Are there any mature cartoons? Not adult swim or hentai kind of mature...

Mature person or not I just can't seem to enjoy casual cartoons.

I meant in terms of colouring looking, and this is a more accurate term, grainy,

You're talking about movies in which people mostly sit around and talk about life? I don't know if I can help you in that regard, but there are certainly adult animations that aren't all about tits and action.

I guess Waking Life, though it's kind of pretentious hipster bullshit.

Captain N is basically a better, more thoughtful version of The Matrix and done about 10 years earlier

...

...

...

I hope you're joking.

I suppose Archer is mature animation, but it's really just crude jokes and violence which is never a bad thing.

How has no one mentioned Moral Orel?

Not only is it mature but it's one of the best cartoons to ever air.

It's about existentialism.
It's very clear what it is, it's not trying to be pretentious.

Sorry for clarifying, I'm clearly a pretentious hipster so nothing I say means anything.

user i wouldn't call it a cartoon.

Oh definitely. But they're still fun to watch for other reasons. For example, Cowboy Bebop is fun because of the setting, stories, and characters, even if existentialism is a large part of it.

wew

Why aren't there that many serious cartoons for adults made in America?

A. you can't get funding
B. you can't get distribution.

I'll be honest, and say I haven't seen the whole movie. But it all seems like very entry level philosophy. The stuff that a teenager might parade around if they want people to think they are deep.

Oh is that the story were it's after a nuclear war and a robot house does it's tasks even when there's no people

Bizarre ?
this it's basically the story of Frankenstein in Russian language with really got pastels (if I am not mistaking)

Grave of the Fireflies
Perfect Blue
Tokyo Godfathers
Now and Then, Here and There
Paprika
Plenty of Studio Ghibli's earlier in-house films

The list goes on and on of animated features from Japan that contain mature themes, sober execution, and artistic excellence.

European features can sometimes enter the same ballpark but often fall short of the mark by your own metrics (e.g. Overly heavy on surrealism, absurd premise or character dialogue, stupid or nonexistent narrative, leaning on spectacle over substance), and absolutely nothing that ever came out of America was anything other than Lowest Common Denominator schlock.

Anime is the epitome of LCD trash. Don't try to put it in the same category as true cinema.

The fact that you can't name any counter-examples of American/European animatied productions that are of higher quality than the Japanese examples I gave tells me all I need to know.

LCD?

The levels of pretentiousness here are incredible.

Never mind

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animated_feature_films_of_the_1960s
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animated_feature_films_of_the_1950s
imdb.com/list/ls003591214/
You can find the American ones; I won't bother.

Arrogant.

Logical fallacy.

Don't forget Bluth. Example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_of_NIMH

You faggots need to learn more and consume less holy shit.
e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga

Huh?

I don't think you can find anything like what Tarkovsky made in this medium. Finding animated works without symbolism or base emotional manipulations is nearly impossible. Much less the spiritual aspects.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynastic_cycle

The fuck is happening here?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Spengler

There is the moral of all human tales;

'Tis but the same rehearsal of the past.
First freedom and then Glory – when that fails,
Wealth, vice, corruption – barbarism at last.
And History, with all her volumes vast,
Hath but one page….
anonm.gr/up/2bf5.jpg

Dubs of truth.

Yeah I love Genndy Tarkovsky, people will tell you Samurai Jack was the best thing he ever did but I honestly prefer Clone Wars. Love the long takes and religious themes. Amazing he was able to produce such works while living in the Soviet Union.

...

Also he's a kike, and I'm pretty sure his wife is too.

How was Hotel Transylvania anyway?
SU collapsed in the early 1990s….

I liked it. Nowhere as good as Tarkovsky though. I dislike the obviously despaired plot, glorified scenery, generic cinematography, and not so subtle supernatural sequences. Tark would never make anything like that. It's a quite good anime regardless, just not very visionary.

No, just no. They're ugly, horrendous cartoons. Kon is the japanese jodorowsky.

They're more fantasy than anything. Not very "mature" if you know what I mean.

Yeah, these are what differ pretentious art films from mature art films. However, I still don't get how you can praise the japanese jodorowsky while hating these features.

These are good things. I'd take the simplest but well written narrative ever over convoluted narrative. Imagery is more important than plot, directors should focus on the spectacle more than plot. I hate the Kubrick approach of creating spectacle though, which most anime directors seem to follow. Kubrick feels artificial.

