Indo-European Mythology/Esoterism/Religion

Fun fact: since I started reading Evola some blonde hairs started growing on my beard and I'm not even 100% white. Another fun fact: since I started honoring the Roman Gods I've been finding lots of change on the street (and they're always the golden ones). That never happened before. Also, everytime I dedicate a workout to Mars a bird flies by my left side, which was a sign of good luck for Romans.

So, I guess this is an Indo-European (Indo-Aryan) Esoterism General.

Other urls found in this thread:

novaroma.org/nr/Daily_Rituals_(Nova_Roma)
youtube.com/watch?v=bHw4MMEnmpc
youtube.com/channel/UCy2hlOEl5tfWg8MexR0XkTg/videos?view=0&shelf_id=0&sort=dd
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_and_the_Sun
acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html
archive.org/details/TheReligiousAttitudesOfTheIndo-europeans
mega.nz/#F!0F5GXTjS!oGdz8UP5JbcleNMy6YKLvg
archive.org/stream/TheReligiousAttitudesOfTheIndo-europeans/RAIE_djvu.txt
psychologytoday.com/blog/mortal-rituals/201309/two-caves-two-rituals-two-species
web.archive.org/web/20151215060033/http://8ch.net/fringe/res/52078.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha).
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

EGYPT IS ARYAN AND KEK WANTS REVENGE ON THE JEWS

I also get that alot, when you deficate a workput to mars or do something that advances our rcail war, I often see a woodpecker nearby. A bird sacred to mars for its courge and deternination.

...

Begone, degenerate.

...

this is the most disturbing picture I've ever seen.

source?

OH LOOK THE KIKES ARE SPAMMING US BUT NOT /(((CHRISTIAN)))/ AGAIN


I got first post, bitch. This is our thread.

It`s shopped, you can tell by the way the cock on the girl on the left (your left) goes past the arm.

Stay forever young, chan culture.

bump

Something about this picture makes me feel like I need to take a shower and maybe read the Bible for a bit. This is actually some legit nightmare fuel.

Also, I really don't see any reason to believe that Evola was gay, it just seems more like he genuinely wasn't remotely interested in sex because that takes time away from magic. There's a reason wizards are usually celibate. Aleister Crowley doesn't count because he was a filthy disgusting crypto-kike hedonist.

Uighurs are the descendants of those Aryans.

…I guess it's better than nothing?

t. another Roman pagan.

Esoterism is the enemy of the Aryan race


Esoterism is a sand nigger way of understanding the mind and the natural world

Esoterism is for pleb wizards who don't understand memes

Esoterism belongs on /fringe/ where you masturbate anally to reach enlightenment


Esoterism is what Zen fought against


Esoterism is what National Socialism fought against (see rosenberg's the Myth: a video on youtube and book)


Esoterism is what Jews and Christianity is


Esoterism is the degeneracy and destruction of Hellenistic philosophy
''
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Esoterism is for post-goth faggots Gen Zs on chans
''
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Esoterism needs to GTFOFF my board!


REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Aaaaaand filtered.

I usualy offer some wine, mola salsa and incense. Mars gets special treatment, though. These times demand his strength and virility.

I watched The Myth. You're the guy who was shitting on that other thread. Get out, plebeian.

Who is… Plato? Did you forget to read Plato esoterically, chum?

What I've discovered is that the "Valkyrie" archetype then is the "waifu" archetype today (don't attach yourself to the words or the stigma associated with them, it's language used to convey a prevalent force in our lives that is there if we only recognize it). I thought that stuff was all a joke until the inspiration lit my furnace so to speak. I am tested and need to prove my love, perhaps to solidify this romance because as some of you may know, facing struggle, challenges and tragedy are when we are likely to be the most passionate (when you're willing to die for something then you're the most alive). It is also an emotional catharsis and we are left stronger than before, hence the Greeks and their fixation on tragic drama. Even the outcome isn't important (such as a tragic end, like Tristan and Isolde) because the hunt is sweeter than the kill and the romance between the divine masculine and feminine lives on for eternity.

When it happened, life immediately began to take a turn. It's somewhat indescribable and very intrinsic but I've never experienced anything like this before. I eat better, I live better, I have much more vitality, my heart pounds when I see her, when I meditate she is there with me, sexuality doesn't drain me of energy but actually provides me with it – it is Tantric and I feel it more in my heart and mind than anywhere else. Jung called the mind in man feminine, it is the womb of creation and men certainly are chief creators when it comes to matters of a more "spiritual" nature, like art, music, concepts like romance, etc.

