When will you guys realize that although Bernie is far from a true communist he's our best chance to move foward...

I meant to reply to the other guy. My b.

What really bothers me is that he knows better. How could someone who was a staunch socialist help liberals appropriate the left's terms? I get that he went reformist but don't aid the fucking enemy.

Agreed. Liberals have always co-opted our terms. Libertarianism, anarchism and now socialism. He's watering down socialism for the pretty-face capitalists.

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Although I think Leninism is shit, I've always regarded Lenin as serious and intelligent. Those quote applies to all the sellouts.

Let's dispel with this notion.

A politician is described by their actions and what they openly advocate. He isn't a communist. in any way. He's conforming to the political establishment. The real Bernie person may be a communist, but that's irrelevant.

Sanders is going nowhere. He's a great guy, and I believe he does have real socialist convictions, but his mostly young voter base is hilariously misinformed about actual leftist beliefs.

Your average Bernie supporter mostly wants expanded public services, tax-funded education and healthcare, and essentially a return of a strong welfare state, plus idpol freedoms and more environmentalism bullshit.

They want, essentially, the life their parents had, but with more recycling and gay sex. The vast majority of Americans do NOT understand leftist thought, would not be able to articulate coherent socialist positions, and would ultimately react violently against any movement that threatened the economic complexity and diversity built by neoliberal capitalism.

Right'o

Notice how many hard-line Sanders supporters are now gently easing us into Hillary? The Sanders campaign is becoming the Hillary campaign. ABORT!

No?

Ameriga is fugged :DDDDDDDD

you clearly haven't been around the leaders of the various Bernie campaigns in different states

The message from local Bernie campaign leaders and the Democratic Party (of which Bernie is a member of now) right now is basically:

"support Hillary or you are a baby, support the Democratic Party now and forever, think about Trump, we must control ourselves if we are stepped on by Clinton delegates etc"

the worst, and if you don't see that coming from Bernie, you are seriously deluded

coming from Bernie after the convention I mean

He's shit and everyone supporting him is retarded.

this.
aside from economics and fiscal policies (which he obviously cant do anything about) his policies are fucking jokes.

i know he cant really do anything about a lot of those issues mentioned and he has to pander to the liberal masses. but tbh his only purpose is to be an inspiration rather than an actual solution. him being this popular is good enough. it's up to us to change anything

Bernie is a step towards welfare capitalism not socialism

I'm a delegate to my state convention and I would venture to guess that maybe 2 people among the 35-40 that go to our regular meetings to prepare for our convention aren't Bernieorbusters. The people in my company are extremely resentful over this party unity browbeating.

Also I was around a number of leaders from the Bernie campaign, back when I was out organizing canvassing before out caucus. They never talked about this unity crap. We even had a couple conversations about what we would do if Sanders didn't get the nomination, and voting for Hillary wasn't on the table.

So don't tell me what I haven't experienced, you're full of shit.

You are in an unusual situation. All the state and national delegates are hardcore Dems who previously supported Clinton and will support Clinton.

Half of the people I talk to in "bernie or bust" are open to Hillary if she starts talking like Bernie. They won't say that immediately, but that's how they think. Bernie himself *will* campaign for Hillary, and most of his lemmings will follow no matter what happens. I actually don't give a shit who people vote for, but we keep trying to make the bad boyfriend (Hillary) good and somehow dems still think we can change the capitalists they nominate after Obama ass raped the country.

News flash, state delegates won't matter when the national delegates start cheering and tearing up for Hillary at the convention. At the very least you need to tell your national delegates like I have to be prepared to break rules so that they aren't silenced. That can mean many things.

You want the convention to look like '68 or '08? From the national delegates I know it's shaping up to be '08 with maybe a few "boos" here and there. Revolution my ass.

