time educating you on the 101 of Islamic terrorist organizations, their stated goals and recruiting patterns. Go with the "oh, this means you can't prove it! line if you want, this is Wikipedia-tier research I'm not going to make for you.

the superstructure is determined by the base, if islam itself was the only problem, how come there was no problems with islam in Malaysia until Saudi teachers started showing up? The Saudi's exported this ideology to the rest of the world and where able to thanks to their strategic partnership with the US, their massive amounts of oil money, and the desperate economic state of Muslims in the middle east and around the world.

You sound a lot like a useful idiot right now.

Americans in this board, tell me: is the fact he was a registered Democrat (+ the fact he's a islamic terrorist) likely to make Trump's intention of vote change?

Because the radicalization of Muslims and their ability to carry out attacks is fuel by people saying we shouldn't outright genocide muslims in the Western World
Get the fuck out of the thread tripfag

IS is not as motivated by the recent western aggression as it is motivated by religious purism and myth. That's why they've been murdering homosexuals, apostates, religious minorities, destroying non-islamic cultural artifacts, etc. They're more interested in social and societal issues internal to the islamic world.

Different groups have different motives. al Qa'eda didn't fly those hijacked planes into gay bars.

An islamic gunman's attacking a gay bar suggests anti-gay sentiment, not anti-imperialistic vengeance.

Not an American, but I can almost guarantee that it will do its job just like any terrorist attack does its job: polarize. So yes, Trump will most likely benefit from this.

Sometimes Holla Forums uses this as a memestastic argument.

Of course material bases determine the superstructure. Ideology itself though is quite different, in Marx ideology is when you believe irrational things and you don't have rational explanation for it. Ideology is social production, it doesn't come about only from the base material production, that's a just the vulgar materialist explanation of it.

The primitive ideology of Muslim fundamentalism almost always says "west does this, so we must do the opposite". It is a childish form of thinking and looking at the world.

Nice compartmentalization. Gay bars are a symbol of everything wrong with western culture in their eyes. The war against western culture is a product of the feelings generated by western imperialism.

IS wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for western powers destabilizing the region.

It's caused by Late Capitalism more than anything. These "lone wolf" shooters are created by alienation, not imperialism. Trained ISIS fighters are a different story of course: ISIS gets funding from NATO member Turkey and US ally Saudi Arabia.

Finland and Switzerland have lots of guns too faggot. The reason USA deaths are so high is because we don't have robust mental health and welfare to prevent suicides and crimes.

Would you prefer totalitarianism instead? If you'd rather believe that all islamists have the same beliefs, motives, and goals, go for it.
This was never in question.

It is funny how leftypol almost defends islamists if it helps his anti-capitalistic cause.

True left always was atheistic, anti-religion, anti middle-ages-tier bullshit.

Being left means being against christianity, islam and other organized religions. But islam is much more dangerous than christianity as of now, it kills and stones people.

fuck off retard

...

what the fuck are you talking about?

We defend Islamists from retarded reactionary attacks, just like we defend middle-eastern secularists against islamic Fundamentalism.

And there's no "common ground against capitalism" here, you're deliberately misinterpreting our point.

This thread contains some islam apologetics.

Is ISIS recruiting people of the beta uprising again?

islam apologetics =/= islamist apologetics

how hard is it to understand the difference between those who do not condemn all muslims based on the actions of a few cunts and those who endorse the actual cunts

This is a right thing to do, though I have seen little of it.

Shouldn't middle-eastern theocracies be forcefully dismantled to free the people from religious tyranny? The conditions in this region are truly inhumane (I could give examples).

It's a humane thing to do to remove theocracy once and for all, IMHO. Christian/Islam/Hindu/whatever apologetics is reactionary.

It is the perfect religion for impotent betas, justifying the domination of women and the destruction of any difference.

It doesn't have anyone defending islamism. Islamism is political islam. newsflash: those kurds we like who are fighting ISIS are all largely muslims themselves. muslims are perfectly capable of living in a secular society and joining the left wing cause.

Now that's a childish interpretation. They dislike western thinking and culture since they are afraid of becoming a part of it for two reasons, one their traditions tell them its sinful and to admit their traditions are wrong is to admit a part of their identity is wrong. But furthermore, if they doubt this and begin to judge themselves by western standards they come to a startling conclusion of inferiority. When the material conditions do not allow them to easily become westernized, or embracing westernism doesn't bring with it material improvements, then this is the bitter hatred that is produced.

tl;dr: read zizek

Islamic fundamentalism is not even Ideology in the sense we tend to think of it.

Ideology serves a class purpose, Ideology shapes the individual's consciousness in accordance with prevailing socioeconomic practices. Islamic fundamentalism was developed for political purposes, it's not universalist and it's not a direct consequence of material conditions. Calling it Ideology would be like calling Jim Jones-esque cults Ideology. True in a sense, but besides the point of most analysis of Ideology.

Does religion even have a place in post-revolution world?

Does violent, tyrannical by design (read quaran if you haven't) religion have a right to exist?

lol fuck off Chris Hitchens

Of course! After all, "civilizing imperialism" has proven itself effective many, many times.

This line of thinking is idiotic, and in the particular context of the Middle East is completely ignorant, given how much of its conditions have degenerated as a direct result of foreign influence.

They were a bunch of gays after all.

What were they gonna do? Insult his haircut till death?

plz prove/disprove

I hate modern western realpolitic tbh, it explicitly abandoned ideals of spreading civilization abroad.That's how we got to the reality of ~1.5 bln people living a nice western lifestyle while ~6 bln people live in 3rd world shitholes under opressive theo-authoritarian regimes. If you think that middle-easterners or pakistanis like living under their regimes you are mistaken.

Saying "we respect their religous freedom" is equivalent to "fuck you we don't care about your shithole problems"

USSR at least had some honesty in this regard: it spread communism, atheistic materialism and infrastructure to poor people from shitholes.

Religion can be reformed. It's not a fixed point. The willingness of the society to perform the reformation largley has to do with the material conditions present.