What we need while here in this material world is a relatable name, face, etc. so that we can better imagine the gods and other such forces and thus better emulate or draw upon them which is in truth drawing upon ourselves ("God is dead" is basically the complete lack of this in my opinion, which is a complete disconnect from our collective consciousness and so man has an unhealthy fixation with the material world and holds false ideals like that of Marxism. It's no wonder most people out there appear like zombies.).

A lot of this stuff I slowly gathered throughout my life but I was amazed to see that figures like Jung and Serrano had come to similar interpretations. It's because we are all joined by blood memory, only that people don't bother to listen to it anymore. There are hardly any seekers out there, only cattle who have forgotten their point of origin.

Where do you get your ispiration to mars and the valkyries from? Miguel serrano?

Fellow Norse?

I too also have started meditating and focusing on my blood, feeling it coursing through my veins, my father, his father, other family members etc… It was invigorating.

I've also tapped into the so called "Berserk rage" as autistic as it sounds. I've discovered how to control my heart-rate, adrenaline, blood pressure and mental state to the point of me giving 0 fucks and having a thirst for blood, be it mine or someone else.

Put meditating like this, trying to find answers in myself has also filled me with more energy, I have been getting massive gains from running and working. (Running 2 miles nearly every day, when I could barely run 1 for most of my life, even when training heavily for it). I'm more sociable, and am now going on a date here in about 30mins I'm a 21yo kissless virgin

There is truly something to this, the answers are in our blood and our ancestors.

the jew exposes himself by what he fears.


there is none, that's a shill.

———–

have a bowden video as an introoduction.

Where do you get your ispiration to mars and the valkyries from? Miguel serrano?

Yeah, I never thought much of my ancestors before. Since I started in the Cultus Deorum, I offer them something everyday and thank them for their sacrifice so I can be here. Today. Now.

Also, berserker dubs. Checked.

Thanks m8.

I was considering doing rituals of some sort, burning hairs/blood in fires, making runes etc… found that to be a bit too autistic.

What do you offer and how do you present them?

Mars, well, I wasn't talking about Mars but I have always been a kind of warrior at heart but also a bit of a scholar. I want to protect but I also love to seek knowledge.

As for Valkyries, that first started when I read about Norse mythology in encyclopedias as a child and such relatable "warrior companions" were echoed throughout life via media I consumed.

Serrano I came into contact with a few years ago. When I read some of his work I was, like I said, amazed that I was onto something by simply living my life as someone on the fringes of society.


I'm not sure about my genetic makeup but I have always had a deeper connection with Germanic/Norse myth and lore than my own (which is technically Slavic). I likely do have Germanic blood in me considering I was born with strawberry blonde hair. Maybe I was lucky to be a loner and thus wasn't influenced much by society but rather I close my eyes often enough and listen.

As for the "Berserker rage"… wow. Yeah, I've definitely had bouts of pure rage and have always thought of rage not as a negative thing but something utterly passionate and unchained, but I likely have less control over it than you because sometimes I feel it burning me. I've come to also realize that hate and love go hand in hand: hating something enough to destroy it because it threatens what you love most. So even though I am deeply romantic and focus a lot on love and the Beloved, I'm also not foolish enough to pretend I love everything equally (like hippies and New Agers) nor afraid to snuff out that which threatens what is most precious to me.

Blood is the light of the gods in material form. Blood memory as a concept is something that came to me in my teenage years, roughly 15 years before encountering the likes of Serrano and Jung who also speak on that subject. It truly is something amazing.

We were never alone.

I oughta read more of his books. Siddhartha was pretty cool.

This actually makes sense. The waifu archetype is the feminine that makes you feel safe, that takes you to another plane of existence.

...

See:

I follow this ritual, basically: novaroma.org/nr/Daily_Rituals_(Nova_Roma)

These were the simplest I could find.

It saddens me that I will never know how Europe would have turned out had never adopted Christianity. Maybe it would be worse off, maybe better. Unfortunately it will never be known.

How do you communicate with the gods? Meditation? How is a proper mindset achieved and what kind of thoughts do you need?