Maybe I was wrong to expect any cartoons to deliver any of the aesthetics of cinema. Motion photography and motion painting are two entirely different things. This is the thing that I just realized. Artificiality is, not just inevitable in cartoons, but is also the whole point of the medium. It's a medium designated for entertainment.

Hotel Transylvania was a pretty nice movie.

Bit cheesy at times, but it has a sweet story. Also unlike most modern kid's movies, it doesn't rely on a ton of pop culture references for humor. If you're wanting a comfy family movie to watch then it is really worthwhile. There's a reason it got a sequel.

*that he bothered to work on

Elaborate please.

Would the Animatrix count? I tend to like anthologies for some reason.

You are anti-intellectual and anti-art.

Animation's never been taken seriously in America, least of all television animation. It's thought of as just "cartoons," not something akin to cinema.

It is in the same category as "true cinema."

"Lowest common denominator" has turned into just another meme that doesn't mean anything.

They have nothing to do with cartoons.

Fantasy and "maturity" are not mutually exclusive. And for someone who rides the dick of Tarkovsky you seem not familiar with his filmography.

There is nothing wrong with anti-intellectualism, because it comes at a time when the so-called "intellectuals" aren't.
He didn't say they were mutually exclusive; "if you know what I mean".

Are you Val? You remind me greatly of him.

I am not talking about being anti-intellectual in response to the intellectuals of the current day, I am talking about just being plain anti-intellectual.

"If you know what I mean" is so vague that it can be completely disregarded.

I don't know who that is and have no interest in your tripfag circle-jerking.

You have no evidence

What?

He's a namefag pedophile. Stop making assumptions, idiot.
>>>/cow/227015
But you shouldn't, lest you make mistakes.
What do you think real intellectualism is, then?

I'd say that to plenty of people here. Do you mean his part about animations not being seen as anything of importance in America or what?

Whatever. I don't care if he's a namefag or tripfag. Makes no difference.

I'm not going jump down a rabbit hole of solipsism with you.

The relevant issue here is rejecting all anime as being "shallow" and "pretending to be deep" just because he can't put up with anything intellectual. Instead of admitting he's anti-intellectual he spins it as being the fault of anime.

Excuse me, I realize I didn't word the reply carefully. Anyhow, please refrain from making assumptions (even in passing) such as this:
Just because I mention someone doesn't mean I'm the only one who knows. I'm sorry, but your comment seriously pissed me off for some reason.

Are you suggesting that solipsism is intellectual? Surely you jest?
One can be anti-intellectual and understand intellectual pieces.
Since I have not watched much anime, can you point to some that are? And, I would not consider 20th century existentialism anywhere close to being "intellectual".

I don't care, so fuck off with this shit already.

I suggested no such thing.

He doesn't, because he is anti-intellectual.

There's no reason for anyone to answer questions like this.

Ayy, do you frequent Holla Forums, or perhaps Holla Forums? Did you at one point frequent either of these? Jus' curious.

Not interested your namefag/tripfag/redditor/social media shit. Go bother someone else.

I'm just curious is all. Are you an atheist?

*Also, not if you thought I was.

Kubrick focused on creating spectacular spectacles instead of captivating ones, and passed them as "high art", while in fact they're nothing more than entertainment. Yes, they are riveting, but at the same time they feel too cold and fake to be "high art". He's like forcing the audience to be dumbfounded by amazement. Mature art should be a lot more humble and natural, the audience intuition and belief shouldn't be dictated by the director. It's a kind of artistic humility. Don't force them a suspension of disbelief, let them take their values from nature.

Only a pretentious person would say that art is intellectual. Not saying that art is stupid, but the beauty of art comes from conviction, not mental masturbation.

But they're cartoons?

Fantasy in a way can be seen as a form of escapism from reality. What I mean by maturity here is an acceptance of reality.

I don't think Tarkovsky has ever created a fantasy film, maybe with the exception of Solaris due to strict rules enforced by Stanislaw Lem. Everything weird happening in Stalker, for example, is subtle and questionable. Tark, late in his life, even said that The Room does not exist.

Adam Wallace is loose.

Only someone as intellectually dishonest as you would conflate the two separate statements I was responding to.

They're not. Do you even know anything about Satoshi Kon beyond the fact that he made animation?

youtube.com/watch?v=oz49vQwSoTE

So you're not familiar with Ghibli either. That's great.

There's nothing wrong with escapism anyway.