This thread contains people who understand how religion, fundamentalism and terrorism are developed, and you.

Well I mean, if we did, we'd probably either destroy these countries beyond repair or would leave them be only to watch a new form of islamism rise. Or a secular dictator would seize control, which isn't necessarily better (look at the amount of people who have died because of Assad)


The problem with religion is that pretty much nobody ever actually lives exactly by these holy books, first and foremost because there is so much contradiction within these books that it becomes a logical impossibility to live by these books to begin with. Any religion can be interpreted as peaceful and harmonious, and any religion can be interpreted as violent and tyrannical.

Would the world be more peaceful without religion? Probably. How are we going to force people to stop being religious, though? And should we even want to exercise that amount of thought control upon people?

wrong answer
gays are good at self-defense because it's already dangerous to be gay

but guns and knives are ALWAYS prohibited inside clubs, that's why nobody could kill him. I don't understand how he got into though, maybe he killed the entry guards.

...

he was a security guard himself, so he probably knew how to deal with whatever security was there

This.

The psychopathologies of mass shooters are influenced by social darwinist ideology of neoliberalism.

Read this book.

Prove what? You're a terminally retarded faggot if you think Western countries invading the Middle East is a good idea.

Well at least they aren't celebrating the deaths of gay people. Baby steps, I guess.

nah they're also celebrating

They didn't have to kill him. Tackle him, group rush him, throw chairs or bottles at him, something. He couldn't stop every one there, and he had to reload at least once.

There's no such thing as a revolutionary ideology, so no. Even Marxist communism is reactionary at most.

This is why gun apologists are stupid. As long as there are places like clubs, churches, schools, and other places where carrying arms is strictly forbidden, there will be targets for mass murderers. Unless you want a state in which everyone carries a gun at every moment, the thought of guns improving safety is beyond ridiculous.


They'll blame us for anything my dude.

Fuck off troll

Maybe on 8ch but on halfchan they are all just shitting on Muslims and liberals crying about gun control.

This is like those Cologne rapes. They pretend to like gays for a few days because they hate muslims more, but afterwards go back to being edgy

You first, pussy.

Sad thing about hearing this is to realise that there are people today who'd probably buy the "meth addiction" if they were born earlier.

People don't start wars to spread progress, they start wars when they can bring material reward. People don't get rid of religion when someone tells them to, people get rid of religion when it can no longer provide guidance and no longer corresponds to their material means of life. People in invaded countries don't tend to accept invaders as "liberators", they fight against them. And people who get invaded don't magically leap into the First World once the oppressive governments are out.


You almost speak like these people *want* you to start wars with them.


Please don't start the cringeworthy "hello there fellow leftists" stuff.

The Lt. Gov. of Texas just tweeted this. What a guy.

It's opportunistic support. Like when they gave half a shit about feminism after the Cologne incident. It'll last a week.

You are not a leftist then.


So what's your solution then, just sit and wait while these people live miserable lives? See how it looks like from the inside:


If you are ok with hundreds of millions of people living like that you are ignorant monstrosity of a human.

t. Marxist

...

This is probably the exact kind of shit an islamist would say. It's just crazy.


I wonder how Trump would have done had he been president during the Cold War.

That's because they already possess two conflicting ideologies, on the one hand they recognize that Western capitalism is infinitely superior economically to their backwater Middle-east countries, but on the other hand Islam functions as an ideological "super-ego" telling them it's of because of their reactionary primitive way of life that they are like that, but because , West somehow is dominating their life style. Muslims don't give a fuck about "openness", they use Western economic "openness", to introduce their own dominant way of life, as Islam is obsessed about survival.

I can't explain this exactly but every leftist should read this book, it is THE absolutely materialist exposition of Islam. From it's birth, it's origin to it's current form, and it is nothing good.

You are an idiot and the reason why the left is losing ground. How dumb and weak do you have to be to actually care more about a terrorist than his victims?

Crazy book.

The fuck? Did you misread my post or something?

...

This may be framed not as war but as humanitarian aid, or peacemaking campaing, whatever.

They do, see USSR civilizing central asia.
see above

Well I know at least some people that want for the west to invade their country, set up a western-tier political system and help them live like humans.
I don't think that this sentiment is shared by the majority of population, but I also think that the majority will support it once the material benefits of new order will become apparent.

USSR successfully industrialized a few large central-asian shitholes (kazakhstan, turkmenisten, *-stan). People living there are generally happy about this, and there is no violent islamist movements there.

At least I'm thinking of ways to help real people, while you look influenced by western realpolitik and cancerous postmodern moral relativity.

It is sad that even lefties do not wish to spread civilization to the billions of people desperately needing it.

This doesn't quite ring true when we are also talking about very rich countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The inferiority I was talking about was not an economic one but a cultural one that is more subjective, one that they will only arrive at if they begin to doubt their own ideology and entertain liberalism.

The economic models of middle east countries are not much different from other regions of the world but that is a part of the problem, as western capitalism has further disrupted their traditions, where this has not followed up on the promise of western prosperity there has been unrest.

I am for worldwide communism, not western imperialism. Pretty fucking simple. So you claim you have relatives in Dubai. Well Dubai is a western favorite: we even put it in all our action movies. The slavery in Dubai is part of capitalism, not Islam.

Did´nt you write that "they did´nt have to kill him"? I mean I understand that they could have bullrushed him but who cares if hes alive or not?

Have you even read the official tracts of ISIS? They specifically want to get rid off of western secularism so they can swallow the in their war of Islamic domination. They beleive that the western/eastern opposition is a false one and Islam is genuinely the only way to govern the world. The fact that they are also anti-racist, anti-imperialist, makes it all the more eerie in its cultish universalism.

Religion is a man made concept. It can be altered however people see fit. Historically it's been changed to fit the culture of the day.

Would I prefer that it didn't exist? Yes. But I don't see how we can force people to give up religion entirely. I'd rather reform it along non-hierarchical lines.

