Fascist Economics and Socialism of Duty [How National Socialism is different from Marxist Socialism]

One of the most plagued questions we get when talking about Fascism is economics, normally brought up by people still stuck in a liberal mentality and limited scope of perception, where everything is defined in term of social and economic policies, rather than principles derived from the notion of a singular Truth and Order that dominates the world. The variety of historic economic plans and practices maintained by various champions of our Struggle likewise distorts any comprehensive answer to the question. All in all we've simply answered people that economics are secondary, they don't matter in such a way as to be a fundamental and defining element of Fascism. The answer didn't change, however there is now a way in which we can describe this attitude to economics, and it's actually a word we've used repeatedly in reference to Fascism anyway: Socialism.

Our Socialism, however, is not in of itself an economic system, it is not the Socialism of Marx and co and stands in direct opposition to both Communism and Capitalism. It would be more accurate to say that to Fascism, Socialism is the definitive social structure which is more comparable to the structures of Individualism and Collectivism, yet it stands in opposition to those two structures as well.

Individualism creates a social structure in which every man is for himself, the good of the one trumps the good of the whole, this is the structure most related to Liberalism and the Capitalist economic system. Then we have Collectivism, which is, however, largely misinterpreted nowadays as the good of the whole above the good of the individual - this is a wrong interpretation, because collectivism in its essence is just a mass of individuals with a common interest. In individualism the one seeks out all of his interests on his own, in Collectivism many people who seeks out a common interest group together in the pursuit of that interest.

Put it simply: Collectivism is Individualism seeking Strength in Numbers on given common interests. Hence the common interest(s) becomes the primary focus of the Collectivist narrative and is thus easy to define. Collectivism worked for Communism because it worked with an existing and established group - the proletariat - to sell them the idea that together, rather than apart, they could achieve all their common interests, and fulfillment of other individual interests may follow thereafter. Comparatively speaking one could argue that Collectivists get more shit done than Individualists because the victory of a collective influences the outcome for every participant of the collective and they are all somewhat elevated, whereas in Individualism all victories are… individual, and few people achieve them. Moreover in individualism absolutely every single other individual is a competitor, even when you struggle for the same prize, whereas in collectivism everyone within the collective ideally shares in the victory.

Ultimately, however, both Individualism and Collectivism are no good for Fascism, as their fundamental premise is individual interest, regardless if it is pursued individually or collectively. We've covered before how Interests are always selfish and self-serving, going against any kind of Order in favor of one's own mere whims and wants, which are always material and inevitably lead to degeneracy.

Moreover neither Individualism nor Collectivism does anything to preserve one's Personhood (an issue of semantics: I'm using personhood and personality to give different and untainted term to what is commonly referred to as individuality and identity): to be an individual merely means to be a digit, an atom; to be in a collective means to be a cog. In both instances Personhood is not valuable, atoms are just as replaceable as cogs and just as lacking in any real personality, only difference is the less rigid structure of Individualism, where you can maintain the illusion of being your own person, while walking in a sea of clones who can replace you at a moment's notice, because both Individualism and Collectivism work on the premise of equality and necessitate easy replaceability. In both instances personality can be sacrificed, either for a collective mentality or a fake, marketable "individual" identity.

Other urls found in this thread:

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media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1425200965269-0.pdf
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1415736413599-1.pdf
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media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1429264495998-0.pdf
ia801308.us.archive.org/7/items/GottfriedFederTheGermanStateOnANationalAndSocialistFoundation/Gottfried Feder - The German State on a National and Socialist Foundation.pdf
ia800801.us.archive.org/4/items/GottfriedFeder_TheProgramOfTheNSDAP/Gottfried Feder - The Program of the NSDAP - The National Socialist Workers' Party and its General Conceptions.pdf
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1422898360961-0.pdf
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1426321331894-0.pdf
archive.org/stream/AlfredRosenbergsCriticismOfOswaldSpengler/RosenbergCriticismOfSpengler_djvu.txt
solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/tomorrow-we-live-oswald-mosley.pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/A National Policy - Oswald Mosley.pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/Sir Oswald Mosley - 100 Questions (reupload).htm
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/Sir Oswald Mosley - The Greater Britain.pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/A. Raven Thompson - Corporate State.pdf
worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/germany/mussolini.htm
ia801301.us.archive.org/10/items/SelectedWritingsByJoseAntonioPrimoDeRivera/Selected Writings - by Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera.pdf
ia802307.us.archive.org/13/items/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft.pdf
fascism-archive.org/books/PrefaceButler.html
fascism-archive.org/books/EndorsementMussolini.html
fascism-archive.org/books/PoliticalDoctrinesRocco.html
fascism-archive.org/books/RecentLegislation.html
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1419025855360-1.pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Germany/Otto Strasser - Germany Tomorrow (Part 1).pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Germany/Otto Strasser - Germany Tomorrow (Part 2).pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Germany/Otto Strasser - Germany Tomorrow (Part 3).pdf
der-fuehrer.org/bucher/english/Germany Speaks.pdf
archive.org/details/GottfriedFederTheGermanStateOnANationalAndSocialistFoundation
archive.org/details/MemoirsOfAlfredRosenberg
youtu.be/N6xLMUifbxQ?t=26m13s
whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/lend.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Thus you can see how the social structure of Individualism coincides with the economic system of Capitalism, and the social structure of Collectivism with the economic system of Communism. Both Capitalism and Communism seek the same: material prosperity, but one seeks it through a loosely organized competitive free for all (hence the holy cow of the free market, liberal concept of the state not meddling in economics and so on) and the latter seeks it through a collective effort which demands a unified direction (hence the form of State Socialism with control of the means of production and distribution in the hands of the State, and the stateless Communism with those same means being directly in the hands of the collective itself with no middle man).

Communism all in all is a direct product of Individualism and Capitalism during the Industrial Revolution, which shaped distinct groups that could be identified, namely the Proletariat and the Bourgeoisie, however both ultimately wanted the same thing, it's just that the latter had already achieved it and relied on the former to maintain their prosperity, hence the inevitable narrative of exploitation: the Bourgeoisie essentially "cheated" the Proletariat in the competition for material wealth, and to finally get what they deserve, the Proletariat had to unite and to "expropriate the expropriators". Communism simply becomes the pursuit of Capitalist goals without the Bourgeoisie to stand in the way of the Proletariat.

The goal of Capitalism is ultimately to work and make profit until such a point when you don't have to work, work is an obstacle to be overcome on the path to having material wealth that can be enjoyed and thus decadence sets in. The Bourgeoisie achieved this goal to the envy of the Proletariat that decided that it was robbed of its take and thus rose up to claim that wealth for itself. It is only logical that with the advancement of technology ideas like "fully automated luxury communism" would appear, proving Spengler right: Marx hated work, making him in that sense no different from capitalists, as that scenario is the dream of every capitalist as well. You can read more on this criticism of Communism and Marx being ultimately the same as Capitalism in Oswlad Spengler's "Prussianism and Socialism" and in the "Marxism" chapter of France Parker Yockey's IMPERIUM.

Now that we defined all of this we can finally get back to the original question of Fascist economics. It should be obvious by now that Fascism does not seek material wealth as a goal in of itself, regardless if it is for individuals or a collective. Moreover, Fascism, striving to make human society coincide with the Cosmic Order and the Truth, does not favor obscurification of one's Personhood, but to the contrary wants to develop it to its full potential, which is different for every man, based on their place within the Cosmic Order. Our goal, in short, is creating the Organic State, where everyone is in their rightful place, striving to realize themselves and in doing so contribute to the realization of the nation, the race, and of the ultimate Truth.

This goal can only be achieved with a special kind of social structure, one that does not permit for the individualist free for all, nor the collectivist clan/class/group conflicts. That structure is Socialism as Social Order. This is not economic socialism, but Socialism that exists on par with and in opposition to Individualism and Collectivism, by placing upon the people a sense of Duty, which removes the element of interest inherent to these two social structures, defining them as qualitatively the same, and placing our Socialism as qualitatively different (exactly it's inappropriate to talk about any kind of "third paths" when in practice there are only two). Socialism as Social Order likewise undermines, through its introduction of Duty, the fundamental premise of both Capitalism and Communism, who seek the same ends by different means, whereas our Socialism disregards those ends and likewise burdens economics with the same Duty that it burdens the people in the social structure.

This Socialism had a variety of names to help distinguish it from economic socialism: Authoritarian/Prussian/German Socialism as opposed to English socialism (Oswald Spengler), Socialism of Political Imperialism (Francis Parker Yockey), Aryan Socialism as opposed to Semitic socialism (Evola), Spartan Socialism (Eduardo Velasco) or just the Socialism of National-Socialism.

The definitive aspect of Socialism as Social Order is that it necessitates adherence to Duty, which removes petty individual interests entirely, thus negating individualism and collectivism as rival social structures, and subsequently negating capitalism and communism as economic forms in their purity. This Socialism of Duty by necessity has to figure out and develop one's Personhood to understand his place in the Social Order, thus also realizing his place in the Cosmic Order. By that same necessity Socialism of Duty prevents individual and group conflict by removing the kind of infighting that would tear at the Social Order - the Organic State is called that because it is like a living Organism, with cells and organs, and in a healthy Organism neither cells (individuals) nor organs (collectives) fight each other. A kidney can't engage in a struggle against the heart because they have inherently different purposes to which they are "Duty bound", thus there is no room for conflict between them, no room for jealousy, no room for interests.

Socialism as a Social Order, Socialism of Duty thus also necessitates the formation of hierarchy, removing the falsehood of equality, and it affects every member of that hierarchy, from top to bottom, as everyone are Duty bound to their role within the Organic State and in the Cosmic Order. When a person grows to understand his Destiny (in the Francis Parker Yockey sense of the word as Potential), his role in the Cosmic Order, he is Duty bound to fulfill it, to strive for that Personal Truth which is a part of the ultimate Truth. Thus he finds his place in the hierarchy of the Organic State, fulfilling not only his own, Personal Truth, but also the Truth of everyone who fulfills that role, as part of that social strata/estate/caste. Realization of that strata/estate/caste Truth helps realize the bigger Truth of the Nation to which they all belong, which in turn realizes the Racial Truth, in turn realizing Human Truth at large, and each single one of those helps directly fulfill the Ultimate Truth, as well as through that build up of other Truths - this is the Organic State, where everything is in harmony and builds up to a cohesive and organic existence.

One thing that managed to maintain its natural hierarchy for the longest time is the Army, which operates on the exact same principle (as does everything, the Truth prevails in its principles on all levels, hence the possibility of that build up from Personal to Cosmic Truth), as a result this Socialism of Duty is often brought up with comparisons to the Army, a militant brotherhood where everyone fulfills their role in order for the organism of the Army to be healthy.

Economy likewise becomes subservient and Duty bound to the fulfillment of the Organic State, working towards realization of all minor Truths and the Ultimate Truth. Hence in Fascism the primary defining aspect of economics is its subservience to the same common Duty that affects all members of this Social Order. Economics cannot be a goal in of themselves as that breeds individualism, pure capitalism, liberalism, and those in turn lead to the formation of collectivism and communism. Instead, economics must be a tool towards the fulfillment of Duty and the realization of all Truths in the Organic State. Fascist economics is then economy made subservient to the Nation, which is what marks them as "Socialistic", though in actual economic terms the actual system can be a variety of things, perhaps even a form of regulated capitalism, regulated to make it Duty bound to the Organic State, the Nation, the fulfillment of Truth.

Hence the real meaning of Socialism when defining Fascist Economics - Socialism as any economic system being made subservient to the Organic State, the Nation, the fulfillment of Truth. After that you can argue over the technicalities of the exact economic system in place and its technical name, but so long as that system is subservient to those things and is Duty bound like the rest of society, it remains Socialist.

I wanted to pepper various quotes to strengthen my point throughout the article but figured that I should instead just list them all at the end with some commentary to showcase exactly how these quotes all point to this understanding of Socialism as Social Order, Socialism of Duty.

Francis Parker Yockey:

Here Parker puts Socialism in direct opposition to Individualism and subsequently Capitalism, but he makes a point of how those two are tied at the hip, they come as a package deal, he argues the opposition not in terms of economics but as ethical-social principles: in one there is a free for all, in the other people are duty bound.


Socialism as an ethical-social principle, Socialism of Duty, is antithetical to self-interest.


In the healthy organism organs and cells don't turn on each other, a struggle between them is impossible if they are Duty bound to fulfill their respective roles which is only possible under Socialism of Duty.


Socialism of Duty is necessarily Hierarchical and thus intrinsically tied with Political Imperialism (as opposed to economic imperialism as defined by Marx), with Authority, with a Duty to a higher principle, what Parker calls the superpersonal political imperative and what we would call the fulfillment of the Truth.


We could call our economics "capitalist" if a capitalist system was put in place, but so long as it is made Duty bound it is no longer pure capitalism, so calling them Socialist would be more apt simply by virtue of making this system subservient, moreover the name delivers an open, strong and bold comprehension that does not try to hide. In other words, calling a Duty bound capitalist system Capitalist is a weakness that threatens to crumble society. Duty bound capitalism is neutered at its cor from its fundamental aspects of individualism and free for all, hence making it Socialist - maintaining the word Capitalism just lends it to the return of individualism and a free for all.


The typical parallel of the Army is brought up, which you will see reappear in quotes by other people who promoted Socialism of Duty. This quote again alludes to our Socialism necessitating a Hierarchical structure, hence the mention of ranks in society, and respect of Authority relations that exist between the ranks.


True nature of economics in the Organic State revealed, economics not as an end in of itself or a tool of selfish material enrichment, but as sustenance necessary for the organism to live and stride toward the higher purpose of its existence, sustenance for its individual cells, organs and the total whole. This necessitates independence of the Nation's economics from any outside dependence, and does not permit for the independence of economic elements within the organism to a degree that permits them to go against this Duty bound structure.

Oswald Spengler:


Spengler alludes to how Socialism has nothing to do with man-made ideas or plans or ideologies, much like how Parker calls it an ethical-social principle, alluding to its fundamental reality that is independent of human ideas. Socialism of Duty is as immaterial and natural in its origins as Hierarchy, as the two go hand in hand. They are not a product of paper but a natural formation and a kind of instinct within the blood, and predate first human ideas about how to organize society, which appeared only after the natural formation of societies along the demands of that instinct.


More military parallels, which turn the working estate into a military formation marching, Duty bound, to war for a transcendent principle, the ultimate Truth.


Every individual belongs to the Organic State, to a living organism, with even the king being duty bound in service to it and thus to all its components, which are all located in their rightful place and are Duty bound to fulfill their purpose in that place.

Here there is a bit of a semantics issue as well as a point of disagreement with Spengler. What Spengler defines here as individualism we would, again, distinguish as Personhood, just to separate the individualism Spengler describes, from the liberal individualism of a competitive free for all. It should be obvious that the "individualism" of the Vikings has nothing in common with liberal individualism, moreover one can argue that the Vikings and Teutonic knights both embraced "individualism" and "socialism" as defined by Spengler, rather than be representations of one or the other.

This Personhood, however, is not antithetical, but intrinsically necessary to Socialism of Duty, where realization of one's personal Truth is driven by the qualities he attributes to individualism, and then is placed withing the Organic State, where the qualities he attributes to socialism come into play. The description of freedom and service, however, is the perfect picture of the Social Order of the Organic State, produced by Socialism of Duty.


Again, affirmation of Socialism of Duty being inherently tied to a Hierarchy that must have a pinnacle, the uppermost rank, not necessarily monarchistic in the full nature of that word, it simply must be a position of absolute power, a Monarch being in essence (the part of monarchy that is directly relevant to this Order, i.e. absolute power) the same as a Dictator or Fuhrer. A post of upmost Authority and thus of upmost Responsibility

Spengler then proceeds to again paint an accurate picture of what we call the Organic State and Socialism as Social Order.

