Why are cartoon cartoons getting worse?

Basically what seems to have happened is that most of the new generation of animators and writers weren't chosen for their skill but opinions. They don't really care or like cartoons at all, they just see them as vehicles for their shit SJW propaganda. As for the animation and art, I think your lauded Adventure Time opened the floodgates of stick figures. It lowered the standard tremendously.

Furthermore the culture is shit. Allow me to explain - when I watch The Loud House I know I'm watching an american show, and I like this feeling. I always like it when the country of origin is evident in themes, designs and other numerous things. But most of the new cartoons are devoid of culture or spirit. They're geared towards either SJW's or the international market - and anything international is devoid of identity.

The audience is shit too. The audience started to care only about their political ideology being shilled and devolved into a kind of brown mystery meat.

Basically it's not just something that happened to cartoons. White culture has been shamed and assaulted from all sides, and it was white culture that valued creativity. The world seeks to replace anything authentic with everything generic. But there is a pushback against this, once more not something purely toon related.

I'm hoping that younger Anons and kids somehow realize just how poisonous all of this has been for us all. We need a Renaissance and even a kind of scorched earth tactic to eviscerate the tumors. None of this is how the world is supposed to be. It's all so terribly vulgar, degraded, soulless.

Except 90% of Anime is well designed and animated…

nice

Well, for me is because of how blatant it is.
Anyone should have the right to put their ideals on their creations, EVEN sjw's, but good lord, it is true they're downright propagandthe rest area by this point.

Steven Jewniverse could've been a decent series with its SJW ideals but nooooo, 100 episodes and just 12 are even plot related, and 18 (including the previous 12) actually move the characters forward, the rest is just shoving the morals down your throat.

Everything is Social Media's fault.
Every stupid ideal is supported instead of proving itself right and everything that is mean is eradicated not caring how right might it be.
But if its nice then it doesn't matter how obviously idiotic it is it'll get approved.
Not to mention that if you put your ideals to fight against strawmans or do not present a common ground of interaction your work becomes the literal definition of propaganda.
Invoking PPG vs that feminazi episode.

This is Holla Forums.
Shill out man, not everyone is trying to kill you, you sound almost like an SJW, thankfully you're not going "I'm literally who" on this stuff.

This is Occam's razor.

Every time period had its good share of shit, you just don't remember because you have no obligation of doing so, the same way you didn't have the obligation of watching it.

Clarence is not so shitty. I remember way worse shows from my childhood (talking about early-mid 2000s), and most of them had zero memorable moments. The Clarence Dollars episode alone puts Clarence way above these, but it still delivers from time to time. TTG and NuPPG are irredeemably shit although I must admit I love the a e s t h e t i c s of NuPPG's opening, but that's about it. Also, even though people here love to shit on SU, it has some charm. Sure, the show is fairly flawed in many ways, the main one being that it doesn't seem to decide on being a SoL show or have a full blown shounen plot, which harms character development quite a bit that's assuming the writers are mildly competent, but I doubt that's the case, but it's not something like "Mike, Lu & Og" or anything from the "forgettable stuff" thread. People will remember SU in a few years, and some might even remember it fondly.

The problem here is you just remember the good cartoons of yesteryear, while you forget that most of them were absolute crap. Just go to the "forgettable stuff" thread. It's like taking your nostalgia goggles off for a moment.

Why do you feel the need to put on your trip just to deliver a generic online NatSoc Holla Forumsadin "I gotta protek mah culture from le libruls" speech?

If you want a vision of the future, look to the UK. The 90's serialised X-Men cartoon was, to my group of friends and family at the time, infamously confusing, the plot seemed to make no sense, and dead characters would suddenly be alive again without explanation.
Years later I realised the TV execs were just crapping out the episodes in a random order, because "fuck it, it's only for kids".

Are you talking about Cartoon Network originals?

I think we're doing much better than then. However the SJW shit is the problem now.

Inspector Redwood's Official DC Comics and Cartoon Network registered BBS forum is thataway -→ boards.4chan.org/co/

I am feeling this current era is 60's & 70's cartoon 2.0. Both had many forgettable cartoons, softy propagranda and similar studio stories how bad the labors are.

It's been awhile since I used this

There's a great deal of reasons for the quality disparity, and the number of shows being produced is not a major one. IMDB lists 114 American animated TV series that started in 2015, which is like half of Japan's output but still a high number.

Sturgeon's Law is not an actual law by the way, or even informally correct. To take anime as an example, most shows are not bad; they are just mediocre/average/ok.

I agree that creators should be allowed to express their opinions and ideas. And here's the problem. We live in a world where everything that isn't liberalism is regarded as wrongthink and isn't allowed to be expressed. We're basically under censorship and produce nothing but propaganda, and this propaganda is anathema to quality, to art, to feelings and that play of imagination that strikes you upon observing any form of fiction.

Likewise I agree about social media. This is an unnatural state in which any sort of abomination can pester creators of any sort. The creators and the audience were never meant to be this close. The result is that a creator is no longer in command of his creation but has to accomodate seeming thousands of voices gauding him into producing what they want. It may even sound innocent when written like this, but in reality it reduces the creator to a de facto slave and divorces him from his inner vision and his talent/effort he posesses. Furthermore, the majority of humanity regardless of race and creed is a mere step above apedom. The people capable of creating, inventing, thinking and keeping civilization afloat are a tiny minority. They should not be at the bottom of the pyramid or forced to comply to mere popular sentiments, politics and a system of values that sees everything through the orgasm and good fee fee's.

Naturally we're all a bit egotistical and want a biiiig slice of the life's pie. And here's the distinction between the right wing view and the left wing view. A person on the right will inevitably conclude that there is a hierarchy and that there were and are people above him, and he will make peace with this. He will only then become aware of his own qualities and worth, and rest content in what he is while aspiring to greater perfections.

Haven't you ever heard of Foreign Filtering? … Well I suppose not, seeing as I just made it up. However, it's a term I'd like to propose for the phenomenon of only the best/most popular media being exported from a country.

For example: Save "District 9", how many South African films do you know? Most people couldn't even name three.

Another example: Once upon a time, I stumbled upon a series called "Tokyo Daigaku Monogatari", or "Tokyo University Story". It received middling sales in its own market, and was never released Stateside or even given a fansub. I'd wager that over ninety-nine percent of the world population outside of Japan hasn't heard about it.