In other words fantasy is bad except when it's something you like, but then it's not fantasy anymore because reasons.

Neither you nor your director are in any position to dictate these things.

they are nip cartoons

Look at the video. It's plainly obvious his movies weren't cartoons.

its plainly obvious that they are cartoons from Japan. the quality of the cartoons doesn't change the fact that they are cartoons.

Please leave.

Nothing wrong with cartoons. Tom and Jerry had more hard work and expertise put into it than just about any piece of "modern art".

Oh boy. Here we go.

...

These are cartoons:

youtube.com/watch?v=1YjpAQJirI8
youtube.com/watch?v=JnKfVLwAIvA
youtube.com/watch?v=1QXDEoVlkAE

Satoshi Kon's works had nothing to do with cartoons.

I don't usually embed videos because I think links work better. It has nothing to do with an inability to use embeds, as if there was anything difficult about it.

They are very simplistic and childish and extremely limited in scope and presentation. It becomes a problem when people think that's all animation is.

other than the fact that they are cartoons. country of origin or quality are irrelevant to what they are. animated motion pictures are cartoons.

Can you go back to /a/ or something please?

I was not arguing that Satoshi Kon's movies are not cartoons because they are Japanese and high quality. Cartoons can be made in any country and their level of quality can vary. Satoshi Kon's movies just aren't cartoons. There's no reason why they would be.

I didn't start this thread or bring up anime.

But you claim anime is better than ANY of our cartoons?
>>>/freech/

they are. the reason is that they are drawn and not live action. that is the definition of a cartoon. no way around this fact.

Anime is better, yes.

I've stated that "beauty of art comes from conviction, not mental masturbation." Understanding art requires intuition and conviction, not some kind of intellectual analysis. You don't need to know what the trees are made of in order to understand their beauty.

Satoshi Kon's cartoons show a lot of exaggerations and absurd imagery, yes they're cartoons.

Yes there's nothing wrong, but I am here to ask for a cartoon without escapism.

I don't like Solaris' plot.

The reasons are they are reasonable anomalies you might find in real life.

Mature art, not all of art, since everyone has their own idea of art. It's something that reflects humbleness and sincere service, like maturity in a person.

I think this is too.

Time to scurry back to /a/ with your delusions of grandeur.

Animes don't know what they want to be. At least cartoons know their place.

Being drawn doesn't make something a cartoon any more than being shot on a video camera makes something cinema. Cartoons and anime are fundamentally different approaches to animation, they are not the same thing. There's no way for you to argue that a Donald Duck short is the same thing as Perfect Blue.

What does this have to do with what I said?

They are completely different from cartoons.

So Stalker is now based on real life. Ok. Sure.

I don't have any delusions of grandeur.

Imagine if Japanese cinema consisted of almost nothing but musicals and slapstick comedies for children made in the style of early silent film. Would you consider Japanese cinema on par with or superior to American cinema? Of course you wouldn't. So why would American cartoons be on par with or superior to anime?

Anime is a lot of things, just like live action cinema.

A cinema is a building you go to to watch a film.

Words can have more than one meaning.

It does. That is what cartoons are. Drawn motion pictures.

As I just said:
I've already posted videos showing what cartoons are like and how completely different they are from Kon's works.

As I just said:
They are cartoons because they are animated motion pictures. That is what cartoons are. The techniques used do not change what they fundamentally are. Nor do your pretensions of superiority.

So by this reasoning anything shot on a video camera must be cinema.

Techniques are a big part of what makes cartoons and anime different.

I am not pretending anything.

Anything shot on a camera is a film (sometimes called a movie). A cinema is a building.

Once again: words can have multiple meanings. If this is really the argument you're going with, it's time to stop posting.

Americans need to learn how to speak, tbh.

If it is meant to tell a story then yes. Techniques do not change the fundamental reality of what they are. You most certainly are otherwise you would not be so strident in arguing that cartoons are not cartoons when anime is involved.

He's trolling
Also,
FUCK OFF VAL HOLY SHIT

It's not a theatre either. That's where you go to see a play.

Read them all again from the beginning. I'm a kind of tired.

Cartoons and caricatures use a lot of exaggerations, and so does Kon's anime.

I said that there's a realistic chance that the occurrences of Stalker might happen in real life. It doesn't defy physics or introduce new ones. Regarding whether it is based on real life, Stalker's daughter is based on real person, a female soviet psychokinetician that was controversial back in the 70's.