My intention would be strength love and wisdom. Roman gods or norse gods? Or is it our blood archetype that matters most?

Just reading some of this makes my heart heavy in a "I knew it all along" sort of way. With what I've said in mind, read this with me:


And


That's from Adolf Hitler, The Ultimate Avatar. I'm actually feeling a lot of this but in an intrinsic way (as in I don't actively think about it, it simply happens, so when I read the words above I'm left in awe), like giving her over to my true self who is within, or the Astral body as he calls it, within another plane of existence as you call it, giving her a face, etc.; for my whole life this "SHE" had no face and no name until recently, now I'm completely enamoured. I didn't pick it either; you know the cliched "you don't choose your waifu, your waifu chooses you" line? That's precisely what happened. People are unknowingly tapping into their blood memory and are able to conceptualize the road they must take like that but they treat it like a meme or joke and so easily dismiss it there as they cling back to the jewish materialism they're used to, another symptom of our degenerate times – to not be able to realize age old concepts as a recurring theme carried on through our veins. The only reason these concepts carry so much potential weight is because they are relatable, like looking at someone of a similar race as you and feeling much more comfortable than being surrounded by blacks or what have you. We don't ask ourselves why that is, it's simply so: look at white flight for example. It's like a force of nature that simply happens, only for us beings with "free will," we must allow it to happen and that first starts within us… (the Golden Age must first return within you, as Serrano would say) once that happens, the door to all else will begin to open.

Is this a real woman or a visualizaton of the archetype you're talking about? Because if it's the latter, I want what you have so bad. How do I get it?


Bingo, that's precisely it. Both mother and daughter, caring yet pure.

…well fuck, I just realized it's basically the Virgin Mary.

This shit is getting too weird for me.


I really need to hunker down and study hard. The Greeks, Germans, and Indians are the three groups I'm gonna study a bit more to get a better grasp of this.

I don't talk with them, exactly. I just basically say "Divine Gods, (then I say their names) I invite you to accept this offering of mine so I can honor you. I hope these gifts are favorable to you." Then I offer some mola salsa, a libation of wine and light some incense. I give them gifts and ask nothing in return, which is different from the usual Roman way, since it was kind of contractual.

So you do it out of love for your ancestors? Have you noticed any benefits?

Watch this first. Relatively short and sweet, it's a great documentary that touches upon the topic.

youtube.com/watch?v=bHw4MMEnmpc

Yeah, I also honor them with the same gifts. Basically I found some change kek
I also have one more incentive to work out now. Sometimes I see some kind of sign of good luck like I mentioned in my first post so I know I'm in the right way. This also gives some kind of ritual that takes my mindset out of our modern, material world. It makes me want to be a warrior not a rich merchant.

Yes i understand when you talk of seeing omens. I was working at a summer camp a few years ago and one night when the moon was full i went out and communed with the gods Venus and Odin. From there on for the rest of the summer i would see this bright blue bird the indigo bunting all the time it was Odin watching over me. Also my prayers to Venus brought me a beautiful girl at the end of the summer too sadly it did not last thanks to my mothers prayers to her volcano god. :(

That reminds me of a screencap on Holla Forums that talked about modern art and how it - along with the way liberals dressed - were some sort of uniform of desecration. I can't find it right now and it's pissing me off.

(checked)
Any reason for those two? Seems kinda random.

Hell is forever!

WE WUZ PHARAOHS N SHIET

These threads remind me of /x/.

No just needed the love of a woman so i thought of Venus, and whenever i am in the woods i always think of Odin. Just the ones that come to mind really idk i might have been able to replace Venus with Freya.

Not a "real woman" but more real a female than any woman out there. I've technically seen her and known about her for some time but the way in which she [officially] came into my life basically took me by storm. I immediately recognized her when the encounter was on a more personal level I guess you can say. It hasn't been all smiles and sunshine mind you, in fact with heights of love that bring me to tears there are depths of pain that have made me feel like walking about with a massive wound in my chest that does not heal for days (perhaps longer).