But what -does- get exported? Stuff that's bound to sell. Stuff like Death Note, High School DxD, and all of the "big three" shounens.

Still, I would argue that the average anime is better than the average cartoon, simply 'cuz anime is big business, while cartoons are usually chump change.

Also.

Fucking Holla Forumsacks, I swear to god. You guys have the biggest victim complex this side of the Atlantic.

And furthermore…

This is just the MUH MULTICULTURALISM DESTROYS IDENTITIES shtick in disguise.

I'd debate you, but it's obvious that you're too far gone to be convinced by some random user.

I just said that there's probably a simpler reason, I never said he was wrong.
When Hillary Clinton is being a big criminal cunt probably is not because she belongs to a luciferian cult but just because she's a massive criminal cunt.

I think the main difference is these cartoons are "creator-driven" rather than "studio-driven"

Most people in the West who watch anime still live in a filter bubble, but it's either by choice or out of ignorance since practically everything gets streamed now (and before that we had comprehensive fansubs and DVD releases). I watch 20 or more shows every season and the general level of quality is good (writing is a weaker link than production quality and design).

Well then what the fuck were you watching.
Most of the stuff I try to watch that is not liked by western audiences is mediocre shit.

I tried to blame it to culture difference but some plots are just b lazy as shit.

Didn't I just say that writing is a weaker link than production quality and design? was also specifically talking about design and animation.

I'm not even American.

Yes, yes it does. This doesn't require any sort of input at all. It's obvious to everyone.

Your actions over the last 80 or so years render debates meaningless. You're enemies of the world and you have made it a worse place for everyone. Nobody wants to debate you or any other liberal because we no longer entertain even a suspicion that your intentions are in any way beneficial, benevolent or result in anything but destruction. You no longer have any credibility and your ideology has failed. This hellworld of misery and suffering ranging from the material to the spiritual is a product of your efforts. This is the world you built. That's the kind of people you are.

Thus there's no point in debating, for you are a worshipper of evil and I have no faith in anything that is (you). At this point the only people who are liberal are those who think with their genitalia or are otherwise slaves to their lower urges and death drives. You will not have a say or a hand in running this show anymore, and it's not some fictional Waffen SS that will cast you out but normal people who otherwise do not care about politics or are aware of deeper nuances. We've reached the point where any person with any self-respect and kindness feels an almost biological fear of you. You aren't shining angels of virtue you claimed to be, and your true face is showing, and humanity has come to terms with your deformity.

The grinding wheel of history is upon you. Thus turn back from your evil ways while there's still a window of opportunity. Become a real person and not a slave to your urges and the wishes of your masters. Free yourself, build yourself.

The quality of cartoons seems to have gone down due to the popularity of of CalArts students who have an intense sense of nepotism towards others that subscribe to the same art styles.

SJWs have a terrible sense of humor due to their desire to not offend anything ever, which is a gigantic hurdle for them since they can get offended by much anything. It means the only kind of humor they can enjoy doing is portraying things as 'cute' which for them means making something appear childish or silly. Just try to think of an actual joke you heard on Steven Universe, Adventure Time, or NuPPG, as in a repeatable joke, possibly between two characters, that is funny.

For Steven Universe, every attempt at a joke devolves into trying to show a character as being simplistic or childish.

Of course when I say they try to make characters childish I don't mean actually similar to a child or their sense of humor, but rather what a middle aged woman may imagine would be cute for a child to find funny. Similar problem you can find in Ponyo On The Cliff By The Sea. Little actually done in the story that was funny or adventure like, but rather there were numerous moments that seemed like what someone older may imagine would be cute for a child to find entertaining.

...

Oooh, edgy. Ever considered a career as a professional quote-maker, friendo?

Ooh, edgy. Ever consider a career as a professional quote-maker, friendo?

Ebin, simply ebin.

Why can't I fucking use my fucking meme magic to get these shows cancelled?

Meme magic only works in accidental/incidental ways. Trying to force meme magic is in essence like trying to force a meme; it never sticks and only on occasion ends up staying relevant, if only for a day or two

Not only that but you have to have enough people joking and laughing about it for it to produce any results, like the Les Bains plane crash

A reminder that back in the late 90s/early 2000s, people were bitching that the Cartoon Cartoons of that era were ruining the network

Really? Who said these things?

He did, were you not there?

I was a little kid in grade school during that time period. I didn't care what some dude on a Mongolian cartoon board was bitching about.

just a taste

Oh you haven't seen anything yet. Just wait a few weeks.

I want to be mad but the irony is legitimately sending my sides into orbit.

Good joke. The vast majority of anime is copypaste garbage, from setting, to character design, to writing. Sure, you get several shows that can break that mold a year but only due to the sheer breadth of it being produced at any one time. The vast majority of anime is just as terrible as western entertainment, and only weebs claim otherwise.

my God its like our bitching is staring back at us. Seriously though I'm surprised there were people that pissed about good old CN.

I would say that many people were getting tired of the thick outline geometric/angular look of late 90s/2000s. Current cartoons have thinner lines, tapered, smooth edges, and are noodly as fuck with colors saturated to hell.

I thought the angular look was mostly Craig McCracken's work though.

Something isn't copy pasted just because it resembles something else, nor is something garbage just because it resembles something else.

This is a typical case of fetishizing originality for originality's sake. If people normally thought that way, European painting for example would never have developed as far as it did because it would have been taboo to keep working on the same thing over and over again in order to perfect it.

You are just trying to drag others down to your level.

in a few years, people may found one of our threads with us bitching about Steven Universe, and react with the same confusion

The difference is that Steven Universe is shit, I can see people in the future reading our bitching about Gravity Falls, Star vs, The Loud House, the first 4 seasons of Abortion Time/Regular Show, even fucking MLP but Jilly shit I can't see that for SU.

I meant reading our bitching and holding these series dearly despite their mistakes.

Gee, it is almost as if cartoons today were trying to be unique by looking different from all the cartoons of the past

Craig McCracken, Butch Hartman, Genndy Tartakovsky, Rob Renzetti
list goes on

And you know what all of these people have in common?
They are all CalArts graduates!
All of the cartoons we love and remember fondly?
CalArts style every single one of them!

