MONTHLY POLL: MARXISM OR ANARCHISM

You've gotta ask for the merits of people's beliefs, elsewise the more general category wins.

In this case, "Marxism" covers everything from fucking DemSoc to Maoism.

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I'm treating your political ideologies like they're boring as fuck and not at all indicative of anything but stagnation.

so "green vs red" in pic related would be better?

sure thing mr anarcho-christian national democratic-zionist islamo-authoritarian i'm so sorry your """"""interesting""""""" specific obscure special snowflake ideology wasnt included. please proceed to rub candy on your anus because your butt is hurt.

You're back!

Where were you?

The fact that you cannot entertain more than a contradiction is just the mark of an undialectical mind. That for which we find words is something already dead in our hearts. There is always a kind of contempt in the act of speaking. In-itself, all ideology is neutral, or should be; but man animates ideas, projects his flames and flaws into them; impure, transformed into beliefs, ideas take their place in time, take shape as events: the trajectory is complete, from logic to epilepsy…
Anyone who speaks in the name of others is always an impostor.

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are you also atheist and vegan?
jesus christ just make your own poll with your own choices tbh

Green vs red would be better to judge the politics of the board, but that pic is retarded.

I didn't know I was sharing with a bunch of lame loser Marxists.

Who am I kidding? Despite our disagreements, we're all still joyful friends!.. right?

And Marxism is slightly in the lead, no surprise here.

the other problem, though, is that many anarchists (anarcho-communists) take so much from Marx that they could easily be considered "Marxist", it is largely just a matter of what word they choose to describe themselves.

But I'm not sure what the ratio of pseudo-Marxists to Marxists that call themselves "anarchists" to Marxists who self-identify as such is.

How about neither?

How about suicide?

Yes surprise, the more broad category is slightly in the lead.

My thought is strongly influenced by Marxism and Materialism, but the more I read, the more I start to follow, interestingly, Marx's changes in thought, from the energetic utopian of his youth to his growing pragmatism as he saw that capitalism was a less rigid system than he imagined.

tl;dr bernstein was right

Yui, are you right-wing?

Dont talk to them unless you want to end up as reactionary.

Of course not! But saying that Marxism and anarchism are the only types of ways to be a socialist is pretty silly and dogmatic.

Right-wing collective suicide soon, comrade!

How cute.

He also never moved away from the position that said system was inherently contradictory and doomed to death.

I think it's legit hilarious that you believe this after the entire grotesque failure of his ideas at the turn of the millennia (never mind their slow rot since the moment they stepped into office, beginning at the very moment they choose to support imperialist wars, and then use proto-fascists to slaughter actual socialists).

Social democracy is dead, the very basis for it's existence is no longer possible - as the state has transformed from a governor of capitalism to another cog in the maintenance of global Empire. jacobinmag.com/2016/02/wolfgang-streeck-europe-eurozone-austerity-neoliberalism-social-democracy/

it's like Holla Forums being a coalition of lolberts and nazis.

we're just like that. commies and annies.

yui
why are you so cute comrade :3

I just try to passive-agressively deny my love for u comrade. It is not like I would love u, baka! We will still be comrades in revolution K?

k

Based post.

This user is totally right. Capitalism has been trying to ditch social democracy since the 80s.

It's because I never skip leg day.

Of course we'll still be comrades!

Social democracy's position in the late 60s to early 70s with the revival of class struggle in that time period has really been forgotten by history–a 1974 poll of American businessmen showed that a majority of them thought that there would be "some sort of socialism" within a decade. At the very least, they were spooked enough to launch a counteroffensive starting in the mid to late 1970s which is only starting to see a pushback. Maybe I'm colored as a political science major, but even in this era of globalization (one which, again, is seeing pushback, albeit from the right), the importance of the state should not be dismissed so easily even if it obviously cannot be relied on alone–the right certainly doesn't dismiss it, based on the level of reaction to even a self-described "democratic socialist" with a New Deal liberal platform

I'm also motivated by my view of liberal democracy and its contradictory nature–by having fewer restrictions and greater public input (albeit, I fully understand, to a limited extent), as well as its decentralized nature, its flaws are harder to expose–the strongest ideology is that which appears invisible. and by allowing the left to exist, the left's message ironically falls on deaf ears (there are a lot of other reasons for that). And while I hate to sound like a third-worldist, there's also the simple fact that, not only due to the (mixed in accuracy, as I've already said) greater personal freedoms in liberalism and with living standards being where they are even after 40 years of neoliberalism grinding down unions and the welfare state, violent revolution, especially on a fucking global scale, is Day of the Rope-tier LARPing in the industrialized world, and not even an accurate way of describing the transition from pastorialism to mercantilism to capitalism (there was obviously plenty of violence, but ascribing it all to revolutions is a radical oversimplification). The failures of "evolutionary socialism" in the late 20th century deserve plenty of analysis and scrutiny and I'm not going to provide any defense of Francois Hollande or Tony Blair, but at least in the liberal industrialized world represent a more viable path forward over the next few decades and beyond than anything else. I'm not even going into the much grander failures of revolutionary socialism in the 20th century (even though, to again clarify, I'm not necessarily against revolution–I merely don't see it).

Recommended reading:

jacobinmag.com/2016/04/erik-olin-wright-real-utopias-capitalism-socialism/

also your waifu is shit

How about you pick a side and stop being a special namefagging snowflake???

It's ok. Forming your self theory can be fun and entertaining

Oh, the Marxists have finally found a way to stop the anarchists from voting to reinforce the spectacle of Holla Forums as a Marxists board.