He likewise brings up occupational guilds, which is something Evola talks about as well when describing traditional societies, and in particular that of ancient Rome, where there existed guilds of vocation, which further heightens the military character of Socialism of Duty and how it reflects in the social structure of the Organic State:


People with a common Destiny, common purpose and Duty come together forming these guilds of vocation as kinds of militant brotherhoods, serving their common Truth and the Ultimate Truth at large, coinciding nicely with what Spengler said in an earlier quote: the clattering footsteps of workers’ battalions, a calm sense of determination, good discipline, and the courage to die for a transcendent principle. These guilds are the organs of an Organic State.

Whereas people fulfilling their Personal Truth in their work, which is a calling, a vocation that is deeply necessary for their self-actualization, cannot and will never grow contemptuous of work, those who out of self-interest see work as an obstacle to material wealth and a gateway to decadence, can have nothing but contempt for work as a burden or unfortunate obstacle on the way to their goal. While capitalists achieve their goal, Communism looks at that result enviously and sees it as stolen goods, thus demanding a violent overturn to "rob the robbers". This again reinforces how Communism is a product of Capitalism and is rooted in entirely identical goals and mentality which is completely alien to Socialism of Duty. It also showcases exactly how an idea of "automated luxury communism" could come about, and why so many of the modern communists openly despise labor and stay away from it as far as possible, harping on the capitalist premise of modern society, while fully enjoying its benefits that were inasmuch their own goal as that of the capitalists they harp on.


Clear expression of our Socialism as Socialism of Duty, everyone is Duty bound to fulfill their role in the Organic State. The Gothic cathedral was likewise a symbolic representation of this Socialism for Otto Strasser: [pic]

Once again there is an allusion to the military character of Socialism, of its inherent relationship to Authority in the symbol of "the walls of the old Imperial Capital".

A powerful parallel between Socialism of Duty and Knighthood, showcasing all the important elements and typical parallels: military nature, Duty bound, authoritarian, organized into an order or a guild of vocation.


An important quote to put at ease some yanks who have a knee-jerk reaction to the word Socialism, as welfare socialism has nothing to do with the authoritarian Socialism of Duty, which by virtue of its structure cannot have leeches, putting every member of society in their rightful place, and as Spengler put it in an earlier quote: "a state were everyone has a job."


This quote showcases how under Socialism the economy is simply Duty bound to an end goal, the means by which to achieve that goal can indeed differ and, in fact, remain free, so long as the participants of the process fulfill their Duty. Sure it can be something more reminiscent of "capitalism", but in so far as it is Duty bound, it is Socialism.


Socialism of Duty, a Duty to a higher purpose, a task to be done, from the smallest task of one individual, to the task of his guild, his caste/estate, to the task of the Nation, the task being the adherence to their respective Truths and thus to the Ultimate Truth of the Cosmic Order. A Social Order in which men are free and serve at the same time, motivated by a desire that Ernst Junger characterized as "to do that which is necessary."


As Mussolini said: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." The Organic State, being an organism, demands total integration of all its parts to function, it cannot permit for the infighting of its organs or cells. Socialism of Duty thus subjugates everything to the common Duty, thus creating the integral cohesion of the organism.


Spengler once again solidifies the distinction between Socialism of Duty with its inherent hierarchical structure, and the self-interested individualism that attempts to discard Duty entirely. It is not about selfish interests and desires, but about one's proper place according to his inherent nature and thus according to his abilities.

And finally: [pic]

Eduardo Velasco:

In his book "Sparta and its Law" Velasco constantly talks about the Spartan Socialism, which serves to further solidify the understanding of our Socialism as being Socialism of Duty and thus why it is often paralleled with military structures and militant organizations, in this case the militant nature of the Spartan society.

The sober, ascetic and martial socialism preached by Lycurgus, which required all young men to part from their families and eat with their comrades, was not well received among many, especially the rich and affluent.
Here there is an emphasis on the guilds of vocation and the important bond that existed between those who shared in the same Duty.

Sparta became socialist and totalitarian — understood in its original sense of a civilization organized and disciplined by a gifted elite, formed with its best sons, and based on value-blood-spiritual-biological criteria. Such socialism is something that only could have taken place in the Iron Age, as it tried to bring together what was broken, and was more like an aristocracy than a democracy. Spengler described this type of militarist-imperialist-patriarchal system in his Prussianism and Socialism, noting how this system resurfaces again and again in history, incarnating in the larger towns and leading to empires. (Spengler distinguishes four superior socialisms: the Roman Empire, the Spanish Empire, the British Empire and Prussia, which resulted in the Second Reich. We would add two more socialisms: Sparta and the Third Reich.)
Well here Velasco does the job of connecting the dots for me whilst also adding the elements that had been more or less left unspoken, namely that the Organic State is derived from common blood and spirit.

There were no distinctions of wealth, only of valor itself, and the experience was taken into account when assessing a man. They were united by the fact of having passed the instruction, having had similar hardships, and being male Spartans. They were proud to be joining the phalanx alongside those who had amply demonstrated their toughness, bravery and righteousness. That was what made them brothers.
Again, this quote helps understand the nature of guilds of vocation within Socialism as Social Order, which had a deeper bonding element to it than merely being colleagues of the same profession, as in such guilds people are bound together in service to the same Truth, a more intimate one than the National or Racial Truth, though they all are inherently tied together and exist simultaneously as part of one Ultimate Truth. This deeper bond comes from the exclusivity of this vocation to these exact people, as it was a reflection of their inner nature. They can respect all members of the Nation as being in common service to the National Truth, but in fulfilling the same vocation members of a guild have a bond based in common instructions and hardships, there is a need to prove that one belongs to this particular brotherhood within a hierarchy of brotherhoods that together form the Organic State.

To try and partake in a vocation that is not your own by virtue of your nature thus becomes an affront to all people of that vocation as it marks such a person as an intruder into their brotherhood, as well as someone who is shirking his own unique Duty, which is why in ancient caste societies the lower castes could look down upon a person of an upper caste who attempted to partake in their activities.

The main thing in the female formation was physical and a “socialist” education to devote their lives to their country — like men, only that in their case the duty was not shedding her blood on the battlefield, but to keep alive the home, providing a strong and healthy offspring to her race, and raise them with wisdom and care. Giving birth is the fruit of the female instinct that renews the race: that was the mission inculcated in the girls of Sparta.
Here we might recall Mussolini and Gregor Strasser: [pics]

In this particular instance Socialism of Duty appeals to the inherent nature of Man and Woman, thus it is Man's Duty to shed blood on the battlefield and protect the Nation and Race, whereas a Woman's Duty is to continue its existence through procreation. These Duties likewise are only accentuated in the Socialism of Duty, whereas individualist whims lead men to avoid danger out of fear of pain and interruption to procuring material wealth or enjoying decadent pleasures, and lead women to abandon their role as mothers as an unwanted burden and unwanted consequence of pleasure-seeking.

Spartan phalanx: socialist institutions to the core.
Another allusion to the militant nature of Socialism of Duty.

By their conduct they were proving that their socialism of union and sacrifice was clearly superior to any other political system, and that they were better prepared to face the Iron Age.
If you read the entirety of this book you will see how Spartan social order fits perfectly with the description given by Spengler in a prior quote: "in the one case personal responsibility, self-reliance, determination, and initiative; and in the other, loyalty, discipline, selflessness, and a sense of obligation. To be free and to serve—there is nothing more difficult that this. A people whose spirit and being are capable of it, a nation that can truly serve and be free, deserves to take upon itself a great destiny." This Socialism of Duty may very well demand one's sacrifice, but one sacrifices themselves willingly, driven by their sense of Duty, they are both free and serve, driven by the desire "to do that, which is necessary".

Julius Evola:

We already provided a few Evola quotes above where it was appropriate, however let's highlight Evola's description of Aryan Socialism from his work "Heathen Imperialism".

In reality, however, there is an individualism which contains within itself - in the values of fidelity, service and honour - the seeds of the overcoming of the isolation and egoism of the individual and renders possible a tranquil and sound hierarchical organization. Neither the Romans nor the primordial Aryan-Roman stocks needed to wait for Christian socialism before they could reach real, higher forms of organisation. On the one hand, there is Aryan socialism, the warrior ideal of an association of free masters, and on the other there is the Semitic, ambiguous, totemic, unmanly socialism based on mutual dependency and pathos, something we would not know what to do with, and which we consider a disgrace to the European soul.
Here one can spot a similarity between Evola's and Spengler's view on individualism in the description of "Viking" individualism.

Most times Evola mentions socialism in his book he actually speaks out against it, but mostly dealing with the latter "semitic" type he describes above, providing a criticism of Marx similar to that of Spengler's and Yockey's by placing Marx's "socialism" in quotation marks. It could be argued that Evola dislikes socialism as a word, for the possible confusion it can create (going as far as saying that any "socialism" should be rejected and even the socialism of national-socialism should be monitored not to grow to become the focal point), thus inviting the rule of the masses, rather than the elites. We ourselves are familiar with the confusion the socialism of National-Socialism often creates, but everything that has been quoted so far should show how there is a solid understanding of the same Socialism of Duty with the people who share in our Struggle.

In fact, in the above description of Aryan socialism one can clearly see that Evola himself likewise shares the same vision and understanding: that is has a militant character of the warrior ideal (in line with the Sparta analogy), which sees its participants as free men who are able to serve (as per Spengler's description) - the free masters.

We can also look closer into the working's of Hitler's NS Regime through Evola's "Notes on the Third Reich" to showcase Socialism of Duty in action:

As for what concerns the economic domain, Hitler had already affirmed the pre-eminence of the political problems and a definite vision of life over economic problems. He had proclaimed that ‘the state has nothing to do with any particular economic idea or with a particular development of the economy’ and that ‘the state is an organism of the Volk and not an economic organisation.’
Subjugation of economics to serve the Nation and its Truth, regardless of what the actual economic practices might be, so long as they are made Duty bound to the Task of serving this Organic State.

Moreover, Hitler described guilds of vocation in Mein Kamp, Book 2, Chapter 12:

The National-Socialist trade-union is not an instrument of class struggle, but an instrument that represents the different occupations.
Groups of vocation, guilds exist as organs of the Organic State and not as competitors.

Further, Evola talks about some of the actions taken by Hitler once in power, which used the "Medieval organic and corporatist structures" as its virtual model, again alluding to the same Socialism as Social Order.

IGNORE PREVIOUS POST, I FUCKED UP FORMATING

Julius Evola:

We already provided a few Evola quotes above where it was appropriate, however let's highlight Evola's description of Aryan Socialism from his work "Heathen Imperialism".


Here one can spot a similarity between Evola's and Spengler's view on individualism in the description of "Viking" individualism.

Most times Evola mentions socialism in his book he actually speaks out against it, but mostly dealing with the latter "semitic" type he describes above, providing a criticism of Marx similar to that of Spengler's and Yockey's by placing Marx's "socialism" in quotation marks. It could be argued that Evola dislikes socialism as a word, for the possible confusion it can create (going as far as saying that any "socialism" should be rejected and even the socialism of national-socialism should be monitored not to grow to become the focal point), thus inviting the rule of the masses, rather than the elites. We ourselves are familiar with the confusion the socialism of National-Socialism often creates, but everything that has been quoted so far should show how there is a solid understanding of the same Socialism of Duty with the people who share in our Struggle.

In fact, in the above description of Aryan socialism one can clearly see that Evola himself likewise shares the same vision and understanding: that is has a militant character of the warrior ideal (in line with the Sparta analogy), which sees its participants as free men who are able to serve (as per Spengler's description) - the free masters.

We can also look closer into the working's of Hitler's NS Regime through Evola's "Notes on the Third Reich" to showcase Socialism of Duty in action:


Subjugation of economics to serve the Nation and its Truth, regardless of what the actual economic practices might be, so long as they are made Duty bound to the Task of serving this Organic State.

Moreover, Hitler described guilds of vocation in Mein Kamp, Book 2, Chapter 12:


Groups of vocation, guilds exist as organs of the Organic State and not as competitors.

Further, Evola talks about some of the actions taken by Hitler once in power, which used the "Medieval organic and corporatist structures" as its virtual model, again alluding to the same Socialism as Social Order.

Economic bodies were constrained only by one principle: Duty to fulfill their Task, "to provide nourishment to the higher organism" as per Yockey's explanation.


This once again speaks to the great flexibility of the actual economic system that can exist under Fascism/NS, but only so far as it is made integral to the entire Organism, made a part of it with its own role, it's own task that it is Duty bound to fulfill.

There is more to be found in Evola's 1950 "Orientations" brochure:


Subordination of the economic to the higher tasks, making it Duty bound.

More militant parallels, now that enterprises be organized in militant fashion of the Socialism of Duty, with more calls for the recreation of the guilds of vocation, and the condemnation of both capitalism and Marxism.


The overcoming of individualism and collectivism comes from the realization of one's Personhood and personality by adhearing to one's own Truth and assuming his place in the Social order.

Ernst Junger:

Another figure that we've quoted by now, who formulated a very sucinct way to explain what Yockey described as "instinct of socialism":


Nothing to do with economics, materialism, personal gain or petty personal interests, instead a desire to fulfill that which is necessary, that which fate desires - to fulfill one's Duty, in other words the Truth. A shorter still way to describe this would be "Will to Truth."


Showcasing how this kind of Socialism is natural to the military formation and experience of War, as the Veterans act out true Socialism, as opposed to the theoretical economic "socialism" of the Marxist rebels.


And therein lies the inherent relationship of Blood and Soil Nationalism and the Socialism of Duty - to realize one's own nature with joy and to fulfill one's place in a Social Order where everyone is Duty bound.

In total, one can hardly deny what Socialism is, as practiced by Fascists and National-Socialists, not an economic system, but a Social Order necessary for the formation of the Organic State, one that subjugates economy to Duty before the Nation and one that elevates every man to reach his potential and share in common joy of Duty to the Cosmic Order.

There are many other quotes that can be scrutinized and will betray further that essence of our struggle and our goal:

[1st pic]
Duty before the Truth, Struggle in fulfilling that Duty.
[2nd pic]
ndividual self-interest is of no value, the task set before one by his Personal Truth is what truly defines his personality and his place in the society and life itself, thus even leaders are made manifest by their Duty calling out to them to fulfill their task, their purpose.
[3rd pic]
In doing that which is necessary, that which Truth demands, that to which we are Duty bound, we realize our own Personal Truths and thus achieve self-actualization and meaning.
[4th pic]
Common blood is common nature, common Truth, common purpose, task and Duty, Duty to the Nation and it's Truth.

So when someone wants to talk about Fascist Economics they need be simply told: Fascist Economics is economics subjugated to the Organic State and Duty bound to nourish it, it's cells and organs, so that they too might fulfill their own respective Duties and realize their place in the Cosmic Order.

...

you're getting good, autists, but you've got to try harder to shill your autistic role playing group

top kek

He cucked out to the king and italian fascism was gay and kiked.

The italian officer corps was absolute cancer and terrible, the italian soldier was a nature coward unlike german soldiers.

hurrrr they were different because socio-economic policies


Not an argument.

I honestly tried to read through everything, but fascist rants are more autistic than communist rants.

I'm not arguing.

Just pointing out that autism march is shilling here and people should know

anyways grats on the autistic rant

See this is what im talking about. You literally have no clue what NatSoc is. You are just fascists that want to ride on NSDAP's success and try to sound deep and spiritual with your cosmic truth/order bullshit.

smh

Fascism is gay and kiked anyways. Look at italy, over 20 years of heavy handed fascist rule and all it takes is a few british paratroopers to undo it all!