So basically people back then were bitching about CalArts stlye!
And in respons, the CalArts style has changes!
And now WE are bitching about CalArts style, but not because "it looks all the same" , but because it is not the CalArts style we grew up with! (which the older generation back then also complained that "it looks all the same")

VICIOUS CIRCLE I TELL YOU!
WE BECAME OUR PARENTS!

you have no idea how nostalgia works, do you?

Back then a lot of those show's jokes would have gone straight over my head, and sure, I might have even been in the same boat. But these new cartoons won't even grant kids the dignity of a punchline worth its time to set up. They're dumb and they'll eat whatever shit's on a plate if you give them a fork, so let's just keep the little goys and girls that way. It's easier, and more importantly cheaper, for everyone!

Holy shit you're right. They all went to CalArts. We've become a bunch of hypocrites.

...

The sad thing is: This post will end up in oblivion.

Actually, that sounds a lot like Holla Forums, too.

Here's an idea, why don't we let dedicated and passionate fans make their own reboots and episodes of their favourite shows?

I've seen many anons post ideas that would make great episodes of Ed, Edd and Eddy, Invader Zim, and many others. And in some threads, we got ideas that could've redeemed shows like Steven Universe.

One great idea was to have a Homeworld-worshiping cult of humans who believed gems came to Earth to bring a crystaline apotheosis to humanity and saw the Rebellion as fallen who took it away. They would use scavenged and reverse-engineered gem technology to oppose the Crystal Gems and would see through their facade of protecting Earth while only caring about their own selfishness.

The point is, by decentralizing the networks and moving to a Netflix-style system of distribution online, we would have another animation Renaisance, this time carried out by passionate fans creating their own versions of great cartoons. Yes this is a double edged sword. Some will be shit. But for every shit show, their's bound to be great ones. This will allow new creators to build up experience for creating their own cartoons. And when everyone's remixing works, the new networks would want to invest in the creation of original content to have a competitive edge which would mean hiring original creators and giving them high budgets with maximum creative freedom to tell the stories they want in fear of them working with their competitors. This ensures a high standard of quality in the animation industry and a variety of cartoons with their own vastly different themes, executions, genres and so forth.

Fuck off.

...

Yeah, no. Animation is hard, and there are a handful of good indie animators (who usually do porn) like Mike Inel or Saltyicecream. None of them do much more than small looping animations because animation is so fucking hard and time consuming you need a whole team to hand-animate stuff in a somewhat timely manner.

Besides, considering how autistic Holla Forums is about artists not receiving funding from their fans because REAL ARTISTS should only produce art in their free time, you could never get them to work on the episodes full time. And even if you changed your opinion on it and decided charging for their art is not a bad idea, they would still get fucked over IP laws, so it's a catch-22 situation.

tl;dr we can't have nice things. Ever.

Hell no, ask them to draw something with no use of anime limitation. Beside you are part of the downfall of western animation for supporting weeb artists.

What if does IP laws were abolished?

What are you, a communist?

That place has always been a hive of panicky, doomsaying autists who are the elder version of the people losers like Mr Enter gear videos toward. Some of them still dwell on imageboards as well, worshipping John K.

infoanarchist

Capitalist. IP laws are corporatist in nature.

shiggy diggy.

Why else would Disney contribute millions to lobbying every year to extend copyright to centuries?

as it all the shows nostalgiafags are gushing over were comedic masterpieces

yeah, because this sort of thing worked SO WELL for CartoonHangover

you just described Holla Forums here

It'd be easier for them to draw grinning potatofaces. Anime usually requires anatomically correct bodies, and except for action scenes, absolutely no off-model or inconsistencies. Truth is, if you pay closer attention to their animations, specially Mike's, you can see they draw lots of keyframes to make their animations move smoothly. With grinning potatofaces you could simply argue they are moving 2fast4ureye and still manage to get away with it.

Cry me a river. Saltyicecream isn't even specially anime-y. I bet you would also call Doug Sneyd's art "weeaboo shit" as well, you CalArts shiteater.

Difference being CartoonHangover is an echo chamber whereas the system I propose is a free market with all kinds of different studios competing with each other unlike today.

would not change the situation, as you still need money

New networks would contract and finance studios much like Disney CN and Nick did back when they actually had to provide quality content to compete and not rely on name recognition and toilet humor like they do now.

wonder if I'll ever make a girl that happy

You still don't know shit about. You weeb shit eaters are in the same place with potatofaces. Both of you want to get away from difficulties. Smooth frame, anatomically correct, less off-model(you sick!) and inconsistencies? That is not impression from those artists that incompetent. I still see flash movement from them. Just go back to /a/

what you just described is what eventually lead us to the situation we have now

so you want photorealism
hope you are willing to pay the costs

He wants rotoscoping

We're in the situation now because the networks are big enough to ride off of name recognition off their past works like Teen Titans and PPG. They also produce garbage like Pickle and Peanut because they have disdain for their audience.

Then they are doing quite a good work at it, probably even better than Ankama, the supposed masters of Flash tweening. Chances are they are using some hybrid technique because there is no way to make Flash tweening not look that much like tweening.

Rotoscoping is kinda dumb unless you are trying to do something really crazy like that Van Gogh movie. If you want to do an animation that looks like a movie with filters, why don't you just put a few filters over the movie and get done with it?

and they became that way by outliving all of their competition that has since gone bankrupt

you see, in the early 2000s, animation has experienced a crash, caused largely by the oversatiation of the market.
All the stuff we remember so fondly?
I all lead to that crash.
Animation costs eventually became greater than the profits it made, and one studio after another went bankrupt.
The only way to survive was to either go cheap, or to give-up on animation and re-orient to live-action.
The things we are bitching about now?
Those are an improvement, seeing how for a time it seemed like animation (at least on TV) would just be outright phased out in favor of more sitcoms and reality shows.
It was the success of Adventure Time, a show Holla Forums hates with a murderous passion, that even made networks interested in making animation again.

What you are suggesting is basically repeating the scenario that lead to the current situation, only with the risk of thing turning out even worse (as in end of animation in general)

Why did he said that.
Is it because otaku means you get closed from other means of media, and because anime is just a blob with little imagination and all that is good just gets lost forever in that blob?

Gonna have to call bullsht, in that Fox has been pretty successful with their animated comedies

I think it's more that it's too easy to appeal to otaku with cute girls and cute boys doing cute things, formulaic shonen and big robots, and everything else suffers.