Yeah, that's why it doesn't know what the medium is best for. Caricatures.

I should stop replying then.

I didn't say it's meant to tell a story. I said anything shot on video camera.

They do. Cartoons use a narrow range of techniques derived in part from stage entertainment, like the way they're shot as if they took place on stage. Anime uses cinematic techiques–pretty much any technique you can think of. Their animation styles are very different too.

Cartoons and anime are completely different things.

What are you two talking about?

There are different kinds of exaggerations, and exaggeration is not the only thing that makes cartoons what they are.

Is this how far you're going to go in your attempt to argue that fantasy is bad except when you like it which means Stalker can't be fantasy? Wouldn't it be easier to concede that fantasy is not inherently bad?

The characters of Drifters are based on real people too.

Animation is not intended for caricatures just because that's how American animators chose to utilize the medium in the early 20th century. Animation can be used for a lot of things including realism.

I was summoned?

...

Hey, you there. Have I told you about my opinions? I'll have you know I have very strong opinions.
Don't talk to me about video games mate, unless you want to hear some biting opinions. Playstation?
More like the Gaystation, to be honest. Yeah, I said it. I'll say it right to your face.
Don't talk to me about that film you like. That popular one that just came out. I don't care how popular it is
I'll tell you right to your face that I thought it was at best three stars, out of ten, at best.
"oh but it made so much money". Doesn't phase me son. I thought it was bloody rubbish.
Don't talk to me about religion, mate. God? He doesn't exist. Haven't you read Richard Dawkins? I mean, I haven't
but I know he's right about God not existing. Old men on clouds? bloody stupid to be honest. Why are you so bloody
stupid? And if he was real (which he isn't), he'd be a dick. I'd tell him right to his face what a dick he is for
letting Africans starve. I'd go right up to him on his big purple chair, and tell him right to his beard, that
he's a right shit for inventing cancer. I don't care. I don't even want to go to heaven. Hell is where all the cool
opinionated people go, to be honest. And politics? Did you see that guy? That guy in the suit? Wow. What a shit he is.
Yeah, I'll say it. Politicians are bloody shit to be honest. They should let me run the world. Then I could outlaw
the Gaystation and make everyone get some taste, and also I'd let the gays marry because I'm down with the struggles
of oppressed peoples. Unless they like Gaystation or rubbish bands, like that one you like.

...

What did I say that was retarded?

wew. I recognize this anime sperg from Holla Forums.

Doesn't that board have a massive tumor?

*as in, it's shit?

*as in, everyone's retarded? :^)

It's 4chan Holla Forums but with zero moderation.

And how is 4chan's Holla Forums board?

That's it's charm.

Shitposting and spam. Holla Forums's doesn't have the pedospammer though.

...

What do you mean "here we go"? It's not like he's going to show up here. He's got his hands full with spending every waking hour spamming 4chan and evading bans.

How does he evade so much when halfcuck range bans all the time and allows no vpn/tor usage?

"Here we go", as in "here we go with the discussion of this particular user"

Anime is cartoons tbh

This.
They're just from Japan

We just established that they're different things.

Nah. They are cartoons weeb.

They aren't and I've explained why.

I'm not a weeb for stating facts.

Do we count Korean manwha, and whatever they call comics in Hong Kong as "manga", and not allow discussion of them?
It just seems as arbitrary as disallowing French comics or animation, or Spanish, or whatever.
If it's a drop in quality of discussion that's the issue, the average piece of moeshit is still better that the fucking SJW Calarts noodlearm cud getting burped up for us these days, especially now it's infected superhero comics and everything's being drawn like fucking Adventure Time and written like some trannie's blog.

You say that like "moeshit" is supposed to have, by anime standards, poor production values.

Yes they fucking are. Manwha, manga, are both comics, but when people say "comics", they refer to Western comics.
It's like how many so-called "Christians" I know will say there's a difference between being "Christian" and "Catholic", when Catholicism is a part of Christianity and what they probably mean by "Christian" is "Protestant.
"Anime" comes from the Frog word for animation. Check m8 weebs

No they aren't.

It comes from "animation." Even if it was derived from French, what difference would that make?

Wew.

I knew someone would bump this thread at the last minute to prevent it from dying, because that's what you do on imageboards right? You have to save the threads before they disappear, even if they've been inactive for a week.

is that an asshole

I think that's a missing penis or something.

What's the stick thing sticking out?