Times of Israel: Is Donald Trump’s proposal to keep out anti-Semites practical — or ethical?

Times of Israel: Is Donald Trump’s proposal to keep out anti-Semites practical — or ethical?

US Jews once pushed for ideological tests to keep out Nazis and anti-Semites, but now worry such tests could be cover for discrimination

WASHINGTON (JTA) — How extreme does vetting need to be to keep anti-Semites from entering the United States, and is Donald Trump’s plan worth the effort?

The Republican nominee’s proposal to apply an ideological test to potential immigrants is based on precedent: The United States in the last century instituted a broad ban on communists and their sympathizers, and Jewish groups after World War II sought to extend similar strictures to those who sympathized with Nazis.

Nonetheless, Jewish civil rights and immigration groups today have questions about the viability of Trump’s proposal and whether it is ethical to institute an ideological litmus test on arrivals from countries with vastly different values and education systems.

Trump in his Aug. 15 speech noted the precedent.

“In the Cold War, we had an ideological screening test,” he said. “The time is overdue to develop a new screening test for the threats we face today. I call it extreme vetting. I call it extreme, extreme vetting.”

Among those excluded, Trump said, would be anti-Semites.

“As we have seen in France, foreign populations have brought their anti-Semitic attitudes with them,” he said.

Trump also would extend his ban to those who are intolerant of other minorities, including the LGBTQ community, and to those who would seek to impose Islamic religious law on the United States.

The Trump campaign did not reply to a JTA request for elaboration on how Trump’s proposal would practically work.

Melanie Nezer, the vice president of policy for HIAS, the Jewish group leading advocacy for refugees, said current practice excludes immigrants who have actively participated in persecution, including having belonged to a terrorist group. Seeking to root out anti-Semitic attitudes would be harder to define, she said.

“I don’t know what you’re testing for,” Nezer said. “How do you determine if someone is anti-Semitic? What is in someone’s head? Ideas aren’t fixed.”

The proposal’s vagueness is troubling, said Marc Stern, legal counsel for the American Jewish Committee, and could indulge stereotyping if the practice was based on the assumption that natives of some countries would necessarily be bigoted.

“While we appreciate the impulse behind the suggestion that anti-Semites be barred from immigrating to the United States, we doubt it is a proposal that would have much practical effect — even if as implemented it does not succumb to dangerous stereotypes about entire groups of people being anti-Semites,” Stern said in an email.

Those asked if they are anti-Semites are likely to lie, said Shoshana Bryen, the senior director of the Jewish Policy Center, a conservative think tank.

“If you say, ‘Do you hate Jews, Shia Muslims, Christians?’ they’ll say no,” she said.

Additionally, Bryen wondered how far the ban is extended.

“If you say, ‘I’m going to keep out the anti-Semites,’ do you keep out anti-Shia people or anti-Sunni people?” she asked. “You can’t go down that pike.”

It’s too much to expect immigrants to arrive with an outlook that is fully compatible with American values, said Abby Levine, the director of the Jewish Social Justice Roundtable, an alliance of groups with an agenda that includes immigration advocacy.

“It’s nonsensical to expect immigrants from very different cultural contexts to arrive preaching gender, racial and religious equality,” Levine said. “New residents can be shaped by their experiences living alongside people who are different from them.”

Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner, the director of the Reform movement’s Religious Action Center, said the real threat of anti-Semitism “requires vigilance” but should not be used as a pretext to discriminate.

“We take issue with efforts to use anti-Semitism as cover for policy proposals that suggest religious tests for immigration, citizenship or public office, as well as those that call into question American values of religious freedom, respect and tolerance,” he said.

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timesofisrael.com/is-donald-trumps-proposal-to-keep-out-anti-semites-practical-or-ethical/
archive.is/6l84N
smoloko.com/?p=9991
theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/refugees/419976/
ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4299673,00.html
gatestoneinstitute.org/8700/christian-conferences-israel
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Ken Jacobson, the Anti-Defamation League’s deputy national director, said it made more sense to improve education for tolerance for all Americans as a means of combating bigotry.

“I’m very big on something old fashioned called civic education,” he said. “I think Americans need more of that when it comes to democracy.”