Though seems just as much a grumpy old man lashing out at what he doesn't understand and didn't grow up with.

but that is adult animation
they pretty much have no real competition in that department

Speaking of that - when America is going to get a proper adult animation? As in, "animation aimed at adults", instead of "porn/ultraviolence/sitcoms".

He never said that. What he attually said was that almost all japanese animators don't get the inspirations from real human activities.

Charming you are. You are wrong. I didn't ask for this.

The Simpsons and a revolving door of tagalongs?

It already exists. The problem is no one can compete with Fox, who has the market cornered, and no one is willing to cough up the cash to try something different and risky.

Actually, I can see that. Cartoons for shut-in nerds by shut-in nerds that rapidly become parodies of themselves increasingly disconnected from reality, like fanfiction.

The only thing this proves is that blaming something like CalArts or noodlearms as bringers of the apocalypse is shallow and incorrect.
But just because some people said things sucked before, it doesn't actually mean that things can't suck or that things NOW don't suck. You know, people where saying the same about Camp Lazlo and Gym Partner is a Monkey, and turns out… they were right.

On top of that, it's not like all the cartoons they hated are some animation milestone. I know anons on imageboards have a boner for "muh childhood", but the truth is the EDs, Samurai Jack and ESPECIALLY Cow n Chicken and Weasel are far from being cartoon masterpieces or even so great as to be shielded from harsh criticism.
Samurai Jack is a snooze fest, the EDs characters mostly lacked humanity and Cow and Weasel humor was pathetically retarded at times.
So while the argument could be made that cartoons like Adventure Time, Gumball or Steve Universe are actually that good and time will remember them as such, it's still very likely that others like Clarence, nu-Powerpuff and Star will be remembered like the trash they are considered now.

That was is argument, that if you don't take real life as the primary example, your cartoon will be a caricature of a caricature, not just in animation but in the characters as well.
It's a problem with western cartoons too, it's why you have characters like Finn or Dipper or Steven who behave so inhumanely they often seem autistic.

only that there are now people claiming that Camp Lazlo and My Gym Partner is a Monkey are masterpieces

I always considered the calm moments as build up, I never got bored by it, I did got bored from cow and chicken with its repetitive autism.

He seemed pretty normal for me fam.

Never heard that once.

Wasn't Dipper based on Hirsch childhood memories exaggerated by his imagination back then.
Sounds like a real life example to me.

Dipper and Finn are the result of 2 different problems

Finn is the result of the writers discharging their frustrations and insecurities onto the main character, shoving whatever made up philosophical nonsense they came up with alongside a great dose muh suffering, and you end up with a MC that ends up being a jobber in his own show and acts like a depressive autist 24/7
Dipper on the other hand… it's a straight up self-insert of the creator, and Hirsch being the beta he is, what he self-insert isn't exactly pleasant; when Dipper doesn't reflects Hirsch, he does fine and ends up being a decent MC, when Hirsch lets his beta self slip in on Dipper… then prepare to cringe

At least not disposable lazy junk

He started off as a 12-year-old happy-go-lucky boything…now he's a 18-year-old(?!) sadsack boything

Puberty?

You fucking wish user

it is the natural result of living a life of fighting evil
your mental or emotional health will take a toll

Camp Lazlo was more disposable than any of the current shows

I'm gonna assume that you haven't watched the show, in which case, I envy you for not witnessing such bullshit writing

Never saw that.

My point was that it can be seen like that, like I do, because it's far from being that great.

His behavior with girls his age is all over the place. It's one thing being a spineless bumbling doormat with the older girl you have a crush on, it's completely another one to behave like that to your twin sister.

You mean right now, because I bet my nuts he never actually knew someone like Pacifica, never had to match wits with someone as clever as Bill nor was he ever that adventorous. And I'm not saying when he does that he isn't a good character, but then you have a schizo who's half "brave and bold MC that can't relate to people realistically" and half "MC who relates to people realistically, in the most pathetic way possible and that would get killed in the first adventure he'd go in".

Same with Finn, yes he's "based" on Penn but it's pretty obvious he never was the center of romantic affection of two or three hot, successful and interesting girls or that he ever was an outdoors guy going on adventures.

They're based on real people, but like grorious nippon say "a person is defined by the room they're in".
If you take a person you know and put it in a setting he never was in, dealing with people he never met and doing things he never did, then it may be as well a completely fictional character, because there's very little realism left in there.
It's why when you want to create a believable love interest you have to base it on a real girl you actually interacted with; if you base it off your mom you create The Nagging Cunt, if you base it off the red-haired girl you had a crush on but never talked to you create The Cardboard Cutout, if you base it off the actress you jerk it off to you create The Retarded Bimbo. All annoying characters, badly written not because they aren't real, but because they were misplaced in their roles.

Same here with GF and AT, like said, yes they based their MC on real characters, but they did it so they could write self-insert fiction to gratify themselves.

That's exactly what they are.

part of Dipper's personality was Jason Shitter too, so when you have two of the most obnoxiously liberal, douchey beta-males inserting themselves into one character, it creates one of the most spineless, cringeworthy, pathetic main characters a show has ever seen.

There's good anime every season.

Those images are shopped. Miyazaki never said those things.

What is a "blob"?

Cute girls, shounen manga/anime and mecha anime predate the existence of otaku subculture and exist independently of it (Miyazaki's own movies were full of cute girls). None of those things also tell us anything about an anime.

There's no reason to think Miyazaki knows anything about TV anime or otaku culture, and in any case he is wrong.

The idea of otaku being shut-ins is a media-created stereotype from the early 90s that migrated to America some time after 2007.

How would anime professionals for example be shut-ins when they work all day long in office spaces doing highly collaborative work?

You could say Mabel is where he projected his "silly" side while still being based on how he remembers his sister

Thank you for giving us a tl;dr that specifies you're talking out of your ass.

never really liked Ed, Edd, and Eddy either, I don't understand why people rank it high among the older CN cartoons. every character was some degree of annoying, abrasive, or just plain unlikable sans one or two.

if you've watched The Loud House, those episodes where Lincoln is for some reason trying to impress his asshole classmates are what EEnE was 100% of the time. pure frustration, like why are you shooting yourself in the foot over these people?