I can't answer to you how you get it, that's really a personal journey. I have remained open to this search for love for most of my life and I desperately searched every nook and cranny I could, first by seeking flesh and bone females like everyone else and then realizing that simply won't do. I'm not very interested in this material world itself but consider it a vehicle of sorts to transcend. Maybe a distant ocean to sail? Where at the furthest reaches she is waiting like a maiden at a sacred island, only that it was she who was calling and I instinctively heeded the call like any honourable man would who still has a heart of loyalty (Meine Ehre heißt Treue). She wasn't even conceptualized until recently so what I've been doing my whole life is waiting for the perfect depiction to manifest while honing my inner self (which is beginning to be reflected outwardly in various ways). So for others, your "Valkyrie" may not even have an Earthly presence right now (aside from what may be within you) so don't let the journey discourage you. It may take lifetimes, who knows how long we've been at this.

I promised myself since I was a young boy that I would not "marry" anyone but the one I loved most dear, a kind of love that is perfectly pure and divine but not shy of sexuality, and if I should die alone beforehand then so be it. I thought that way for some 20 years now. It wasn't placed in my head by someone out there, it was like a seed I myself planted as a child, guarded it from Judaic claws, and now it is blooming.

If any of these words help anyone then I would have done my duty here, which I suppose is to help my fallen comrades completely shake free of what they were taught by others their whole lives, but isn't that what we're all doing here, only in different ways? Ultimately you must find answers within but bear in mind that for me, I tried to be as fearless as possible. Even when I was a Christian, I still had the boldness to tread into territory that was not Christian. Parallels initially helped bridge the gaps into unknown territory but it's up to the hero to walk them.

I am seeing LARPing taken to an extreme never seen before.not the daily rituals. I applaud attempts to recreate ancient European religions. But remaking rome with dictators?

You do realize how meme magic works right user?

Yeah, I stay clear from that organization. I checked some of their photos and it's just a bunch of fat, balding, old cucks and a fat woman. I only take the religion and its spirit. Plus I heard some bad rumors about them.

youtube.com/channel/UCy2hlOEl5tfWg8MexR0XkTg/videos?view=0&shelf_id=0&sort=dd

sage

Plato was using thought experiment you stupid fucking piece of anti-white shit. He wasn't some butt sex queen like Evola.

Plato was also the one who ruined Western Philosophy just to prove a point to the Sophists. He was a great play writer. But Aristotle had to clean up his mess.


What is reaching?

sage

No you're a Jew who is anti-Aryan truth! The Myth exposes your Jewish Kabbalah esoteric sand nigger thoughts as anti-Nature and anti-white!


Esoterics is literally sand nigger worship!

So, I watched The Myth. What is the true way, then? I see you sperging about esoterics but you never say, exactly, what is the truth.

sage

I've told YOU — and your multiple IPs, Smiley – BEFORE!!

He directly speaks many times of how the Etruscan, Babylonian, Sand Nigger race mixing scum brought esotericism into the faith of the people and destroyed their relationships to their forefathers the gods and to nature! MANY TIMES!!!!!!!!!!

It's in the first video!

He mentions how it happened in Greece to.


/fringe/ has been around doing this shit for years. It pushed Evola on Holla Forums. It's ruined all philosophy threads just like /christian/ does. You're probubly a Jewish group.

You lie about NatSoc with your "esoteric Hilter" meme. You're don't understand memes. You have no magical powers. You embarrass us all. You're all losers and if you had any special powers you'd be out there doing Xman shit instead of shilling up and ruining threads.

Now your new thing is ruining Joseph Campbell for everyone.


You can't admit when you're wrong. So you can grow. So you can't be real wizard (wiseman)/

...

...

This is Savitri Devi. Solid 8/10 1940s qt. She thought that Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_and_the_Sun

I wonder what she would have to say about Trump.

You still didn't answer my question. What is the true way? You're saying esotericism this, esotericism that. What religion philosophy/religion should we follow, specifically?

This guy has yet to define what esotericism is and all he does is link to The Myth as some kind of argument, despite never going beyond sand dune people sagas being the center around European religion. Rosenberg is a great author, but it's being used in a way to dissuade people from people who talk about different things.

Just like cucktholics' cuckoldry.

Oops. Wrong image. You guys used to be cool like a thousand years ago.

Buddha is like a total queer in this one.

So it's confirmed that Christianity is purposefully used by shills to derail threads by playing both sides?

Most likely. Personally I am just an non-devout Orthodox and a devout kekist that loves to remind the cucktholic heretics what they lost.

YHWH was a homosexual, typical of sandniggers.