You fail to remember the slogal "party unity my ass from Clinton delegates in '08" Yeah they were going to protest the whole thing, they set up a PAC, they weren't going to settle for hillary see here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_United_Means_Action

And guess what happened, all those "party unity my ass" Clinton delegates lined up behind Obama when Clinton conceded (don't lie to yourself that Bernie won't concede) and clapped and cheered like madman for Obama at the national convention.

youtube.com/watch?v=xngbl3HQs-Y

*corrected
You fail to remember the slogan "party unity my ass", from Clinton delegates in '08. Yeah they were going to protest the whole thing, they set up a PAC, they weren't going to settle for Obama

lol militarism

The worst response I have dealt with is hearing a libertarian insist that Bernie Sanders is the only candidate that is politically close to Hitler.

Libertarians in America aren't real libertarians.

They're yokels who don't want any laws and browse infowars all day

The Bernie campaign has decreased people's support for HRC, since it's shown liberals what an old fucking witch she really is.

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And the 2008 election had a bunch of Hillary people furious at Barack people

None of your lovely rallying for an old career-politician is going to change the fact that he will endorse Hillary (again) and campaign hard for her. If you don't want to abort the Sanders personality cult now, I assume you will after the convention then? Or maybe you will follow him and support Hillary.

The point was never for him to win.

Is he pregnant ?

keep pushing, bernie

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Historically it has lead to fascism you fucking retard. It happened in Germany in the 30's, and it's happening now in Europe.

Bernie's a cool guy but even if he had a chance he would at best be a band-aid.

dude, just wait for stalin…

Was Obama a pathological liar who constantly insulted and belittled Hillary supporters though? I think it's a little different this time.

This. It's fucking horrifying I linked Lenin to a liberal telling me to 'fight for Hillary' now because Sanders can't win.

It'll be Trump 2016, and maybe he'll get assassinated or something.

This, shitty economic determinism always leads to fascism. We should make a new law for it in materialism.

keep pushing, bernie

This is the shit that my local grassroots Dem Bernie supporters are telling everyone. The vice-chair of DSA's open letter to Bernie supporters.

"All of which is to say that if the Sanders Revolution is ever to come to fruition, the Bernie Brigades will have to vote for and work for Hillary Clinton’s election in the fall."
[…]
"I write this as a strong Sanders supporter (albeit one who never thought he could win the nomination), as a lifelong democratic socialist"

"But now, what is arguably the most successful left campaign in the nation’s history stands in danger of being undone by an infantile fraction of its own supporters. The threats of violence, the shouting down of such lifelong liberals as Barbara Boxer, and the growing desire of some in the campaign, both on its periphery and at its core, to walk away from the real prospect of building left power by refusing to work with allies and potential allies in the Democratic Party"

"Over the past 48 hours, the Bernie Sanders campaign has all but eclipsed its own message."

Yeah it's different in that there might be a few boos, chants, and walk outs at the national convention where Bernie will line up behind Hillary and begin his campaign for her that he swore he'd do. Wow. What a revolution.

For him not to campaign for her would be breaking a 30 year tradition of his of supporting at the very least Dem nominees. You can look at vids of Sanders in the 80s all you want, but after 1991 he became increasingly only nominally independent. Dennis Kucinich is more fucking left wing than he is.

Is it possible for some abrasive national delegates to slip through the cracks in a few really pro-Bernie states? Yeah and they could cause a ruckus at the convention if Bernie allows them to, but they have to ignore any message for Sanders or his surrogates to calm down, which might be impossible for them given how wrapped up they are in Sanders as a person at this point.

prospect.org/article/how-bros-are-undermining-bernie

How was Sanders going to lead to an expansion of the social-democratic welfare state again? The next president is guaranteed to have to work with a Republican House and possibly a Republican Senate as well. Perhaps he would just settle for making anime real?

You're failing to see that any revolution in pragmatic, political terms will occur within the terms and desires articulated by a mass of people with no distinct conception of socialist or communism. The revolution will not be people proclaiming the need for the abolishing of the law of value but rather the mass, political articulation of needs that capital can no longer reconfigure itself to meet. These demands of redistribution are revolutionary when they are impossible demands for capital.

Neoliberalism is not a subjective policy but is in its essence the political inscription of an objective state of capital. States withdrew from social projects because capital would no longer allow that particular form of defusing class antagonism.