Probably the reason is that their characters aren't really explored to justify that, at least Dipper showed patterns of puberty depression and general insecurity to show why was he so beta sometimes.
Or Helga from Hey Arnold! Also showed patterns of her home life.
I think is too early to blame Loud House, people are so impatient with character development/reveals nowadays I swear it.
Is like they need an immediate justification for why they don't like a character.

Didn't the creators say something like S1 is about the MC and his relationships with his sisters?

Is called spoonfeeding.
Instead of waiting until their characteristic patterns, that can be foreseen by repetition of these characteristics as part of them and accumulate into a problem that has to be addressed they want nice characters with depth, depth, mind you, given by cheap drama.

Yeah, but just because a character is based on you or people you know that doesn't mean that they can't grow into their own persons, as an amateur writer I've learned that the hard way.
You sometimes loose control of your characters as they begin to Doo shit on their own based on their own flaws and strengths

that was an editorial mandate

How am I talking out of my ass?

To be honest, I would rather see more of bimbo or ditzy female characters. The whole flood of strong muscular she-males who don't need no man and are unforgivable cunts is overly saturated and annoying in today's shows.

Still, the show quality went into a nosedive from there and didn't try to recover.

not that user but…
thats where
first you have to define nerds and the only definition i can really think we will all agree on is people who actually do nerdy things AKA very large consumers of normal to niche media, in that sense they must be a shut in since they sit inside and watch anime and sci fi movies all day they not only have less time to socialize but since they heavily consume alternative media like comic books it means they didnt see the latest football game and have nothing to talk about with normal people.

Current year

Anime is technically impressive, however they are masters of detail, but lack a lot of imagination, jesus, there is liek 100 anime that copy pokemon.

I really hate the elitism of weaboos that base beauty on that same body model, realy the variatins are very small, they just add stuff on top of them and call it a new character pretty much like a character creator from an mmo.

They cant comprehend how someone could LIKE a cartoon for its visuals, I actually like the "grinning potato style" It is annoying that is everywhere but by itself I like it, Weaboos trash it becaus ethey think is ugly, they always say any cartoon is ugly because Anime is their standard of beauty.

Now, plot wise, shows like Adventure Time went to shit, if I idint liked the visuals I wouldnt have downloaded ILLEGALLY the first 4 seasons! but that is completely appart from the show's visuals!

same with MLP, it had goneseason 2 boring and bland this six season… yet I still think some of the ponies they keep introducing look cute ( however they DO recycle the same body all the time…)

Going back at pokemon, even in Japanese stuff I dislike what a lot of Otaku like, their moe "blobs" (they arent actual blobs I know) are characters that are infuriating to me, meanwhile I think Pokemon has very good designed human charactersm very distintive from other anime.

But is all PERSONAL preference!

The otaku panic in the early 1990s was all because of the Tsutomu Miyazaki case. He was characterized as a shut-in. When Akio Nakamori in 1983 wrote his original articles where he coined the term otaku, he was at a convention (likely Comiket) and characterized them as overly excitable and even "strangely faggy."

In the early to mid 2010s the perception shifted again and this time otaku were cool and hip and leading the charge to make manga, anime and Japanese games popular overseas.

Obviously otaku must spend a lot of time at home to do what they do, but that's not enough to make someone a "shut-in."

a funny meme, those Otaku make!

What ? How ?
I remember the AT staff bragging about "muh creative freedumz" a lot around that time, how it came to be an editorial mandate ?

I guess when the show became CN's flagship

apparently the execs were breathing down their necks for them to fix Finn's arm

the thing is, they do have creative freedom in the stories they make, but they can not do anything drastic that would affect the show's marketing (and one of the main characters loosing a limb is such a thing)

Fucking really ?
If execs even did their jobs for fucking one they should have at least prevented vid related from happening

I'm not webm this shit, I refuse to have it alongside my other stuff

This is one of the last things you could ever accuse them of.

I think there are only a few, and the fact some concept is repeated is not evidence of creative bankruptcy. The anime industry is very big, and you can always add your own twist to something. The magical girl genre started with Sally the Witch and eventually produced Minky Momo, Sailor Moon, Madoka and Matoi the Sacred Slayer (and countless others over the years). They didn't just copy Sally endlessly. But I guess what they should have done is refrain from making anything similar to Sally, because the most important thing in entertainment and storytelling is to be as original and different as possible and never follow in anyone else's footsteps.

Aside from a conspicuous lack of overweight characters, the variants are the same as in real life. Anime characters aren't cartoon characters, and body type is much less important than costume design and hair style.

It does look much better though.

Moeblobs don't exist.

Huh?

This is a goon.

So this is what it looks like when liberals "debate"
Pathetic

Thiw isn't an argument

If you think cartoons are so ugly why are you here?!

This

I'll take even the most nauseatingly ham-fisted SJW rhetoric over "Camp Lazlo" any day.

NO! No more cop-outs! SU is garbage even if you get through the fillers. They have nothing because the writers didn't know where they are going with the story and makes up most of it on the fly. There is really no structure with the story at all. This is just an American version of Bleach (which both cartoons make me wanna drink as well). I agree that cartoons now have gotten worse more because of the talent that they have picked up that believe in the propaganda shit they believe in. They are not understanding on what makes a story great, and just only know how to pander to the Tumblr fan base and sensitive people. But this is no different then what they are doing to video games as well with the approach "Retro Games" and """""""""""""Art"""""""""""""""" Games. But in a sense I don't think they are intentionally trying to lower the standards, they are just shitty at their jobs.

Since when have cartoons been about story?

When cartoons are using story as the engine of the cartoon themselves. They may have not been the most well written stories ever, but if (((Miss Sugar))) and crew are trying to make it like a Japanese cartoon, then make the story make sense. Not be filled with filler that doesn't move the fucking plot.

I mean shows with a storyline seem to be very, very rare, and they're almost all episodic.

That's been somewhat down played in the era of Netflix

What's ATLA?

For some reason, the west seems to have some really weird aversion to continuous plots. Well, not the west, just 'Murika and Canada, to much a lesser degree (there is still Code Lyoko and the likes).