How are you going to force people to stop believing?

does Afghanistan ring a bell?

this is fake right?

Repurpose churches, butn the "holy" books, dismantle popes, give people alternative humanistic worldview and values, give people more education.

Basically what ussr did but more carefully planned and with better prepared alternative worldview part.

Religion is an opium for the masses, it should be abolished. It's just a question of how to abolish it so it doesn't go underground.

"They didn't have to kill him" meant that they could have stopped him, and fought back in multiple ways.

One failed case doesn't devalue a few successful ones.

...

and do you also understand that western imperialism played a big role in that, by funding the islamists? hence why you're a massive fucking retard if you think the west can be trusted invading a middle eastern country.

PEAK IDENTITY POLITICS

It is always impossible to implement your plan perfectly. But alternative is much worse - a status quo where billions of people live physically miserable lives.

If you deny that you are impotent pussy weenie american smug postmodern joke of a leftist.

Classic.

"Here lies the origin of the late-modern form of tragedy: at the threshold where illusion is mistaken for reality, and identities are perceived as authentic forms of belonging. It is often accompanied by a desperate lack of irony, as humans respond to today’s state of permanent deterritorialization by enacting their craving for belonging through a chain of acts of murder, suicide, fanaticism, aggression, war."

Well, my argument is more about ussr-like state invading/liberating middle east.

But absent ussr even western invasion is better than status quo.

But be at ease: for your western leaders don't even want to invade anything anymore because spreading western values worldwide is not what they are interested in. Enjoy your status quo…

i wasn't the user you replied to, i was just memeing

Oh, like in Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Are you a troll?

That's because these countries nested themselves quite comfortably in the American global liberal capitalist order by effectively becoming petro-states. All of their wealth comes from that, in that sense they are indeed inferior to the west, and see the exporting of democracy and secularism as effectively invading their back yard. So they export Islamic ideology as their own form of imperialistic domination of smaller middle-east countries.

Look at what is happening in Turkey, effectively a prosperous secular nation now torn apart because it is becoming Islamist. Look at how how the sunni fundamentalist Hamas gutted the PLO and Fatah in Palestine , effectively ruining once more in peace process in the west bank. Look at Syria, Lebanon and Iraq.

Islam is nothing special, it is the middle-eastern equivalent of reactionary politics, far more than Ba'athism which at least did have some progressive elements in secularization and education. Islam on the other hand because of of it's intimate ties and history with political domination of it's subjects, is almost always tied with Theocracy.

More like US invasion of Japan
Japan was modernized and became a prosperous country after that.

Sounds like that's going to cause a lot of unnecessary tension amongst the proletariat. Should go over well.

Marx meant that it's a tool to ease class tensions that's being used to obfuscate the disease by treating the symptoms. Not that it's some plague to be eradicated. Like the state it will wither away with more equitable material conditions.

Japan didn't modernize for several decades after WWII. The rest of Asia modernized at the same rate or faster without an American occupation.

I know this is fake but it's genius.

Japan never lagged behind other asian countries, in mere 35 years after the US invasion, by 1980 it was already a world power. Thailand, philippines, pakistan and similar countries haven't caught up even today.

Southern korea is another example of invasion that accelerated country's development.

Northern korea is a failed example like afganistan, people live in shit there.

wtf this can't be real

right?

It´s just banter

The vast majority of those deaths are from niggers killing eachother, retard

The US isn't the only country on that list with lots of guns. Notice how most of those countries are SocDem with high standards of living and a social safety net.

Also
Fuck off to >>>/liberalpol/

They don't know the difference between leftists and liberals. They really are blaming liberals, just using the wrong term.

>>>Holla Forums


The least the USA could do is to implement stricter laws and see if it has any effect on homicide rates. If there is no difference, reverse the laws, if there is, keep it that way. I don't see how such an approach could go wrong.

...

>>>/oven/

This is what liberals actually believe
>>>/suicide/

Try actually giving arguments as to why that wouldn't work, knob.

They just arrested a guy in Santa Monica with assault weapons and explosives who was headed to the LA Pride parade.

Islam is pretty much Unfuckable Beta: The Ideology.

There's nothing to fix you humongous faggot

America's gun deaths are vastly inflated because NIGGERS kill eachother in vast quantities.

America doesn't have a gun problem, it has a fucking nigger problem.

How do you communist faggots intend to have your 'le revolution' without guns anyway, are you fucking retarded?

Fuck. How long until Ramadan is over?

...

why r u here lmao

July 8th or 9th or something.

...

(You)

...

(You)

link?

What a bizarre straw man. There's a big difference between "genociding" them in the western world, which is strange hyperbole very far from anything that is politically mainstream in the world right now, and people saying "you know what, they're better off in their own cultures in their own countries, let us keep ours to ourselves."

LA Times.

When I instruct a patient to abandon reflection of any kind and to tell me whatever comes into his head, I am relying firmly on the presumption that he will not be able to abandon the purposive ideas inherent in the treatment and I feel justified in inferring that what seem to be the most innocent and arbitrary things which he tells me are in fact related to his illness. Free association works precisely because we don't freely associate.

So tell me, Mr. "Nazi,"
Why is it that you're so obsessed with triggering?

GUY ON CNN RIGHT NOW IS SAYING IT'S ALWAYS US-BORN PEOPLE WHO SUCCEED AT TERRORISM

BRACE YOURSELF FOR MORE SURVEILLANCE BULLSHIT

so much for freedom

what do we do about islam?

OBAMA SAID HE IS PUTTING ALL FBI RESOURCES ON THIS.

HOW CONVENIENT FOR HILLARY

the carving up the ottoman empire is where we really fucked up

Apparently this is the worst mass shooting in U.S. history. wew lads

Anti-gun scumbag. Leftist on most things but honestly fucking kill yourself swine.

Islamic nations like Saudi Arabia have low crime rates tbqh, even factoring in state abuse of civil rights, and ISIS is on their shit list too for diplomatic reasons: ISIS isn't waging a war on non-Muslims, it's waging a war on the United States because it wants a mass retaliation so they can have their holy war.