Hell, the fascists were jealous of the germans and in consequence back stabbed them whenever possible

While Spengler leans toward the Action Française and Fascism as the new style of politics, he ridicules the same will in his own folk. Spengler does not grasp what Hitler has done! - Alfred Rosenberg

Why would we sage these kind of threads? Just because we dont like fascism doesnt mean we should sage the threads. Same with communist/leftypol threads. Discussion is good!

they're sliding something and shilling and spamming autistic copypasta rants user

I dont see anything worth sliding in the catalog.

NatSoc is a weltanschauung that (of course) needs to manifest itself in the material world. To the unknowing eye this manifestation might seem very similar to fascism and indeed some poeple even think they are the same thing.
Fascism is a political ideology that tries to build a spiritual aspect upon this material basis (much like commiunism tries to do). And more so in these days when they have to compete with NatSoc.

NatSoc is like an iceberg while fascim is like an inverted pyramid.

What's with all the ironmarch shilling here recently?

Are you mad because your autistic forum is becoming completely irrelevant?
Maybe if you could stop being larping faggots for a second in your life you'd actually achieve anything other than plastering swastikas all over town.

Take the faggots in the TRS thread with you. You've become one of the worst enemies of people who actually try to mainstream our views. Whether you're controlled OP or just behave like it I don't care. You're infighting pieces of shit.

I cant find this quote but im fairly certain it's suppose to be "völkisch state"

Good thread OP, i hope it clears some misconceptions.


Kek

Sound to me like the whole point of this is to get spiritual fulfillment from the government and economy. Why not just join a church?

It's actually about practically optimizing every aspect of individual life and society, and about making it meaningful.

Then it can achieve greatness and truly advance . Otherwise you get degeneracy and devolution because any system that's not organic cannot achieve much.

Actually churches are degenerate because they separate man from God, and his earthly life from his "spiritual life" . Those two must come together.

I might not like larpermarch, but that doesn't change the fact that you happen to be a D&C shill.

Besides, they have done more IRL activism than many other groups, edgy or not.

Fascism is pretty much the religion of the state.
All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. - Benito Mussolini
NatSoc is the religion of the blood.
"The Myth is the Myth of the Blood, which, under the sign of the Swastika, released the World Revolution. It is the Awakening of the Soul of the Race, which, after a period of long slumber, victoriously put an End to Racial Chaos." - Alfred Rosenberg

The two are not mutually exclusive

See

All of this shilling against IM is actually making me wonder, maybe they are getting something right.

I'd rather say that NatSoc is more about cultural aspects, and Fascism about practical/material aspects. NatSoc defines the goals, Fascism sets up the framework for accomplishing those goals.

I could be wrong though.

Great thread OP.

And there is where you lost it. Fascism isn't a religion of the state, it is a host "system" so to speak that a successful country could be implemented under. Fascism is a system of government, and exclusively that.

Between the myth, the policies that it implemented, and the people it represented, National Socialism was an entire cultural revolution. It was the truth of the people, not a system of government.

Fascism is a house, NatSoc is the person living in it. Comparing Fascism to National Socialism is a folly because they try to solve two different problems.

Like i said NatSoc is a weltanschauung and fascism is a political idea. NatSoc uses "things" in the material world as means to an end. And here is where the confusion happens. Even though their political policies differs quite a lot people mistake NatSoc's foundation as the same material foundation has fascism has. And since this doesnt make sense people nowadays tries to fix this by building a spiritual idea on a material basis which makes for the kind of autism in OP.

So your position is that matter and mind/spirit etc. are ultimately separate? (dualism) and irreconcilable?

Fascism is the corporate state and beliefs in the supremacy of the state.
NatSoc doesn't even use the kind of government the fascist did and they never intended to.

If the systems are as mutually exclusive as you say, then explain why NSDAP borrowed ideas from Fascism?

No, they stack.

Cuz they were good ideas????

Yet it is not. Consider the very meaning of the word for a moment.

The root of the word fascism is Fasces. A Fasces is a bundle of sticks (Yea, hahaha, its a faggot) used to represent the collective power of the Roman Empire. Each stick represented a single persons will (an individual stick can be broken), while together they become unbreakable. The Fasces is an important part of Roman military tradition, and a central part of their symbolism.

With this symbolism in mind, the word Fascism literally means "the following of the will of the people." Mussolini even wrote himself that he had no time for fantastic party programs, Fascism values the unified power of the people not the state.

This is further reflected in their choice of symbolism. The Fascist party wanted to bring back the glory of the Roman empire. Unity was an important concept to them (mostly out of necessity, everything needs to work together exactly to maintain such large land holdings).

tl;dr The idea that Fascism places the state at the top is a lie created by people wishing to undermine it. Fascism instead places the people who run it smoothly at the top. An inverted pyramid may be the correct analogy for it, the few that once ruled have little power, while the many keep the system pumping.

National Socialism and Fascism

Hitler is a spiritual vessel, a demi-divinity; even better, a myth. … Mussolini is a man. – Carl Jung

The Axis connection between National Socialist Germany and Fascist Italy (with Italian propaganda laughably claiming that Mussolini was a major influence on Hitler’s thinking) led to popular misconception that National Socialism is an offshoot of fascism, or a particular brand of fascism, when in fact the only relation between National Socialism and fascism was that both were countermeasures to the capitalist-communist dichotomy, which accounts for their political alliance. Anti-Zionism was not originally part of fascist ideology, but was added after the rise of National Socialist Germany mainly for the sake of cementing the alliance. It should also be noted that many in the NSDAP had become positively embittered towards Fascist Italy towards the end of WWII, considering it to have contributed to their defeat at the hands of the Zionist Allies.

The roots go down to an overrating of Fascism. Blind to all disillusioning experiences of the First World War, Hitler seemed convinced, at least until 1943, that the will of Mussolini had made over the Italian people, had lifted them to a new level. – Alfred Rosenberg

Nonetheless, Zionist agents have further pushed this conflation after WWII (smearing National Socialists as “fascists”, which we do not accept at all) in order to regulate National Socialism to a generic fascist strawman more easily dismissaile by libertarian and other small-government advocates. With a new hostile dichotomy forming between fascist-leaning and libertarian-leaning camps in the present-day, it is important to realize that National Socialism stands politically apart from, and ideologically far above, this debate.

Will To Power vs Will To Freedom

Fascism itself was not National Socialism, contrarily to what so many haters of both seem to think. It was a political — and economical — system; not a more-than-political creed; and it inspired a Movement of practical and immediate — of time-bound — significance, not one of cosmic scope. – Savitri Devi

By fascism, we refer to autocracy that overtly uses autocratic state authority over economy, media and other national apparatus to unite and energize society. It is symbolized by the ancient Roman fasces that celebrates the principle of strength through unity, in the sense that a bundle of rods is much more difficult to break than single rods. Indeed, a strong argument could be made that the principal example of fascism should be not Mussolini’s Italy, but ancient Rome itself, as Rudolf Hess alludes: “In a difficult time the Romans gave full power to a young and capable leader — and the Romans knew something about governing! They knew that “men make history.”” Mussolini’s Italy is a good example of fascism in the modern world on account of its revival of this Roman symbol to rapidly bring together what was before Mussolini’s time a deeply divided society. North Korea’s Juche (meaning “Integralism”) system is a good example of a present-day fascist system in practice, though it does not call itself such. Nevertheless, fascists (especially those who call themselves such) by definition should be essentially Roman in outlook.

Thus, contrary to antifa/mainstream media labelling, racist far-right groups which create not unification but division in society along ethnic lines are not authentically fascist at all, but its utter opposite. They are about splitting the rods into many sub-bundles and then whacking one sub-bundle against the other until almost all the rods are broken. We should refer to them as pseudo-fascist, as contrary to authentic fascism as neo-Nazism is contrary to authentic National Socialism. No far-right racist would say what Mussolini said: “Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today.… National pride has no need of the delirium of race.” Yet it is Mussolini’s view which echoes the Roman outlook, whereas the racist far-right view comes not from Roman civilization but from Western civilization (hence it would be more accurate if they called themselves falangists after the heraldry of racists/Islamophobes Ferdinand and Isabella. (Falangism was the ideology of Spain under Francisco Franco (Jew). After his first meeting with Franco, who was openly pro-Jewish, Hitler told Mussolini that he would rather spend the same amount of time having his teeth pulled out by his dentist than meet Franco again.) As such, we support any and all efforts by authentic (ie. non-racist) fascists to reclaim the fasces - a symbol of unification - from pseudo-fascists in the same way that we authentic National Socialists are in the process of reclaiming the swastika - a symbol of nobility - from neo-Nazis.

On the other hand, to say that National Socialism is a brand of fascism is equivalent to saying that veganism is a style of cooking; the statement is not technically incorrect, but is intellectually seditious by placing the focus on effect rather than cause. The simplest way to understand the key difference between fascism and National Socialism is to inspect the essence of their rhetoric:

Fascism: If we work together, we will have the power to achieve any goal we want. (“It is humiliating to remain with our hands folded while others write history. It matters little who wins. To make a people great it is necessary to send them to battle even if you have to kick them in the pants. That is what I shall do.” – Benito Mussolini)

National Socialism: This is our goal. The only way to achieve it is to work together. ( “They are inspired by the feeling that they have a mission to fulfill, and we might just as well egg them on a little.” – Adolf Hitler)

Fascism does not specify the goal first. Instead, it promises the individual a return for his investment of participation – in the form of national power to achieve arbitrary goals. Its own slogan: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state” measures the value of everything else by its positive or negative effect on the state, but offers no fixed goal in relation to which the value of the state itself can be measured. In other words, power itself is the spiritual motivation for fascism, and it follows that the accomplishments of a fascist nation will always be mere frivolities to demonstrate its power to itself or to others. National Socialism, on the other hand, insists that power is strictly the means to achieve the goal – ending exploitation - which is specified at the beginning and thereafter made the focal point onto which everything else converges. For example, the fascist considers politics in general and war in particular to be among the best methods for character-building, and thus feels glad to be involved in them for their experiential value alone, whereas the National Socialist considers these to be unfortunate burdens, and thus approaches them purely out of a sense of duty and purely for the sake of defeating the enemy, in Hitler’s words: “A war-leader is what I am against my own will. If I apply my mind to military problems, that’s because for the moment I know that nobody would succeed better at this than I can.” National Socialism motivates individual participation not by glory, but by duty. National Socialism values not mastery, but nobility. Our effect might be strength through unity, but our cause is UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY.

Fascism can be perfectly successful even when nobody (including its leaders) actually knows or cares about the purpose for which a nation exists, so long as its leaders keep the nation strong. This is not the case with National Socialism, where loyalty to purpose is paramount. In practice, therefore, fascists are merely statist glory-hounds, whereas National Socialists are genuine ideological warriors. While some fascists mistakenly call themselves National Socialists, usually because they from their fascist perspective are impressed by the order and efficiency of National Socialist Germany (as described by Hitler: “The fact that in the new Reich there will be only one army, one SS, one administration, will produce an extraordinary effect of power.”), the reverse does not happen. To call an authentic National Socialist a fascist is an insult, as it suggests we are motivated by strength as a goal rather than merely as a tool.

Men “in Time” either have no ideology at all and do not pretend to have any, or they pretend to serve a faith “above Time” or “against Time” and exploit the latter for their own ends (like all the false Christians who fought for themselves in God’s name, and all the false National Socialists for whom the struggle under the Swastika Flag was only a means to work themselves into power). – Savitri Devi

Part of the confusion arises because both onlookers see both fascists and National Socialists criticize “materialism” without realizing that the word is being used differently by each camp. By “materialism”, the fascist (much like the Orthodox Jew) merely means consumer products, which in excess distract individuals from the power motive. By “materialism”, the National Socialist refers not merely to consumer products, but to the power motive itself which the fascist (much like the Jew) worships! In our eyes, the fascist who relinquishes consumer products for the sake of national power is not an iota less materialistic than the consumerist, but merely more collectivist.

Despite its ideological inferiority, nevertheless on account of the advantages of its autocratic governmental form, a fascist nation has a possibility of rapidly developing into something more meaningful, for example when religion is able to supply the external purpose and the nation takes religion seriously enough to pursue it (such as Leon Degrelle’s concept of Christus Rex that led to the experiment of Rexism, intended as an ideology of ”Christian Socialism” for Belgium), or when its leader is converted to National Socialism over time. Bearing this in mind, we should generally prefer a fascist state over a democratic state in any country even when we do not agree with the political views of the current fascist leadership, since it at least simplifies the problem to one of winning over the leader – rather than the masses – to our ideology.

It is only with the Roman Empire where one can say that culture was a factor under the government. – Adolf Hitler

As National Socialists, we should be open-minded towards alliances with authentic fascists for the sake of common practical goals (e.g. anti-Zionism (“Think of it, the Romans were daring to confiscate the most sacred thing the Jews possessed, the gold piled up in their temples!” – Adolf Hitler)), provided that the fascist leadership is of reasonable and respectable personality. On the other hand, National Socialists must be wary against degrading into fascists themselves, as the corrupting lures of power and grandeur are not to be underestimated. This is one challenge that National Socialist Germany did not last long enough to have to face. As anti-Zionists, it is our expectation that Zionist agents will do everything they can to infiltrate pro-autocracy movements for the sake of promoting wherever possible fascism over National Socialism, and pseudo-fascism over fascism, and to confuse the distinctions between each under a broad banner of what they will call “fascism” but in fact will be pseudo-fascism, so as to control such movements and serve the Zionist agenda through them.

Overman vs Foe Destroyer

Lust for pleasure and so-called ‘glory’… is the mark of the barbarian. – David Myatt

The supposed ideological connection between Nietzsche and Hitler is based on nothing more than a misleading photo-op of Hitler at the Nietzsche Archive in 1933, which he visited not on his own initiative but at the insistence of Elisabeth Foerster (a financial donor to the NSDAP). There is no evidence that Hitler considered National Socialism to be in any way inspired by Nietzsche; on the contrary, during private conversations with such as Hans Schemm he denounced Thule Society members (often the same ones interested in occult studies) who attempted to suggest a Nietzschean origin to National Socialism. In Hitler’s own words: “I’ve expressly and repeatedly forbidden this sort of thing! All that rubbish about the “Thing” places, the solstice festivals, the Midgard snake, and all the rest of the rubbish they dredge up from German prehistory! Then they read Nietzsche with fifteen-year-old boys and, using incomprehensible quotations, paint a picture of the superman, exhorting the boys: ‘That is you—or that is what you are to become.’” In fact, Hitler’s main philosophical influence was undoubtedly Schopenhauer, whose books he studied both by himself as a soldier during WWI, and later again under self-professed Schopenhauer disciple Dietrich Eckart. Alfred Rosenberg recalls those days of their private study group: “Occasionally, when I went to see him in the morning, he would meet me on the stairs and read me his latest effort right then and there. … Or else, Eckart might just have come across another beautiful passage in his beloved Schopenhauer, which he would insist upon reading to me on the spot.” Hitler’s other great influence was Wagner (himself a Schopenhauer disciple, by no coincidence), to the extent that he said: “Whoever wants to understand National Socialism must first know Wagner.” Nietzsche, in contrast, held a negative opinion of both Wagner and Schopenhauer (“The unworthy attempt has been made to see Wagner and Schopenhauer as types of mental illness: one would gain an incomparably more essential insight by making more precise scientifically the type of decadence both represent.” – Friedrich Nietzsche) Therefore it is impossible for National Socialism to be Neitzschean. It is fascism, if any political ideology, that is Nietzschean.