Bryen said it was best to let immigrants learn tolerance through the give and take of living in a diverse culture rather than through government-imposed programs.

“One of the ways [intolerance] goes away is people talk to each other in the public sphere,” she said.

According to research provided to JTA by The David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, laws passed in the 1950s were broader when it came to weeding out communists, extending to those who would “teach or advocate” subversive views and who were likely to engage in activities “prejudicial to the public interest or public safety.”

The vague language was removed in the 1990 Immigration Act, which restricts bans to members or affiliates of the Communist Party unless they can show they were forced into membership; members of the Nazi Party in Germany; membership or affiliation with terrorist groups, or participation in persecution and genocide.

The broader bans in place before 1990 allowed immigration officials to dig deeper into an applicant’s past, extending a ban if there was even a questionable tie to communist activities. Jewish groups following World War II sought unsuccessfully to extend the broader bans on communist sympathizers to Nazi sympathizers, fearing – as it turned out, with some vindication — that the influx of non-Jewish refugees from war-torn Europe would include anti-Semites.

Immigration officials administering an ideological test today would have more sophisticated means at their disposal, including access to the vast troves of information on social media. Additionally, an immigrant visa could be revoked if the applicant is found after the fact to have lied – a mechanism that has proven useful in deporting former Nazis.

Rafael Medoff, the director of the Wyman Institute, said the reintroduction of an ideological test should not be counted out, given the postwar experience of American Jewish groups.

“After World War II, the Anti-Defamation League and American Jewish Congress tried but failed to block legislation to admit East Europeans whom they suspected of being anti-Semitic and fascist-leaning,” he said. “Although it would be difficult today to screen out anti-Semites from among potential immigrants, there is merit in the principle that bigotry is un-American and therefore should be grounds for exclusion.”

Jacobson of the ADL warned that dipping into what potential immigrants have said in informal settings like social media is “touchy,” especially when applied to refugees who may be facing imminent danger.

“When one talks of the values immigrants bring in, we can’t bar people, especially if they’re refugees who may be in danger,” he said.

timesofisrael.com/is-donald-trumps-proposal-to-keep-out-anti-semites-practical-or-ethical/
archive.is/6l84N

He's pitting the Jews against each other. If all Jews do what's in the interest of Jews then what's a better way to cause internal tensions than get to disagree on what's best for Jews?

Also banning anti-semites will de facto ban pretty much all Muslim immigration. And it doesn't even matter because we need to open the eyes of Americans rather than immigrants.

It's a fantastic move.

OY VEY, THEN (((WE))) WOULD BE BANNED. IT'D BE ANOTHER SHOAH.

They aren't. I used to be a total libshit and the level of self delusion I had to maintain to believe in egalitarianism and the whites-as-historical-villan narrative was simply unsustainable.

The one place I still agree with the former Left is on globalism and international finance. But the Left doesn't care about that anymore. They're all globalists for Hillary. And those are now issues that the Alt-Right and Trumpism correctly addresses. So I have no more reservations.

whoops. wrong thread. how the fuck did that happen.

Looks like I was 100% correct that this was part of Trumps plan to [email protected]/* */ the Kikes.

And it's working perfectly.

I really wonder what makes them so desperate against Trump to drop spaghettis like this.

Trump seems genuinely ok with them, just not a goy slave.

No he's not, you fucknut.

He's pro-Jew and anti-SJW. You can be both at once.

When jews complain about anti-semitism, they really mean disobedient goyim.

God Emperor Trump is limiting their ability to kevetch about the alt-right because he'll use any complaints of antisemitism to bolster his immigration policy.

Your moves, kikes. Let's see you pilpul your way out of this one.

(((these people))) never try to appease them: JUST DEPORT THEM!

...

That's the point, Pilpul is totally illogical it is not even close to sophistry, because the physical laws change from propositions to propositions inside the same sentence.