Italians seem to be suckers for somewhat more "stateful" plots. Look at Huntik or W.I.T.C.H.. Most episodes can be enjoyed since they aren't always referencing the past, but almost all episodes seem to try at advancing some overarching plot. In general, Europe isn't very fond of plots in cartoons, but at least they seem to try at them. But for some reason, America has been trying their best to make them as self-contained as possible, maybe because your kids have ADHD or something.

I guess it's muh execs and muh toys, as always.

A rare exception.

Avatar is not a cartoon, is just animation but not a cartoon.

It's considered a cartoon if you're not autist

WEAVTOOS PLEASE LEAVE
Avatar is officially not Holla Forums related and belongs OUT along with anime and live action series

What he likely means is that cartoon means things like Looney Tunes.

Oh hey, if weeb shit automatically makes something anime, how about you never mention Teen Titans, Wakfu or TMNT ever again.

Which is good, TT and TMNT are shit.

Also, Ben10 also kinda adapted the weeb shit style. So no Ben10 threads either.

This is true what he said. The anime animators of the past animated from the base 'golden standard' of real life. New age animators animate and "Want to do it like they see in anime"

This could also be the cause of some of the fall of western cartoons. While old style animators studied life to create the illusion and believable/entertaining distortion of it in a cartoon, new age animators simply want to go off what they see in cartoons and not from real life.

In other words, clones of clones get more corrupted and lower quality every iteration

or here's an idea why doesn't Holla Forums stop moping around and do shit instead of being disenfranchised faggots.

> Comics & Cartoons
>Where cartoons and comics collide
>This board is for topics pertaining to western comics and cartoons
AVATAR APOLOGISTS PLEASE LEAVE

Who said that we are not doing anything about? This is a discussion board.

This is true, I want to write a (partially) sci-fi military script, but since I don't want to copy Halo, I decided to enlist into my country's boot camp,

Animation then:
sakugabooru.com/post/show/17984/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/25427/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/12879/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/3454/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/3383/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/24888/

Animation now:
sakugabooru.com/post/show/26073/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/16157/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/10445/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/24869/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/26222/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/22090/

What went wrong?

Some people use cartoon to mean all American animation, all Western animation, or all animation period. None of them is how the word is supposed to be used.

not sure if sarcasm or not but if its genuine then you're a true artist the world needs but maybe doesn't deserve. Good luck.

I don't know, not after that thing that happened on Holla Forums not quite sure.

Its genuine, the boot camp is a year long and only the Saturdays ( according to the law at peace times) but human rights is incredibly ignored in here so is not going to be easy, but since I can't enter until January I'm going to military cons, especially air force.

I actually waited until next year to enter, since the penalty for not doing it at its proper time is obligatory boot camp instead of a lottery in which you can get selected to just parade at independence day.

I don't know what you're talking about

You could be right. I don't know much anime but I do remember basically what he said and I do know that 0/6 of your older anime examples had cute anime girls and that the car scene and the mecha scene was rad as fuck, the training scenes were cool too. Meanwhile 5/6 of your newer examples had 'cute anime girl' (most of which wearing 'cute school uniform') with 'cute anime girl' hair (much of which was colored blue or red for no reason) doing 'cute anime girl' things and generally being great at being waifus.

Skating dude was cool though. You could've given me some gurren lagann or some other well animated gundam shit but you didn't huh.
Maybe I'm wrong but maybe what you're telling me is the future is just better and better animated "cute anime waifus" then?

Besides, even if I doubt it, maybe I end up liking it, the life of a soldier isn't easy but is a simple life that can only go up. The sad part is that I still perceive it as a tool for my plot.
I wish I could enter the air force but I don't think I got what's needed, literally in a physical way.

I remember looking at some older anime and it actually looked cartoonish. That one user who posted "Animation then" shows some good examples.

I feel like the change is a result of whatever the Japanese equivalent of comic book artists doing cartoons is.

Overdesigned "realistic" characters do not animate well, or at least not well and fast, or well and cheap. What anime needs to do is concentrate more on animation and less on presentation. It's as simple as that.

We were talking about animating based on real life vs. animating based on anime. We were not talking about the frequency of cute girls in 20th century anime vs. 21st century anime. If you want cute girls in 20th century anime, look no further than Miyazaki's own works.

You mean like in real life Japan?

A waifu is a character, any character, that someone is so into he imagines having a relationship with her and so on. It's a completely personal thing, and most people don't have a waifu.

High quality of drawings is more desireable than a high quantity of drawings.

Hey, you're the one getting pretentiously grandiose about your equally jumped-up nationalist views, so you really can't talk. This is what they call the pot calling the kettle black, my friend. Get your head out of your ass like everyone else. Oh wait, you're too busy deluding yourself into looking bigger and wiser than everyone. What's the point? And you're probably going to burst into an angry political rant too, despite the fact that I don't give a shit about politics (even your right-wing ideals), because politics is being shoved down my throat in day-to-day life. Because I'm a normal person that doesn't need anti-psychotic meds. Good luck.

Quality is subjective in art, quantity is imperative in motion.
I don't want my samurai jack with hyper realistic designs, I want action.

There are a lot of ways of doing motion, and motion is not the only concern when making animation.

That doesn't mean a you can measure quality especially if a work is stylized.

Well good for you.

Do you obviously think I wouldn't predict the behaviour of your nutty mind? Think again.

I'll say it simply, you were right about that and I was wrong. Animation has gotten better. That doesn't necessarily mean that anime has gotten better or that Mizaki was wrong when he says the industry is full of otakus.

user I do understand what you mean but simplistic =/= low quality and quality =/= style. You can clearly tell when someone has a mastery over what the're doing even when they're doing something simple. Like using negative space, sometimes less is more.

fuck off

I guess you're free to hide behind "But it's subjective!" and pretend Tales of Zestiria doesn't look better than Samurai Jack, if it helps you sleep at night.

There is a significant difference between moving the goalposts and the conversation moving somewhere else.

I didn't actually say that. I was just deflating Miyazaki's idea that anime in the past was rooted in real life and now it isn't. Shows like Orange and Rakugo are keeping it more real than anything Miyazaki ever directed.

"Otaku" barely means anything.

The problem is you showed two still images.

It does, Jack completely blends with the world.
That other motherfucker looks ugly as shit in that place.