Internally, fascism is highly compatible with the concept of the Overman, and it is common for fascists to share attraction towards this idea in addition to their political views. In contrast (and despite what Zionist academia claims), National Socialism, which consistently associates itself with Aryan mythos, is more compatible with the ancient concept of the Foe Destroyer (Arhat). The difference between the two is that the Overman is advancement to a prospective condition (lit. by building ‘over’ the condition of ‘man’), making it a spiritual form of transhumanism, whereas the Foe Destroyer is reversion to an original condition (lit. by ‘destroying’ the ‘foes’ that corrupted this condition). Hence the former is based on a non-Aryan spirituality of endless increase, whereas the latter is based on an Aryan spirituality of Original Nobility.

Fame is something which must be won; honour, only something which must not be lost. – Arthur Schopenhauer

The fascist sees the main human dichotomy as masters and slaves, of which they wish to be masters. The National Socialist, in contrast, considers the master and the slave to be two aspects of the same thing: the barbarian. The National Socialist sees a different human dichotomy: barbarians and knights, of which we wish to be knights – defenders of all oppressed, bane of all oppressors. The barbarian is a spiritual slave, no matter how powerful he manages to become, because he lacks nobility. Only the knight is truly free.

Nietzsche’s Zarathustra. I immediately tried to absorb the entire work, but something about it struck me as alien. That was, as I realized later, the overly pathetic, even theatrical element which, to me, appeared willful rather than perfect. – Alfred Rosenberg

The Judgement of Paris

The organization is only a necessary evil. At best it is only a means of reaching certain ends. The worst happens when it becomes an end in itself. – Adolf Hitler

In mythology, the goddesses Hera, Athena and Aphrodite contested for Paris’ verdict of supreme beauty, with Aphrodite receiving his decision. The point here is not that Paris made the wrong choice; we as political revolutionaries already know that Aphrodite - who represents gratification of a purely private nature - was the wrong choice. The point of a three-way contest is to warn us that there are two wrong choices.

It is right here, in plain sight, even in one’s own name. Jung said that “freud” in German means pleasure. And Freud centered his theory precisely in sexual pleasure. “Adler” is bird of prey in German and his psychological doctrine took as its basis the instinct of power. “Jung” is youth, and the great doctor placed rebirth at the center of his teachings, standing on the prow of the ship of eternal youth. In his house a plaque reads: “We were young, we symbolize eternal youth.” He knew this. – Miguel Serrano

We suspect that those who confuse fascism with National Socialism are precisely those who do not understand the difference between the gifts of Hera (who would make Paris ruler of the most powerful kingdom in the world) and Athena (who would make Paris invincible in battle). Common interpretation would have us deduce that assurance of military dominance is obsolesced by assurance of political dominance, but this assumes that a nation’s soldiers exist to fight for the survival of the nation. Only by understanding that a nation has no reason to survive at all unless it fights for a transcendent purpose does Athena’s gift actually make sense.

Obviously, Hera’s gift and Athena’s gift would appeal to different kinds of people. We would expect the split to correlate very well with the split between fascists and National Socialists. Incidentally, that Ares and Hephaestus (Hera’s sons) overlap with Athena in skills while completely lacking her noble character is directly equivalent to the superficial similarities between fascism and National Socialism discussed above, and hopefully further highlights the great danger in confusing the two.

A second chance to choose may be approaching in the near future. If we get it wrong again, I really do not know how long we would have to wait until we get a third chance.

Fascism is weak and gay

National Socialism is the only way

see


or

natsoc is a german manifestation of fascism

the worldview is the same - the surface level policies etc of natsoc are uniquely german

retarded comment

Fascism is the idea of the supremacy of the state via the corporate state. And via this state they will achieve unity
Thus understood, Fascism, is totalitarian, and the Fascist State - a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values - interprets, develops, and potentates the whole life of a people - Mussolini
The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative. - Mussolini

No. Not even close.

Please look at exhibit A:

And the shill didn't even read the fucking posts.

Typical.

Great job taking quotes out of context. We just deposited 200 shekels into your account.

Wouldn't a nice quote on what Mussolini thought the state should be entirely kill your narrative? Would you care to share one with us?

If you have one please show me.

...

capitalism makes a totalitarian claim on behalf of the entrepreneur; fascism makes a totalitarian claim on behalf of the State; and communism makes a totalitarian claim on behalf of the workers. - Strasser (i know i know but it's still relevant)

Gladly

"Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual."

lets face it
The Italian army has always been shit

If i remember corretly the Italian army pledged loyalty to the king and not Mussolini which made for some peculiar situations

the state is the people.
both fascism and communism seek to serve the people in opposite ways.
communism seeks peaceful equality while fascism seeks militant hierarchy.

I fail to see how this is goes against what i have said.

It doesn't, that quote is simply giving context to yours. The "State" is a unified version of the people, not some lofty and undefined idea.

Iron March pisses off TRS, alt right types because half of the alt right is literally fucking homosexual and Iron March calls them faggots and condemns them for it.

So whenever you see people bitching about IM you can safely assume is some alternative right-style queer who's salty about getting revealed as a furry, cross dresser or other form of faggot.

So IM is basically Common Filth tier disgust with the "alt-right" plus Fascism?

TRS/alt right are full of fags. That doesn't mean autism march isn't the pinnacle of unadulterated autism.

Keep goosestepping in larpy military uniforms (that you have not earned to wear) from foreign countries that you are not citizens of and keep putting your autistic stickers on college campuses that definitely helping and not making you look autistic

Anyways autism march is literally TRS with even more deracinated fascism that worships a failed state (italy) that needed the germans to bail them out every step of the way

In so far as it is embodied in a State, this higher personality becomes a nation. It is not the nation which generates the State; that is an antiquated naturalistic concept which afforded a basis for XIXth century publicity in favor of national governments. Rather is it the State which creates the nation, conferring volition and therefore real life on a people made aware of their moral unity. - Mussolini
It is not the state which commands us, but we who command the state. It is not the state which has created us, but we who have created our state. - Hitler

Be that as it may what state does TRS worship some spic county that let a Jew dictate it's economic policies because le fashy helicopter man.

I read it as the state unites the people and no the people that creates and represents the state.

Yes. Common Filth has even given IM a few shout outs.

you're not wrong, but at least the Chilean military tries to emulate the Wehrmacht, the italians back stabbed and betrayed them every step of the way

I'm not sure what this means, are you saying the state is an entity beyond the people?

So what the hell is the "cosmic order" and the "truth" you speak about? You ask that society should become Fascist because of these things but you hardly do anything to define it beyond "the duty to do what needs doing".

Where's the basis for this? why do you make this claim and don't properly define it? furthermore, what are you philosophical pillars that uphold this concept seemingly born out of nothing? However noble this may sound to you, It sounds like nothing but extremely abstract and mystical drivel, a dialectical panacea for all ills which you never give a propper name to.

So are we all expected to follow your alchemical musings? Take you for a wiseman and work towards this "truth"?

That's pretty much what a fascist believes, but not what a NatSoc believes.
Fascism has the state as the highest entity.
NatSoc has the volk* as the highest entity.
*volk is an ethnic community extending across many generations, unified by common culture, ethnicity and race more than political boundaries.

Exactly.

Dunno if you have read

I'm conflicted, I've always felt the state and the people that comprised it were the same.

Fuck it man, how am I supposed to devote any loyalty to some pie-in-the-sky abstraction no-one can clearly define?

Alt right is a Jewish subversion of the right movement, it's for the right what SJW's are for the left, a cheap Jewish copy and another side of the same shekel.

They are inherently hostile towards ideologically sound movements because fascism/NatSoc is inherently anti-Jewish because it severely narrows down their parasitical capabilities. So they will rather have idiots spouting that all Jews should be killed (because it fits their agenda) than people working on a socio-political system that would render them powerless without firing a single bullet at them.

That's exactly what my post was about. This cosmic order/truth bs is what the fascist nowadays talk about but not what a NatSoc talks about.

that's all you need. nobody laid out a "plan" for any governing body until very recently

They're cool sounding words and therefore you should accept them without giving it a second thought.

Visually explaining my post

(Heiled)
Thanks for simplifying this concept for me.

William Luther Pierce describes it well.

For a NatSoc the state is a tool to make sure the race survives and flourish. A means to an end if you will.
For a fascist the state is the end and the highest entity.

I wonder how the most old, the more pure of the volkish people would see towards op's ideology.

youtube.com/watch?v=X77dkiDpBoM

...

The fascist back in the days (afaik) didn't focus very much on the spiritual aspect. I has risen up after the war.
One could also say that political policies and spiritual foundation could switch place (for a IM fascist). But i feel like the end result will be very similar so i dont make a big deal about it.
One could argue that people like Yockey is a fascist and does not follow what i describe. It's true that Yockey follow the NatSoc scheme in that he base everything on a spiritual foundation.
But first of all Yockey denies race and by that we can without a doubt say that Yockey is not a NatSoc. Secondly i would argue that Yockey lack almost completely the material foundation.
Yockey is in a category of his that i like to call neo-Spenglerism.

Was just about to link this. Definitely a must watch. Personally feel like it's a TGSNT for the already redpilled.

enjoy your brainwash

Hitler and the National Socialist Movement was 110% christian.

this is certainly enlightening.
say would happen to know of any books that go into real detail on fascism and natsoc like that.
I just have trouble finding any without too much bias.

I am rewatching it a second time, it takes a bit to digest as the content is extremely different to modern content. I am somewhat understanding it, but it literally takes a different form of brain to properly attune to it.

...

its just all pseudo intellectual bullshit

It all seems to be a question of the philosophical basis behind the purpose and function of the state and society. I grant to NS/Fascism that the ideas they are based on are on the mark, but it seems like everything else, like the material and functioning aspects of society will just magically fall into place if only the people get behind those ideas.

As a way to realign current societies back to their cultural roots and strengthen the people (in the folkish way), NS/Fascism seems great, but as an actual structural form of government, it seems very vague and wishy washy. Like we can just take the Nationalist philosophy but then organized the society in numerous other ways.

NatSoc
Myth of the 20th Century
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1425200965269-0.pdf
Mein Kampf
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1415736413599-1.pdf
Hitler's Second Book
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1425113651740-0.pdf
Hitler's Table Talk
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1429264495998-0.pdf
The German State
ia801308.us.archive.org/7/items/GottfriedFederTheGermanStateOnANationalAndSocialistFoundation/Gottfried Feder - The German State on a National and Socialist Foundation.pdf
The Program of the NSDAP
ia800801.us.archive.org/4/items/GottfriedFeder_TheProgramOfTheNSDAP/Gottfried Feder - The Program of the NSDAP - The National Socialist Workers' Party and its General Conceptions.pdf
Nazi-Sozi
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1422898360961-0.pdf
Germany Reborn
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1426321331894-0.pdf
Rosenbergs Criticism of Spengler
archive.org/stream/AlfredRosenbergsCriticismOfOswaldSpengler/RosenbergCriticismOfSpengler_djvu.txt

Fascism
Tomorrow We Live
solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/tomorrow-we-live-oswald-mosley.pdf
A National Policy
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/A National Policy - Oswald Mosley.pdf
Fascism: 100 Questions Asked and Answered
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/Sir Oswald Mosley - 100 Questions (reupload).htm
The Greater Britain
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/Sir Oswald Mosley - The Greater Britain.pdf
The Coming Corporate State
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Britain/A. Raven Thompson - Corporate State.pdf
The Doctrine of Facsim
worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/germany/mussolini.htm
Selected Writings by Jose Antonio Primo De Rivera
ia801301.us.archive.org/10/items/SelectedWritingsByJoseAntonioPrimoDeRivera/Selected Writings - by Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera.pdf
H. R. Morgan book series
You need to buy that one.
The Theory of Mind as Pure Act
ia802307.us.archive.org/13/items/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft/thetheoryofminda00gentuoft.pdf
The Political Doctrine of Fascism
fascism-archive.org/books/PrefaceButler.html
fascism-archive.org/books/EndorsementMussolini.html
fascism-archive.org/books/PoliticalDoctrinesRocco.html
fascism-archive.org/books/RecentLegislation.html

Other
Manifesto of the Communist Party
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf
Imperium
media.8ch.net/pdfs/src/1419025855360-1.pdf
Germany Tomorrow
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Germany/Otto Strasser - Germany Tomorrow (Part 1).pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Germany/Otto Strasser - Germany Tomorrow (Part 2).pdf
laraj.ca/AGwiki/uploads/Fascism/Germany/Otto Strasser - Germany Tomorrow (Part 3).pdf

In no particual order.
I have surely missed something but its a good start without a doubt

guess he wasn't part of the thule society either, huh?

You can also see

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Good one. Saved

Thanks. It's fresh out of the press. Just made it. Getting tired of people not getting this simple yet significant difference.

Changed the wording a bit.

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May I inquire as to what flavor fedora you are, good sir?

Im currently reading that now so i cant put it on my list. I have gotten about 350 pages (i have the Millennium Edition) and so far it hasnt really talked about anything political. In my mind you need to have read all of Hitlers books before you read Hitler's war to really appreciate the genius of Hitler.

Face it, National Libertarians are the future and it's the wave Trump's riding

Has it ever donned on your that most of Hitler's domestic work was done by his ministers?

Not sure what i am tbh. Im not an athiest or a christan. I do belive in some sort of higher power or entity im not just sure what it is. The closest thing i guess is Rosenbergian if that's a thing.

That's how the Führerprinzip works.

>no Hitler's Revolution

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wew, do you have any actual evidence for this?

Hitler's Revolution is brilliant but not for a list like the one i made. I only want books from the persons themself if you understand what i mean.

Not him, but according to MIT half of all children will be autistic by 2050.

Where is all this autism coming from? What has the jew done to our lives?

wouldn't that be the other way though, seeing as autists are going to be deported with trumps anti autism stand

Not really.

Goering and other ministers slowly usurped power and increased their sphere of influence in the reich's functions until Hitler was basically powerless and ineffectual on the domestic front

some say its all the vaccinations and the mercy in them thats doing it

Hitler had the power to dismiss them at any moment, even in the last days of the war. But yes i agree that people like Himmler got to powerful but that was solely because of the war.

Führerprinzip

It rejects in general and in its own structure all those principles according to which decisions are to be taken on the vote of the majority and according to which the leader is only the executor of the will and opinion of others. The movement lays down the principle that, in the smallest as well as in the greatest problems, one person must have absolute authority and bear all responsibility. In our movement the practical consequences of this principle are the following: The president of a large group is appointed by the head of the group immediately above his in authority. He is then the responsible leader of his group. All the committees are subject to his authority and not he to theirs. There is no such thing as committees that vote but only committees that work. This work is allotted by the responsible leader, who is the president of the group. The same principle applies to the higher organizations – the Bezirk (district), the Kreis (urban circuit) and the Gau (region). In each case the president is appointed from above and is invested with full authority and executive power. … One of the highest duties of the movement is to make this principle imperative not only within its own ranks but also for the whole State – Adolf Hitler

National Socialism values the individual personality above all. This may at first glance appear contradictory to the National Socialist position that demography is destiny, but upon closer inspection is in fact part of the same position. It is the individual who introduces the potential for positive change (negative change requires no individual inspiration), and then it is demographics which determine the extent to which this potential can be actualized. As Hitler asks rhetorically: “Does anybody honestly believe that human progress originates in the composite brain of the majority and not in the brain of the individual personality?” National Socialists view history as a moral struggle of rare individual heroic idealists in opposition to traditionally popular norms. Aryan racial theory merely adds the proposition that these idealists are who they are by blood.