Pope Gregory IX: “Ungrateful for favours and forgetful of benefits, the Jews return insult for kindness and impious contempt for goodness.” (Epistle to the Hierarchy of Germany)


Pope Stephen III: “With great sorrow and mortal anxiety, We have heard that the Jews have in a Christian land the same rights as Christians, that Christian men and women live under the same roof with these traitors and defile their souls day and night with blasphemies.” (Epistle to the Bishop of Norbonne)

Pope Innocent IV: “The wicked perfidy of the Jews – from whose hearts Our Saviour did not remove the veil because of their enormous crimes but caused them justly to continue in their blindness, commit acts of shame which engender astonishment in those who hear, and terror in those who discover it.” (The Wicked Perfidy of the Jews)

smoloko.com/?p=9991

My point was that they've finally run into someone both sufficiently intelligent and sufficiently motivated to outmaneuver them.

Are you new? Jews always argue with one another. It is part of them influencing both sides of a debate.

Yes but in the end though his strategy is perfectly logical and astute they don't respond to logic.

10/10
And they agree on their hate of the Goyim.

Yes, against Muslims.

Many Jews are against Muslim immigration. Example: theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/refugees/419976/

That has nothing to do with Hispanics, or for that matter, the mostly Christian niggers from sub-Saharan Africa.

Who said anything about making kikes respond to logic? It's not their response that matters.

Trump is taking a page out of Singapore for anti-discrimination laws, no religious zealotry of any kind.

...

I can guarantee you that most Jewish organisations want Muhammadans into Western Societies.
They want it burnt into the ground even if it means that some of them will die in the process.


Rewind:
What the heck is Barbara Spectre's motivation (video embedded)

Also :

Islamization of Europe a good thing'
Rabbi Baruch Efrati believes Jews should 'rejoice at the fact that Europe is paying for what it did to us for hundreds of years by losing its identity.' He praises Islam for promoting modesty, respect for God
ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4299673,00.html

It's not a question of "most."

Most Jews voted for Obama even though Netanyahu publicly endorsed Mitt Romney.

It is that they have a presence on both sides of a debate, and they frame those debates in such a way that some issues are not even part of it.

A few people here discuss Jews as if they are a simple ideological monolith, like evangelical Christians or something, but that is not their strategy at all.

Btw, today, in 2016, I would say that you are probably wrong, at least in Europe or in some European countries. You would have been right even 2 years ago though.

This is a fucking master-play.

It so clearly reveals how kikes only care about anti-semitism when it's coming from the far-right (aka whites).

Even though Muslims are highly anti-semitic, it's ok because we need to bring in hordes of foreign people for diversity reasons.

It's like an extreme version of liberal double-think.

It's like a layer cake of genius.

1. 99% of snackbars despise the kikes. This is essentially a total mudslime ban with a sneaky pretext.

2. Anybody arguing against this defacto mudslime ban is instantly anti-semetic. Because what do they want to do, let ANTI-SEMITES INTO THE COUNTRY? wtf lol

He's using jews as an excuse to remove kebab and if you question it then you're literally Hitler.

That guy looks like an older, more decrepit version of le real numbers man.

this

also evangelical christians are not only not a "monolith" but are purely an invention of the jewish media, like most "alt-right," or worse. There are very few Christians who identify as "evangelical," yet they somehow comprise 40% of Christians or something.

Anyway, yeah, kikes are just power-mongers that'll climb up any ladder, and the main (though not only) tying factor is that they always work out of the debate issues which are perceived to be "against the jewish people" – neurotically so. that's why there is always a backlash.

OY

Sure but on the essential issue they are OK this is why most prominent neo-cohen are endorsing directly or indirectly Hillary.
I have read the International Jew multiple times so I am aware of the fact that they are in every parties, there was an image with me playing in a swimming pool with an American football ball , they were laughing an a girl i the middle wanted to have the ball.
The legend said Goy for the girl and the laughing men were named: conservative jew, liberal Jew, Libertarian Jew ad Communist jew.
At the end of the day the illusion of pluralism vanishes as soon as their true interests come into play, there they will act like a monolith group as history as told us time and time again.

They are the dumbest people in the world.

they are even losing the evangelical votes but more so even when they write an article titled: Christian Summer Conferences Offer Israel Blessings and Curses

I see no fucking cursing proofs in it
gatestoneinstitute.org/8700/christian-conferences-israel

These people are lunatics and should be contained in Israel.

Well that is remarkable.

Oy Vey!

...

beautiful

Jew versus jew. The world wins