Reading up on early reports of the shooter, it's pretty clear that he was a mentally unstable individual, his father said this rage started when he saw a gay couple kissing in public. I think there is a fair amount of evidence that he just personally hated gays, not sinners of Islam.

That's exactly how ISIS recruits people and why their recruits are almost never already devoutly religious. They don't appeal with their ideology, they provide an outlet for angry young men that want to cause harm to others. Non-devout Muslims are so much easier to recruit for the same reason the alt-right is so appealing to self-hating white males–it offers a sense of belonging, of having real opportunity to influence the world.

Obviously, some idiot liberals are going to pretend Islam isn't involved in any way, but at the same time, when was the last time a devoutly Christian man thought it's okay to bomb an abortion clinic?

from what i've seen it seems like they hate gays even more, they're almost applauding the attack

either way, what it does show is individual terror and identity politics is everything right wingers are about

Why are you mad at me for disliking violence and death, user? :^)

This is what liberals actually believe.

you need to step up your dialectics, son

...

in fairness to our liberal comrade, if the government actually banned guns, there would probably be a reduction in mass shootings and gun violence in general (although poor, urban areas with gangs would likely be less affected). i still disagree with banning weapons because i feel it's government overreach. these mass shootings are just the price we pay for (some) liberty.

This kind of stuff isn't really surprising when you recognize that we're essentially at war with Islamic/Middle Eastern Nationalism. How many people will Obama kill with drones this week?

How many of them will be bystanders who just happened to be within the blast radius of the target?

this is not directly related to our relations with the middle east. the shooter's father said his son got angry when he saw a gay couple kissing. it seems that his homophobia stemming from islam was a major cause.

That would happen only if the government managed to take possession of all the guns in circulation, including the many illegal ones that are not registered or catalogued anywhere. So, an impossibility.

you can't argue it's not an influence. plenty of people are disgusted at gay men, but not all of them shoot up night clubs.

You forgot who you're quoting:
versobooks.com/blogs/2422-no-more-heroes-franco-bifo-berardi-after-david-bowie

its not just the bystander issue; blowing up people in villages because you suspect them of potentially harboring anti-US sentiment is in in no way justifiable

He wasn't talking about Islam. He was talking about Islamic Nationalism and US foreign policy.

I agree, but people tend to assume that if someone was the target, they were a legitimate target. There's much more of a rage factor when any joe schmo walking down the street could get killed because they walked past somebody the government was trying to kill.

Sounds like you aren't very familiar with the idea of precision bombing, user :^)


Alright, but to what end is this liberty? The only real purpose this liberty has is to be safe, but if giving people the liberty to use guns only causes more deaths, can we really say it makes us safe at all?

In any case, the biggest problem for me isn't the fact that firearms are legal, but that they are so damn easy to get your hands on.


This is why I believe in a more gradual approach, if anything. Of course randomly banning guns will be about as effective as the alcohol prohibition in the 1920s, but with legislature that slowly ramps up the requirements and, while not making guns illegal, slowly reducing the amount of guns in circulation, I think in the long term gun violence could be reduced greatly.

L I B E R A L S
I
B
E
R
A
L
S

Indeed


Not that I disagree with your general points, but the the WWII Axis powers and Korea aren't very good examples (I'd pick moderately less horrible British colonies like India and Kenya).

The Axis powers were already heavily industrialized and quite wealthy pre-war, so all the Allied occupation had to do was make their government democratic, and switch the feedstocks of their resource-poor economies from plunder to international trade.

South Korea, much like South Vietnam (one of the main reasons IMHO for the Northern victory) and Taiwan, was actually a quasi-fascist poverty-stricken dictatorship rather than an industrialized democratic nation for decades of its history, only pulling ahead of North Korea economically over the 1970s, and finally becoming democratic only by the 1990s. This is a good overview of the subject:
youtube.com/watch?v=I6uU8mgLmgk

They aren't even tracking people anymore. They essentially track SD cards. Signals intelligence took over the whole game.

Gun control is a meme issue meant to give the illusion of differences among the parties. By giving people a say in a few issues, we maintain the facade of a democratic system without actually having to maintain one.

This is my feeling, but it's only the illegal guns, mainly handguns, that need to be taken out of circulation. Of course, those guns are already illegal – they can't be made more illegal; which means that the existing laws just need to be properly enforced. The question is, how do you physically remove guns from circulation? It's hard to imagine it being achieved without police raiding houses and taking guns out of criminals' waistbands, or other coercive/authoritarian methods.

tbh fam what are you even doing on this board

guns are meant to provide 'the people' as a broad category the means to overthrow a government they no longer support. to disarm the proletariat is to set revolutionary progress a century.

They are not the proletariat.

...

in just about every recent mass shooting the guns were acquired legally. if the government banned the sale of all weapons, it would be much more difficult for the average person to get a semi-automatic weapon. most of these mass shooting are carried out by people who are middle class and have no affiliation with organized crime. i agree, though, that urban areas dominated by gangs would largely be unaffected.


when australia banned certain weapons, the number of mass shootings dropped drastically. i dont agree with such measures, but i think they would decrease the number of shootings overall for sure.

Yes? And? Berardi is great.

Agreed. I'm actually pro-gun, but I acknowledge the ± effect on crime to be in statistical rounding-error territory, and the chances of needing them for political reasons in the modern 1st world to be extremely remote.

Similar nonissues (either because they have no significant impact in either direction, or because any significant change on the issue is politically impossible) are Social Security privatization, the death penalty, abortion, illegal immigration (but NOT legal immigration), AIDS, prostitution, homosexuality, kidnapping, rape, pedophilia, and animal rights.

God I hate Trump more than anything at the moment.

Not necessarily a fierce proponent of gun control, but I'd say theses stats are visually manipulative and downright misleading. It compares countries on the sole basis of firearm ownership with no regard to other factors such as socioeconomic status.

