So, why do communists oppose the state?

So, why do communists oppose the state?

except for tankies of course

Extending this line of questioning, why do Marxist consider the state neccessary before communism can be achieved? The answer to this is evident to anyone who reads Marx, but what of anarchism?

That is - why do both Marxists and anarchists oppose the state, yet Marxists find that a transitory state phase is the best way to achieve communism.

You could describe Marxism as primarily fighting capitalism and anarchism as primarily fighting the state.

And speaking of left anarchism specifically, what paralleles do anarchists draw between the exsistence of the state and the perpetuation of communism? A common critique of Marxism by anarchists usually involves the fact that many Marxist revolutions have fallen to state capitalism, so I would like to hear the theory side of this.

You answered your own questions tbh.

How so? I answered

but I have more questions

We don't, only anarchists do. That's why they're anarchists instead of communists, they see the state as the source of all evil rather than capitalism.

Anarchism describes their libertarian position. Anarchists can be communists, collectivists, etc. And I don't think so. I see the state as a class and where there is power, there is a door open for exploitation.

I was under the impression that communism advocated a stateless society

states are good dude

All anarchists are left-wing. The ones your trying to differentiate from are just anti-state capitalists.

I would say at least 90% of anarchist literature is focused on critiquing capitalism and private property. We point out the negative effects of having society being run laterally, sure, but to say that's our primary goal is to fight the State or that we see it as the source of all evil is absolute bullocks.

Agreed comrade.

What do you think of

We do oppose the state, just not right now.

All anarchists, even the non-communists, oppose both the state and capitalism. As was said, some communists are anarchists. In the end though, even the statist communists and anarchists want the same thing which would be a stateless, classless society. But IN PAPER. I think the transitory period advocated by the statist communists is the wrong approach though.

Ancaps are anarchist. They're just idiots.

No they aren't. From the beginning, anarchism was anti-state and anti-capitalism. Anarchism is a form of libertarianism which opposes hierarchical institutions and relations of power in all its form which include the state and the private sector (bosses in the workplace).

From the beginning, yes. But an anarchist is simply one who opposes the state. Ancaps are idiot anarchists, just as tankies are idiot communists.

No. Anarchism never just meant being anti-state. It was directed towards capitalism as much as the state. You know the phrase, "No Gods, No master"? Just because these people come in and bastardize the meaning behind a term, doesn't mean anything. Just like they it to libertarianism and socialism. You know too many people, socialism just means big govt. and stricter market regulations along with free public services, right? So I guess Obama and socdems are all socialists then. No. This is just a perversion of leftist terms and the undermining of genuine movements.

Interesting. How do anarchists connect the problem of the state with capitalism?

Its a centralisation of force that opposed its authority on me restricting me of using my authority to manage my own affairs. Anarchists desire to have emancipation and to choose to cooperate among others in their own way without any collective force (Army/Police) telling them what they should do while threating to kipnap them and take them hostage (Arrest and lock up in jail).
Key word, Emancipation.

The state exists to uphold the capitalist hierarchy, of course. The state IS bourgie class consciousness.

*Opposes
Fucking english.

That state is an extension of the will of the private sector. That is why it exists. To protect their private property and keep everybody in check. Anarchists oppose both they're both power structures that restrict our freedom.

As I said before, saying left-libertarian or left-anarchist is as redundant as to say mammal lion. Here's a pic of Rothbard which of course, is the capitalist who took the term anarchist and libertarian from the left where he admits it.

For capitalism to function you need private property to exist, private property is an idea that people are ALLOWED (by the state) to start a business (function in the economy) wich will be protected against collectivisation or theft by other indivuduals. private property is an INSTITUTION ensuring protection of INDIVIDUAL Property.

Without the state private property is but only an idea (Without force to realise itself in sensual world) and people would be free to collectivise or steal from private property without punishment of any central force.


This, the state its purpose is to be the power structure to enforce the idea of private property.

What anime?

I think it's supposed to be spice and wolf.

Oops sorry. I thought you were talking to the other person

No idea, i dont watch Anime.

Why not?

Voice acting mostly is ear bleeding, the anime industry in general produces badly animated messes. There is to mutch fan service and ridiculous plots. I like anime but only a select bunch.

Because the states function is to reproduce the separation of the material community, a product of classes, and is specifically an apparatus of power of one class.