I'm not going to run Google's code in my browser, sorry.

Well. It's only common for anarkids to not participate in elections and then complain about the "government"…

Are you suggesting that voting in a liberal democracy does anything?

Does not voting do anything?

Playing Stellaris and organized an IRL May Day Rally that had 3 people, right next to the other one with lots of SJWs and "communists".

Also, I had to deal with Microsoft's forced Windows 10 upgrade, which bricked my computer for 5 days straight.

Holla Forums confirmed for turning into the tankie shithole we all know it's turning into.

I accomplish more staying at home fapping or watching anime or playing vidya than I would voting smh

Marxist != tankie

*Marxist shithole

Install Gentoo

Marx proved himself a tankie when he pushed Bakunin out tbh

These polls have never nor will ever prove beneficial to the community here on Holla Forums. They only serve to inflame hostilities between members based on LOOSE ideological labels.

At the very least, if you are going to make a poll for ideology, there has to be more middle ground positions than just "anarchism/marxism." Judging by polls in the past, there are more libertarian Marxists than authoritarian Marxists, many of the former having more in common with anarchism than with the authoritarian Marxism. By making it only "anarchism/marxism," you force a lot of these people to arbitrarily decide "what do I want to call myself" rather than "what do I stand for," even when that label clumps them together with groups that they share virtually nothing in common with. If you must insist on using polls based on ideological labels, then you should AT LEAST include the following:

Low turnout makes people question the legitimacy of the result.

As usual anarcho-cat poster is right.

It's almost as retarded to lump everyone into "Marxist"/"Anarchist" as it is to lump everyone into being a "leftist". I feel like the vast majority of "anarchists" on here are actually libertarian Marxists who only consider themselves anarchists because Marxism is so predominately associated with Leninism and Marxist-Leninism, for example.

That being said I'm not opposed to inflaming hostilities between anarchists and Marxists.

You don't even address the critique, you backtrack to the 60s and 70s, the high-point of the welfare state, to find proof your idea works.

Sure, ignoring the fact that all the social democrats grew into apparatchiks of capitalism, a social democratic transition might have theoretically been possible back then (and again, you're not even addressing the fact that capitalism is a mayfly, it's going to go away by this generation for sure).

However, as I said, the state has nowhere near enough power to do that in a globalized world - they are the weaker partner in the capital-state coalition. Their only purpose is to implement austerity to keep capital accumulation going another year, while the central banks conjure up loans to hide the tendency of profit to fall. The "liberal industrialized world" is only alive because we keep telling ourselves it is, but that façade is rapidly collapsing.

It has nothing to do with Holla Forums's day of the gulag masturbatory fantasies, the point is that everything the welfare/warfare state was built on is gone.

Social Democracy is more disarmed to handle the 21st century than you're waifu.

You gained 10 minutes in your life.
Grats.

BEST JOKE EVER!

oh wow once again it's a split of a few percent

who could have seen this coming

We should just have a poll for >tankie scum and everyone else.

this
I voted for anarchism for this reason.

THE ONLY POLL WE NEED

strawpoll.me/10278259
strawpoll.me/10278259
strawpoll.me/10278259

kek

Yui pls go debunk some speculative realists or something

Why do you keep making assumptions about me? This shows more about your polemic than it does my actual views.
Haha, as if I care about peoples' opinions more than I care about criticizing them.
You do realise that we're on a chan right, and perceived consensus about ideology is bound to be fraught with persecution.

wew lad

Absolutely disgusting

Fuck, dem anarkids cheated

You realize the results from previous polls were most likely rigged by marxists right? This is the first poll with captcha after all.

Poll was pretty even until it overwhelmingly shifted anarchist. Either way these polls are stupid and pointless.

Workers actions, engaging in class struggle, collectively develop the socialist ideology, which cannot be divorced from practice.
None of this can be divorced from the communist program (whether one thinks the Anarchist or Marxist tradition better represents this is more or less the question being asked).

But an ideology that repudiates the crystallization of past struggles in Marxist or Anarchist theory isn't being "non-dogmatic" it is being at best Utopian, and at worst, depriving the current struggle from developing from its past.

I don't deny the possibility of a qualitative jump during the height of class struggle, with a new ideology developing that looks different from both traditional Marxism and Anarchism, but this hypothetical new ideology isn't one that can be discovered or thought up by theorists divorced from the struggle (which we all are, as we are in a period of disturbingly low open class struggle).

For those reasons, I don't see what other options are available besides the Anarchist and Marxists traditions (distinct, of course, from the dominant ideologies which identify as them, but the particular crystallizations of the actual historical movement of communism which has bred those ideologies).

There's syndicalism and revolutionary republicanism.

7/14, Sans Culottes on the Ground, Class War Now, Guillotine the Porkies

Cantonalism shall be the torch that will lead the working class to liberty!

I'm a marxist who sees lots of value in anarchist theory and praxis. I only fit in one slightly more than the other.

pls stat leave

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Yes, I get the sense that non-burgers are more likely to lean anarchist.

Could you elaborate? Aside from Marx's economic analyses, as a general matter Ancoms disregard most of what Marx said.

fucking burgers reeeeeeee

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Man, Marxists got cucked in the poll where you can't cheat.

All the Anarchists just voted twice; once on their iphone and another on their ipad.

Marxist failed hard the 20th century. Its time for anarchism.

gomrade don't be salty

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how exactly anarchism succeeded in the 20th century?

dont even answer

what's a proxy?