Or perhaps the problem is that in American animation literally any animated work that meets a certain average framerate requirement is regarded as excellent, and every other consideration is meaningless at worst and a bonus at best. The characters may as well be stick figures against a white background, nobody gives a shit as long as there's enough frames.

sakugabooru.com/post/show/24090/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/24921/
sakugabooru.com/post/show/25433/

What are you talking about?

It depends on your idea of what's looking good. Really, it's subjective, and I don't know why the fuck do you conservatards superior and enlightened masters of this place think otherwise. I mean, I am gonna agree I prefer Tales of Zestiria to Samurai Jack's art style, but it doesn't make me any righter. Most conservatards classy gentlemen will argue Zestiria is objectively better because it follows the classical ideas of beauty, which were the only correct ones, but that's a load of bullshit with absolutely no basis in formal logic (which is pretty much the definition of objectivity). For example, if I had to stare at a single painting for the rest of my life, I'd rather pick The Starry Night than Oath of the Horatii, even though the latter is supposed to be more "objectively beautiful" because of it's alignment with the classical idea of beauty. Difference is, The Starry Night has lots of personality, whereas Oath of the Horatii is yet another painting in a race of many artists who wanted to show off their photorealistic technique just to get nobles to commission them their portraits.

Before you start, I fully know Van Gogh is fairly hit and miss, and some of his works, like Bedroom in Arles, are pure trash. Doesn't make The Starry Night any worse.

Within reason. When you're saying this in response to a comparison between Tales of Zestiria and Samurai Jack, you are no longer within reason. You are just in denial.

It's because of this mindset that painting in the West gave way first to modern art and then post-modern art. Something like Barge Haulers on the Volga is now considered just realistic technical wankery that doesn't measure up to real art like filming yourself swimming in homeless people's vomit or whatever the post-modernists are up to these days. Novelty is the most important thing.

This board is a disgrace, it is /mai/ all over again, is the owner dead?

Let me guess, you took your opinion on art and objectivity from a certain specific Praeger University video, right? Didn't your superior debate skills realize he actually said nothing that could be considered objective?

It's not hard to tell modern art is shit, but it's impossible to pinpoint why is it so shitty. Otherwise, if it was so (((objective))), you faggots would have come up with some logical notation demonstration of why is it shit. But you didn't, because your arguments are either based on "muh nature", "muh realism", or "muh teachers told me classicism was good", and thus can no longer be considered objective. Even this fucking video agrees some impressionist paintings were good, and I am fairly sure he is thinking about The Starry Night. Really, at this point you are just being a classicismboo.

I've seen that video, and several others like it, but I didn't need them to tell me what was already obvious.

At this point you're just hiding behind "You can't mathematically prove that Renaissance art was better than shit smeared on a canvas" to justify your anti-art agenda.

I can prove how you are objectively wrong just by pointing out at my previous posts, but can you actually prove I am wrong? :^)

You are a degenerate.

That is better, but then the question is, are those at a low fps or are the artists simply more talented?

I don't understand your question.

Not an argument

And proud Kemosabe, and proud.

You are a degenerate.

Not an argument.

Yes it is you degenerate.

I'm done wasting my time on your horseshit.

It is not, and I challenge you to logically prove otherwise.

Oh.

My point is, if the problem is too much focus on framerate, was that an example of low framerate animation that looks good or was it high framerate animation that looks good?

They were just examples of what the show looks like in motion.

But is it an example of low framerate animation?

Talk about polishing a turd

No.

Then I could just say that the quality of the animation comes from the high framerate anyway.
But more importantly, even if you take the detail out of each image the animation would still be satisfying to watch, because it is plain good animation. If you did the same thing with stick figures and it would still look good, AND you would be able to see it more often.

Nothing is free.

You couldn't. Framerate does not determine animation quality.

Animation is a series of still images played back in rapid succession to create the illusion of movement. The animation does not exist separately from the images. The images are the animation. The more detailed and better drawn the drawings are the better the animation is going to look (with everything else being equal).

Stick figures are also not an option when you want things to look real and to immerse the viewer in the world and the drama of the characters.

under this definition I dont think tartovsky makes cartoons, samurai jack, powerpuff girls, and probably dexters lab all have too much weebshit in them.
king of the hill is gone unfortunatly, hueng soon park makes beautiful anime though, maybe he adapted the style from a korean manwa?
star vs the forces of evil is typical weebshit magical girl, sometimes with tentacles, so thats gone.
oban star racers is an anime, thats gone.
edd ed and eddy is (im told) a perfect match for a particular season of jojo, we dont need weebshit here no thanks
and of course the DCAU needs to go, superman and justice league are too much like a shonen
the loud house general needs to go too, I dont know why the BO tolerates a disgusting incest babyfuck harem anime having generals ON MY CO!
ruby gloom is just a moeblob anime
MLAATR is also just a cute girl doing cute things anime, not to mention an astro boy ripoff
like a good half of my favorite disney movies are anime, oh well I guess we cant discuss them here
we can eliminate any cartoon with cute girls or offensive jokes because those are both anime things
no star wars cartoons that may have slipped through the cracks of any above criteria because space samurai
if power rangers wasnt disqaulified by live action it can be for giant monsters and giant robots and general weebshit.
super robot monkey team hyper force go is gone if anyone else besides me watched that.

are there even any cartoons left now?

See and stop freaking out over nothing.

Who's surprised? Not me.

I can smell the impotent leftist rage wafting off your post
You're not fooling anyone goon.

Keep dreaming, cartoons are not moe. This time i have to be on the weeb side, cartoons aren't made to be moe or "sexy"

I think a girl is cute because of her personality. Personally I like predominantly sweet girls with a snarky (smart kind) streak.

Jesus fucking christ, what is going on in this thread?

Well moe, is 50% appearance and 50% tropes

TVTropes lists almost anything you can imagine as a trope.

See, this is a good post to sage.

BTW. why are you saging?
And how does your comment relates to my preference in girls?
I would say is sad that in the modern world "sweet" is merged with shy in the pop culture. or inoffensive/vulnerable, so girls aren't allowed to be sweet.

Im not going to lie, i kinda laughed

It doesn't matter how nice you can draw each frame, if they are tied together like a janky slideshow it is not good animation. With a higher framerate more detail can go into the motions that occur over the course of a second. How good the illusion of movement is determines the quality of animation, not what is implied to move.

If you judge animation by still images, you aren't even judging animation. It's how they connect that is important.