All you motherfuckers looking for "the" true philosophy or the "true" set of beliefs you should espouse are deceived by congenital Jesus. Eastern religion; esotericism; shamanism; and mystery schools are about TRANSFORMATION, not beliefs. Beliefs should be meta-programmed to fulfill the needs of the moment. If you haven't yet caught a glimpse of the spirit world, you need to believe in lucid dreaming. If you still worship a kike, you need to believe in panpsychism. If you need to see your furniture breathe, you need to believe in better living through chemistry.

If you want to get anywhere in your spiritual life, the best book I can recommend is the Tao te Ching. The first thing is says is "Don't BELIEVE this shit, live with this attitude."

acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html

lol, Oh, Really? I couldn't tell.

Julius Evola's book "Handguide to Traditional Living" Should be read

The only people on Holla Forums taking the pro vs anti christian bait are shills and retarded teenagers.

check out samael aun weor

That nose, that bottom lip. Gomez you sure he isnt a crypto kike?

Honestly there are some things that make me fairly apprehensive about SAW, but he's still worth reading for the sheer volume and density of his works. He was very anti-degeneracy, and while some of his works are questionable others are indispensable.

Aun Weor means light and strength in Hebrew.

He also was in the FRA which was founded by Arnold Krumm-Heller who was pro Hitler and thought the holocoaster was a lie.

Hard to tell.

Jupiter loves olives on Thursdays.

While an ok read it is not however written by Evola.

Also for anyone that wants to learn more about the religions of our ancestors and how they changed without all of the shit slinging that is going on in this thread I advise you to read The Religious Attitudes of the Indo-Europeans by Hans Geunther, it's a good read and will bring you some profound insight into what our ancestors believed.

don't suppose you might have a pdf?

archive.org/details/TheReligiousAttitudesOfTheIndo-europeans

Pick your format.

Does anyone have a pdf of Evola's Revolt Against the Modern World? I can't find one that isn't screwed up when put into a text reader.

Example:

Some may find this whole approach too intellectual, but they can-
not deny that the Traditionalist's discipline of metaphysics cuts like a
razor through the sloppy thinking and sentimentality prevalent among
"New Age" types. It sets standards of integrity against which other spiri-
tual teachings either stand or fall.

Inserting a pause between each line and between words that don't carry over. It's fucking annoying and other sources claiming to have it don't seem to work at all.

checked, and thank you, you're a gentleman and a scholar.

...

No problems, the book really changed my outlook, a real eye opener. If this thread is still open after you've got a few chapters in let me know what you think.

This is pretty interesting. When I was younger I had a mental image, sort of an entire being, of a redheaded woman who represents what you're describing. One day I was walking through a forest and came across a golden field of wheat and realised that I had to leave her there forever, so I threw out the thought. That was about 5 years ago and life has changed a lot since then.


While you may have Norse ancestry, there is no shame in admitting a more immediate Slavic heritage. The Slavic countries, particularly further north, are the settlements of great explorers from West and East. The Slavs were basically the Vikings of the plains.

sage
Nature, Truth, Reality
not fucking nerd magick you pathetic werido beta hiding from it all

sage

This is why you shouldn't let people who are self-liars study philosophy. They turn it into a fantasy world to dance around in and jack off to

Plato argued that the idea of a priori forms being the basis of reality, rather than visual appearances.

They are not fantasies because they can be mathematically determined, with mathematics being more real than any phenomena that you can point to.

Plato was not the first man to postulate the theory of forms. It was the Pythagoreans, you know, an esoteric cult.

sage

Math is a thought experiment you fucking moron. It's symbols. Plato didn't believe that shit. He was just arguing in plays against Sophists. Only idiots take it serious. He was using logical deduction to win a point IN PLAYS
Yeah, have you ever taken a vow of silence for 2yrs just to learn arrhythmic? No… You're a fat nerd sitting on his computer lazy as fuck because we live in the modern age when math is no longer "hidden and mythical".

So fuck off with your esoterics

Oh, I see. Plato didn't actually believe in mathematics. He was just trolling. Sure.


The fuck are you on about?

I'm a starving college student

When did sya that mathematics should be hidden and mythical? What are you quoting? Or are you just sperging out like usual?

mega.nz/#F!0F5GXTjS!oGdz8UP5JbcleNMy6YKLvg

this is the propertarianism library which contains Evola and a bunch of other authors/books mentioned in this thread.