From amidst a world in which slavery was considered as a necessary evil by respectable people, sprang a few individuals who condemned it … To those to whom the age-old exploitation of animals seems normal just because it is practically universal and as old as man, we shall say that there are today people who strongly disapprove of it — never mind if they be but a handful scattered among millions of human beings still at a more barbaric stage of evolution. There are today a few men and women, far in advance of our times, who keenly feel the revolting injustice of all exploitation … the horror of all gratuitous infliction of suffering. … Those few are now “dreamers,” “eccentric folk,” “cranks” — like all pioneers. But who can tell whether their opinion will never become that of average man, and their principles the law of the world? – Savitri Devi

It is therefore accurate to call National Socialism an individualist ideology, but this radical individualism is almost the total opposite of the so-called “individualism” of liberal/libertarian/anarchist conception. Any true conception of individualism does not and could never imply individual expression by everyone, for the simple reason that whenever everyone in the same society simultaneously attempts individual expression, the result is mutual cramping and hence no individual expression for anyone. True individual expression is only ever achieved when only one person per society - the leader by definition - is expressing his individuality, and the duty of all sincere individualists in the same society is to support this leader such that the leader’s individuality is able to be expressed to the fullest. Radical individualism is thus wholly devoid of (and indeed contrary to) self-centredness; the radical individualist purely wishes to see individuality maximally expressed - not necessarily one’s own individuality. This is none other than the attitude of die-hard fans of pop culture icons (musicians, actors, athletes, fictional characters, etc.), who feel that their greatest or even only meaning in life is to support the individual expression of the icon to whom they have devoted themselves, whether financially or via production of fanworks, presence at fan events and offering fan feedback, and who set aside much of their own individuality in order to do so. A political radical individualist is always an absolute monarchist, who (unless he happens to be the leader himself) would consider it his calling in life to seek and find a worthy leader to serve, making himself an extension of his leader’s personality much as pop culture fans make themselves (by the processes described above) extensions of their icon’s personality. As Rudolf Hess succinctly stated: “Hitler is Germany.”

The word “folk” etymologically derives from the word “follow”, and hence has the same meaning as the present-day word “following” (noun) as commonly used in pop culture to describe a fanbase of a particular icon. The state in this worldview is simply the totality of the mechanisms that most efficiently allow the leader’s following a.k.a. folk to assist in the expression of the leader’s personality. And, just as the true die-hard fan lives up to his name by psychological readiness to die for his icon without question and at a moment’s notice, the true political individualist is similarly ready to die for his leader. It is no coincidence that National Socialism is aligned with youth (“The Hitler Youth has taken his name. It is the only organization in the Reich that does bear his name.” - Joseph Goebbels), as fan passion is most closely associated with youthful enthusiasm and declines with age among most people.

The insane belief in equality that found its crassest expression in political parties is no more. The principle of personality has replaced the notion of popular idiocy. – Joseph Goebbels

To further elaborate on the spirit of radical individualism, one who sincerely wishes to see individuality maximally expressed can feel no urge to follow anyone who does not indeed possess an outstanding individual personality. Thus a leader in the individualist worldview is never a traditionalist, and a follower in the individualist worldview is also never a traditionalist, for traditionalism only appeals to those who lack reverence for individuality. A radical individualist wishes to see individuality expressed always and only ever in opposition to tradition, the latter being invariably determined by the norm rather than by the exception. Furthermore, a radical individualist defines personality always and only ever as opposition to identity (“Personality (will plus reason) is a power representing the spiritual in man opposed to the material. … Persona (instinct plus understanding) is the body of man and his interests.” – Alfred Rosenberg), the latter being invariably determined by pre-existing roles into which we are placed without our own consent rather than by our own sincerity of spirit in absence of pressure to meet expectations. Thus a good measure of individual personality is the extent to which it scorns confinement by tradition (identity being one aspect of tradition), so that a shallow personality is anti-traditional only in superficial ways, whereas a deep personality is anti-traditional in the very fundamentals of its thought. (“True personality at first hostilely faces the object to be altered, then the latter is forced to answer to a formal will. When this occurs, personality style is the result.” – Alfred Rosenberg) As such, so-called “traditionalist leaders” are not leaders at all in our eyes, but mere paternalistic mediocrities, or - more bluntly - slave prefects.

Radical individualism – “individualism for the leader alone” – thus simultaneously opposes both the phony “individualism for everybody” of the modern False Left, and the “individualism for nobody” traditionalism and paternalistic authoritarianism of all right-wing ideologies, and as such is an attitude exclusive to the True Left. Classical Platonist ideas about a “philosopher-king” come close in outward form to our conception of leadership, but Romantic-influenced National Socialism hits the deeper mark by visualizing the leader as less a philosopher and more – almost entirely – an artist, hence further emphasizing the importance of individual personality. Hitler was precisely such a leader, and National Socialism was a movement by and for people with artistic sympathies at heart. The comparison between a National Socialist leader and a pop culture icon becomes even more analogous with this in mind. Such a leader must not be concerned about his own popularity among his followers, or else he would have ceased to be leading his followers and degenerated into doing whatever they want him to do, and thus ceased to be a leader (or even an individual) in any meaningful sense. Instead, as an artist, the leader’s only duty is to stay true to his artistic vision.

“In its organization the State must be established on the principle of personality, starting from the smallest cell and ascending up to the supreme government of the country. There are no decisions made by the majority vote, but only by responsible persons. And the word ‘council’ is once more restored to its original meaning. Every man in a position of responsibility will have councillors at his side, but the decision is made by that individual person alone.” – Adolf Hitler

“If the National Socialist Movement should fail to understand the fundamental importance of this essential principle, if it should merely varnish the external appearance of the present State and adopt the majority principle, it would really do nothing more than compete with Marxism on its own ground. For that reason it would not have the right to call itself a Weltanschhauung. If the social programme of the movement consisted in eliminating personality and putting the multitude in its place, then National Socialism would be corrupted with the poison of Marxism, just as our national-bourgeois parties are.” – Adolf Hitler

It is inaccurate to describe such a leader as a tyrant, as he does not force anyone to serve himself – the very notion is as nonsensical as the notion of pop culture icons forcing anyone to be their fan. In a practical world of many countries and many leaders, all followers should be allowed to choose to offer their services to whichever leader they prefer, and to physically relocate to the corresponding country as necessary in order to serve their leader of choice alongside the rest of their folk. It is mutually beneficial among leaders to facilitate such a process of free relocation by aspiring followers, as it will match every leader with the followers most loyal to himself. One who believes that he himself can be a better leader than any currently existing is also open to try becoming one via his own means. Only after an oath of loyalty is freely taken by a follower does he become honour-bound to serve the leader until death or until the leader releases him from his oath. It is democracy which is tyrannical by forcing large numbers of citizens to tolerate elected governments towards which they feel no loyalty, based on the excuses: 1) they lost the vote; 2) they can vote again in a few years’ time

"Germany speaks" might be a good one too.
der-fuehrer.org/bucher/english/Germany Speaks.pdf

I like how OP just posted his rant and just left. Still i think the thread turned out bretty gud, so ill give it a bump

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Thanks OP. I've been wanting to learn about this for a while. I'll read it after dinner. Where do I learn more about these things?

Economy thread? Mind if i post some Gesell?

THE NATURAL ECONOMIC ORDER ON FREE-MONEY, OR MONEY AS IT SHOULD BE

INTRODUCTION

The human mind is baffled by the abstract, and money hitherto has been wholly abstract. There was nothing with which to compare it. There were, indeed, various kinds of money, metal and paper; but as regards the most important aspect of money, namely the forces regulating its circulation, these different varieties were identical, and this brought the mind of the monetary theorist to a standstill. Equal things are not comparable, and, offering no hold for the intellect, inhibit the act of conception. The theory of money stood before a blank wall, utterly unable to move on. In no country was there, or is there, a legally sanctioned theory of money upon which the administration of money could be based. Everywhere the monetary administration is guided by purely empirical rules for which nevertheless, it claims absolute authority. Yet money is the foundation of economic life and public finance; it is a tangible object, the practical importance of which fires the imagination as does scarcely any other; an object, moreover, that has been known to, and indeed artificially produced by mankind for 3000 years. Consider what this means: In one of the most momentous of public and private interests we have for 3000 years acted blindly, unconsciously, ignorantly. If further proof were needed of the hopelessness of so-called abstract thinking, it is here.

With Free-Money, as described in this book, the situation is radically altered. Money has ceased to be abstract. Free-Money for the first time supplies the point of comparison for an examination of money. Money has found a background; it has become an object with colour tones and limiting surfaces. Give me a fulcrum, said Archimedes, and I can move the world from its axis. Given a point of comparison, man can solve any problem.

Free-Money supplies the plumb-line for the construction of the theory of money, a plumb-line by which all departures from the vertical immediately become apparent.

FREE-MONEY

Money is an instrument of exchange and nothing else. Its function is to facilitate the exchange of goods, to eliminate the difficulties of barter. Barter was unsafe, troublesome, expensive, and very often broke down entirely. Money, which is to replace barter, should secure, accelerate and cheapen the exchange of goods.

That is what we demand of money. The degree of security, rapidity and cheapness with which goods are exchanged is the test of the usefulness of money.

If, in addition to this, we ask that money shall cause a minimum of trouble by its physical properties, we make a claim that is valid only if the purpose for which money exists is not thereby defeated.

If security, acceleration and cheapening of the exchange of goods can be achieved by means of a form of money which cannot be harmed by moth and rust and which besides, can be conveniently hoarded, then let us, by all means, have such money. But if this form of money diminishes the security, rapidity and cheapness of the exchange of goods, we say: Away with it!

Knowing that the division of labour, the very foundation of our civilisation, is here at stake, we shall select whatever form of money is suited to its necessities, quite regardless of the wishes or prejudices of individuals.

In order to test the qualities of money we shall use no scales, crucibles or acids; neither shall we scrutinise some coin or consult some theorist. We shall consider, instead, the work done by the money. If we observe that a certain form of money seeks out goods and conveys them by the shortest route from the workshop to the consumer; if we notice that goods cease to congest the markets and warehouses, that the number of merchants diminishes, that commercial profits shrink, that no trade depressions occur, that producers are assured of a ready disposal of all they can produce while working at full capacity, we shall exclaim: This is an excellent form of money! - and we shall hold to this opinion even if, on closer examination, we find that the money in question is physically unattractive. We shall consider money as we consider, say, a machine, and form our judgement exclusively on its efficiency, not on its shape or colour.

The criterion of good money, of an efficient instrument of exchange, is: -

1.That it shall secure the exchange of goods - which we shall judge by the absence of trade depressions, crises and unemployment.

2.That it shall accelerate exchange - which we shall judge by the lessening stocks of wares, the decreasing number of merchants and shops, and the correspondingly fuller storerooms of the consumers.

3.That it shall cheapen exchange - which we shall judge by the small difference between the price obtained by the producer and the price paid by the consumer. (Among producers we here include all those engaged in the transport of goods).

How inefficiently the traditional form of money functions as an instrument of exchange has been demonstrated in the previous part of this book. A form of money that necessarily withdraws when there is lack of it, and floods the market when it is already in excess, can only be an instrument of fraud and usury, and must be considered unserviceable, no matter how many agreeable physical qualities it may possess.

Judged by this criterion, what a disaster was the introduction of the gold standard in Germany! At first a boom, fed by the millions taken from France, and afterwards the inevitable crash!

We introduced the gold standard because we expected an advantage from it, and what other advantage could we expect from a change of our monetary system than greater security, cheapening and acceleration of the exchange of goods ?

But if such was the purpose, what was the justification for the introduction of the gold standard to achieve it ? Gold coins, neat round shining toys, were expected to facilitate, accelerate and cheapen the exchange of straw, iron, limestone, hides, petroleum, wheat, coal, etc., but how that was to be done nobody was able to explain; it was simply a matter of faith. Everybody - even Bismarck - relied on the judgement of the so-called experts.

After the establishment of the gold standard, just as before it, the exchange of goods consumes 30, 40, and sometimes perhaps 50% of the entire output. Trade depressions are just as frequent and just as devastating as in the days of the thaler and the florin; and by the increased number of dealers we observe how slight is the mercantile power of the new money.

The reason why the mercantile power, the power of exchanging goods, of this money is so slight, lies in the fact that it has been over-improved - improved, that is, exclusively from the view-point of the holder. In fixing upon the material for mousy, only the buyer, only demand was considered. The goods, supply, the seller, the producer of the goods, were entirely overlooked. The very finest of materials, a precious metal, was chosen for the manufacture of money - just because it offered certain conveniences to the holders of money. Our experts did not pause to consider that the holders of goods in selling their products had to pay for these conveniences. By the selection of gold as money-material, the buyer has been allowed time to choose the most favourable moment for the purchase of goods, and in granting this freedom the devisers of the gold standard forgot that the seller would be forced to wait patiently in the market till the buyer chose to appear. Through the choice of the money-material, demand for goods was placed at the discretion of the owners of money and delivered up to be the sport of caprice, greed, speculation and chance. Nobody saw that the supply of goods, owing to its material nature, is at the mercy of this arbitrary will. Thus arose the power of money which, transformed into financial power, exercises a crushing pressure on all producers.

In short, our worthy experts when considering the currency question forgot the goods - for the exchange of which the currency exists. They improved money exclusively from the point of view of the holder, with the result that it became worthless as a medium of exchange. The purpose of money evidently did not concern them, and thus as Proudhon put it, they forged "a bolt instead of a key for the gates of the market". The present form of money repels goods, instead of attracting them. People do, of course, buy goods, but only when they are hungry or when it is profitable. As a consumer everyone buys the minimum. No one desires to have stores, in planning a dwelling house the architect never includes a storeroom. If every householder were today presented with a filled storeroom, by tomorrow these stores would be back on the market. Money is the thing people want to own, although everybody knows that this wish cannot be fulfilled, since the money of all mutually neutralises itself. The possession of a gold coin is incontestably more agreeable than the possession of goods. Let the "others" have the goods. But who, economically speaking, are these others ? We ourselves are these others; all of us who produce goods. So if, as buyers, we reject the products of the others, we really all reject our own products. If we did not prefer money to the products of our fellows, if instead of the desired yet unattainable reserve of money, we built a storeroom and filled it with the products of our fellows, we should not be obliged to have our own products offered for sale in expensive shops where they are, to a great extent, consumed by the cost of commerce. We should have a rapid and cheap turnover of goods.

Gold does not harmonise with the character of our goods. Gold and straw, gold and petrol, gold and guano, gold and bricks, gold and iron, gold and hides ! Only a wild fancy, a monstrous hallucination, only the doctrine of "value" can bridge the gulf. Commodities in general, straw, petrol, guano and the rest can be safely exchanged only when everyone is indifferent as to whether he possesses money or goods, and that is possible only if money is afflicted with all the defects inherent in our products. That is obvious. Our goods rot, decay, break, rust, so only if money has equally disagreeable, loss-involving properties can it effect exchange rapidly, securely and cheaply. For such money can never, on any account, be preferred by anyone to goods.

Only money that goes out of date like a newspaper, rots like potatoes, rusts like iron, evaporates like ether, is capable of standing the test as an instrument for the exchange of potatoes, newspapers, iron and ether. For such money is not preferred to goods either by the purchaser or the seller. We then part with our goods for money only because we need the money as a means of exchange, not because we expect an advantage from possession of the money.

So we must make money worse as a commodity if we wish to make it better as a medium of exchange.

This $100 note (bill) is shown as it will appear during the week August 4th - 11th, thirty-one ten-cent stamps ($3.10) having been attached to it by its various holders on the dated spaces provided for the purpose, one stamp for each week since the beginning of the year. In the course of the year 52 ten-cent stamps ($5.20) must be attached to the $100 note, or in other words it depreciates 5.2% annually at the expense of its holders.