As I clearly stated:

There are diminishing returns, and the more frames you want to draw the more you have to simplify them.

No, that doesn't determine it either. You can create illusion of movement with stick figures but they are still just stick figures.

Who was judging animation by still images?

That's not the point, the illusion of movement is what defines the quality of the animation. What is moving defines the quality of the draftsmanship, not the animation.

The quality of the entire show can come from a mixture of both, but the quality of the animation alone can come only from the detail of the movements themselves. Something can be poorly drawn but well animated and vice versa.

With limited resources it becomes a tradeoff based around time and money. Do you want more detail in each frame or in their animation? Even someone who is good at both needs to make the decision based on how much effort he intends to put into the endeavor.

As just explained: no.

The more complex your design is the more difficult and time-consuming it is to animate, and there's no reason to think of draftsmanship and animation as two separate things.

And it will probably look poor as a result.

It seems like you're just trying to find a way of having lousy animation but still be able to call it good animation through mental gymnastics.

Well yeah, but I was talking about the looks part. Even if a cartoon girl was shy, cute and vulnerable she still wont be moe because would fail in the looks apartment.

Of course there is. You wouldn't judge a still image next to a piece of animation.
You wouldn't say the still image is a better piece of animation because its better drawn.

These are two different skills, and being a good draftsman does not mean you understand how to animate something well, or the other way around. Case in point: Claymation is a kind of animation that doesn't use draftsmanship at all.

It seems to me you would imply it is possible for a slideshow of unrelated images to be considered good animation, so long as each image is well drawn.

The animator makes drawings that add up to animation. The drawings and the animation aren't separate tasks or otherwise separate from each other. The drawings are the animation, and the animator draws them.

Except no such thing was implied anywhere.

The frames are not the animation, how each frame relates to the others is the animation. Writing is not judged on calligraphy, the composition of a song is not judged on how well it is played, animation is not judged on the quality of the draftsmanship.

Like I said, you don't even need to draw to create an animation. It is a skill separate from drawing.

As a writefag I concur.
Sometimes when I write I get so involved watching the scenes in my mind.
Writing is really more about not having stalling moments were nothing is really happening, no one acting out of character, and nothing looking out of place in the sense that fits the spirit of the rest of the work or at least that the change of pacing
That's what I consider equivalent to animation.

Draftmanship is something more compared not to style, but rather setting or the lore, if its complex, the background of the characters.

Things that are really nice to have but aren't needed to immediately enjoy a plot, they'll become necessary if you want to go deeper into it but even then it just a question if the style/type/nature/feel of the work really needs it.

It becomes animation when the images are played back in sequence at the appropriate speed. The animation is just a series of separate still images.

Nobody said it was.

The animator draws images. The animation consists of images drawn by the animator. Animators don't just "animate," they draw images.

Like for example the aforementioned Samurai Jack, you wouldn't call its art "beautiful draftmanship but having it would be against style and feel because it's supposed to imitate old Japanese style which can look surprisingly tridimentional despite the simplicity.

Same stuff can be said from Ed, Edd & Eddy, with its spaztic outlines shows the nature of the show pretty well, as erratic and exaggerated.

And that's when animation comes into play, if you've seen any SJ fight scenes you'll notice how fluid the whole thing is without any interruption on movement.

Two ways to animate without even picking up a pencil are via claymation or through 3d modeling.

Those anime scenes earlier in the thread would still be good animation even if done by stick figures.
It just wouldn't be good draftsmanship. The art of animation is how it fits together, not by what acts it out.

I would almost compare animation to writing a play and acting it out. They just happen to be done by the same person (and even that is not always the case), but they are different things.

Good animation + Good draftsmanship can make a better overall show, but to make a good animation is its own thing.

Having a high framerate doesn't mean it's well animated. Even if we put aside the crude drawings, youtube.com/watch?v=7__8uGaJFQI just is not well animated. Everything about it is off.

Which is irrelevant to what we're talking about.

No they wouldn't be.

The animator and the person who draws the images are the same person. They are the same thing. The animation consists of a series of still images drawn by the animator. That's the animation. How are you not getting this?

It's irrelevant to what you consider animation, but only because what you consider animation is not animation.

How then are these things not animations? If they are animations that means that animation is not the same thing as draftsmanship. That's not irrelevant at all.

We are talking about hand-drawn animation, not claymation or 3D animation.

There is no difference, all three are animation.

wow so its kinda like the situation with nerds in america.

There are huge differences between them. Are you stupid or do you have a mental illness?

But what makes them similar is called animation.

This thread proves that Holla Forums should be purged.

Then a wrench must be the same thing as a saw. Since they are both called tools.

No. What they all share is they are all animated.
Animation therefore, is a skill apart from draftsmanship.

You use this same skill in all three applications.

Again: we are talking about hand-drawn animation. Not claymation, not 3D animation, not any other kind of animation. Different forms of animation don't all even share the same skillsets.

You are utterly clueless.

You could do all of those anime scenes you posted earlier with Wallace and Gromit characters and it would be
the same animation.

The reason cartoons have gotten worse, as some people say, is because people are not good animators. It's not because they have gotten worse at draftsmanship, they may have even gotten better. But focusing on the draftsmanship would be missing the point. If they don't know how to animate it together in a compelling way, it will always look bad no matter how well each frame is drawn.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Well no shit.

If animation is not separated from draftsmanship people will make the mistake of assuming an animation can be made better by improving the detail of the images. That would be entirely missing the point if someone tells your that your animation is bad.

But animation can be made made better by improving the detail. Animation is a series of images, and not whatever magical thing you think it is. We've been over this many times now.

It's not just the images, it's a plan and how you put it all together.

film is already done since March 2016, but they're trying to find a distributor for their film

muahh the french

Thank you, Sherlock.

you have no idea what an SJW even is, do you?

An umbrella term for everything Holla Forums doesn't like?

>that smug "I also hope that no-one closes off the Internet"
Yeah, I guess even China hasn't actually "closed off" the internet. Entirely.

What are the solutions to fix the animation industry?

Depends on what you are trying to fix.

Pay Japs to make anime based on sci-fi and fantasy books of the past, as well on less-known folklore and mythology.

Are there any good modern cartoons anymore?

How's that going to do anything for the US industry?

Does toddler cartoons count? They are the only good cartoons today.