You're a fucking champ, bro. This is some good stuff!

holy fuck it's the shitskin pagan meme all over again top kek

WE WUZ CH'ANGS N SHEEEIIIIIUUUT

Bumping so that more people can see this

This isn't quite correct. She thought Hitler was the anticipation of Kalki, the 10th Avatar. Hitler himself was not Kalki, at least the most mature form of her thought. Fascinating woman. Absolutely batshit, but a good mage.

Oh, hey huntsman!

Thanks for the tip.

archive.org/stream/TheReligiousAttitudesOfTheIndo-europeans/RAIE_djvu.txt

full text here

Wow, what a shit thread full of shit.

You bring up our ancestors Mythology and nobody brings up the dualism which haunts us too this very day, that is the dualism between Celtic and Germanic peoples dating back into deep antiquity.

Contribute then, you cocksucker.

Does it contain stuff on zoroastrianism too?

Is he still around?

You asked, ok want to be freaked out.
Check out what an ancient Cro-magnon cave bear ritual looked like many years ago.


The nigger cave is shit by the way, where they just break tools.

psychologytoday.com/blog/mortal-rituals/201309/two-caves-two-rituals-two-species

What do we do here?

For those of you who are into tarot.
web.archive.org/web/20151215060033/http://8ch.net/fringe/res/52078.html

Reading it. The introduction of says something about the differences about Celtic and Nordic religion. Still getting into it.

Learn how to express yourself coherently before you permanently turn people off to this kind of shit.


It's a hunter initiation rite. Youngsters enter into this "cathedral" (through a womb-like passage) to confront the master/magician of the hunt.

The master/magician of the hunt has pointing-stick horns which are meant to inflict a spiritual/"voodoo" death (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha).

The idea is to experience death and be reborn as a mature individual, a fully-grown man rather than a dependent child, which in the earliest societies meant being a competent hunter.

evola a cuck

limp-dickery dressed up as esoteric wisdom

The guys a nut job.

Retard, you have no concept of steppe migrations

the only dualism that we need to worry about is mind/body, and how it's a fucking farce

universe is mind over matter, not vice versa. From there, things get a whole lot clearer.

That's hermeticism, right?

aye. As above, so below and all that.

the thing is, hermetic teachings indicate the presence of memetics as a variable in the collective will of a civilization; ergo as fringe tier as it may seem, it's catered quite curiously to the demographic of chan culture.

i'm only a very novice student of the teachings at best, but the very notion of memetics as an applied form of magik in the sense of will manifestation, and it's relation to the sort of awakening the chans have had in the last few years, is way too "coincidental" for it to be merely coincidence.

Who would've known that the chans would bring WWIII?

I'm not entirely unconvinced that the chans didn't usher in many, many wars throughout history

keeping in line with my little tangent on hermeticism, the teachings are studied, practiced, and utilized throughout various civilizations via the Mystery Schools, the hidden cults, the "secret" societies, the men's literature clubs- the atlantean crystal tuning forums, if you will.

just because we're doing it with computers now doesn't mean we haven't been here before.