Free-Money, British Currency, is issued in 1-shilling, 5-shilling, 10-shilling, £1, £4, £10, and £20 currency notes and in perforated sheets of stamps resembling small postage stamps, value 0.5 d., 1d., 2.5d., and 5d., which are used for attaching weekly to the notes, to keep them at their face value. A penny stamp must, for example, be attached weekly by the holder to the above £4 currency note which is divided into 52 dated sections for this purpose. The note is shown as it will appear during the week August 4th - 11th., 31 penny stamps having been attached to it by its various holders, one stamp for each week from the beginning of the year. In the course of the year 52 penny stamps (value 4s. 4d.) must be attached to this £4 note, or in other words it depreciates 5.4% annually at the expense of its holders.

As the owners of goods are always in a hurry for exchange, it is only just and fair that the owners of money, which is the medium of exchange, should also be in a hurry. Supply is under an immediate, inherent constraint; therefore demand must be placed under the same constraint.

Supply is something detached from the will of owners of goods, so demand must become something detached from the will of owners of money.

If we decide to abolish the privileges enjoyed by the owners of money and to subject demand to the compulsion to which supply is by nature subject, we remove all the anomalies of the traditional form of money and compel demand to appear regularly in the market, independently of political, economic or natural conditions. Above all, the calculations of speculators, the opinions or caprices of capitalists and bankers will no longer influence demand. What we term the "tone of the Stock-Exchange" will be a thing of the past. As the law of gravity knows no moods, so the law of demand will know of none. Neither the fear of loss nor the expectation of profit will be able to retard or accelerate demand.

In all conceivable conditions demand will then consist of the volume of money issued by the State, multiplied by whatever velocity of circulation is permitted by existing commercial organisation.

All private money reserves are automatically dissolved by such compulsory circulation. The whole volume of money issued is in uninterrupted, regular and rapid circulation. No one can any longer interfere with the public monetary administration by putting into circulation or withdrawing private reserves of money. And the State itself is under obligation at all times rigorously to adapt demand to supply - an obligation which it can fulfil by issue or withdrawal of trifling sums of money.

More than that is not needed to protect the exchange of goods against any conceivable disturbance, to render crises and unemployment impossible, to reduce commercial profits to the rank of a wage, and in a short space of time to drown capital-interest in a sea of capital.

And what do the priceless advantages of compulsory monetary circulation cost us, the producers, who create the money through the division of labour ? Nothing but renunciation of the privilege of infecting demand with our arbitrary will, and, through it, with greed, hope, fear, care, anxiety and panic. We need only abandon the illusion that we can sell our produce without someone else's buying it. We need only pledge ourselves mutually to buy, at once and in all possible circumstances, exactly as much as we have sold. And in order to secure reciprocity for this pledge, we must endow money with properties that will compel the seller of goods to comply with the obligations incidental to the possession of money; we must compel him to convert his money into goods again - personally, if he has any need of goods, or through others, to whom he lends his money, if he has not.

Are we then willing to break the fetters that enslave us as sellers of our produce, by renouncing our despotic privileges as buyers over the produce of our fellows ? If so, let us examine more closely the unprecedented and revolutionary proposal of compulsory demand. Let us examine a form of money subjected to an impersonal compulsion to be offered in exchange for goods.

HOW THE STATE PUTS FREE-MONEY IN CIRCULATION

The money reform deprives the Banks of Issue of the privilege of issuing banknotes. Their place is taken by the National Currency Office which is entrusted with the task of satisfying the daily demand for money.

The National Currency Office does not carry on banking business of any kind. It does not buy or sell bills of exchange, it does not classify business firms as first, second and third rate. It entertains no connections with private persons. The National Currency Office issues money when the country needs it, and withdraws money when money is in excess. That is all.

To put Free-Money in circulation all public treasuries are instructed to exchange, when requested to do so, the old national metal money or paper money for Free-Money; one dollar (franc, or shilling) of Free-Money being given for one dollar (franc, or shilling) of the old money.

Anyone not consenting to this exchange may keep his gold. No one will compel him to exchange it; there will be no legal pressure; no force will be employed. The public is merely warned that after the lapse of a certain term (1, 2 or 3 months) the metal money will be only metal, and no longer money. If by that time anyone still possesses metal money he is free to sell it for Free Money to a dealer in precious metals, but he must bargain about the price. The only form of money recognised by the State will be Free-Money. Gold, for the State, will be a mere commodity like wood, copper, silver, straw, paper or fish-oil. And just as today taxes cannot be paid in wood, silver or straw, so gold will not be available for the purpose of paying taxes after expiration of the term for exchange.

The State knows that there is no room for any but State money, and that consequently no special efforts are needed to give this money currency. For the indispensability of money and the necessity for State control of money automatically lead to that result. So if anyone decides to set up a private mint and to strike coins of any particular weight and fineness, the State can tranquilly look on. Coins, for the State, have ceased to exist and so, therefore, have forgers of coins. The State simply deprives all coins, including those formerly struck by itself, of its guarantee of weight and fineness, the minting machinery being sold to the highest bidder. That is all the State does to prevent gold from circulating - but it suffices.

So if anyone opposes Free-Money to the point of rejecting it as payment for his goods, nobody will interfere. Let him continue to demand gold for his products. But he will have to weigh this gold and test its purity, coin by coin, with touchstone and acids. He will, moreover, have to ascertain whether anybody will buy the gold from him, and at what price, and he must be prepared for certain surprises. If on second thoughts he finds this procedure troublesome and expensive, he is still free to seek salvation within the pale of Free-Money. He will then only be following the example of the former enemies of the gold standard, the German landowners who at first fiercely opposed the new gold money but very soon accepted it.

What is the State to do with the gold received in exchange for Free-Money ? The State will melt it down and have it manufactured into chains, bracelets and watch-cases to present to all the brides of the nation on their wedding day. What more reasonable use could be found for such a mass of treasure ?

For the State does not need gold, and by selling the gold received for Free-Money to the highest bidders it would depress its price and embarrass other nations, as happened when Germany so thoughtlessly sold its demonetised silver. If on that occasion Germany had used the silver thalers to manufacture wedding presents, or to erect in front of every pawn-shop and loan-bank life-sized statues to the champions of the gold standard - it would have been better for economic life at home and abroad, and even for the State finances. For the few millions which the State realised from the sale of silver, a mere drop in the ocean considered from the point of view of German economic life as a whole, were largely instrumental in depressing the price of silver, and the difficulties of the German landowners, caused by the low price of grain, were partly due to these silver sales. (*Laveleye: La Monnaie et le Bimétallisme.) If Germany had adopted the above proposal and manufactured the thalers into silver wedding presents, it would have recovered the loss tenfold out of the increased taxpaying capacity of its subjects.

HOW FREE-MONEY IS MANAGED

After Free-Money has been put in circulation and metal money withdrawn, the sole function of the National Currency Office is to observe the ratio at which money and goods are exchanged and by increasing or decreasing the monetary circulation, to stabilise the general level of prices. In doing so the National Currency Office is guided by statistics for the calculation of the average price of all goods, as discussed in Part III of this book. According to the results of this calculation, which show whether the price-level tends to rise or fall, the monetary circulation is reduced or enlarged. (Instead of altering the volume of money the Currency Office might alter its rapidity of circulation by reducing or raising the rate of depreciation of 5.2%. But the first method proposed is preferable).

To increase the monetary circulation, the Currency Office pays new money into the public treasury which will expend it by means of a proportional reduction of taxation. If the taxes due to be collected amount to 1000 millions, and 100 millions of new money is to be issued, the taxes are reduced 10%.

That is a simple matter, but the decrease of the monetary circulation is still simpler. For since the amount of Free-Money in circulation decreases 5% annually through depreciation, all that the Currency Office has to do, to decrease the volume of money, is - to do nothing. Any surplus consumes itself automatically. (*This refers to Gesell's original plan, published in 1891, for applying the principle of Free-Money, in which he proposes to let the face-value of the currency notes decrease from 100 at the beginning of the year to 95 at the end - instead of keeping the face-value at 100 by stamping the notes at the holder's expense. See page 245.) Should this not suffice the volume of the currency could be reduced by increasing taxation and using the resulting surplus to destroy Free-Money notes. The volume of currency could also be regulated by purchase or sale of Government securities by the Currency Office.

By means of Free-Money, therefore, the Currency Office has perfect control over supply of the instrument of exchange. It controls absolutely both the manufacture of money and the supply of money.

The Currency Office does not require a palatial building with hundreds of officials, like the German National Bank. The Currency Office carries on no banking business of any kind. It has no counters, nor even a safe. The money is printed in the national printing press; the issue and the exchange of the money is effected by the public treasuries; the general level of prices is calculated by the bureau of statistics. All that is needed is one man who takes the money from the printing house to the public treasuries, or destroys the money collected by taxation for the purpose of regulating the currency. The whole establishment consists of a printing press and a stove. Simple, cheap, efficient!

With this simple apparatus we can replace the arduous labour of gold-digging, the ingenious machinery of the mint, the working capital of the banks, the strenuous activity of the Bank of Issue, and yet make sure that today, tomorrow, for ever, in good days and in bad, there will never be a penny too much or too little in circulation. And we can do more than merely replace the present organisation. We can establish permanently a model currency system for all the world to imitate.

THE LAWS OF CIRCULATION OF FREE-MONEY

Let us now consider Free-Money more closely. What can its possessor or holder do with it ? On January 1st its value in the markets, shops, pay-offices, public treasuries and courts of justice is $100 and on December her 31st it is only $95. That is to say, if the holder of the note intends to employ it at the end of the year to pay $100, on a bill of exchange, invoice or demand note, he has to add $5 to the note.

What has occurred? Nothing but what occurs with every other commodity. Just as a certain egg steadily and rapidly departs from the economic conception "egg" and is not comparable to it at an on completion of the rotting process, similarly the individual dollar note drifts away from what the dollar stands for in the currency. The dollar as the currency unit is permanent and unchanging; it is the basis for all calculations; but the dollar as a money-token has only the starting point in common with it. Nothing has occurred, then, but what occurs with everything about us. The species, the conception is unalterable; but the individual, the representative of the species is mortal and moves steadily onwards towards dissolution. All that has occurred is the separation of the object of exchange from the unit of currency, the individual from the species, and the subjection of money to the law of birth and decay.

The holder of this perishable money will beware of keeping the money, just as the egg-dealer will beware of keeping the egg any longer than he must. The holder of the new money will invariably endeavour to pass on the money, and the loss involved by its possession, to others.

But how can he do so? By selling his products he has come into possession of this money. He was forced to accept it, though well aware of the loss its possession would cause him. His products were from the first intended for the market; he was forced to exchange them, and exchange, under the given conditions, could be effected only through the medium of money; and this is the only money now produced by the State. Hence he was compelled to accept this odious Free-Money in exchange for his products if he was to dispose of them at all and so attain the object of his labour. Perhaps he might have deferred the sale, say until he was in immediate need of other goods, but meanwhile his own products would have deteriorated and become cheaper; he would have incurred a loss, perhaps greater than that involved in the possession of the money, through the diminution in quantity and the deterioration in quality of his products, and through the cost of storage and care-taking. He was under constraint when he accepted the new money, and this constraint was caused by the nature of his own products. He is now in possession of the money which steadily depreciates. Will he, in his turn, find a purchaser, will he find anybody willing to let the loss arising out of the possession of such money be passed on to him ? The only person who will accept this "bad" new money from him, is someone like himself under constraint, someone who has produced commodities and is now anxious to dispose of them in order to avoid the loss incident to their possession.

We thus at the very outset, note a remarkable fact, namely that the buyer has a personal desire, arising immediately out of the possession of his money, to pass it on to the possessor of commodities, and that this desire equals in strength the seller's eagerness to pass on his commodities to the buyer. The gain from the immediate completion of the bargain is the same for both parties, and the effect, of course, is that during the negotiations about price the buyer can no longer refer to his invulnerability (gold), and threaten to withdraw should the seller not submit to his terms. Buyer and seller are both poorly armed; each has the same urgent desire to strike the bargain. Under such conditions, obviously, the terms of the bargain will be fair and the transaction will be accelerated.

But let us now suppose that the Free-Money note which we have just been considering has come into the possession of a saver, merchant or banker. What will they do with it ? In their hands also, the money-token steadily shrinks away. They came into possession of Free-Money by exchanging their former gold coins. No law constrained them to make the exchange; they might have kept the gold, but the State proclaimed that after a certain date it would refuse to give Free-Money for gold, and what could they then have done with their gold ? They could have had it manufactured into gold ornaments, but who would have bought these ornaments, and at what price ? And with what would the gold ornaments have been paid for? With Free-Money!

So they found it advisable not to let the term for exchange slip by. And now they are considering the new money, their property. The uselessness of the demonetised gold forced them to consent to exchange it for Free-Money, and the loss inseparable from possession of the new money now forces them to get rid of it in order to transfer the loss as quickly as possible to others.

But since as savers and capitalists they have no personal demand for goods, they now seek a market for their money with people who wish to buy goods, but at present have no money. That is, they offer the money as a loan - just as they used to do in the case of gold. There is, however, a difference. Formerly they were free to lend the money or not, and they only lent it as long as they were satisfied with the conditions of the loan. Now they are forced to lend the money, whatever the conditions of the loan. They now act under compulsion. By the nature of their property (commodities), they were compelled to accept Free-Money, and now they are compelled by the nature of Free-Money to lend it. If they are not satisfied with the interest offered, let them buy back their gold, let them buy goods, let them buy wine which is said to become better and dearer in the course of time, let them buy bonds or Government securities, let them become employers of labour and build houses, let them enter commerce, let them do anything they please that may be done with money-one thing only they cannot do: they cannot now lay down the conditions upon which they are willing to pass on their money.

Whether they are satisfied with the interest offered by the debtor or the yield promised by the projected house; whether the securities selected are favourably quoted; whether the price of the wine and precious stones which they intend to hoard has been forced up too high by the great number of buyers with the same ingenious idea; whether the selling price of the matured wine will cover the cost of storage, caretaking, etc., makes no difference, for they are compelled to dispose of the money. And that too immediately, today and not tomorrow. The longer they stop to think, the greater the loss. Supposing, however, that they find somebody willing to take the money, the loan-taker can have only one intention, namely to invest the money at once in goods, in enterprises or in some other manner. For no one will borrow money simply to put it in a box, where it depreciates. He will endeavour to pass on the loss connected with the possession of money by passing on the money.

In whatever way the money is invested, it will immediately create demand. Directly, through purchasing, or indirectly through lending, the possessor of money win be obliged to create a demand for commodities exactly proportionate to the quantity of money in his possession.

It follows that demand no longer depends on the win of the possessors of money; that price-formation through demand and supply is no longer affected by the desire to realise a profit; that demand is now independent of business prospects and expectations of a rise or fall of prices; independent too, of political events, of harvest estimates; of the ability of rulers or the fear of economic disturbance.

The supply of money, just like the supply of potatoes, hay, lime, coal and so forth, will be weighable, measurable, and without life and volition. Money, by an inherent natural force, will steadily tend towards the limit of the velocity of circulation possible for the time being, or rather it will in all conceivable circumstances tend to overleap this limit. Just as the moon, calm and unaffected by what may be going on here below, moves in its orbit, so Free-Money, detached from the wishes of its holders, will move through the market.

In all conceivable circumstances, in fair weather and in foul, demand will then exactly equal: -

1.The quantity of money circulated and controlled by the State. Multiplied by:
2.The maximum velocity of circulation possible with the existing commercial organisation.

...

What is the effect upon economic life ? The effect is that we now dominate the fluctuations of the market; that the Currency Office, by issuing and withdrawing money, is able to tune demand to the needs of the market; that demand is no longer controlled by the holders of money, by the fears of the middle classes, the gambling of speculators or the tone of the Stock Exchange, but that its amount is determined absolutely by the Currency Office. The Currency Office now creates demand, just as the State manufactures postage stamps, or as the workers create supply.

When prices fall, the Currency Office creates money and puts it in circulation. And this money is demand, materialised demand. When prices rise the Currency Office destroys money, and what it destroys is demand.