It goes without saying that the US gun crime rate will look tiny when compared to that of a shithole like Honduras — heck, that's the case for most of the world's gun crime rate. If you need a comparison with Honduras to prove a point, you're most probably wrong.

Sounder stats would compare the US to other first-wold democratic nations.

humanosphere.org/science/2015/10/visualizing-gun-deaths-comparing-u-s-rest-world/

orwell hated gays and loved guns, much like last night's attacker


hmmmmmmmmm

Mass shootings are a statistical irrelevance to gun violence. The overwhelming majority of gun assaults and murders are done with handguns, illegal ones. Organised crime isn't really part of it; unless gang violence, drug violence, and armed robbery qualify "organised."

I am in australia. What happened here is not applicable to the U.S. The situations are very different.

How exactly are such themes as abortion and rape not legitimate concerns?

When I complain about gun legality causing more deaths, I'm talking about gun legality in countries that are not completely poor and have a state that doesn't give a fuck about making laws and enforcing them.



That whole proletariat uprising thing was a very cute and interesting thought back in the day when citizens with firearms actually had the power to overthrow the government. These days, you will never overthrow the government with just guns if they have the army behind them. Guns don't mean shit, what matters is whose side the army is on (and if they're on your side, I hope you enjoy living under the reign of a junta, haha)


Well yeah, you can't physically remove them, so you just grandfather those who already own guns but make sure they don't illegally sell their guns or pass it on to others in some way.

Hell, I don't even fucking know, really. Maybe I'll just have to accept that the USA is destined to crash and burn.

orwell hated gays and loved guns, much like last night's attacker


hmmmmmmmmm>>726356


im saying that if guns were illegal people would have to get their guns via a black market, which many mass shooters aren't likely to be affiliated with.

Hows so..?

is good book would suggest

This is what liberals actually believe.

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Only if those states have similar population numbers and densities, ethnoracial and socioeconomic (class) demographics, mass culture, histories, religious cultures, etc. It's simply false to compare the US with somewhere like Finland or Italy.


That's where criminals get them from now.
But they might turn to the illegal market if legal means are removed. As I said, mass shootings are statistically very uncommon, so they're not very relevant.
The US has 320 million persons; Australia has 23 million. The US has a significant population of blacks and hispanics; Australia is majority "white." The US has virtually no welfare state and significant poverty; Australia is a functional social democracy with much less poverty. Guns are ingrained in the US culture and history, and there are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation, with hundreds of millions of owners; Australia always had very few guns and few owners, even before the bans, and there is no historical or contemporary "gun culture" comparable to that of the US.

I'm not a statistician, but those are a few obvious points of difference.

I hope ISIS gets defeated before the US election or else dumb rednecks and neolibs are going to get us into yet another Middle Eastern war.

The US couldn't hold Iraq and Afghanistan due to a number of factors. Unfamiliar territory, a hostile local population, tribal leaders who held more social power than the centralized government (at least in Afghanistan anyway)
Comparing that to a war in the U.S. is ridiculous.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_ISIL

We're already in one long unending war.

This is about angering the West, and they consider non-radical Muslims heretics.
They don't care about, say, Japan or South America. They care about Europe and the US.

You're correct that different problems apply to domestic insurgency - but you're naive to think they are less serious. US soldiers will be reluctant to shoot their own people - some will sympathize with the rebels, rebels will infilitrate the army far more easily, and you shouldn't underestimate the effect an insurgency can have on the supply chains which modern militaries depend.

It's true that a workers' uprising won't defeat the US army in a pitched battle, but why on earth would we give them one?

Let's read something MUCH more important:
brainjet.com/random/1092/9-unexpectedly-high-death-statistics-you-wouldnt-believe


That's kinda' the point, the US prosperity sucks for a 1st-world nation, that's the long and short of it, period. And don't go all "muh 3rd-world" on me, since the 1st world is spread all over that graph from one end to the other. Moreso, not very long ago, gun regulations in many present-day 1st-world nations were far laxer (Switzerland had not just military weapons, but ammo, passed out to everyone, the US allowed civilian SMGs and machineguns, practically nobody had any kind of registration or tracking, etc…) and yet crime rates weren't any worse or better at all.

Pistols, sniper/hunting rifles, a smattering of full-auto weapons, and plenty of easily homemade high explosives, have given guerrillas victory over every single modern military. About the only fancy weapon guerrillas benefit from is MANPADS. Granted, most really nice weapons would probably come from looting the numerous and poorly guarded armories spread all around the country, so the biggest long-term benefit to a well armed populace is in being a good marksman.


Abortion because there's a -0% chance of it being overturned, and demand is so tiny that the amount of money spent bitching about "pro-life" losers in the media could privately fund it nationwide with cash to spare. Rape mostly for the same reason as kidnapping in that "stranger danger" is hilariously overblown, but even rape as a whole is statistically minute.


A large part of this is because the Founding Fathers intentionally made the military and police draw from the general civilian population, rather than having a "military class" like most other countries at the time. They also had the military be temporary, and harshly denounced permanent standing military forces, something I very much agree with.

Not the user you were replying to, but this is a copout:
You're seriously suggesting that 50 people murdered in swift succession (ie it happened in the span of 4 minutes or so) is the same as annual statistics?

Please consider suicide, so that you too can be a tally for your culture of fear.

I actually agree with you when it comes to crime.

However, I'd be more cautious when it comes to abortion. It definitely isn't much of an issue in say western Europe where even far-right parties wouldn't dare question it… but in the US, there actually are constant attempts by the Christian Right to attack reproduction rights in one way or another. Conservatives even tried to pull similar moves in Spain not so long ago.

What kind of dumb fuck tanky faggot are you that thinks 50 people dying and dozens more being injured deserves no respect?

Yeah, because Sharia is basically dictatorship.

End this meme, cops have no problem shooting "their own people" because they've been trained to view them as the enemy. The same would be true of soldiers in a hypothetical workers uprising.
Hell look at labor violence in the 19th century. The Pinkertons had no problem killing their fellow Americans.
This part i agree with.