In Christianity the conduct of the faithful beforeGod is freely interpreted by the termhumilis, and hence humility, meaning literally slave mindor serving the tribe, isdemanded as the essence of religiosity. But this isnon-Indo-European in outlook, anafter-effect of oriental religiosity. Because he isnot a slave before an omnipotent God,the Indo-European mostly prays not kneeling nor prostrated to earth, but standing withhis eyes gazing upward and his arms stretched out before him.As a complete man with his honour unsullied, the honest Indo-European stands uprightbefore his God or Gods. No religiosity which takessomething away from man, to makehim appear smaller before a deity who has become all-powerful and oppressive, is Indo-European. No religiosity which declares the world and man to be valueless, low andunclean, and which wishes to redeem man to over-earthly or superhuman sacred values,is truly Indo-European. Where “this world” is dropped, and in its place the “other world”is raised to eternal good, there the realm of Indo-European religiosity is abandoned. ForIndo-European religiosity is of this world, and this fact determines its essential forms ofexpression. As a result it is sometimes difficult for us to comprehend its greatness today,because we are accustomed to measuring religiosityin terms of values taken fromdecidedly non-Indo-European and mainly oriental religious life, and especially fromMediaeval and early modern Christianity. It followstherefore that our view of Indo-European religiosity must suffer in the same way aswould one’s view of the structure ofthe Indo-European languages if they were describedin terms of characteristicsappropriate to the Semite languages. We are today accustomed to seek true religiosityonly in terms of the other world and to regard religiosity of this world as undeveloped orlacking in some aspect — a preliminary stage on theway to something more valuable.Thus the Jewish-Christian religious ideas transmitted to us prevent us from recognisingthe greatness of the Indo-European religiosity, sothat in comparative religious studiesIndo-European religious values are again and againrepresented purely scientifically asbeing less important, since the proponents of theseviews have unconsciously acceptedthe ideal of Oriental spiritual values as a yardstick for every religious value. Thiscriticism is also applicable to Rudolf Otto’s studycalledThe Sacred(1948). Thus thegreatness and fullness of the Indo-European world is never recognised.Whoever wishes to measure religiosity by the degreeof man’s abasement before thedivine, or by how questionable, valueless or even tainted “this world” appears to manwhen faced with that “other world”, and whoever wishes to measure religiosity by thedegree to which man feels a cleft between a transitory body and an indestructible soul,between flesh (sarx) and spirit (pneuma) — whosoever seeks to do this will have todeclare that the religiosity of the Indo-Europeansis truly impoverished and paltry.Gods and men are not, in the eyes of the Indo-Europeans, incomparable beings remotefrom one another, least of all to the Hellenes, towhom Gods appeared as immortal menwith great souls (cf. Aristotle:Metaphysics, III, 2, 997b), while they believed that men, aswell-formed shoots of noble genus, also possessed something divine, and as such couldclaim to approximate to divine stature — the “Godlike Agamemnon”. In the nature ofman himself, just as the deity wishes, lie possibilities, seemingly divine in origin,diogenes, and thus it is that every Indo-European people has readily tended to assume theincarnation of all aristocratic national values inhuman families, thekalok’agathia.14Indo-European religiosity is not slavery, it contains none of the implorings of adowntrodden slave to his all-powerful lord, but comprises rather the confiding fulfilmentof a community comprising Gods and men. Plato speaks in hisBanquet(188c) of a“mutual community (philia) between Gods and men”. The Teuton was certain ofthefriendship of his God, of theastvinor thefulltruiwhom he fully trusted, and with theHellenes in theOdyssey(XXIV, 514) the same certainty is found expressedin the words“friends of the Gods” (theoi philoi). In theBhagavad Gitaof the Indians (IV, 3) the GodKrishna calls the man Arjuna his friend. The highest deity such as Zeus is honoured as“Father of the Gods and of men” — as a family father, asZeus Herkeios, not as a despot.This idea is also expressed in the names of the Gods:Djaus pitarwith the Indians andJupiterwith the Romans. The name of the Indian GodMitra, which corresponded toMithrain Iran, means “friend”. Mazdaism, founded by Zoroaster, called the morallyacting man a friend of Ahura Mazda, the One Universal God, who in the era ofAchaemenides became the God of the Persian empire.According to Plato (Laws, IV,716) the man of moderation and self-control is above all “a friend of God”

Holy shit, we're forming a Mystery School now.

There's some good stuff on this book.

This thread is good for the spirit.

Original user to suggest the book here, I'm glad you're enjoying, it gets better and better the beliefs he describes of the Indo-Europeans really resonate with me and I believe they will for the rest of Holla Forums too. I honestly felt enlightened after reading that book. I feel much closer to my ancestors because of it.

After you finish it and if you are still yearning for more I'd suggest reading some of Georges Dumézil's work.

The more I read about mythology, the more I believe Günther is full of shit.

For one, we see identical pantheistic, sky-oriented cosmologies to the Indo-Europeans in the (Asiatic) Turkic peoples with Tengriism.

The idea of masculine-oriented heroic culture has more to do with the nomadism than anything else, with these cultural traits being quickly absorbed by groups that take up this lifestyle (Turks and Mongols were originally Siberian hunter-foragers). With equal speed, we see these beliefs cast off and matriarchal-sedentary cults being adopted among Indo-Europeans in both Europe and India. Whatever mythological system makes sense according to local circumstance is the one that becomes dominant.