Thus the Currency Office controls the tone of the market, and this means that we have at last overcome economic crises and unemployment. Without our consent the price-level can neither rise or fall. Every movement up or down is a manifestation of the will of the Currency Office, for which it can be made responsible.

Demand as an arbitrary act of the holders of money was bound to cause fluctuations of prices, periodic stagnation, unemployment, fraud. Free-Money makes the price-level dependent on the will of the Currency Office which uses its power, in accordance with the purpose of money, to prevent fluctuations.

Confronted with the new money everyone will be forced to conclude that the traditional custom of storing up reserves of money must be abandoned, since reserve money steadily depreciates. The new money, therefore, automatically dissolves all money hoards, those of the careful householder, of the merchant and of the usurer in ambush for his prey.

And what does this change further signify for economic life ? It signifies that henceforward the population will never be in possession of more than the exact amount of the medium of exchange necessary for the immediate requirements of the market -an amount regulated so as to eliminate fluctuations of prices caused by too much or too little money. It signifies that henceforward no one can frustrate the policy of the Currency Office by flooding the market with money drawn from private reserves at a time when the Currency Office considers a drainage of the market opportune, or by draining off money into private reserves when the Currency Office wishes to replenish the stock of money. It signifies consequently that, to enforce its policy, the Currency Office need issue or withdraw only insignificant quantities of money.

But with the new form of money no one needs to provide for a money reserve, since the regularity of the circulation makes reserves superfluous. The reserves were a cistern, that is, merely a receptacle, whereas the regularity of circulation of the new money will make it a perennially-welling spring.

With Free-Money demand is inseparable from money, it is no longer a manifestation of the will of the possessors of money. Free-Money is not the instrument of demand, but demand itself, demand materialised and meeting, on an equal footing, supply, which always was, and remains, something material. The tone of the Stock-Exchange, speculation, panic and collapse cease from now on to influence demand. The quantity of money issued, multiplied by the maximum velocity of circulation possible with the existing commercial organisation, is in all conceivable circumstances the limit, the maximum and also the minimum, of demand.

Money, anathema throughout the ages, will not be abolished by Free-Money, but it will be brought into harmony with the real needs of economic life. Free-Money leaves untouched the fundamental economic law which we showed to be usury, but it will cause usury to act like the force that seeks evil but achieves good. By eliminating interest Free-Money will clear away the present ignoble motley of princes, rentiers and proletarians, leaving space for the growth of a proud, free, self-reliant race of men.

Fun fact: The NSDAP took the label of National Socialism because other parties were doing the same in regards to the socialism label. It was meant to serve as an appeal to those who didn't yet adopt the party, but who also liked the promises made by the socialist party.

t. Hitler's Revolution talks more in-depth about it.

kek, no they didnt

In what way is Trump libertarian? He's fucking protectionist, loves eminent domain, against gay marriage, OK with no fly no buy. He's nominally conservative and a civic nationalist (the kind of nationalism that will kill itself)

he's closer to a libertarian nationalist

...

...

Can I get a comparison on the quality of life under NatSoc vs Fascism?

Very interesting read, thanks OP.

Hitler's revolution is a good book about quality of life under NatSoc.

Bumbing for ultimate victory.

Ironmarch, the admin is the writer of these artikal's.

While I get your point, ultimately there is little practical distinction, because the goal should be a system where the state IS the people, and the people are the state. The main distinction could be made in that fascism allows newcomers to join the state organization and thus the people, while natsoc puts the genetic interests first.

But both call for strength in unity and duty, and both call for discipline over self interest. Ultimately you could say fascism exists in isolation while natsoc is bound by definition to an ethnos. Hitler used what could be called fascist methodlogy for the specific purpose which was the survival and prosperity of the German people. Mussolini formulated a system of thought, a system of statecraft which is most natural regardless of specific polity or ethnos, but is fundamentally meaningless without a carrier, a user.

So instead of hair splitting we should recognize that, as nature would have it, the pack prospers when it acts as one, the interests of the individual coincide with the interests of the whole. We must take an objective to heart as axiom, for otherwise everything else is meaningless, and then apply the principles outlined above to achieve it - as Hitler did. The axiomatic purpose - survival of our kin. The method - fascist style of governance, tailored for our objective. You will surely find that the exact policies taken by Hitler would hardly work in most nations, under current circumstances. You have to adapt, the mental framework of the objective (volk) and method (fascism or whatever you want to call it) in mind.

Much of the OP I agree with, and honestly, most of the debate in this thread regards issues that aren't even touched upon there. OP describes the approach to solving issues like economic policies. The tl;dr would be to have the state operate as an organism, without internal instability or division, but towards a common goal. The OP does not define the goal, as this necessarily varies between nations. Fascism can equalky well apply to an artificial, civic entity as it can to a more natural, ethnic one. After all, the organism can do many different things and still function - fascism makes the body function, and the body is a tool for a deeper purpose. My personal slant is probably more NS, as I view the intrinsic purpose of any creature as survival, reproduction and prosperity of its progeny, and the ethnos as a group strategy. But ultimately everyone must arrive at their goal themselves. The topics touched upon in the OP, primarily pertaining to economics as a tool, a derivative of the overarching purpose, are worthy of consideration for any ethnonationalist.

I believe the state must be devoted to its people, both current and future. This is the axiom, the input. The system of thought outlined above is the structure of the action, the program - or rather a guideline for developing one befitting my purpose. The desired output is the perpetual success of my volk. Thus the controversy is to a large extent a confusion of axioms and logical operations - of which, admittedly, some of the original ideologues may be guilty of themselves, or at least disagree with mine.

With your way of thought you can make communism, Jucheism, strasserism, syndicalism etc. the same as national socialism.
Fascism does not share the same spiritual foundation, material foundation and political foundation (they are most similar here thats why people confuse them for the same thing).
I'm a NatSoc and i would not want fascism in my country. I see it as an insult when people call me a fascist or call NatSoc fascism.

Love your nation (group of genetically similar people) not your government (close to 100% of all governments in power are not for the nation).
Most law is convoluted to be confusing and is against the common man. Throwing up a class based society by allowing the corrupt to become an aristocracy is not a good base for even a monarchy if that is your thing.

Communism is a completely different system of beliefs with a different objective and different axioms. It cannot be reconciled or compared to any form of fascism, let alone natsoc, without being intellectualky dishonest.
As for the others I withold judgement as I am not as familiar, but I assume much of the same is the case.

You haven't explained what makes fascism and natsoc irreconcilable. Way I see it, fascism is a philosophy on how to run a state. Natsoc takes that, and provides a specific state (Germany) and purpose for that state (prosperity of the German volk).

So is NatSoc and fascism too.
I think i have made quite a good attempt in the thread.

Well, if you have, great - but the thread is very long and, frankly, difficult to read. Can you sum the argument up in a concise paragraph?

If your point is that fascism subserves the people to the state, and natsoc the state to the people, I will point you to the case I made above:
Fascism, as OP describes it, is method. Italian fascism and German natsoc are action - method put into practice. A method on its own is fairly meaningless, it needs a purpose. Italian fascism is distinct from German natsoc quite clearly, yes, but the core approach to turning a goal, a purpose, into reality is similar.

Meant for

I have made a lot of smaller posts. Just click on my ID and look at them.

Genuinely Interested. Do you have a link to a source?

Would actually like to know the religious demographic that voted the most for Hitler, cause as far as I know Hitler was actually baptized as a Catholic.

If i would give a short is that most people nowadays mistake fascism for neo-spenglerism which is closer to NatSoc but still not NatSoc. And fascism (genuine) and NatSoc have very little in common.

So….Is Natsoc and Fascism a means to an end but not an actually end in themselves?

So what would be the eventually end goal, what form of government would supersede them?

For fascism the corporate state is the end goal.
For NatSoc the end goal is the wellbeing of the folk and keeping the blood pure. The means to this end can only be decided by the racesouls myth and this varies with time.

Ok, I understand Fascism, that is cleat-cut enough.

However…….

This mysticism surrounding Natsoc seems absolutely ridiculous


Like really? Wtf is that? Sounds like crazy talk user

Honestly, Hitler was a dictator, pure and simple. Not that there is anything wrong with that at all.

Reality being that Hitler would have established a dynasty if he ever managed to bear a child with Eva Braun. Very similar to Rome, he would have been a German Augustus.

His fondest for the past is well known, his reintroduction of the military standard is proof of that. The Nazi Salute, is for all intends and purposes, the Roman Salute rehashed. He would have fashioned himself as an Emperor given time.

He would have been a modern Caesar.

It's the opposite you collossal christcuck retard.

Point 19 of the nsdap program:
We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

You need to read up on thing so you dont post stupid shit like that.

archive.org/details/GottfriedFederTheGermanStateOnANationalAndSocialistFoundation
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archive.org/details/MemoirsOfAlfredRosenberg
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They are, saying socio-economic policies don't matter is retarded. To disregard the writings of Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile when describing fascism is just wrong.

Not him, but it would be something of an equivalent to 'the American dream'.
For America the end goal, place of wellbeing, for a long time was quantifiable to the middle class. A wife, a house with a pickett fence, two point five children, two cars, a cat and/or dog.

0/10, but I'll give an explanation for newfags
The king was popular, there wasn't much he could do without becoming a pariah. Yeah it had a bunch of kikes, at the time though the kikes that joined the fascist party were those loyal to the italian government so Mussolini figured they would stay loyal to him.


Thanks the king for that, the officer corps were made up of people who got picked due to names, money and kissing the kings ass.
When the Italian soldiers were under German officer's command in africa they preformed very well.

I disagree, the corperate state is a goal, but the main goal is national revival. For Italy it was restoration of the Roman Empire and making Italy a major power, just as with Spain Primo de Rivera wanted to restore the Spanish Empire.

Its simple, protestants voted for him even though he was a catholic and the NSDAP was a Munich-based party. Catholics at the time (and still are) more conservative and voted for the conservative party of the day (Center Party I believe, it was pretty much the catholic party)

Hitler was setting himself up to be an Augustus, he knew it himself. One cannot ignore the massive cult of personality surrounding the man.

In time, I had no doubt Hitler would have even fashioned an aristocracy from the elite of the NSDAP. If he wasn't already by the time the war was over.

Thank you user

Forgot the name of the battalion that served with Rommel, he said they performed as good as the German troops under his guidance.

You achieve national revival via the corporate state.
All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

he modeled the SS on the British aristocracy, so yes

You obviously missed the whole point so read it again plus the other books.
Are you fucking retarded?

Hitler and Religion
This well sourced vid explains Hitlers religion (he was a Deist) and had generally anti-christian views.

In the words of the big man himself: "Our social welfare system is much more than just charity. Because we do not say
to the rich people: please give something to the poor. Instead we say German people,
help yourself. Everyone must help, whether you are rich or poor. Everyone must
have the belief that there's always someone in a much worse situation than I am, and this person I want to help as a comrade. If you shall say yes, but how much do I have to sacrifice? That is the glory of giving! When you sacrifice for your
community, then you a can walk with your head held up high."

also, what's with all the tumblr photos?

Iron March

No, just don't feel like typing.

And I'll admit I don't give two flying fucks about german law faggot nigger

Your post comes at the perfect time. I was wandering this just this week.

One of the tools pro capitalists/lolbertarians use against comunist economics ( a justified one) is that every communist / socialist system ends up in breadlines. The same cannot be said for the NSDAP economic system, as history shows Adolf turned the weinar republic from ruins to an economically succesful greater Germany.

The main argument against NS is the 6 gorillion, but no word on why its wrong from its economic standpoint.

What are the economics of Nationalist Socialism OP?

So stop saying shit like
and fuck off back to 4chan

"Hitler and the Nazi party promoted "Positive Christianity",a movement which rejected most traditional Christian doctrines such as the Apostles' Creed"


Fuck off nigger, I'll say whatever the fuck I like. Go reads some of those books yourself 4channer scum. To stupid to realize that their is some synchronicity to history.

The work that everybody is called on to supply cannot be judged by its objective value. Everyone has only one duty: to take trouble. Whoever does this duty becomes, by doing so, indispensable to the community — whether it is something that only he can do, or that’s within the capacities of anyone. Otherwise the man who achieves something important, the effect of which can be felt for decades, or even for centuries, would have a right to puff himself up and despise the man who sweeps the streets. – Adolf Hitler

To understand National Socialist economics, it is first necessary to realize that communism has the same goal as capitalism, and that it is this goal which is morally unacceptable. Believing in the primacy of the consumer, these economies are based around the economic problem of maximizing human wants attained by the exploitation of limited resources. The only disagreement between these and various other non-Aryan economic theories regards how better to accomplish their shared goal, usually based on whether a top-down or bottom-up feedback circuit is more effective. National Socialist economics differs fundamentally from all of these by refusing to treat consumption, and hence productivity, as valuable in itself.

Instead, we view economic activity as remedial in character. Production is justified on the grounds that it provides unwanted but necessary material remedies to problems that if left unattended will prevent us from fulfilling our purpose. For example, we do not want to be hungry, yet hunger is an unfortunate biological reality, therefore we quite literally take the trouble to produce food in order to remedy the problem of hunger (that we nonetheless would prefer never existed in the first place). But the moment we forget that food is a remedy to hunger and start thinking of hunger as a mechanism that allows us to enjoy food, we fall back into the consumerist mindset.

Directed Economy

It is the high task of our national economy to direct the consumption power of our people along lines which can be satisfied out of the resources of our own national production. - Adolf Hitler

A National Socialist economy is not centrally planned, but centrally directed. Central planning involves taking demand for granted and then using the state to regulate supply. Central direction involves determining adequate supply and then using the state to limit demand. Hence a National Socialist economy should not be confused with a mixed-market economy, which is a fundamentally capitalist economy with state intervention in subservience to implicitly capitalist values. Hitler himself had no role in micromanaging the economy of National Socialist Germany, but rather was responsible for preventing the economy (and hence those who would seek to manipulate it by investments) from leading astray the state.

A National Socialist government guarantees zero unemployment by making it duty of the state to assign a living-wage job to anyone and everyone who wants one. Private businesses, whose task is not to put people to work but to be a reliable provider of their professed products/services, are justified in not hiring more employees than they need to provide their product/service in the required quantity (and no more than this quantity). It therefore falls upon the state to create public works projects – typically in infrastructure, community service or any other field that passively benefits the country as a whole - capable of absorbing all the workers that the private sector cannot absorb, as demonstrated in the Reichsarbeitsdienst and related programs of National Socialist Germany. Note that such assignment should never be compulsory upon anyone, but merely be an offer that is always open. This is not to say that community-minded private businesses cannot also help absorb the unemployed – they could readily do so (and would be actively encouraged to do so by a National Socialist government) by splitting each full-time job into two or more part-time jobs for corresponding fractions of full-time wages until all competent workers have been absorbed. It is mindblowingly simple when you think about it.

Hitler warned that: “The basis of Jewish commercial policy is to make matters incomprehensible for a normal brain.” Certainly, Jewish collective success throughout history has consistently correlated with the economic complexity of the society involved, hence the ZC propaganda throughout the colonial era to convince the complex economic societies of their “superiority” over the more economically simple (so-called “Third World”) societies that they colonized, in order to discourage the former from learning from the latter. In opposition to this, a National Socialist economy consciously aims to be as simple as possible, both in production and in trade. An economy that is too complex to be understood by non-experts is too complex, and it is the responsibility of the state not only to prevent the national economy from becoming more complex than is necessary, but moreover to constantly seek ways to simplify it further.

The importance of an encompassing state policy is highlighted by our insistence on a viewing economy and demography as two elements of the same issue. The state’s economic role is not merely to divert non-Aryan instincts and urges of the existing population in the required direction, but to feed a demographic policy to improve the Aryan quality of the population. Therefore, the National Socialist economy is best viewed as a means towards an end – a life-support system to keep the patient’s body running while the doctor operates on it.