And that's the only way to truly have public safety without diligence, a Big Brother no-fun state.

This violence in the US can only be stopped with complete censorship of media and communication. Not wanting to persecute Muslims is a matter of pragmatism, not muh opreshun.

Those are all state-level (or local!), purely symbolic acts, which are swiftly quashed by the higher levels of government. I keep hearing about scaaary attempts to overturn Roe v. Wade, but I've never seen any credible attempt to do so.

Are you saying you don't have any respect for 150 people getting their skulls smashed open by coconuts? On a local level, sure, it's a terrible tragedy. In the bigger picture, it doesn't even merit a 1-liner in a newspaper.


Those people weren't soldiers or cops, but vaguely political paramilitaries for hire, like the Weimar German freikorps.

Education.

No, I'm saying that you don't have any respect for what sane people call dialectical materialism. Your post is all rhetoric and posturing.

plenty of people own guns and don't go on mass shootings. plenty of people dont own guns yet still exhibit excessively violent behavior. clearly guns are not the issue; we need to look at the factors that coerce people into shooting up crowded night clubs.

Gee, there is fucking nothing that has changed in the US since the 1970's except that gun ownership has gone up. Literally nothing else. That's the only reason for the surge of mass shootings that have mostly been happening in the last ten years.

And as we speak the EU is considering stricter control of legal guns to stop people with illegal guns from killing people.

if you count 40 years of me fucking ur mum as nothing, then sure I guess nothing has happened since the 70s

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Unfortunately the only people saying this and being heard thing "lol ban muslims" will somehow fix anything, whether or not Islam condones such atrocities.

What I don't get is how the fact that he was a wife beating domestic abuser with a job in security isn't some kind of red flag.

dialectical materialism? wtf

He apparently also was on a watchlist of people with possible sympathies for Islamic State. I seriously have no idea how they managed to fuck up this bad, it shouldn't be so hard to deny people like this access to firearms, let alone prevent them from entering a job in security.

They fucking caught this guy interacting with an enemy of the United States, but let it slide while fostering general animosity toward a demographic for propaganda purposes.

Our government is a Kafkaesque parody of itself.

The twin towers were full of gays, apparently
The Boston Marathon was a pride parade in disguise

like i say, Holla Forums is no better than Holla Forums

why'd you guys split up again? lol

All I'm gonna say is that the mudslimes have really fucked up on a deeply spiritual level, this time.

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And I don't care if it's ISIS, the Illuminati, muh patriarchy, the US, Saudis, Jews, anyone. Those responsible shall know how far the rabbit hole of suffering goes.

idk fam, I hate gays so I don't mind a religion revolving around killing anyone but them

Might convert tbh.

I mean "killing anyone but those who believe in the religion and follow its rules"

The way I phrased it originally sounds weird, idk

Also, more than the pussy christcucks are doing.

Holla Forums hates Muslim fundmenalists/Isis just because they are brown. Their ideology is essentially the same. Both are beta losers obsessed over sex and reproduction,both are obsessed on cucking, and both are essentially fascists that want excuses to kill people.

Two usefull idiots on two different sides of the same coin.

how do you justify your existence on this board if you can't even see homosexuals as your comrades? Whatever did they do to perpetuate class struggle, friendo?

When did I say I was Holla Forums? Are you retarded?

I don't hate brown people, but fags can burn in hell. And Muslims aren't actually cucks like most of the religious in the West. I value people who stick to their values, unlike Holla Forums and Holla Forums.

What are you talking about? I hate gays cause they're gay, nothing more than that.

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homophobes who hate gays are usually closet cases, look into that.

It's a figure of speech. I knew Holla Forums had the same iq levels as Holla Forums but I didn't perceive you as this retarded. Color me surprised-but-don't-know-why-i-was.

ISIS recruits are total, uh, "cucks", by your lexicon. Nihilistic, angry young men with sociopathic urges and a chance to be world famous.

Fag here, I actually disagree with this. People who consciously hate homosexuality are usually just very easily offended and lack the discipline to not think about things that bother them. Hence the false comparisons to pedophilia.

You hate a group of people for no apparent reason and you accuse me of retardation? You claim to respect people who stick to their values, yet you haven't shown me the tiniest shred of evidence that you have any values of your own? Are you a troll or just unimaginably thick?

Muslim detected

You don't want to be a part of them, not with how badly they fucked up. I'm just gonna say some dumb /x/ tier shit and say that they just pissed off an ancient injun spirit. They're fucked, whoever they may be.

I'm fine with pedophilia though, more reason to be a muslim.


I gave you a reason. They're gay. My value is that they're gay and I hate them. Sounds like you're the dense one tbh fam.


I am now yeah.

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So you respect people who stick to their values, even if their values are based upon nothing except a retarded gut feeling? When somebody says "I hate white men because I just do" and proves it by picking a fight with every white man they encounter, you respect that?

And you want me to hold you for anything more than a troll or a child?

sounds like somebody needs a basic lesson in ethics

Yes.

It's the same reason why people don't like Clinton. She's a pussyfooter. Nobody likes a pussyfooter. It's why Holla Forums and Holla Forums are the same too. Just pussyfooters.

American here.

This will definitely get Trump more voters.

As time goes one, there will be more and more Islamic attacks, which means more and more votes for Trump.

Even a lot of other lefties I know are pledging to vote Trump, after seeing all these coordinate Islamic attacks.

"Cucks"

Speaking of, is that why you're salty? That you can't get your leftist revolution going, but more and more people convert to Islam each day? And even 1 percent of the 1.5 billion or so muslims in the world is still 16 million?

I mean 15 million, of course.

Thought experiment time!