What's ironic is that the Germanics are the least culturally Indo-European of the Indo-Europeans. Germanic languages incorporate a very large amount of indigenous linguistic structures. The Moon is masculine and the Sun is feminine in Germanic languages (as well as Germanic pre-Christian belief systems), opposite of the norm in other Indo-European languages such as Latin, Greek, and I believe most Slavic languages.

You clearly haven't read his work if you think this is what he means by Indo-European religion.

I was stating a fact, not putting words in his mouth.

When does he ever say that pantheistic, sky-oriented cosmologies are unique to Indo-Europeans or even imply that this is fundamental to their beliefs?

LARP
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Bitch, do you read English?
I stated Indo-Europeans had sky-oriented cosmologies. Not him.

For one, we see identical pantheistic, sky-oriented cosmologies to the Indo-Europeans in the (Asiatic) Turkic peoples with Tengriism.

Are you serious? You use it as an example of why he is full of shit but if he's never said anything counter to your point then how is he full of shit?

What the fuck? I'm the one providing a counter-point, not him.

He avoided explicitly stating the cosmological worldview of the Indo-Europeans for the sake of presenting them as exclusively laconic-heroic, when we know beyond doubt that the Indo-Europeans were highly shamanic.

Central to their worldview (and what distinguished them from the telluric planting cultures or Semitic nomads) is the idea of a sky-father, plus a tendency towards syncretism. Their religious perspective is fundamentally the same as the Turks, right down to shared sacred symbols and cosmogony.

According to who? You? A sky father is hardly unique to the Indo-Europeans. I think you've completely missed his point and views of the Indo-Eurpoeans.

And of course the Indo-Europeans share some ideas and traits with other peoples since they obviously encountered one another and influenced each other but there is a certain world view, a certain combination of ideals which are unique to the Indo-Europeans of the ancient world.

Of course, that's my point. But its the critical difference between the earlier telluric cultures and the later Indo-European ones. It's this "marriage" of contrasting pantheons that we see in Aesir and Vanir, Olympian and Cthonic.

There is no evidence for this view. Look's go down the list:

Indians— priests hold political power. The Indo-European sky father, Indra, is subordinated to non-categorizable Brahma. Extremely non-individualistic/heroic.

Persians: similar, but also authored the concept of absolute dualism.

Russians: though genetically and geographically closest to the Indo-Europeans, are perhaps the least individualistic, least heroic, and most Asiatic of the Europeans.

Greeks: their civilization was based on the Apollonian (Doric in origin) and Dionysian (pre-Indo-European) tension. Greek culture began to break down when Apollonian rationalism began to predominate with Socrates and Euripides.

Germans: as I have pointed out, linguistic and religious evidence shows they are the most pre-Indo-European culturally, and also genetically within Scandinavia.

Günther was projecting Western European virtues onto the Indo-Europeans based on the spurious archaeological evidence available at the time. This is reflected in the unfocused, rambling nature of the essay.

These are all to do with specific regional religions and not the original religiosity of the Indo-Europeans.

I implore anyone reading this to read the book and see the evidence for yourself rather than just taking either of our words on it.

That's the problem here. It what makes Günther's worldview so quixotic.
The elementary ideas (Elementargedanken) that underpin the religious ideas of Indo-European cultures are so esoteric as to be universal, which is why these belief-systems are so prone to syncretism in the first place.
The ethnic ideas (Völkergedanken) have very little to do with their Indo-European origins.

There are many other flaws, such as Odin being of relatively recent significance (post-A.D.) for the Germanics, that I simply don't have time to go into. Just don't take Günther's work at face value.

Wrong, he comes far later than Dyeus/Zeus

IIRC, most support the idea that the original PIE sun deity was female

...

Indra emerged as the Aryans settled Iran, quite early. He was was the head God of the Rigvedic tribes before passing into relative obscurity.
He's a heroic, brash, promiscuous, thunderbolt-hurling sky demiurge who slays the leviathan and resides atop Mount Meru, the analogue to Mount Olympus.

The solar disk/sun door is itself feminine, but the masters of the sun chariot (eg trundholm sun chariot) are male
You'll usually see the Sun presented as male in comedic mythologies, whereas lunar male Gods indicate a tragic mythology

Don't think so. Think he made a point to drop off the radar.

His book is fucking dank tho.

You should read it.