If social activity signifies private enterprise for the purpose of individual salvation from spiritual and material collapse, then socialism signifies the safeguarding of the individual essence carried through by a collective, or in entire communities, from every exploitation of their work. – Alfred Rosenberg

The idea that a national economy needs to constantly grow in order to be healthy is insane. Economic growth implies more consumption, which in turn implies either increasing indulgence by the same number of people or an increasing number of people (or both), neither of which are positives. A healthy national economy from the National Socialist perspective is simply an economy where nobody is hungry or homeless or otherwise in fear over their imminent future, and where nobody is in debt to anybody else.

As such, a National Socialist economy is not dependent upon an ever-expanding population to keep it running, and indeed is one of the few economic forms equipped to work with a population that reduces over time, so long as such reduction occurs in a controlled way under absolute state supervision. Whereas labour surplus forces employees to compete for jobs, which leads to lower wages and worse working conditions, labour scarcity forces employers to compete for employees, which means higher wages and better working conditions, therefore it is our aim to actively promote labour scarcity. Specifically, a National Socialist economy would focus on reducing new births more steeply than the rate at which natural resources are running out, thereby maintaining quality of life by ensuring that there is enough to go around for everyone. This makes it the best response to impending crises such as Peak Oil. Our current economic hardship is not due to reduction in economic activity, but due to the failure – indeed the absence of any state-directed plan – to synchronize it with reduction in economic complexity, such as via compulsory termination of unnecessary industries. If we have a heavily loaded car short on fuel, do we use up the remaining fuel to search for more fuel, or do we lighten the load?

In a National Socialist economy, phenomena such as deflation and recession would be celebrated as positive events, because falling prices would only imply that products are being produced more cheaply than before, and reduction in economic activity would only imply that products are bring produced with greater labour-efficiency than before, or that demand for certain products has decreased. These would then permit either greater leisure, or (better yet) faster depopulation, all without lessening quality of life.

Class Cooperation

All work which is necessary ennobles him who performs it. - Adolf Hitler

The economy should be viewed in a light no different than any other of our means to accomplishing a purpose. Our motto, UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY, is based on the same spirit of cooperation in pursuit of a final goal, as a prerequisite to which the folk must have total unity, including economic unity. Under such a worldview, class becomes merely a differentiation of occupational skills, with no social status or egotistical prestige pertaining to it. The steering wheel of a car is not higher or lower in status than the road wheels; nor is the engine more or less prestigious than the fuel tank; what matters is the ability of the car to complete its journey, which depends on the cooperation of all mechanical parts essential for this function. Thus the very notion of “class conflict” becomes as absurd as the notion of the different parts of the same vehicle declaring war on one another – all it would accomplish is disabling the entire vehicle and preventing arrival at our destination.

An end to class prestige is reflected in practice by minimizing the gap between profit margins of the various occupations, so that profit becomes solely a function of the quality of work, and not of the genre of work. For example, an excellent doctor deserves to earn more than a mediocre doctor, but there is no reason why an excellent doctor should earn more than an equivalently excellent plumber.

The folkish state will have to arrive at a basically different attitude toward the concept of labor. It will, if necessary, even by education extending over centuries, have to break with the mischief of despising physical activity. On principle it will have to evaluate the individual man not according to the type of work he does but according to the form and quality of his achievement. This may appear positively monstrous to an era in which the most brainless columnist, just because he works with the pen, seems superior to the most intelligent precision mechanic. This false estimation, as has been said, does not lie in the nature of things, but is artificially cultivated and formerly did not exist. –Adolf Hitler

There has been a tendency to try and identify the SS as the most important ‘esoteric-type’ organization of the Reich – as some sort of ‘mystical’ organization which embodied the principles of National-Socialism in a higher form. This tendency shows a basic mis-understanding of National-Socialism, the SS itself, and in particular what National-Socialist Germany was. The SS was a warrior organization, with an Aryan warrior ethos, and as such exemplified some of the highest Aryan ideals. … But other organizations embodied other Aryan ideals, and all of them together were necessary and vital for a healthy, balanced society to be achieved. The SS was a vital and necessary part of the practical organic whole that was National-Socialist Germany. – David Myatt

Only the parts altogether superfluous to the purpose need be phased out, and it is the responsibility of the state to direct this. We can broadly distinguish between jobs aimed at satisfying demand and jobs aimed at stimulating demand, of which the latter have no place in a National Socialist economy.

Correspondingly, the success of a National Socialist economy is measured not by the quantity or variety of its activity, but by the labour-efficiency of its activity, and by its independence from external economic forces. If the measure of consumerist economic success is like measuring how fast a car can go or how many gadgets it has, the measure of National Socialist economic success would be like measuring how well it is moving itself towards the finish line. The fastest and most gadget-packed car is no good if the driver is lost or can be intimidated to drive in the wrong direction.

Money

From the deluge is born a new world, while the Pharisees whine about their miserable pennies! The liberation of humanity from the curse of gold stands before us! – Dietrich Eckart

Money has been described variously as a medium of exchange, a measure of value, a store of value, and a method of deferred payment. However, a National Socialist economy strictly defines money as a measure of productivity. In Hitler’s words, “If a farmer should ask me what is the value of the goods that he produces, I should reply, the value of the work that they enable a town labourer to do.”

Such a definition of money necessarily rejects the backing of currency by gold, silver or any other physical material. Material-backed currency by definition submits itself to dependence on the quantity of the material in existence, and to entanglement with currencies of other economies backed by the same material. For example, a currency backed by gold would find its unit value changing as a result of a new gold mine being discovered, even if the gold mine were located in Israel another country! This is unacceptable to a National Socialist state which insists on total monetary independence, and on foreign trade by barter only. Between 1933 and 1936, National Socialist Germany’s gold reserves decreased from 937 million to 72 million Reichsmarks, the difference having gone to purchase raw materials of real economic value from a labour perspective; in that same period unemployment was wiped out.

Labour-backed currency alone precludes any shortages or excesses of money in circulation, as the quantity of money in circulation would never have any justifiable reason to be other than directly proportional to the quantity of production within the country. What happens in other countries henceforth becomes economically irrelevant to a National Socialist state. Conversely, a National Socialist state can never be plausibly blamed by other countries for manipulating their economies, as it has explicitly relinquished all means by which it could do so. Like the Neolithic Aryan subsistence farmer who grows all his own food and to whom gold coins are a meaningless idea, so a National Socialist economy that attains what Hitler called “national subsistence” can feel confident about its economic future and earn the trust of others in a way that the gold-bound states can never know.

What each of us receives must first have been produced by another; no one can receive more than the others have produced. Thus the problem of currency is no artificial one, but merely a question of production, a question of the organization of work and of the distribution of the results of work. – Adolf Hitler

Furthermore, a National Socialist economy must be one that prevents monetary gain through lease or financial speculation of any kind, which is always reducible to the Jewish idea of profit by possession, the principle behind usury whose mathematically certain conclusion is concentration of all money in the economy under the ownership of the usurers. (“The reason why the Jews and their fabrications find such credence becomes apparent if you take a look at a country like Switzerland. In that country, Tom has milk interests, Dick follows the prices of the grain market, and Harry exports watches.” – Adolf Hitler) The advantage of a labour-backed currency in this case is that it prevents usurers from disguising their gains behind inflation or other temporal distortions. In a National Socialist state, identification of usurers will be a trivial matter of spotting non-producers who are able to remain solvent.

How could money multiply itself? – Alfred Rosenberg

The essential cause of the stability of our currency was to be sought for in our concentration camps. The currency remains stable when the speculators are put under lock and key. – Adolf Hitler

The principle that labour should only be employed where necessary in a National Socialist economy completes our understanding of the role of its money. This strictly rejects any use of labour in the production of unnecessary commodities or of any commodity in excessive quantities. The people’s primary concern is assisting in the ennoblement of themselves and others, not producing commodities with which to derive maximum pleasure. A National Socialist economy does not merely oppose excess and espouse moderation, but opposes the very core of consumerism, thereby espousing frugality in all aspects of daily life as an Aryan ideal in its own right.

I have read them and thats why i dont claim retarded shit as you do.

This is also very good
ia801308.us.archive.org/7/items/GottfriedFederTheGermanStateOnANationalAndSocialistFoundation/Gottfried Feder - The German State on a National and Socialist Foundation.pdf

I said the exact opposite of that, user. Read again. OP discusses method. Natsoc takes that method - or something very similar - and applies it to achieve a goal, which is integral to it.

No wonder the synagogue of Satan put the world against them, they made being an asshole economically impractical. They made social status based more on character than position or possession. They wouldn't allow consumerism.

I want out of this Berenstain shithole of a timeline.

Socialist economics simply do not work in the long term. Sooner or later, you need to free the markets for private enterprise. Socialism simply cannot work long term as an economic system. If hitler and the nazis were to have succeeded, and gotten all the jews out, and created a powerful white ethnostate…they would've eventually had to open up to free markets and entrepreneurship. Nationalist ideals would still be in place. All work would benefit the country, that's the motivation. In order to grow economically and prevent the eventual inevitable long term decline that is prevalent in ALL socialist economies, capitalism needs to take hold.

It needs to start as a fascist dictatorial state to remove jewry, and after that…free markets must be implemented before the inevitable failure of socialism begins to erode the grand state that was erected.

lurk more

I don't see why it's an inevitably. There is no hyperinflation in this model, as affects those countries that still trade outside for basic needs. Regardless there is a minimum and maximum to the value of the money here. The mininum amount of food that must be grown to sustain the population, compared to everyone making something with a mininum of administration.
It lasted for quite a while despite a war. Given its queerness compared to communism and consumerism I think it futile to speculate its natural lifespan in a non-total war setting. This wasn't a running bull or a blindered horse, but a sheep dog. The government guides the sheep to green pasture, then pushes on before erosion occures.

Captitalism too can not last. Trust-busting, monopoly breaking, these are necessary lest you end with corporatism. Corrections are inevitable for any economy.

But Positive Christianity was a joke. He only used it to get christians to be more nazi friendly

national libertarianism doesn't exist

bump

Saved

Yockey, Spengler, and Evola never denied race, they simply denied the idea of biological reductionism - that is, the idea that biology alone is what constitutes a race.

Furthermore, the idea that Fascism =/= NatSoc is flawed; they're based on the same worldview; and the fellows over at IM pretty much use them interchangeably.

Yockey's thoughts on race is so fundamentally different from a NatSoc way that according to NatSoc he denies race.
Their worldviews has literally nothing in common.
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Quality thread, have a bump.


Didn't understand the second pic. Where do the labels on the top right go? What do they refer to?

A cousin is not a sister; a tiger is not a lion.

I think it's ironic that they don't want to reduce race to biology but they reduce and equalize National Socialism and the various forms of Fascism.

Always avoided Evola because I'd heard he was 'esoteric bullshit' and associated him with /fringe/
nigger makes some good points.

I avoid Evola because of "traditionalism" not because it's esoteric (can't even call it esoteric).

What is wrong with traditionalism, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
modernity a fuck.

And that's why. That mentality is just Reactionary.

This is why socialism never works. Morons write policies about areas that they know nothing about. Money lending is not a get-rich-quick scheme, but a legitimate business that directs capital to the areas of the economy that need it the most. Free market banking is very risky and both profits and losses can be very high or very low depending on the sector of the economy. The line that all the money would magically end up in the hands of the lenders assumes that they have no competition, that nobody is allowed to open up a bank and that there is no risk involved. A very ignorant statement. God help us if socialists with such views ever get into power.

your nose is showing

You have changed the discussion from "usury" (implying) to conspiracy, which is a seperate issue, that is not at all unique to the business sector. You are a socialist and your ignorance about basic market mechanisms is showing.

I thought kikes were good with maths but you proved me wrong.

Never considered alot of this shit.
Dayum

It's like "don't you realize everyone uses their freedom to pursue degeneracy!" Of course this explains why the most free societies that have ever existed have created almost all the important art and science.

"One Dimensional Man" by H. Marcuse is an incredibly salient read, given this thread. Highly recommend.

taxation is theft
welfare, public healthcare and public education will inevitably degrade and become a propaganda and state control tool - the same way as communism
the only thing that taxes should fund is minimal government, judicial system and a strong army - this will bring prosperity
fuck off statists

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The labels are radiating from the center of the pic; it's saying that Italian Fascism German NatSoc, etc all come from a same Truth, they just approach it in different ways.

This "Cosmic Truth" is such a bad and sad attempt to gain support.

This seems like the correct place to ask: I've been seeing this screenshot about how the Nazi economy was a house of cards and didn't actually work, yet I cannot refute it. Can any kind user help me refute it?

Sounds like he has just read "The Wages of Destruction" which can be discredited immediately simply by the fact that it claims that germany used corporatism and that they invaded Russia for economical reasons.
The book is basically an economist that is trying to figure out germany's economy using (((historical sources))) and not knowing anything about work-based money and abolishment of interest.
Nothing of what he points out make any sense for a system that germany had.
Sure the part where he talks about that a single person could have multiple positions and that the positions change proportional to Hitler relationship with them can solely be blamed on the war and the fact that Hitler was a active military leader and didn't have time to manage the reich and the war so he appointed people he could trust even though they might not have made the best job.
Simply the fact that (((they))) made everything in thier power to get another war with germany is enough to convinced me that Germany did something right.

Just the fact that an economist (the author of the book that is) is trying to describe/understand a political and militarily event via economics is cringeworthy and laughable.
It's like listening to a lolberg argue. They simply have no understanding of the real world. All they "understand" and care about is their theoretical world of economy.

Many thanks! Tooze also talks about pure numbers in production of tanks, aircraft, etc, and makes the case Germany could never have won due to the massive disparity in industrial output. What are your thoughts on this?

Germany went with quality instead of quantity but yeah i agree that Germany would have a hard time in a war of nutrition, which never, that was never their plan to have in the first place.
But you also have historians like Irving that claim that Germany would have won if the war went on for another year.

I agree, but if it was not for America entering the war (and the massive spike of Lend-Lease after its entry), the entirety of the Soviet Union would have starved, and the Soviets would easily have lost.
Eh, kind of. Germany's economy was 40% larger than the Soviets in 1941, and in 1942 Germany had 5.44 times the coal production of the Soviet Union as well as 3.5 times the steel production of the Soviets. The reason why this didn't translate to tank production was two-fold:
The entry of the United States meant that millions of tons of food, metals (such as aluminum engines), trucks, clothing, and aircraft meant that the Soviets nearly only had to focus on producing a limited amount of types of equipment. In addition, the Soviets focused on producing up to 3 tanks at a time, whereas the German's: 20, in addition to time-extensive proceadures that ensured a bit of luxury for the crew, but not luxury for Division commanders who needed more tanks. The German's also never invested into high tech manufacturies (like the US did, nor did they build much heavy machinery.
Here are some sources:
youtu.be/N6xLMUifbxQ?t=26m13s
whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/lend.html

The soviets produced twice the amount of tanks and had almost 3 times the manpower. And if you are going to win vs those odds you need to go with quality over quantity..
And that includes everything from officers and the leaders general strategy tiny details like optics in a tank and so forth.

Socialism is about cucking the best whites for the benefit of the worst whites.

It is the slow road to hell.

Use some context, friend. The Soviets couldn't produce those numbers if it wasn't for the US. As for Quality over Quantity, If the Germans had settled for a design and stuck with it, it wouldve taken them very far. The problem was again: not having a lot of heavy machinery/advanced factories, not having 1 or 2 tanks that the factories could pump out and would greatly aid German logistics.

Im nott even sure what we are disagreeing on.

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me neither bump