Imagine, if you will, a man who has a deep-seated hatred for mankind. If you were to ask him why, he wouldn't give a clear answer, for one because he simply doesn't know, and secondly because he's too busy trying to murder you to give an answer. That'show much he hates mankind. Now, this guy won't sit around moping about how terrible human beings are, he decides to do something about it. Fully self-determined, he enters a career in politics in his own country, knowing that the president of the country just so happens to have a red emergency button that unleashes a nuclear bomb upon the world every time it is pressed. Slowly he climbs up the ladder, gaining everybody's trust and respect, and eventually he's in a position where he runs for president and wins it. In all his self-determination, he's now worked himself into a position where he can press the button as many times as he wants to, and so he does, destroying the entire earth, and all of mankind.

This is a man who, according to you, stuck to his values. Is he respectable?

no, they aren't.

Yes, cause he achieved what he wanted to set out to do. Unlike you guys.

Islam will dominate the world.

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They don't have a reason to lie about it.

At least you freed the workers am i right

The only reason you're better than liberals is because you're at least honest about wanting to effectively nuke us back into the stone age

ISIS is the US government's creation to begin with, and a useful one for maintaining the status quo overseas. Eventually it'll probably fund them to fight some "lesser evil" like it's doing with al-Qaeda; it condones the persecution of well-meaning groups opposing the jihadis while supporting "moderate" rebels in Egypt that are no better than them.

Of course idiot liberals will capitulate because they're cowards.

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Islam will fall, actually.

Heh, all you got? While I birthed beautiful muslim sons with your daughters? Fine by me. Never change, people like here and on Holla Forums just make it easier for us.


How so? You idiots in the West are too busy being retarded to stop us.

hownew.ru

i. dont. give. a. shit.

Listen you wannabe goatfucking pedo, I'll say again: You fucked with Coyote, you're fucked, end of story.

You do realize they been around for a pretty long time? They didn't just POP OUT OF NOWHERE, they been gaining power for over the years and they finally got to a point where they became a real threat.

This guy is obviously a troll. Please go home checkers.

He's not wrong though.

Zimmerman?

He is not wrong for pushing a stereotype to it's limits. Basic Holla Forums rhetoric, get people who are sexually hyped into a right wing hate group.

Samefagging intensifies

Jesus christ, you write like CWC when he puts JERKS or MALES in all caps and blames his problems on them.

Looser gun laws would decrease deaths from mass shootings like these, however general murders are higher in areas with looser gun laws. This is due to drunk retards making bad decisions and having a dangerous tool to act on those decisions.
Guns are also an essential tool for sudden political change as well, and I think this outweighs the increased crime.

It is increasingly funny to me that you guys are don't see the similarities between you and your boogeyman, as Holla Forums does not see the similarities to the people they hate.

You're all full of retards and you keep proving me right, basically. Which is typical of the West.


The world does not work the way you or anyone else here thinks it does. And your sons and daughters and their sons and daughters shall bow down to God as my fathers have before me.

er, Allah. I forget you Westerners are stupid.

theintercept.com/2016/06/12/before-nightclub-shooting-fbi-pursued-questionable-florida-terror-suspects/

…and I forgot to actually quote the article. Great.

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oh fucking kek

dude you just blew it

How so? What do you think "Allah" means? You Westerners like to separate your gods, I forget. To us "Allah" is "God".

So even with racial profiling, mental illness records, violent streaks, monitoring gun access, possible links to other known terrorists etc. they still screwed up?

Everyone knows that

Then how did I blow it? By forgetting the translation?

STOP FUCKING REPLYING TO HIM YOU RETARD

You can't make me go away. You Westerners value your free speech too much, despite calling each other that thing. Hugger Boxes?

Islamic fetishists man.

Hug Boxes. That's what it was. That's funny.

Who knew this image would come in handy at some point?

Out of 300 people noone had a gun?
In fucking Iowa gaybars almost half of people open carry.

ok

Isn't genocidal fantasies a Holla Forums thing also?

uh-oh

If the image were reversed for Holla Forums the thought bubble would probably read something like "It's my own fault; I didn't integrate into western society/wasn't white enough."

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I take that back…it'd be wasn't Atlantean enough.

Jesus fuck libshits are like low-functioning autists

Why is the media repeating this meme? What about Blair Mountain?

You know why.

They only came to power because of US foreign interference creating a power vacuum in Iraq. And even before them, al-Qaeda was wholly a US creation: see the war of Afghanistan.

I really don't get why liberals are so reluctant to blame an Islamic group so extreme that even other Islamic terrorists are afraid of them.

The shooter was obviously very highly trained. His employment by G4S also stinks to high heaven. Look into G4S' connection with 9/11. And no, I'm not a tinfoil fag.

this has to be a false flag. It just has to be.
I hope

Damn it.

is the greatest joke in american history

To be fair, it was originally supposed to lead up to destroying Iran and restoring US dominance in the middle east.

It's so beautiful comrade.

i never really understood the kurdish cause. it seems more like you want an ethnic state like israel where one has never existed and you've never really been kicked out of your homes like palestinians.

of course all marxist kurds are comrads and have full support.

Not that America is so much more enlightened than Saudia Arabia and elsewhere, we still think that money is still a real thing. And last I checked people still think the Earth is only 4,000 years old around here. Maybe it could be like a line from The Sermon on the Mount "First take care of the hinderance in your eye, then take care of the hinderance in your brother's eye"

rojava is advocating democratic confederalism. meaning they aren't building an ethnic state, just independence. the main reason they have a separatist streak is that the various govt.s that occupy their land all brutally suppress their culture.

in any case, all of the sykes-picot borders are a joke.

oh leftypol you sure do crack me up some times

It's not a state, and when it comes to allowing people to live in Rojava they don't discriminate based on ethnicity. It's a multiethnic region anyway so it would be counterproductive.


What?

what? is crony capitalism a wordfilter now?

Could not care less about Amerifats tbh

It's like they're harvesting our personal data for some reason other than civilian safety.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

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This is why the left must be removed along with kebab.

The only thing you will be removing is cumstains from your keyboard from all the hentai you have masturbated to.

I'd just settle for the left, since freedom of religion has never included political views.

i love you yui

I'm not him and I actually despise anime.