The workers create their own "state", but it is a state only in the sense that it is a tool for working class power, but it doesn't do anything to reproduce class divisions, the more it is successful, the less of a political function it has, and the less it is organized to facilitate political functions. It is a state, which is quite opposite the traditional state, which is for preserving the status quo.

"All the palaver about the state ought to be dropped, especially after the Commune, which had ceased to be a state in the true sense of the term. The people’s state has been flung in our teeth ad nauseam by the anarchists, although Marx’s anti-Proudhon piece and after it the Communist Manifesto declare outright that, with the introduction of the socialist order of society, the state will dissolve of itself and disappear."
Engels then goes on to even suggest that the term "state" be dropped when referring to the proletariats' dictatorship.
I respectfully disagree with him, but you get the point. I merely keep the word "state" to be consistent with definitions, but this is hard in a dialectical framework, as everything is transitory and changing.

In terms of what Anarchists think of when they hear the word "state", that is not what (actual) Marxists are talking about when discussing the DotP.

It isn't that we are positing a specific strategy along the lines of "use the state". We are explaining that any organization that the proletariat uses to free itself is, by definition, an apparatus for it to exert class power. The word for that apparatus is "state", regardless of if it is used by the vast majority simply to overthrow the rule of the bourgeois minority.

An oversimplified, but perhaps still useful example might be thus: When saying that the state "withers away", we mean that, as the bourgeoisie are defeated and completely expropriated, we have less use for a militia attached to whatever we are using to organize the economy, eventually there is no longer such a thing as "class", and there is no more threat to guard against, the political aspects of the organization disappear, and the only thing left is the economic organization (which has radically changed during the process as well, as the working class gets more of an opportunity to reorganize society, destroy the alienating process of labor known as "work", etc.).

But it has cute girls that distract you from this malignantly useless life.

...

Faggot detected

See beyond your Ideology. (Or don't watch shit).

Anyway on on subject,
A state is needed, as large scale anarchism is imposible in current society. Letting it wither away without a nomenclature holding onto it and not letting progress occure. (the nomenclature is like the overseer in Fallout 1. Needs to be in the position of power, cause it cannot offer anything else to society. ((also, like Rebel))).

I don't get what you guys mean by calling Rebel a nomenclature. What does that mean in your own words?

If i want to get my dick triggerd with som echi scenes i prever to go to porn sites made for it instead of entertainment that stands loose from lewdness. I want some edgy dark depressing shit not le awakward teens with sexual tensions shit show mass produced product.

Suggest some good shit patrician.

Cause he needs to be the intelectual in order to have any functionality.
it's a joke


Ok.
Planetes is pure Left.
Gakkou Gurashi is pure depression
Parasyte (the mango is better).
And highschool of the dead is critic of ideology

Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun

What in the cuck

Okay, so apparently people don't know their own political stances… at all. Communist's AND Anarchists oppose the state. The only difference between a Communist and and Anarchist is that a Communist advocates for a transitory socialist state, for to be eventually turned into "Full Communism" or, Anarchy. Communists generally believe that people cannot just jump straight into Full Communism, their argument being that we wouldn't know how to handle ourselves.

Anarchists believe that the idea of a socialist transitory state is useless, and bad in general. They wish to go from Capitalism to "Full Communism" or Anarchy, skipping the middle step.

As to why Communists oppose the state, this is the same reason for Anarchists. It's general basic theory. The state breeds corruption and forces you to always be subservient to one or another.

For your last question, the reason why I personally, as an anarchist oppose the transitory state is I see it to be completely useless and honestly just kind of… stupid. I feel that humans do not need to be "conditioned" to work together, or need a big daddy to tell us how we should be working and distributing our labor. In a capitalist society, we have worked just fine without government intervention, and in fact, have gotten more done in the past +150 yrs than in the past 2000. Just my two cents.

Hopefully this answers a couple of your questions. Essentially Communists believe that people need a guiding hand before being let loose.

What the hell? The Proletarian State's role is to violently suppress the bourgeoisie, not to "guide" anyone.

It's not inherently violent tho.

loltankies

Yes it is, by definition, like any other state. If their is no need for violence, there is no need for a state.

They are litterally ennemies. Communists DO oppose the bourgeois states… with proletarian state.

I never said otherwise. Marxists and anarchists want the same thing, they just take different approaches; one more pragmatic but risky, the other more dogmatic but reassured.

The those Marxists are totally dogmatic!! Don't listen to them anybody! ;)

Eh, in the modern era of polluted and controlled discourse, I think we could use some hardline reds that won't get suckered into liberal BS.

Yep!