Question about transgenderism:

So I think most of us agree that gender (i.e. the notions surrounding each biological sex) is largely a spook. But if that's the case, why do transgender people feel the need to have the opposite gender's physique and reproductive organs if they want to act like the opposite gender? Why don't, say, transgender men just dress in skirts but still call themselves men and keep their reproductive organs if gender is a spook? Doesn't transitioning just reinforce traditional notions of gender?

Because there is a cognitive dysfunction at play. At present there is no physiological cure for what's going on in their brains, though occasionally gender dysphoria has been cured through treating a neurological problem that it was rooted in.

They do the whole transgender thing because it's easier to do plastic surgery, mix up pronouns, and cross dress than it is to do brain surgery to fix the cognitive dissonance.

I guess you're right. I wasn't really thinking of it as a psychological disorder.

Women have the eggs, protect the women, protect your offspring. Nothing spooky about that.

I'm talking more about the cult of domesticity and arbitrary things like clothing.

It's only cognitive dissonance in the woman/man gender as socially acknowledged. What people would call trans here exist in other cultures as relatively normal people who just are seen as another legitimate gender of some kind, and there is no dysphoria about physical shit like having a penis or boobs.

There are also the emotional people who have phases growing up of hating their gender role and mistaking that as hating their sex. I have a sister who up to her 20s hated everything feminine because she had always been an extreme tomboy. After she got a job and was forced to have some modicum of normality she chilled out and is now a typical girly woman. She still says she's a boy at heart, but she's not trying to rip her boobs off like back when she was 14. Had she been in the US and had the typical liberal enablers feeding her trans ideas she would have totally transitioned, No doubt in my mind.

tl;dr: transgender/sexual dysphoria is in big part a socially conditioned personal response. If an individual has no conception of how what they feel is normal with their own body, they seem to get stuck on the literal self-image as the root of their problems and get obsessed with becoming a "real" woman/man despite gender being something immaterial to begin with. The big irony is that they and their enablers all fucking know they can never be a "real" woman/man with any amount of transition due to the multiple layers of meaning of the concepts intertwining with not just appearance and biology, but life and social experience. They know they can only be someone pretending to be a woman/man, no matter how much they feel they should have been one.

This is what I was thinking.

There is a difference between sexual dysphoria and preferring one gender role to another. Not all Berdaches, for instance, were gay or thought of themselves as women aside from their social role.

It should be noted that surgeries have become much rarer, and the made up pronouns are used by straight white teenagers that want to be speshul

It's weird but IMO it's not quite close to setting bad precedents, so who cares? If psychiatrists see it as effective, let 'em do their damn jobs.

Clothing isn't (entirely) arbitrary, you retard. Different body shapes lend themselves to different types of clothing. Women tend to be differently shaped to men. Therefore different clothing looks good on them.

Transgenderism (trans - Latin for 'through,' 'beyond,' 'across,') implies that one operates still through notions, unconventional as they may be but nonetheless notions, of gender; that is, their sex does not unambiguously coincide with so-called gendered patterns of behaviour. However statistically average differences between men and women are not under dispute (gendered difference between men/males and women/females would register as qualitatively distinct regardless of whether neuroscience was able to pinpoint the exact area of the brain—of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn), but this dimensionality of gender indicates that these differences are inappropriate for diagnosing gender-typical psychological variables on the basis of sex. Indeed, the brain-sex theory of transsexualism has never been easy to reconcile with clinical reality: Homosexual and nonhomosexual MtF transsexualism are so different clinically that it is almost impossible to imagine that they could have the same etiology. Nevertheless, for a time the Zhou/Kruijver data gave the brain-sex theory a certain superficial plausibility. It is simplistic to say that a female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.
Yes and no. In some sense, a MtF will want to adhere to both biological notions (smooth skin, curvaceous figure, &c) and cultural notions (dresses, heels, &c) of being a "woman," but when asked about what they identify as will even say androgynous, other-gendered, third-gendered, and even trans. However, a lot of "passing" transpeople will just say what they most "pass" for, fearing ideological coercion and physical violence against them; a lot of the time you won't be able to tell who's trans with todays advances in endocrinology among other relevant therapies.

Sage because this isn't politics, really, and a lot of the people ITT commenting about transgenderism aren't transgender (not that you have to be, but it really shows), or learn about it from JPEG artifact laden memes and loaded words.

Body types also vary hugely. Butch women (that aren't Tumblrinas) often look a lot better in men's clothes

Body types vary, but to deny a general tendency for women to look different to men in particular ways (wider hips, narrower shoulders, presence of breasts, overall narrower frame, etc.) is absolutely retarded.

there's really nothing about a guy's physique that prevents him from wearing a skirt or high heels. some clothes are designed specifically for women, like bras and panties (duh), but i didnt mean guys could wear all female clothing.


i was hoping this could be a civil discussion :/

Like I said, clothing isn't """entirely""" arbitrary. Clearly men and women can wear jeans, and the aesthetics of colour are not particularly affected by gender. But men don't look good in high heels or dresses, and memeing Stirner and sociology 101 buzzwords doesn't change that.

Because you're used to seeing only women wear those things. Scottish men have worn kilts for ages, but if a man were to in America it would look strange to us.

A kilt is not a dress and high heels. Learn to read.

When we say gender is a spook we mean that the behaviours and traits associated with gender are socially constructed. Certain people feel more that they identify with certain sets of traits and ways of being that, in this society, are associated with the opposite biological sex. In this society, this creates the deep and very "real" feeling that they should be perceived by others and engage in society as the opposite gender. The best known treatment for this cognitive dissonance (i.e. what makes these people feel happier) is to facilitate them being recognized as the gender that better suits their traits and character. In a society without concepts of gender, these people would likely just "be themselves" as you describe (men wearing dresses etc) but this could still include body modification to achieve certain aesthetics, as we are all want to do, in order to try and communicate something about ourselves (even something as simple as "I like to look fashionable") to others.

idpol is the worst

...

Nope.

I don't think you understand what idpol is

Because that's cross-dressing. There are straight males who like to wear women's clothing (famous example, Eddie Izzard).

Transgender people don't feel like they're the sex they were born as. A 'man' can feel like a woman trapped in man's body. She will then want to change the outward appearance as much as possible to match how they feel they truly are.

Lenin accepted them, why can't you?

Being transgender is a mental illness and should not be accepter or encouraged. It should be treated like the illness it is.

Where is Freudposter when you need him?

What is a treatment, though? See

That is a problem. We don´t know what causes it in the first place. If it´s caused by some sort of virus or bacteria. Regardless the first step is accepting that it is an illness and then trying to find a cure.

Behaviours and traits associated with gender are not socially constructed, they are biological. Ex. women have wider hips compared to men for aid in childbirth, womens bonestructures are different. Men have more musclemass.

Lol ok

The first line, it says behaviours AND traits.

Reading comprehension: F

Well obviously we're not talking about physical traits… Those are sex

Gender is behavioural traits.

You know full well what we are talking about, don´t try to cover up your mistakes.

test

For some reason, 8ch won't let me post this, so here's my reply in the image, OP.


Why treat the brain to conform to the body, rather than contrariwise?


How do you know that your sister was just going through a phase, rather than being conditioned to conform to the norm by her material conditions? If she still considers herself "a boy at heart", then it's not that she has grown out of any previous trans identity, only that her material conditions have compelled her to conform to the norm and live inauthentically.