They should rename the club to "No Pulse"

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Does this shooter, along with all the other mass shooters found in Western society, count as a Muslim, an America, an immigrant, a religious person, all four?

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Remember back in the early 2000s, when we first started joking about Christards lumping together Muslims with "them librul commies" as a nebulous united force of anti-Americans, and we thought it was hilarious because the ragheads are a mirror image doppleganger for our own redneck fundies that the left has always despised?

What's your problem with suicide, you fucking asshole?

I find it amusing that some liberals have been trying to blame video games because criticising the homophobia of "radical islam" is in their eyes islamaphobic.

These liberals never cease to surprise me.

are you completely retarded?

I do remember, only vaguely. Back then more sensible people probably weren't kidding

ISIS said they would attack Florida three days ago. This guy called the cops, said he was loyal to ISIS, then walked into the club, shouted ALLAUH ACKBAR and started killing people.

Gee I dummo guise I think it might have been islam again.

dont worry, we'll remove the kebabs right after we've removed all cuckservative right wing scums

The way you abolish religion is to have official state religion and make people sick of it through mandatory education. Look at Europe where this is the case vs. the US where they have separation of church and state.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to imply here, but if you think the influence of Christianity somehow vanished in the direct aftermath of the French Revolution then you are simply wrong.

Worth it tbh.

I wish this tweet were legit.

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No, I'm saying that it waned much faster in countries with state religions (most of Europe) than it has in the US where religion has had free reign to explore different denominations and adapt to be whatever works to keep people hooked.

I love it how this board is just a tsundere hug box.

Dude the name of the board is Holla Forums

That is until everyone forgets this in a couple weeks. In order for any terrorist attack to have lasting affect it needs to be big, flashy and scary. 9/11 was fucking perfect, because although in the grand scheme of things it wasn't really that bad (>3000 deaths and only a couple dozen buildings), it LOOKED scary. This shit where some guy goes into a dark nightclub and starts popping people off isn't something you can put on a poster with a catchy slogan. If ISIS or any other muslim fuckwit wants to actually go down in the history books and sway public opinion they gotta start thinking big again.

You are gonna feel real silly when you realize what continent more than half the world's Muslims live on.
(protip: it's Asia)

Good. Degeneracy is one of the bourgeois's most powerful tools for controlling the Proletariat

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good job you just refuted my point!

this tbh. Who honestly remembers Paris and Belgium?

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you don't have anything to support your point in the first place

Don't worry about it just buy your gay pride flag and gay pride branded products! watch some tolerant gay movies while your at it, Whats that you have aids and cant overthrow the ruling class? oh well

this tbh, it doesn't seem that big of a deal. Nobody is even freaking out about.
It's not even as bad as the Paris attacks and those weren't even in the fucking US

Nobody cares about shootings anymore, if you don't use bombs its not scary

get back to Holla Forums kid

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SPOILER ALERT: he was a nutcase
theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/jun/13/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-pulse-nightclub-live

kek

A Hispanic gay club no less. La Raza cancelled a Hispanic and Muslim solidarity initiative over this shit.

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seriously? wow, what a shitty organization. this would be the specific time that such a meeting is MOST needed.

what is the different between al qaida and hezbollah ?
They are friends right ?

Al-Qaeda are Sunnis, Hezbollah are Shia.
They fucking hate each other m8.

Nah La Raza is a supremacist organization and according to them they are taking over a large part of the US. They call it Aztlan or something. Anyway this was just about their spat with Trump, he had been badmouthing them and he had been badmouthing Muslims so it was about coordinating their attacks on him. The US has become incredibly sectarian in recent years.

Hezbollah are Lebanese Shia and Orthodox Christians. It not an Islamic organization.

They may have some Orthodox Christian allies and/or elements, but at its core the Hezbollah unmistakably is a religious, sectarian militia.

Is that why aside from partially "civilized" nations (those where we're currently bringing "progress" to via sweatshops) the Western world is where there is the highest depression and suicide rates?
Your argument that more stuff = more happiness is AnCap tier.
Call me PoMo (I consider myself Evolian), but I would much rather have been born in some backwater nation with a tradition and a religion to ease my thoughts and a future stable family to rely on and be happy with than be masturbating to anime and considering killing myself like I am now.

youtube.com/watch?v=JvcEP0EjqIc (Mes Aïeux - Dégénérations)

You don't have to institute consumer culture and irreligion to get a society to be democratic and "Enlightened", get your priorities straight.


I'm supposed to be the fucking tankie.

wow

what hole do you live in?

I don't know how you guys defend this.

Probably because you didn't even read the thread and just assumed we're Tumblr

See
He was out of his gourd and didn't even know the difference between different Islamic groups that really fucking despise each other, possibly moreso than they despise the secular world. He was as alienated from them as a typical American, but felt like he just "belonged" there.

That's what radicalism means to these Westernized Muslims, an outlet for extreme aggression and mental instability that makes them feel welcome, like their violent thoughts and feelings are correct and reasonable. It's their Stormfront. What made this case exceptional was not that he was Muslim but that he was a security expert, which unfortunately meant he knew how to get a high score.

the feelings aren't as much generated by western imperialism as justified by western imperialism
In my mind, it's generated just as a response to liberal values ( gay rights, women's rights, secularism) and then justified because "western imperialists kill muslims" which is true but just a justification when the real reason is alienation and violent outlash against those percieved to be evil

And at least, overseas, western imperialism gives them more reason to violently hate the west. It also create voids in government for terrorist groups to fester. There are also lots of people, lots of kids and teens, who now bear the scars of mental illness or loss of their family and think joining a terrorist group is the solution. They get to fight back, release their aggression, feel like they belong to something, etc..

Who would have ever thought war will fuck people up and create an environment vulnerable to take-over?

Well looks like America just passed Australia but still has not beat Norway.
spreekillers.ch/?o=vic

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Am I ever glad I noticed this.

Why do you bump cancer, then?